BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bee
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:16 PM

"'Cat came back cause she couldn't stay away", Ted. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 02:05 PM

M.Ted..re your post at 13th Feb 0907am.
Perhaps you could read the following and make comment.
1 Corinthians 6v9.
Romans 1 v 26-31.
Leviticus 18 v 22-30.
Leviticus 20v13.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 04:24 PM

Bee posted comments about a number of those verses already, but here is a more comprehensive discussion, written by Rev. Mel White. What the Bible Does, and Doesn't Say About Homosexuality

I don't expect you to accept it--it is simply to show you that there is another side than the one that you have chosen to accept.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 04:37 PM

GS--Bee addressed some of those verses--Here is a more extensive discussion, written by Rev. Mel White. What the Bible Does, and Doesn't Say About Homosexuality

I don't expect you to accept what he has to say--but I hope you will consider that, as an ordained minister and Bible scholar, his views are as honest and legitimate as others that may differ.

You may also want to read the Wikipedia Entry on the King James Version. It helps to understand that it was a creation of men, and, if it was based on the word of God, it also was tainted by the religious and secular politics of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 04:53 PM

I thought I'd lost the post before it posted, hence two, only slightly different postings. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:09 PM

from memory:
"Verily I say unto you: nothing is unclean of itself, but if a man esteemeth a thing to be unclean, unto him it is unclean.."

Can't remember exact passage right now..

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:18 PM

ah,,,Romans 14:14

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:36 PM

JEsus, this thread has really corkscrewed south, I must say.

Who gives a tinker's dam what an ancient tome from a lot of pre-industrial farmers says?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bee
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 08:57 PM

Quite a few people, Amos, by all accounts, which is why I think it's interesting to point out that it is a multiply copied and translated and misinterpreted agrarian warrior society collection of manuscripts.

And then there's the literary value, which is significant, if only because of its age and the amount of time people have spent feverishly reading their own desires, fears, hatreds into its hoary language.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 08:36 AM

Besides, it will be interesting to see what Georgiansilver will have to say once he's researched all the stuff being bandied about here...

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

I propose a new sacred season, between Christmastide and Lent, called "Nopiphany." The theme of the season's observance is to waste time on this argument-- time that could have been spent living and implementing our ideals.

Nice, carrying over as it does from sometimes-busy Advent/Christmastide to sometimes-busy Lent, distracting anyone who might have observed either of those seasons.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:46 AM

Ah, but to some of us, this argument IS implementing our ideals...

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

You've made idealists out of slackers everywhere, Mrzzy-

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:54 AM

No, no, I'll do that tomorrow - well, maybe next week.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:07 PM

There is one really strong and good reason, to my way of thinking, for reading the King James translation of the large colelction of rag-tag moral and mythic assertions collected int he two Testaments, and it is the remarkable color and beauty of the English language used to express the sentiments (correctly or not) found in those myriad palimpsestuous parchments, producing a masterpiece of Jacobean prose. The men who did the scholarly work¹ of moving the Greek and Hebrew versions of the early Aramaic into solid 17thC English were deeply read and at the same time poetically inspired, and their turns of phrases are in many cases so elegant as to be stunning.

I think a lot of the devoutness assigned to the Bible may be misplaced, and should be laid at their feet.


A

^-1- The Authorized Version was translated by 47 scholars (although 54 were originally approved)(Daniell 2003, p. 436) working in six committees, two based in each of the University of Oxford, the University of Cambridge, and Westminster. All except one - Sir Henry Savile - were ordained priests of the Church of England (Bobrick 2001, p. 223) , but the panels included scholars with Puritan sympathies, as well as High Churchmen. Forty unbound copies of the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible were specially printed so that the agreed changes of each committee could be recorded in the margins (Daniell 2003, p. 442). They worked on certain parts separately; then the drafts produced by each committee were compared and revised for harmony with each other (Daniell 2003, p. 444) . The scholars were not paid directly for their translation work; instead a circular letter was sent to bishops,, encouraging them to consider the translators for appointment to well paid livings as these fell vacant(Bobrick 2001, p. 223) . Several were supported by the various colleges at Oxford and Cambridge, while others were promoted to bishoprics, deaneries and prebends through royal patronage. In overall scope and scale - and in the thorough application of procedures for checking, cross-consulting and review - this was far the most ambitious biblical translation project undertaken in Europe in the Reformation era. (Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM

Amos followed a link, read it, and thought about it.

Maybe someday, some one else will. And then, maybe someone else. And someone else, and someone else, until finally, many people will be reading things and thinking about them instead of just skimming threads full of IMHOs. What a wonderful world we could have then!

I believe in that world, and I guess that makes me an idealist. I posted the link that Amos read.
and I guess that makes me an activist.

I could feel pretty good about myself today--but I don't. Not yet, anyway, because I know that pasting up one link to something that someone else wrote, it is not going to change the world. But if I I paste up one link a day, that's 365 links in a year, and nearly 4,000 links in a decade, and think what a difference that could make!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:22 PM

New word: HACKtivist. It's the kind of activist who hacks into systems...

And changing the world one person at a time is what this is all about, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM

"-1- The Authorized Version was translated by 47 scholars (although 54 were originally approved)("


                         My god, it could have been written in Congress!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

"A camel is a horse designed by a committee."

A platypus is...........

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:36 PM

Hi Mike,

You ask me why I left Christianity behind.

Christianity is based on an authoritarian mindset. You have a pecking order in which a supreme deity tells you what to do. It is a Big Parent in the sky and bosses you around.
It takes away from responsibility of an individual to make their own decisions. I realized that if I were ever to grow up and become self-sufficient I could not bow down or pray to a
Big Daddy. The bible turned out to be an insufficient source of inspiration. It was contradictory and a jumbled mess of stories that didn't add up to anything important for me.

I also found out that morality has nothing to do with religion. Therefore, after exploring other religious avenues, I found them all to be pretty much the same thing, rules and dictums that have no bearing on day to day life. I am so happy to be free of all that.

When I left mythology behind I began to appreciate the needs of others. I believe I became a better citizen.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:45 PM

Funny, Frank, but that's exactly how I feel about the government! ;-) Just replace "Christianity" and various other words in your post with "the government" and you'll see what I mean right away.

Like this...

You ask me why I left my faith in The Government behind.

The Government is based on an authoritarian mindset. You have a pecking order in which a supreme authority tells you what to do. It is a Big Parent in the Capitol and it bosses you around.
It takes away from the responsibility of an individual to make their own decisions. I realized that if I were ever to grow up and become self-sufficient I could not bow down or pray to a
Big Daddy in Washington (or Ottawa). The Government turned out to be an insufficient source of inspiration. It was contradictory and a jumbled mess of stories that didn't add up to anything important for me.

I also found out that morality has nothing to do with The Government. Therefore, after exploring other possible avenues of belief, that is...other governments, I found them all to be pretty much the same thing, rules and dictums that have no bearing on my day to day life. I would be so happy to be free of all that.

When I left mythology behind I began to appreciate the needs of others. I believe I became a better citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:22 PM

No--it's about changing yourself--