BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size

Subject: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Nick
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:45 AM

For some time I have been pondering how much the physical size and shape of an employer influences their choice of staff and would be interested in feedback from people around this country (UK) and also in other parts of the world.

I first became aware of this in a previous employment where I used to travel to various locations and meet with the staff there. Often there was diversity in age or gender but often a high correlation between the general body shape of the person doing the employing and the people they employed.

I know this is very simplistic and there may be many many other factors involved but I can't help but notice it where I work at the moment...

There are five departments broadly where I work split thus: accounts, support, web design, marketing, sales.

* Accounts has a short round woman running it and the staff increasingly mirror that shape as the current manager replaces natural wastage and employs her own staff
* Sales are run by a slim active man with a shaved head and that describes most of the sales (even down to three of them having shaved heads)
* Web design has a marathon runner as head and are (surprise) thin and willowy
etc etc

Now the one area that is slightly more diverse is support. As it is reasonably specialist it may attract less candidates for employment and so necessity overrules the choice or it may be something else (eg one thought is that some of the staff have an uncanny resemblance shape-wise to the manager's wife). Within accounts there is probably more choice of staff so there is more chance of being able to apply the shape criterion.

Now it could be that most accounts people are a certain shape and most web designers are a different sort of shape. It could be that the activities of people outside of work affects their physical shape and somehow reflects their choice of occupation.

My sense that shape may be in many cases the overriding factor though was strengthened by a recent visit to another branch of our company where the accounts staff were a completely different shape to the ones where I work...

It's a semi-flippant topic I know, but I'd be genuinely interested to know if other people experience the same thing or are aware of it.

It raises some interesting thoughts on interview technique as well...

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:52 AM

I had a boss once who, all else being equal, would generally hire tall and very rotund women. All else being equal is the key here...he did hire me, after all!

I frequent several coffee shops, and I notice that the staff at each has a distinct resemblance to their coworkers...Goths at one, slim dance-major types at another, and so forth - even though the same person (I think) is hiring for them all. I suspect it is because they tell their friends "hey, there's a vacancy where I work" more than anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:54 AM

I employ people based upon competency, education, and their perceived ability to do the job. Body shape and size have nothing to do with the decision, although probably wouldn't hire some who was morbidly obese for a job requiring him or her to move through small opening such as the hatch to the roof.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Nick
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:11 AM

Rapaire

Of course one wouldn't expect anyone here on Mudcat people other than on a completely rational competence-centred basis but there may be another group of people out there in the world who might work on a more sub-conscious level. I'm not suggesting that this is a totally conscious decision but it is an interesting coincidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:15 AM

I know that the head of our accounting department smokes. So does everyone she hires.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:39 AM

There used to be a baker's shop near here, staffed entirely by young ladies of extremely petite build.

The shop was tiny....

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:55 AM

I'm also in a library with a lot of types on the payroll. What they try to make sure we all have in common is that we're smart and above competent.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

I once worked with another lawyer who selected his secretaries almost
entirely on cup size.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:11 AM

I'm reminded of the advice on recruiting for a polar expedition in Sellars' and Yeatman's "And now all this". "Choose your companions carefully; you may have to eat them."

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Nick
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:17 AM

On that basis I'd take our accounts department and stay alive for months

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:23 AM

I once worked in a firm in London where one of the partners refused to interview job applicants to work for him who had addresses south of the river Thames. This was a conscious decision on his part and he did not mind people knowing about it.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:30 AM

I think Hooters does.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM

Same goes for the Atherley Arms just outside Orillia.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,pattyClnk
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:58 AM

Yes, I've seen it in some places, people love to employ 'their own kind'. Alums of the same school with the same major, and yes, same body type now that I think of it. Only problem is they all wind up with the same narrow viewpoint and skills and none of them are very good at what the company actually needs next. Where this is rampant, sell the company stock short, because the managers show the same lack of imagination in their other endeavors.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:25 AM

I'm convinced that the general population is unconsciously swayed by the stereotypes of good guys/bad guys which they have been seeing in movies and TV. My husband, who is a great person, has a beard and crooked teeth, and most people's first reaction to him is of fear and dislike. Then he smiles and jokes, and they get over it.

As part of this stereotyping, it is also far easier to go through life tall, slim, with nice hair and regular features. Extraordinary beauty is not required, but if you want to be an administrative assistant, you better look like the administrative assistants on TV. Minus the mini-skirts, of course.

There were books of yore, 'Dress for Success,' and 'Dress for Success for Women,' which systematically studied the prejudices of mid-managers. That was an eye opener.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:56 AM

Yes, and if you have longish hair, like I do, and you're male...most people still assume all kinds of unfounded negative stuff about you until they actually get to know you.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Nick
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:02 PM

>>Where this is rampant, sell the company stock short, because the managers show the same lack of imagination in their other endeavors

Now that's an interesting thought. We are still fairly diversely shaped in our company as a whole - when it changes dramatically perhaps that's the time to look for another job. That presumably helps speed the process towards homogeneity (and hence stagnation?).

So perhaps as a corollary to the original question is the diversity of body shapes in an organisation directly proportional to the health and vitality of it (one could perhaps bring it closer to this site and consider whether the same thing exists in folk gatherings even though they are not chosen by anyone but choose themselves based on the 'rules' and standards set by those who run it).

I have a colleague I work with who keeps bursting into laughter as she walks across our open plan office between departments this afternoon as it was something she hadn't thought about before.

Anyway - back to body types. Two painters and decorators came in to quote for a job in the office today and were seen by the head of the accounts department. One was round and large, the other thin and scrawny - we wonder which one will get the job? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:15 PM

Ha! One does see this sort of thing happen in folk gatherings too, Nick...although, I think to a lesser extent. Nevertheless, birds of a feather do tend to flock together, there's no doubt about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:15 PM

I used to employ people by their ability to spell, the choice was very small based on that criteria.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:23 PM

I once rejected a job applicant out of hand because he spelled his first name three different ways in the same application. Yeah, call me biased in favor of a tiny modicum of education....

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:27 PM

Really???

Was it: "Shane", "Shaen", and "Shayne", by any chance?

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:33 PM

There may well be an underlying subconscious tendency to employ one's own, but surely any employer worth his/her salt would overlay that with the imperatives of the job in hand. And then there is the availability of appropriate staff in the local market, company policies about recycling jobs within existing "at danger" staff (something I generally support), and all sorts of other parameters that affect the makeup of any workforce.

Which is why I was so pleasantly surprised to be told after I was accepted into my new dayjob that my folk and songwriting angle actually helped, because one of the criteria had been "to have a feeling for the human angle, not be a dyed-in-the-wool company person. We have plenty of those already". Now, that was very openminded, I thought, for the position of CIO. Most employers would not have considered this a viable criterion, and many would have thought it a negative trait.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:23 PM

No, LH, I heard it was Shyann, ShyAnne, or Cheyenne.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:47 PM

or perhaps Chaianne.....let's be creative here!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Melissa
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:49 PM

I don't know whether it's body type or fashionable undergarmenting, but an unsettling percentage of receptionists for work-comp spinal specialists in the Kansas City area appear to be hiding a split nerf ball in their shirts.
Exactly the size and shape of the nerf balls of my childhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:53 PM

I just wish my office had taken the hunk from IT as their role model, rather than the chunk from Admin or the clunk from HR that they chose.

Still, it means all the mad, bad and sad people are in one office and not making a lot more people miserable.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rowan
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:36 PM

Thirty odd years ago there was a chain of Pancake Parlours around Oz. No matter the geographical location, every one of them I entered was staffed in the kitchen by only males, all of whom were rather lean, and all of the front-of-house staff were young women who were required to wear (and look good) in T shirts. I'd been told they were all owned by a pseudo-religious cult but now there's legislation proscribing such discrimination.

Virgin Airlines recently appeared in court in Oz claiming that the reason all their flight attendants were young and good looking and that a series of very experienced (and necessarily older, but still attractive) applicants for flight attendant positions had been rejected was 'accidental and not based on company policy'.

I believe there was some reference to porcine flying helmets at Virgin's claim.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 10:24 AM

A lot of employers have no management training at all. I doubt many actually think about their hiring in relation to the terms discussed here, or make a conscious decision either way.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 01:01 AM

I agree, Susan.

I experienced this myself once. I was on vacation once, taking a Smithsonian trip to experience the reefs of Florida. (This was before Smithsonian trips required a second mortgage.) The director of the camp where we stayed had curly black hair and an engaging manner, yet every time I saw him, I felt suspicion and resentment.

Finally I realized that my problem was that I had just worked with an evil-tempered, bullying driller who was the same physical type, including the curly black hair. My reaction was based on primitive fear, which told me, "Stay away from that kind of man!"

I wonder how many people go through life without ever having an insight of that type.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 01:15 AM

yes..

i've over many years sadly learnt to be very suspicious..

so.. no smokers or junkies or fat greedy arses..


probably thats why i aint got a band of my own this last 5 years or more....

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: bubblyrat
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 02:16 PM

About ten years ago, I hired a pleasant enough, knowledgeable young man of about 24 to work serving the public in a camping shop.After about four days , I asked him about some "Designer Stubble " which had appeared, and asked him if he was growing a beard . He replied that he wasn"t ,and had "not had time " to shave. When I told him to either grow a proper beard, or make sure that he had a proper shave every morning , he was quite unable to understand the logic of my request !!----When I pointed that he looked positively SCRUFFY, he was quite unable to grasp the concept !! O! TEMPORA ! O ! MORES !

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: HuwG
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 05:01 PM

A rather bumptious pupil at the school I went to submitted an application to a prestigious Oxford College. They rejected him, without explanation. He complained, alleging Collegiate bias against students from grammar schools as opposed to public (i.e. "posh") schools, or those from the North of England. The college replied that he had applied to take a course in "Polotics" (sic). They did not offer such a course.

I have found employers who went for stereotyped backgrounds and attitudes as opposed to appearance. One high street bank seemed to promote the smug, loud-talking types with 2.4 children or whatever while holding back the careers of those divorced or single. Likewise, those who could sprinkle their CVs with only with references to three-letter acronyms relating to the most arcane aspects of finance software were at an advantage compared to those who could demonstrate a breadth and depth of experience and initiative.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: GUEST,es&l
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:34 AM

"I used to employ people by their ability to spell, the choice was very small based on that criteria."

CRITERION

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 09:47 AM

You apply, you pass the initial screening of the applications (one woman put down as a qualification for the head of the Children's Department that she "has had a permit to carry a pistol in Utah for over 20 years" -- and well, no, sorry, we didn't feel that was a valid qualification), we do a police background check of those with potential, we interview them, they are tested in some way (e.g., to work with children you might have to present a live story hour to kids), and the we hire who we think is the best of the bunch.

There ARE some restrictions, set by the city: No visible extensive tattoos for public service jobs, for example, and ditto for body piercings.

Otherwise, if you can do the job we don't care if you're fat, thin, ugly, confined to a wheelchair, short, tall, over 40 (and many of us are), male/female/other/none, or what.

Right now I am working with the best staff I have worked with in 35+ years in the library biz....

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Neighmond
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM

My boss always wants to hire shapely lassies for the sales force. If a nice-looking woman showed up that could fix his clocks he'd throw me out the door in a minute.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 05:56 AM

i rekon if you wok in a small place, then its a good idea to give jobs only to midgits.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 08:54 AM

This is a very enlightening thread! I hadn't known hiring was such a psychologically complex phenomenon.

I had always assumed people were hired based upon their abilities to bow, grovel, supplicate, and work for low pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Rowan
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 04:41 PM

BWL, you implied, but forgot, "tugging the forelock".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Do people employ staff by shape and size
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:07 PM

I wonder which criteria Maplin Electonics use - moron perhaps?