Tech: Recording on Computers

Subject: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:00 PM

I've just been through a search, and found no one's had much to say about recording their music since 2005, so maybe it's time for a new discussion.

Do you record your singing and playing directly through a mic plugged into your computer? Use a seperate digital set-up? Some other method?

What kind of software do you use to 'play' with the sounds you make?

I'm fishin' here, got all kinds of Christmas present computer power at my fingertips and want to know where I can go past the 99 cent mic and Windows Sound Recorder - which even that sounds a lot better on the new baby.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Francy
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:03 PM

I use a Mobile Pre USB, which is a preamplifier for professional mics/and/or guitar pickups. Is is downloaded into the computer and plugs into your USB. It also becomes your computer sound card.....It can be used with any number of recording programs....I use Cubase and get excellent results.....Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Brendy
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:20 PM

I bought this: The Fostex MR8 HD in November. I've had a few cassette-type 4 tracks before, but this was my first step into the digital age of home recording.

I tried recording directly into Sonar on the computer, but too much processing power was been taken up and after a few audio tracks get added, syncing could be terrible be-times...

The MR8's are fairly cheap at the minute; I've seen versions of them at twice the price. That particular one has a 40GB hard drive...., much better than those totally useless (imo) Compact Flash yokes.

There is a bit of choice out there, all the same, but I'm happy enough (so far) with the HDR I got. Fostex themselves, describe it as an 'Entry Level' multitracker.

When I get rich, I'll buy Abbey Road, and let all my mates record for free.....

B.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:40 PM

T'anks, guys. Keep it coming, I'm takin' notes.

I won't be looking for fancy - not skilled enough to justify - but I wanna learn what's out there, especially for amateurs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:55 PM

Hi Bee: That was one of my first questions on Mudcat and I've learned a lot here. Since you're going the computer route, you will need a Large Diaphragm Microphone and an Audio interface to get digital sound into your computer. Forget the 1/8" inch jack. It will create hiss. I can pm you with some links if you like but you can expect to spend $200 just to get started.
Most folks around here, swear by Audacity but it's too complicated for the likes of me so I forked out $50 for Mixcraft.
The best example of sound quality for a solo track, with my set up would probably be "The Bold Tommy Makem" or "The Convict of Clomnel" at http://www.myspace.com/folksingerjim
You can buy a decent mic online, for around $100 and a small audio interface for around the same price but one of the more advanced audio interfaces at around $250 will give you phantom power, two inputs and various bells and whistles which you will find a use for as you progress. The latter purchase should be made at a local music shop in case of compatibility issues. (which do happen)
Welcome to the wonderful world of microphonology.
Cheers!
Jim

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 11:48 PM

Although the articles getting a bit oldish, there still might be some ideas to be stolen borrowed from articles like Build a Digital Audio Workstation, Part I

I'm not really into audio much so I haven't checked; but there may be a more recent re-do of the subject. The magazine runs a regular series of DIY computerish projects.

(I thought that the recommendation of Win98SE as "possibly better" than more modern OS versions for home sound work was interesting.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 12:02 AM

Daughter and boyfriend have just bought a Mac. They showed me the included recording stuff yesterday. I was impressed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Francy
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 12:43 AM

I am using a large diaphragm condenser mic and an instrument mic....the nice thing about this Mobile Pre USB is it has phantom power if you need it.....It comes with a compatible recording program and the total cost of the unit is less than $200....Use your own judgement on how much you want to spend on mics...Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 01:20 AM

I spent the last couple of months researching stuff with the idea of setting up my own home studio. I won't bore you with the false trails I followed and the blind alleys I went down, but between my own poking around and the advice of a few friends who have their own set-ups, I wound up blowing the budget and putting together the following kit:

Microphones: Marshall MXL Pro Pack Plus – two condenser microphones, one suited to voice the other suited for acoustic instrument such as guitar. CLICKY #1. Both mics and other goodies for $250. Comes complete with shock mounts, two 15 foot cables (professional XLR connectors), wind screens if necessary, and all in a stout padded case. A couple of friends have this mic kit and like it a lot. Got them from Front End Audio. These plug into

Lexicon Omega Desktop Studio – an analog to digital converter—and more—that plugs into a USB port in a computer. It has a number of inputs and outputs (1/4") for things such as headphones, and on the back are two XLR connectors (for the mic cables) and phantom power. $185 (list price, $420). I got it from Amazon. CLICKY #2.

I've been advised to get a really good set of headphones (ones that cover the ears) so you can really hear what you're recording. Studio quality. So I got a set of Audio Technica ATH-M50 Professional Studio Monitoring Headphones. $145. I also got them through Amazon. CLICKY #3. I notice that they've gone up to $170. In any case, get a good set of headphones.

After all this, I can't yet say how it all works because I just got the stuff. I'm waiting for a couple of mic stands and a pop filter that haven't come yet (condenser mics are fairly sensitive to popping "P's" and hissing "S's").

I've also been told that I need a fast hard drive—7200 rpm—to avoid "latency" (delay between what you sing and what you hear coming back through the phones, which can drive you nuts!), so I also bought an external USB hard drive (500 GB, 7200 rpm) to record to. I was going to get an external hard drive anyway, just on general principles, so I just made sure I got a fast one with good capacity. About $150.

One point about audio interfaces for the computer (e.g. the Lexicon Omega). It's a good idea to get one that exceeds the specifications of commercial CDs, if making such is your goal. A commercial CD can manage up to 16-bit, 44.1 sample rate. The Omega can record at up to 24-bit, 96 sample rate. I've been informed that if you do your recordings at the higher bit depth and sample rates, the CD can't actually reproduce the better sound, but somehow voodoo seems to kick in and the CD sounds fuller and richer.

I'm taking a lot of this on faith. When I get the rest of the gear and get the whole thing cobbled together, I'll give you a report. Might be a few weeks, though.

Now, if I could only do something about my "frog in a rain barrel" voice. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:39 AM

Vocal mic. ....   AKG Perception 100..... $100
Instrument mic.. AKG C1000S.....         $250 (Years ago)
Audio interface,, M Audio Fast Track Pro. $250
Programme..       Mixcraft 3             $50
Has phantom power, ASIO, inserts., pads, midi & more.
24 bits at 44.1 is what I use and is pretty well standard.
I started out with the M Audio 2 which came in around $100 and then passed it on to my buddy who will add Harmonica, Whistle, Bodhran at home and either e-mail his tracks to me or we'll use memory sticks.

There is just no limit to what you can do now.
Lay down a track. E-mail it to other musicians and let them add their tracks at their own leisure. No studio costs and when your done... take it to a real studio for mastering if you like.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:42 AM

"Has phantom power, ASIO, inserts....."
I was referring to the Audio Interface, of course.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:30 AM

The Aussie Magazine "Silicon Chip" has in the November 2007 issue an article "Your Own Home recording Studio", pp 10-17.
Learn how to produce audio CDs for musos at a fraction of the cost of a recording studio.


Incidentally there is also Part 1 of a 2 part (continued in the next month) construction project "Playback Adaptor for CD-ROM Drives", pp 40-47.
Nifty adaptor can use old (obsolete for PC CD speeds) CD-ROM drives to play back standard audio CDs using an IR remote control, up to 2 old CD-ROM drives, and the PIC based circuit - circuit boards and kits are available.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:52 AM

I suppose if was was to attempt recording with mics, one of the first things I'd want to do is reduce the noise from the 2 PCs under my desk.

Software wise, I would be using Linux. Probably one of the versions with a real time Kernel and set up for this work. I had a vague look a few. weeks ago and found

64 Studio, Ubuntu seem to have one, etc.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 08:00 AM

If you're using a PC then I would thoroughly recommend spending the money to buy a USB external soundcard. I use a Mac so I have an M-Audio Firewire (rather than USB) external soundcard, but if I used a PC I'd buy the M-Audio equivalent for USB. The portability of it is great. If you ever bought a laptop, for example, you could just plug it straight in. Or if you wanted to record at a friend's house, on their PC, you could just take it with you (rather than your lugging your whole PC)

Probably with hindsight I would have invested in a model with more inputs (mine has two) because I occasionally try to record full bands (several different instruments simultaneously) and it would be useful to be able to mic each one up individually, rather than overdubbing or clustering several musicians round a single omni microphone. But for 99% of my recording – which is just myself on vocals and guitar – I get great sound quality results.

Just make sure your sound card has a pre-amp built in. Lots of people slag off M-Audio products, and claim they're unreliable. I've never experienced any problems, and find that their built-in pre-amps are totally hiss-free, completely noiseless.

Especially since I just invested in an AKG C414B XLS microphone. A wondrous thing of joy. But even before then, when I was using an AKG C2000B, I still got results I was happy with. (Hell, I quite like the results I get playing straight into my iBook's crappy built-in mic. Sounds very "vintage 1930s"!)

As far as mics go, I would recommend spending closer to $200 US dollars for a new microphone. As with most things, you're better off 2ndhand of course. I'd look on eBay for any of the following:

Audio Technica AT3035
Audio Technica AT4040
(or any of the Audio Technicas around this price. There's a great little discussion about em here: http://www.sweetwater.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2532.html )
AKG C3000B
Rode NT1000

As far as software goes, most soundcards come with a CD of software. It'll usually be the most basic, entry-level version of say Cubase or SoundForge, or good old free Audacity. All of which are fine for simple (and indeed often quite complex) recording. But if you want to spend some money, the entry-level Cubase or Logic will do you fine.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 08:17 AM

Frankly, you can't beat a decent reel to reel tape recorder!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Darowyn
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 08:39 AM

Oh yes you can.
Tape machines require constant maintenance and regular and expensive servicing, and the people who can do the work are getting very hard to find.
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum- I would not consider Audacity because it is too simple.
I earn my living by teaching studio recording, so I consider "industry standard" to be the criterion for choice of software and hardware.
At home I use an Eight bus analogue mixer with the group outputs running through an M Audio Delta 1010 into ProTools 7 on a dual 4.2 gHz PC.
There is a Joe Meek optical compressor on the mic input to the desk, and a passive DI box for guitar. Mics include SM57, AKG3000, and JM47, plus more expensive ones that I can borrow.
I also use a CME keyboard to control MIDI, with the sounds coming mostly from Reason, though I still occasionally use Roland D110 and EMU Orchestral Outboard Synths.
If I were starting from scratch now though, I'd probably go for a Mac,
a good modern automated interface, like the Control 24 and Logic 8.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: matt milton
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 08:56 AM

...plus a decent reel to reel tape recorder is likely to cost you more than going the PC/Mac route these days. Unless you're talking cassettes...

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Darowyn
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 09:40 AM

If anyone wants a professional reel to real multitrack, let me know.
We have three doing nothing at work. There are two 16 track, 1"tape machines(one with a top celebrity provenance) and a quarter inch eight track that we have used as a doorstop for the past year (it's in a flight case, so it has not come to any harm as a result)
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:30 AM

Where are you located, Dave?

I am using a purpose-built PC, with 4GB memory and 2 hard drives, an 80 and a 400, with room for 2 more. I use a PreSonus FirePod firewire interface, which has 8 microphone preamps. 2 of the inputs can handle instruments, while all 8 can handle line level inputs. I also have a dbx two-channel compressor/limiter and a TC Electronic reverb/effects unit and a patch bay to connect it all together. The outboard stuff is housed in a rack case for portability and the PC part is in a rack-mountable unit for ruggedness. I have a selection of large- and small-diaphragm condensors as well as some dynamics for microphones.

For software I am using Cubase SX3, which has a steep learning curve, but a lot of power.

I wouldn't mind adding analog capability as well if I can do it inexpensively.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:37 AM

Simple enough, Bee?

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:47 AM

Straight into the computer, for the last decade.
Mac computer. Digital Performer software.
Works like a charm, and gives the wonderful illusion of being able to play and sing much better than you really can. (I love the ease of cutting together one good take out of 20 flubs).

Bonzo3legs - how's the upkeep on the donkey?

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 12:59 PM

Unfortunatly I have to agree with you! I have a Fostex VF80 as a notebook. I still have my old Teac 3340 - 6 inches from my feet as I type, but sadly no longer the workhorse it used to be. However, given such a machine up to spec, and the rediculously high levels at which I could drive it, I would be a happy man.

Does anyone build analogue processing gear? I have an ADA Flanger I built a few years ago with improved clock buffering, and modified for the SAD 1024 BBD chip - best sounding flanger I ever heard, it provides almost through zero flanging!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:06 PM

JimLad: "Simple enough, Bee?"... ack!

I'm just going to copy the whole thread and aim my research from there on what's available locally and what I can afford.

The new computer has, so it tells me, over 2000MB of RAM and a 320 gig. hard drive. Sound card is RealTek High Definition Audio - it's aimed at the home theatre market, I suspect, and has multiple speaker capacity, etc. - lots of etc. Husband went wild when he decided to replace the ten year old PC to surprise me.

I want to thank everybody who's contributed information - I am getting a good overview of costs and directions to go.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:16 PM

I operate a Mac -- I capture sound with two Shure 56 or 57 microphones which plug into an M-Audio OmniStudio USB, which transmits via USB to the computer where I capture the input using SoundStudio. I can also add MIDI and other tracks using GarageBand, which I have not even begun to make full use of. I smooth out the final cuts using the filters provided in Sound Studio. Occasionally I will use a program called SoundSoap to lean up older files with hisses and clicks or line noise in them, but in the current setup this is minimal.

This is a small desktop studio setup, which works very well for my purposes with really just two inputs from the instrument and voice mics.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:18 PM

All these people love to boast their equipment, but remember - it only gives your miserable performance better quality!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:59 PM

And you have to resist the impulse to use all your toys just because you can. But in moderation, you can get some really great sounding recordings.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 08:04 PM

BonzoTL, I am keeping that firmly in mind.

Some while back, I started a thread on what one's voice sounds like to oneself - mine sounded awful, frankly. But it already sounds better just with a better set of computer speakers, which gives me some hope. Baby steps, eh?

And...

(Cue mad laughter and sinister music) Ahahahahaha!!! Soon you shall all be forced to make polite encouraging noises after listening to my recorded cacophany!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:03 PM

Bee, you don't say why you want to record and that makes a big difference. If you desire pro sounding disks for sale you want, of course a top quality mike, soundcards, and good editing software. However if you just want to make music files to practice or rehearse you can get by much cheaper. The Audacity program is free for downloading and it is simple to use. On home computers the speakers are often crap, but you already have that covered. With a cheap mike you can make it sound pretty good for practice. Audacity records in wave format which can easily be converted to mp3's.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:34 PM

Sandy, you have me pegged entirely. I mostly want to practice, rehearse, and send a song or two to the family. However, I have several friends who are long time musicians within the local community, and a couple of them are really excellent. They are, however, pig-ignorant about computers. If they've recorded ever it's been on a cheap cassette machine. I'd like at some point to be able to casually record with them, maybe make up a community CD. These people are the free performers who play every benefit, every variety fund raiser, and every seniors or nursing home in the area.

My ideas about this are vague at the moment, since I only started thinking about it when I realised the computer capacity I have now on hand. I might try to interest the local heritage museum, with which i have strong ties. Farewell to Nova Scotia was first collected, and possibly the lyrics written (reworked from a Scottish poem) here.

I also just like to learn about what people use - I spend a lot of time around various musicians, and go to festivals when I can, several times a summer.

I had been remembering Audacity being recommended, and will have to see if it will run with Vista.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 01:28 AM

Okay Bee:
         To keep it really simple. Get yourself a $26 Karaoke microphone from Future Shop. Make sure that it has the 1/4" pin, not the three pronged XLR fitting on the end. Now buy yourself a 1/8" adapter so that you can plug it into your computer.
Download "Audacity" and Bingo, you're done. That's it.
All you have spent is $26, unless you already have a mic & stand at home. With this set up you will still be way ahead of anything you've had in the past & I'm sure you'll enjoy the results.
K,I,S.S.
Jim

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 01:32 AM

Bonzo3legs
"All these people love to boast their equipment, but remember - it only gives your miserable performance better quality!!"

All of these people stepped in to help.
Be nice!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: oggie
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 06:30 AM

Audacity does run on VISTA (well it does on my machine anyway)

All the best

Steve

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 08:42 AM

Excellent. Thanks, JimLad and Oggie.

And who knows, JimLad? I was well received the few times I've played and sang to an audience... if I keep it up, I might end up a geriatric star!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: jiva
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM

Hi

We've been recording to computer for a couple of years now. We always go for live takes - ie we don't lay down individual sources/tracks one at a time.

The software we use for recording is n-Track Studio - this allows multiple sources to be recorded simultaneously as individual wav files. We also invested in a good quality soundcard - the M-Audio 1010LT - which allows for up to 8 simultaneous inputs (2 inputs can be direct from microphone or instrument pickup, the others need to go via a device such as a mixer).

We record Val's vocals into channel 1 direct into the soundcard.
We record Jimmy's vocals into channel 2 direct into the soundcard.
We record Val's guitar into channel 3 via a small mixer, panned full left.
We record Jimmy's guitar into channel 4 via the small mixer, panned full right.

This gives 4 separate wav files (1 for each channel) - you can add effects (eg reverb, compression, etc) to these individual tracks if you wish. You can also alter the volume and panning of the individual tracks. When happy with it all you can also use n-Track to mix all the tracks into a single stereo sound file.

n-Track is shareware, but the cost of registration is minimal and we find it easier to use than the commercial more heavyweight software such as Cubase.

Regards

Jimmy & Val (jiva)
www.jiva.co.uk

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 12:33 AM

n-Track looks fine and at $64 is reasonably priced. Wouldn't recognize my Asio device but it's the same brand as your own so another 1/2 hour of footering would probably have got it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: harpmolly
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 02:01 AM

Francy--I have the MobilePre USB as well and love it. Granted, I'm pretty much an ignoramus in these matters, but it works perfectly for my needs (harp pickup and vocal mic).

I just ordered (today!) an Audio-Technica AT2020 mic, which was recommended to me by a friend as a great mic for the price. I'm very excited about it, and think I might try using it to record my harp as well as vocals. I love my harp pickup for gigs--it's practically feedback-proof--but for recording I've heard that mics give better acoustic sound.

Can't wait to play with new toys! Whee!

Oh, btw, I'm using a Macbook with GarageBand, which I know is fairly primitive but is more than enough for my needs and knowledge! I just want to make some interesting recording experiments at this point, more for friends and family than anything (and possibly as an introductory step to future professional recording projects).

Molly

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jan 08 - 05:00 PM

A folk club I know even records their guests on a computer!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 05:08 AM

I use a Mac with Logic Pro, external soundcard being a Motu with Gefell and AT mics.

Regarding reel to reel - analogue can sound great but 1 inch 16 track is NOT and never has been a professional format.
2 inch Studer professionally maintained is a different thing altogether BUT for most of us completely impractical. The rooms we record in are likely to have a much larger influence on the sound (not to mention the quality of instruments and their players).

Get real and get a Mac

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 05:17 AM

Just as a follow up - good home recordings of course can be made on was is modest systems. Audacity I have found to be good, but if recording acoustic instruments you are likely to get better results with phantom powered condenser mics rather than dynamics like SM58's and 57's. They are good mics just not sensitive enough by and large (though have got good sounds from dobro's using them).

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Brother Crow
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:19 AM

We recorded/mastered our debut album on a laptop. We used Sonar as the recording software, and a Mobile Pre as the recording interface.

Vocals, Mandolin and guitar were recorded with Rode NT1A microphones (two of them) and the Bouzouki was DI'd via a Zoom effects box 'cos we liked the sound. The album was mastered using Soundforge, CD Architect and Isotope Ozone.

You can hear examples of the recording on our MySpace - www.myspace.com/brothercrowfolk

There are things we'd do differently now...for example, we really need a small diaphram microphone to go with the 2 large diaphram mics we have - we'll probably get a Rode NT-55. This will help with the "sparkle" on the guitar...

We've upgraded our recording interface since the album was recorded, ready for the next one (which we're doing this spring). We've purchased an Alesis Multimix Firewire 16 - 16 simultaneous channels of recording.

I'd be happy to share our experiences if anyone has any questions.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Grab
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 08:30 AM

I'm currently using Mixcraft, although I'm frustrated by its current lack of support for MIDI controls. Thanks for the links to N-Track - that seems to do MIDI so I might give that a go.

I've got a Behringer DDX3216 16-channel digital mixing desk, which being digital will already do all the conversion stuff. It then goes into the PC via ADAT lightpipes and an RME Hammerfall 9652.

Incidentally, if you're looking for a mixer and you see a DDX3216 on eBay, really make sure you go for it. It's a wonderful piece of kit - just a shame that Behringer stopped production when it started getting old instead of doing a version 2 with Firewire/USB support. The design may be 6 years old, but there still isn't anyone making anything like it in the same price bracket. It's a huge gap in the market which no-one's filled. Tascam and a few others have 8-track recorders, but they aren't really geared up for live mixing, and they've got nothing above 8-track. There simply aren't any digital mixers available except for the Yamahas which are many times more expensive than the DDX3216 was.

Mics are my current big missing element. Got some SM57s for live stuff, but I need something better for recording acoustics. The Rode M3 has had good reviews - SoundOnSound reckoned it was a bit better than the AKG C1000 which is the other obvious choice.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 01:40 PM

Grab:
    Mixcraft 4 is available in its fledgling form with the improvements you're looking for.

http://beta.acoustica.com/

I think!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 01:47 PM

For those who don't have it, you have to download
Mixcraft 3
first.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Grab
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 07:40 AM

Thanks Jim Lad (here and on the Acoustica forums). I've signed up for the beta test now, so see what happens. In the section where they ask about your previous experience with software and testing, I've put something to the effect of "12 years as a software engineer, writing software for power stations, cars and mobile phones", so hopefully that'll get me through the technical requirements. ;-)

A PS on the recording requirements. If you're recording for demo or sale, don't forget that you'll need somewhere *quiet* to do this recording. Your spare room might not cut it - not just traffic and people making noise outside, but also central heating and pets/partners/relatives making noise inside.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:24 AM

You could of course do something bizarre and use a recording studio that would have the probable benefit of an engineer that knows what he is doing.

Seriously though - recording acoustic instruments well is an art and science that takes a long time to develop.

Just cos you gotta puter and some software doesn't mean you can produce something that people should pay money for.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 10:48 AM

I work in tandem with the studio.
Do my recording at home and where necessary, take my tracks to the studio for professional mastering.
This thread started out with someone asking how to do a decent HOME recording on her computer.
That is what we're addressing here.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 01:23 PM

Me too Jim Lad


Just thought I'd remind everybody that this is a difficlut thing to do well, and put a word in for the professionals

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 01:58 PM

Thanks MK: Obviously we're in complete agreement but we've drifted a fair way from Bee's question and I'd hate to scare her away from what can be a Fun experience.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Nick
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 03:19 PM

As noone has mentioned it you could have a look at Reaper which is a constantly developing piece of software with some excellent features. I chat to a sound engineer on another forum who is well impressed with its features.

It's uncrippled shareware - "REAPER is provided with full functionality, and will not expire after any period of time. We trust that you, the user, will obey the license agreement and purchase a license if use continues."

Supports VST, VSTi and DX plug ins and deals with midi etc

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 05:16 PM

I ain't a-skeered yet, Jimlad!

I think my next step is to go visit the music stores in Halifax, see what's there, and talk to a couple people there. But all the tech-talk in this thread has been good, it's interesting stuff. I'd love for someone to explain a few terms as they go along (else I'll have to look 'em up myself, y'know: horreurs!). Example:

"I also have a dbx two-channel compressor/limiter and a TC Electronic reverb/effects unit and a patch bay to connect it all together. The outboard stuff is housed in a rack case for portability and the PC part is in a rack-mountable unit for ruggedness. I have a selection of large- and small-diaphragm condensors as well as some dynamics for microphones." - jeffp

This reads, to me:

"I also have a burbleburble and a TC Electronic reverb/effects unit and a burble to connect it all together. The outboard stuff is housed in a rack case for portability and the PC part is in a rack-mountable unit for ruggedness. I have a selection of large- and small-burbleburbles as well as some burbles for microphones."

But I'll learn!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 05:31 PM

He's got some portable gear that ain't tied to his computer, including some effects that plug in (rather than use the software effects) and some nice wee mics. for instruments.
There's a great shop for acoustic instruments up past the Uni but that's not the place to go for this gear.
That other one, downtown, the big one...close to the library.... that's the place. I saw a Tascam in Tom Lees today that comes with the microphone, for just over $200.
I've had a week of impending migraines. Lucky if I can remember my own name right now!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 09:09 PM

"patch bay"

A 'box' that uses wiring cords to route signals, one at a time each by a seperate cable, between a set of outputs and a set of inputs. The 'box & cables' these days may be real for analogue signals or 'virtual' - simulated in software that usually works for digitised (or analogue converted to digital) signals.


"dbx two-channel compressor/limiter "

dbx - it's easiest to look that up on Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dbx_%28noise_reduction%29

2 channels - obvious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

also usefully read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_War

All you have to do is copy and paste the links...

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Bee
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 10:26 PM

Thank you, gentlemen.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:51 AM

Hey Bee, I keep it pretty bare bones, I have a Samson C01U USB large diaphragm condenser mic (about $90 from Amazon) that plugs directly into a USB port. I use it with free Audacity software to record tunes by friends that I want to learn and occasionally make pretty decent multi-track recordings with it as well. I'm looking into getting a Rolls GCI 404 audio interface ($100 from Zsounds) so I can use my analog mics and go in direct with amps as well and put vinyl to CD.Good luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 07:40 AM

GUEST,van lingle:
                Save your money, Bud. I have the Rolls GCI 404.
Complete waste of space. Far too noisy and unreliable. Unless you're going to keep it external then you'll need to shop around for the right fittings and probably modify the housing to fit in your tower. Trust me. It's garbage.
The Samson sounds like a good idea though. They get great reviews.
As for your mics... Until we learn to talk Digital, they're all analog.
The Samson has a built in audio interface which converts the signal to digital
You can buy an Audio interface cheaper than that Rolls and plug your mic. into that.
"Line in" is good enough for the vinyl. I couldn't get my Rolls to handle that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 08:47 AM

Thanks Jim.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 09:03 AM

I bought the Lexicom Lambda and I'm not too happy with it. It seems to generate a lot of random noise such as crackling and popping and sometimes distorts and cuts out, for no reason that I can figure. Other users with Vista have also reported some problems. I haven't had it for that long and intend to keep working with it - perhaps I'll work it out - could be I'm doing something wrong. It came with a 'light' version of Cubase and I'd prefer something simpler like Audacity, but can't get Audacity to work with the Lexicon.   

And I agree about the benefits of going to a studio,with a computer you can get a pretty good sound - but a good studio and an experienced audio person can make it a lot better!

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 11:08 AM

maryrrf
the crackling and popping is almost certainly to do with buffer settings and sample rates or drivers etc.

If you don't know what any of that means its sometimes worth contacting your local college who prob do music technology courses - don't go on one, just contact the tech guys or tutors who work there and for an hour or 2's pay they are normally glad of the extra work involved in coming to sort it out for you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: Darowyn
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 11:42 AM

"don't go on one, just contact the tech guys or tutors who work there"

Are you trying to do me out of a job?
Go on a course, you can spend five years there if you go from basics to degree level.
At the end of it you will be able to speak sound-techie Martian just like all the people on this thread that you can't understand. You'll also be making good recordings.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM

OK go on one

Subject: RE: Tech: Recording on Computers
From: mattkeen
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 12:52 PM

Seriously - I assumed that that the poster may not want to go into it that deeply.


I did - and worked in studios from 1985 to 1995