BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport (2007)

Subject: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:52 AM

On CNN this morning, a report of a Polish man ( who did not speak English) in a Canadian airport who was tasered by the RCMP and died.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:54 AM

GET EM

thats what we train them to do.

Hell in the US we have shot and killed two perfectly innocent passengers (oops) and hung one (opps the handcuffs got stuck by her own doing)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:58 AM

Yes, but aren't tha Canadians morally superior to the US?

Or do they have feet of clay like the rest of the human race?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

"CANADIAN police are under fire after a tourist's video showing the dramatic last moments of a Polish construction worker.

Robert Dziekanski, 40, of Pieszyce, Poland, was shown to have died after police shocked him with a Taser stun gun at Vancouver's airport last month.

Mr Dziekanski was on his first plane trip to see his mother, whom he wanted to live with after migrating to Canada.

After waiting 10 hours for her after a mix-up, he apparently panicked. He died within minutes.

In the video, Mr Dziekanski, who spoke no English, appears frightened and exhausted, and speaks to himself in Polish. Agitated, at one point, he throws a computer to the ground.

Four policemen surround him. One says, "How are you, sir?"

He appears to turn his back on them, trying to move away.

A policeman hits him with a Taser; he screams, falls, and writhes as the police pin him down.

Seconds later, he is seen lying still.

Police had originally taken a tourist's video recording; he went to court to get it back."

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:02 AM

"By CINDY GEORGE and JOHN MCCLAIN
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Houston Texans football player Fred Weary, who was shocked by police with a Taser last year during a traffic stop, has sued the city of Houston and the two officers involved in the incident.

In a federal civil rights lawsuit filed Tuesday, the athlete said he was unlawfully stopped, shocked and arrested during an encounter with officers Margaret T. McGivern and Joe F. Vasquez. Weary says his constitutional rights were violated by excessive force, malicious prosecution, assault and false imprisonment.

Weary, who is black, also accuses the defendants of racial profiling.

The offensive lineman said he wants to defend his reputation and find out why so many people shocked by the Houston Police Department are charged in those incidents but not convicted."

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:03 AM

Nov. 14, 2007, 8:53AM
Taser Gets 3 Orders From Police Agencies

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. — Stun-gun maker Taser International Inc. said Wednesday it has received three "significant" orders from law-enforcement agencies in Texas, Virginia and Tennessee.

The Houston police department ordered 480 X26 electronic weapons and accessories; the police department in Suffolk, Va., ordered 140 of the stun guns and 140 cameras; and the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department in Chattanooga, Tenn., ordered 110 stun guns and 110 camera systems.

Financial terms were not disclosed. The orders will ship during the fourth quarter.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:04 AM

"Today, by the count of CBS News, 70 people have died after being TASERed, including 10 in August alone, Andrews observes. And while the company asserts every one of these victims died of something else, many critics believe the company has not done enough research to know that with certainty, Andrews adds."




Take your trolling and run along, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:06 AM

Seems your folks are better at it than ours, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:15 AM

Incidentally, of the documented 245 deaths by taser, worldwidem 15 have been in Canada by users of the device which sends 50,000 volts through the persons body. That's about 6% for anyone interested. Now, I will leave this thread and allow beardedbruce to continue his anti-Canadian effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:18 AM

We have 10 times the population, thus 10 times the deaths. But I guess I *** CAN *** complain about the posting of deaths by US police, since you protest the poesting of those by Canadians.

Again, I see no reason for YOU to protest abotu the posting of the ills of Canada when the posting of US problems goes is met with approval as proof of the US having bad intentions.


Sometimes an accident IS an accident. But around here, it becomes a reason to castigate the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM

BE CAREFUL

Whenever an airport employee asksyou how you are they are actually asking the first question of the threat assessment protocal.

I kid you not!

best to say you are fine and dandy. if you even say you have a headache you go to the next threat assessment level which is detainment and search.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:23 AM

Except in Canada, where they give you an aspirin.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:24 AM

This thread is beneath you, beardedbruce. In fact, it's beneath trolling. Though you were better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:27 AM

70?

thats not so many

How would Cheney respond to a bit of tasing?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:28 AM

I agree that the US gets more than its share of blame. But telling me to mow my lawn doesn't make yours look better.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:30 AM

I'll remember that the next time the US is criticized for something the police do.


MY point is that, even in utopic nations such as Canada, who are morally pure and favoured by the gods, accidents/unintended consequences can occur. If it can even happen there, perhaps some should be a * little * slower to assign deliberate intention on the part of the US to some things that occur.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM

Incidentally,

"the posting of US problems goes is met with approval as proof of the US having bad intentions."

1) You are much more logical than THAT, bb.

2) Sometimes countries DO have bad intentions. (Witness Canada and the asbestos trade.)

3) If you were meaning to discuss tasers as being a poor choice of weapons (because the seeming harmlessness when compared to .38s or 9 mm guns appear to be more lethal thus rendering the taser a 'good' second choice), I agree. If you started this thread to slag Canada--which is how it seems, then you are trolling and it's beneath you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM

In the UK of course we shoot ours in the head with seven shots.

Remarkably no-one is prosecuted for killing an innocent man.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7061718.stm

ou would have thought with around twenty witnesses and four or five policeman present when it happened that someone would have been found guilty.

How do they find people who have killed people when there are no witnesses and no police present!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

We have laws here that fine you if you don't mow your lawn. They say a unmowed lawn decreases property values.

But its OK to drop your property value due to mortgage crimes/schemes and meltdowns by 40%

no fine for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

"But telling me to mow my lawn doesn't make yours look better. "

Then perhaps some here should stop telling the US how to deal with situations that their own countries have failed, for various reasons, to deal effectively with...


Stil waiting for the European Union to take care of the whole Iranian nuclear situation, as they promised in order to stop any US action.


I just take some comfort in the fact that the IRBMs that Iran presently have will only reach to Europe, and not across the Atlantic.

Though they can be launched from a container ship several hundred miles off the coast...

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:39 AM

Tasers are safe so those people had no right to die. They should have read the instructions first.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:40 AM

Peace,

Tasers are like those ther criticised, horrible "non-lethal" weapons such as sonic guns, tear gas and rubber bullets. They CAN kill, and that needs to be shouted to the world. BUT they are FAR less lethal than the alternatives- bullets and bayonets.

Of course, it has always been ok to batter your opponants to death- but look at the protests over the various "non-lethat" weapons as being nhumane

Tear gas has probably saved more lives than were killed in the Civil War ( American) Look at the death tolls in those places that still use "traditional" methods of crowd control

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:43 AM

So we are now stemming the tide of the Muslim jihad hoard
by tazing anyone who feels frustrated?

Aww Bearded bruce is frustrated.
He may think a nuclear solution to jihad is over due.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:58 AM

"Aww Bearded bruce is frustrated.
He may think a nuclear solution to jihad is over due. "


Maybe Donuel is the frustrated one.

I have stated repeatedly that the nation who first uses nuclear weapons in a present-day conflict is wrong, should be consigned to hell.

And when, because of the failure of the UN and the European Union to deal with Iran's nuclear program Hezbollah gets access to a WMD, I fear that they WILL use it, and that, unless they are all destroyed, and none of their goals achieved, it will be established that the use on WMD is acceptable, and will occur repeatedly in the future.

We have gone 60+ years without having nuclear weapons used: The other WMDs WERE used ( by Saddam, for example).

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:00 AM

Any first use of nuclear weapons may well consign all of us to Hell.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:04 AM

Parts of Canada, and South America will probably survive. But you might have to learn Chinese to talk to your government.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:18 AM

Good for you Bruce,

still

Once you introduce "pre emptive" invasions and torture as the norm the slippery slope to first use nukes is slick as hell.

Did you ever think how proving who set it off first would be subject to the same propoganda we see on FOX everyday.
Few would ever really know who was first.
nor would it matter to anyone except the victims and warlord propogandists.

The production of tiny tactical nukes (against treaties) is said to be big business in this administration.
This regieme still touts Strength over diplomacy.
Strength does not mean wisdom in this case unless population control via nuke and bio warfare is wise.

This is why deficits don't matter. Corp corruption dosen't matter. Making more money than God will buy a bunker capable of weathering the planned storm.

We can only hope that these ideas are purely cynical.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:19 AM

Jaysus, I need SOME other language to talk with my government. They do NOT understand English, that's a fer shore. Thanks to you making me aware of the sabestos thing with Canada I have sent e-mails. Also about Burma. And a few other things. They seem not to hear or understand.

Dear __________________,

Thank you for your interest in this important issue. We will forward your concerns to the appropriate department, blah, blah, blah.

Sincerely,

We Who Control Things

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:23 AM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/famtree_dees.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: GUEST,Zeke
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:51 AM

Perhaps I'm not the only one who can't figure out what someone means when they say, "We have laws here..." Unless you tell us, many of us don't know where you live. Are Donuel or Bearded Bruce from the U.K. or America or someplace else? It would be easier to understand if this was made clear.
Thanks to Folkie Dave for saying, "In the U.K. we..."
I realize that some of the regular members may forget that some of us newbies don't know you yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:53 AM

BB and Don are Americans. I am Canuck. And you are . . . ?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:03 PM

Not just American, but.... INSIDE the Beltway!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: gnu
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 02:36 PM

Now you have lost me too, bb. What does "INSIDE the Beltway!" mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

"Inside the beltway"...where straw man arguments are, I presume, tolerated and used with impunity?

You gotta find a new approach to making points, bb. That's the same basic tack you took way back at the Teresa Heinz Kerry 'naughty language' incident.

   YOU are the one asserting that everyone ELSE is applying different standards to US incidents and, further, that THEY are implying that their country(s) are pure and without blame.....but unless you can specifically cite such a claim & implication, it don't work as an argument. Yes, the US does get a lot of unfair criticism, but showing that an incident also happened somewhere else doesn't lessen ANY guilt.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:02 PM

(In Wash D.C. area, where both bb & I live, "Inside the Beltway" can mean physically located within the I-495 ring that encircles the place, or suggest that someone is comprised by being associated with the bureaucracy)

Though...neither of us live or work inside the Beltway..as far as I know. I thought bb worked at a more distant facility. Perhaps I misunderstood

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: GUEST,Mrrzy on Firefox, where's my cookie?
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM

Don't tase me, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:36 PM

Your cookie was confiscated by security, Mrrzy...thank goodness you didn't fight them for it!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: GUEST,Zeke
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:59 PM

I'm a Canadian and I know that there are many Canadians whose actions I don't approve of, including the police in the video in question. There are also many Americans, British, Irish, Mexicans, Iraquis... whose actions I don't approve of, but there are also many Canadians, Americans, British, Irish, Mexicans, Iraquis whom I would be happy to call my friend. The country of origin has little to do with many of our actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:35 PM

The country of origin has little to do with many of our actions.

I agree with what Zeke said. Folks in every nation has done both great good and great evil. I don't know of any Utopia on earth.

-Azizi {another UnitedStater}

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:47 PM

"Inside the Beltway" has very negative connotations in the rest of the US.

The local cops are looking into Tasers. Currently they can physically restrain you, use an expandable baton, use a "beanbag" shotgun round (if the car is so equipped), or shoot you dead with a 5.56mm carbine or a .45 ACP Glock pistol or a 12 gauge shotgun. The Sheriff's office has Tasers and our cops are looking at them as something between hand-to-hand combat and shooting you with something.

Knowing our police dept., there will be VERY strict rules on their use. This, after all, is The Wild West -- not Texas.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:48 PM

Using a taser in circumstances when the only other option would be to shoot the target person with a gun seems, at least in principle, justifiable,

In any other circumstances it ought to be treated as an act of attempted murder. And if the target died, as an act of murder. Whoever does it - police officer or bank robber.

That doesn't seem to be how their use is regulated in places where they are in use, and I get worried about the proposed arming of police in England with these dangerous toys. I think there are some members of the force who are quite capable of this kind of thing.
................

It's a bit nasty the way this thread has been dominated by a rather squalid little squabble between neighbours in North America. THe fact that this poor bloke died seems to be seen as trivial.   

This news story link has the video showing the police killing Robert Dziekanski. Pretty clearly this wasn't a situation where the only other option would have been to shoot him with a gun. Hell, there were four large policemen around him, and no members of the public anywhere near.

What is shown in that video is brutal, cowardly and incompetant, and that would have been just as true whatever country it happened in.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:13 PM

Not just American, but.... just barely OUTSIDE the Beltway!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Cowardly is not too strong a term.

I don't want to watch the video but I may end up seeing it against my will. It does seem like a story that is NOT on cable news however, especially with everyone about to fly for the holidays.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:30 PM

As a former Military Policeman, I can see several alternatives to what the police in video did.

It should have been possible to grapple with the man and use ordinary hand-to-hand tactics (which are, or should be, part of every cop's training) to restraint him. After that finding someone to speak with him in his own language would have been feasible.

Looks to me like some boys had some toys and used them instead of doing some good police work.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:37 PM

Did the man destroy an airport computer?

Did the airport self destruct?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:52 PM

Generally you have no constitutional rights in real time police actions.

If you do not speak the language you are even further disadvantaged.

the ACLU makes films to help you survive police encounters

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3435730304776119545&q=busted+aclu+police&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:18 PM

The very end of the video clip has to do with airline searches.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Grab
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:26 PM

Related, the BBC had an article today about a guy in Leeds who was tazed because he was a diabetic in a hypo coma and couldn't talk! This was shortly before De Menezes was shot - according to the article, the bloke said "When I heard about that Brazilian man in London I just thought, 'oh no, that could have been me'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/7096456.stm

Don't get me wrong; it's better to shoot someone with a tazer than a bullet. But it's better still to use your brains and figure out whether the person in your sights is a threat or not.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:34 PM

Technology is no substitute for good police work -- or plain old good sense.

It's a tool, not a solution in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadians taser Polish man in airport
From: number 6
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:42 PM

"But you might have to learn Chinese to talk to your government."

I'm Canadian, and I'm already sending my (almost 3 yr. old) Canadian grandson to Chinese language lessons.

biLL