Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs

Subject: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: GUEST,Muskrat
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:07 AM

Hi, have any of you guys ever Transferred tapes To CDs ?

I am no wizzkid on a computer so any help at an elementary level would be wonderful.

Great site.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:10 AM

There have been threads on this topic before.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:45 AM

Muskrat:

Look around at the earlier threads on this topic. Basically you need to connect a patch cord from the sound out from your tape recorder to the sound in on your computer. You can get fancy and use a USB adapter such as the iMic which allows you to use the USB bus rather than the sound-in plug on the computer.

On the computer, you need some kind of sound capture and edit software such as Sound Studio, Amadeus, or a number of others.

What you basically are doing is capturing an analog sound stream and converting it to a digital file. You do this by playing the tape into the computer and recording that input into a sound file. You can save the file as an AIFF, WAV, MP3 or other file type depending on the software you are using.

With tapes, there's no way around having to play the tape to get the sound out -- tapes by their nature are serial-access only.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:11 AM

I refreshed the following thread:

Tech: recording onto computer from cassette

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: GUEST,Muskrat
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 05:54 PM

God I have just read the other threads you guys put up, I am as confused as ever ! Clearly there is no simple way around this yet. Maybe someone will product a double deck machine to do it for a thickhead like me.

Again thanks for your help, will just continue with my tapedeck.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 06:11 PM

In fact, there ARE machines which will play LPs and make MP3s from them...then it is possible to make CDs from those. That info should be in those threads.

No, it is not dead simple...the formats are so different that it takes several steps.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 06:27 PM

Bill's right -- they do make a record turntable that plays directly to USB; so if you have good sound-capture software it's a snap. I don't know about tapes, though.

But it really is not that hard. You just set it up playing and capturing and come back in time to save it off at the end of the side, or cut. Be careful about storage capacity so you aren't crashing your hard drive by over-filliing it -- e.g. more than 75-80 % of capacity, roughly.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: open mike
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:24 AM

try www.dak.com for help..Drew has info and equipment--very affordable.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:45 AM

There is an expensive fairly recent single unit that will do 33/45 but not 78 record direct to CD - Sony or TEAC - think it must be mentioned in one of the other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 03:36 AM

Before copying LPs, clean them if they're a bit crackly, with a bowl, very lukewarm water, a touch of washing-up liquid, and an old toothbrush or a soft clean cloth.

Why don't previous threads come up automatically - always seems to be arbitrary.

Amos, it's easy when you know how.

For those of us who don't know how, however,........

The following is a heartfelt plea from we slow-on-the-uptakes.

At work, I teach people my job. I sometimes start the training by inviting trainees to do what I'm going to teach them. The occasional jaw drops. Then I say,

"I'll teach you now,it'll be confusing, it'll get easier, finally it'll be boringly easy. When you get to that point, just remember this one, when you didn't know where to begin."

people in any field tend to forget what they've learnt to the point where they've forgotten what they've forgotten.

I have that problem with computer manuals, and chess manuals, and introductions to art music. All the compilers have forgotten what they've forgotten. And then think people who are struggling at the beginning are stupid.

there was a sketch i saw once by an old English comedian , Jimmy James, in which he's explaining how you prepare potatoes. He tells his sidekick,

"There are four stages. Put the potato on the board, slice, and into the bowl; on the board, slice,bowl; board, slice, bowl. See?"

The sidekick (what was that tall,lanky bloke called?) says,(like a computer learner,

"But that's only 3 steps."

James replies, exasperated,"Well you've got to get the potatoes first !!"

manual writers can be like that. 'Well,of course you should have..........................already.'


    best wishes mon ami


Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 05:08 AM

Got this in my e-mail today.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 10:14 AM

"Why don't previous threads come up automatically"

Because Joe adds them in manually.

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 01:40 PM

autolycus - In this ongoing problem of explaining complex stuff, both sides have some responsibility.
It is true that some 'explainers' and manual writers leave out steps that 'seem' obvious to them, and often use technical terms without defining them...etc.
But it is also true that some folks make the problem harder by making little effort to examine how stuff works until they suddenly NEED a specific bit of information....and then beg for someone to write a step-by-step manual for their specific concern with no errors or 'confusing' extraneous information.

so...I am going to preach a bit. Naturally, you may ignore what follows....but maybe it will help someone someday. But I don't know what to say to those who cannot "get the potatoes first" without having it written out.

I remember getting my first VCR and delightedly poking around its buttons to see what they did....beyond just sticking in a tape and hitting the 'play' and 'record' buttons. Yes...*I* learned to set the clock, and was able to get the idea of what was required to set VCR clocks, so that I could usually, with a little poking, to set ANY VCR clock without the manual.

   Similarly, when computers came in, and I was presented with all these 'programs' with words & buttons and jargon in the manual, I poked at the menu buttons to see what dropped down, and TRIED some of the more obvious buttons to see what they did. I usually discovered all sorts of useful tricks!
   Then, I looked around the internet/WWW, assuming that there were folks who know more than I did who discussed these things and answered questions....and I found them....everywhere. So I picked a few and 'hung out', often not even talking - just reading.

Now I am still not a technical expert...I can't write programs, I can't do complex editing and/or installing of components....but I know enough language to "know what I don't know" and thus, where to LOOK and more important, how & where to ask a question.

It's very much like driving a car....I can't take an engine apart or do welding or body work, but I can DRIVE almost any vehicle, and I know what to LOOK for under the hood when needing to refill various fluids...and more important, I know where to find the hood latch, so I can even look!

The short version of all that is "Look about and read a little bit, and poke at the buttons, even if it is not something you need immediately...and get familiar with some terminology so you know what to ash, or put INTO a search engine when you suddenly need information.
   

Ok...end of preaching....and yes, I still agree that that those who DO write manuals need to remember to say "first, get some potatoes."

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 01:53 PM

which variety of spud ??? ...


BTW.. that budget priceUSB cassette looks quite convenient & usefull;

but i wonder if the audio quality or the Tape Heads & transport mechanism
is good enough for more 'critical' semi-pro requirements..

eg.. archiving the sort of material us lot are mostly concerned
with conserving..

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:20 PM

I sure wish they had developed those USB tape & LP converters earlier...before a lot of us had invested in CD replacements for LPs and tied up our budget in other stuff.

I have a combination Record player, tape recorder, CD player that I bought simply because my last record player was dying....but this thing will only put LPs onto tape...and that's no goal. Now I drool over a USB LP-direct-to-MP3 player...but space & money...*grumble*

Subject: RE: BS: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Genie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:25 PM

Punkfolkrocker, I think it depends a lot on your purpose in "digitizing" your inventory of music (or whatever's on your tapes and vinyl).   CDs, mp3s, etc., take up a lot less room and make organizing your library and finding things a lot quicker and easier.   So, for me, if my main reason for keeping a recording is for access to the tune, arrangement, lyrics, etc., I don't need the highest quality sound capturing equipment.      If it's a tape or record I want to listen to, I'll probably get as good or better sound by playing the original.

Digitizing the library is also a safety measure lest the original tape or record be damaged or lost.

But if I have a piece of music that I want to digitize without losing sound quality, I'll probably pay a professional - who has state-of-the-art high tech tools - to transfer my tape to CD.   The professionals may even be able to "remaster" my original to take out things like tape hiss or record scratches.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:33 PM

If we are keeping our potatoes musical AND folky, I would go for Maris Piper.
Quack!
GtD.
p.s. - Muskrat - If nobody else does so soon, I might find time to do a simplified guide for you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:41 PM

Thanks, Foulstroupe.

Thanks, Bill, abdolutely take your point - i'm banged to rights, and you're spot on.

Gpfrcr - ILOLASAE    -    er and smiled and everything.

      grateful Ive

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:45 PM

We have so much posted on this, that it looks like a very complicated process. Basically, you just

1. plug the old media source into the "line in" jack of your computer
2. use some sort of software* to record a master on your hard drive
3. record from that master onto a CD or whatever

So, as autocyclus explains, that's only three steps.

But then there are all sorts of tips to make better recordings, and that's what fills up the space. I count 27 threads I've put in the crosslink group for this topic.

I like to make a master that's as accurate as possible a reproduction of the original - hiss and pops and all. Then I use filtering software to take out the extra stuff. Some purists don't filter at all because they seem to fear losing something from the original, but I can't bear listening to noisy CDs like that.

It is a real pleasure when you can bring old recordings back to life. I had always wanted to hear the recordings of Robert W. Service poems, set to music by Debby McClatchy. Her master tapes are mostly shot, but she let me borrow LPs of her albums, and I remastered them onto CD. Now she's selling copies of my remastering work to people who want her old albums. And yes, she does a great job with Sam McGee, Dan McGrew, and Blasphemous Bill.

My new computer has input jacks in the front, so now I don't have to pull out the computer and find the "line in" jack any more - but I've been too busy lately to bother recording anything. The back-end inputs had one great advantage - they forced me to dust behind the computer occasionally.

-Joe-

*Roxio and Magix have low-priced software that does a good job, and I'm sure there are many other packages that do well.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Genie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 03:02 PM

Joe, my song that's on the Mudcat CD Sampler: Strawberry is but one good example of the down side off using non-music-specialized software for copying from a tape and trying to the the tape noise out.   Amos is very tech savvy and has a lot of fancy computer bells and whistles, but he didn't have a professional sound studio at home when making the Mudcat CDs, so generally the contributed songs that were already in digital format came out sounding much clearer than those that had to be transferred from tape. In the case of my song, you can hardly tell what the lyrics are because so much of the "highs" was lost in removing tape noise.   That is in no way a criticism of Amos, who did a wonderful job on the Mudcat CDs.   I think it was either keep the tape noise or sacrifice some sound clarity.
I think to remove tape noise without sacrificing things like the vocal and instrumental high frequencies probably takes more sophisticated (and more expensive) equipment than most of us have, even if we are capable of producing fairly decent in-home recordings or copying and duplicating CDs.

If I'm wrong and there is some very affordable hardware and software that will let us amateurs do that kind of tweaking and remastering on our home computers, I'd love to know where to find it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:33 PM

Joe, you left out where the potatoes came from and what dort they were.

Apparently someone needs to know   :-,


    Ivor

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:57 PM

Just a minor grumble...in previous threads on this topic, I've commented on how satisfied I was with Magix's Audio Cleanup Lab 2005 (which I think is really a 2003 version). Unfortunately, I've had to get a new laptop, which came with Microsoft Vista, and the new OS and old program are apparently incompatible. The new version is allegedly "in the mail", so more later, maybe.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 07:54 PM

The problem of copying a tape is a different one than the problem of cleaning one up if it is hissy of noisy.

You have an analog flow of electrical waves coming out of a tape player on copper wires.

Your challenge is to convert a chunk of them into a digital "file".

Your software does this for you.

That the most fundamental description I can think of.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 01:00 AM

Just as Amos says. A freebie program called 'LP Recorder' will digitise the signal from the turntable, making a file that will burn to CD by whichever program came with the burner. It also tells you how long in minutes and seconds the file is. By using the pause function, you can have both sides of the LP as one file, just as you would with a tape recording.
This is not 'making CDs', just recording to CD as you would to tape.

A very cheap turntable with built in pre-amp is the Optimus LAB 1100.
I can't fault the sound, and it has a diamond stylus.

One trap I've found. Don't stick labels on cheap blank disks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Genie
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 01:37 AM

[[Gurney: One trap I've found. Don't stick labels on cheap blank disks.]]

Are you saying one should always spring for the "archive quality" CDs when transferring from vinyl or tape to CD for music?

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 01:57 AM

Art, I remastered Debby's LPs with Magix's Audio Cleanup Lab 2005, and I liked it very much. When I got my Vista computer, I bought a Roxio recording packsage because it was the one that Fry's had on sale that week. If Magix sends you a free replacement Vista version, let me know - so I can ask them for a free replacement, too.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 05:17 AM

Fascinating info. tho' it reminded me of when I bought a new pencil, only to find it wasn't compatible with my existing paper.


    Ivor

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:43 AM

Joe, Magix ACL works fine with my Vista system, apart from not being able to hear what's being recorded! It plays back OK and does all the usual things and burns to CD no bother. Quite why I can't hear it when it's recording is a mystery to me, but I'm more inclined to think it's something I haven't done, like enable a tick box somewhere.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:55 AM

The record-volume controls didn't work when I loaded ACL-2005 on the new computer (with Vista). I ordered ACL v.12 from Amazon for $39.95, with free shipping. It costs the same direct from Magix, plus a shipping charge of $5. That version is "certified" for XP and Vista. TANSTAAFL, Joe.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:58 AM

Due to the absolute unreliability of digital media, I'm actually backing stuff up on cassette just so I might have something to listen to in 20-years time...

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:02 PM

"absolute unreliability of digital media"

??

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 08:20 PM

Genie, the reason that I wrote that is because I have had two instances of the label pulling away from the disk, and taking the reactive layer from the CD with it. I was left with a transparent disk! It starts with a 'bubble' that sounds as a crackle, and when I investigated, the CDs were obviously going to get worse.
They were middle-priced blanks.
Sorry, I don't know the customary term for the silver layer that takes the information.
Of course, I don't know if the adhesive of the label is at fault, or if the layer on the CD is, or if it is a reaction between the two.
I've started to write on the CD with a specified pen, and treat the back of the CD as gently as I do the front.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 09:17 PM

Yes, Sedayne, those cassettes we recorded twenty years ago all sound just great!

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: johnross
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 01:25 AM

Making copies of tapes onto CDs can either be very simple or extremely complicated. If you just want to make audio CDs from pre-recorded cassettes, it's pretty easy. But if you are working with original master tapes that you want to preserve for an archive, or maybe for release, that's a whole 'nother kind of project.

I make part of my living preserving and restoring old tapes, mostly from festivals, concerts and live radio broadcasts. I'm also working with the professional organizations that are developing standards for digital audio preservation. At that level, there are a bunch of important technical issues related to both analog playback and digital transfer and storage.

But assuming that you just want to make copies for listening, the easiest method is to buy, borrow or rent an Audio CD recorder (a decent one costs maybe $400-500), and plug the output of your cassette player into the input of the CD recorder. Follow the instructions in the manual for recording from an "analog" source.

Before you copy a tape, use a cotton swab (q-tip) and some alcohol to clean the heads on the cassette machine. The heads are the little cubical things that read the magnetic information on the tape--over time, some of the oxide and other gunk from the tapes rubs off onto the heads and interferes with clean playback. While you're there, clean all the other metal and rubber parts that come into contact with the tape.

If you don't have a CD recorder, you can use a computer with a CD burner. Connect the output of the tape player to the input of your computer's sound card, and use a program such as Audacity (it's free from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) to record the contents of the cassette onto your hard drive. Set the Bit rate to 16k/44.1 and save either the whole side of the tape or each individual tune as a .wav file. Then use the "Burn" feature in Windows Media Player to copy the music to CD.

If the tape is noisy or if you want to edit it, you can either use some features in Audacity or one of the other programs that people have recommended in this topic to clean it up before you burn the CD.

This may sound complicated, but it will be easy after you have copied one or two tapes.

Oh, and one other thing: cassettes can have problems. If the pressure pads have come loose or have been lost, or if the tape is broken, you'll need to repair the cassette before you play it. Usually, that means taking the tape out of the cassette and putting it into a new shell. Handle the tape very carefully to make sure you don't end up with a rat's nest of loose tape.

If the tape squeals, or if it sticks to itself when you try to play it, the chemical make-up of the tape is breaking down. Don't try to play it, or you'll probably destroy it. It's possible to repair these problems, but it takes special techniques and tools.

Sedayne, twenty years from now, many of those "back-up" cassettes will have broken down, one way or another. And unless you buy a good cassette player today and put it on the shelf, you might not be able to play them, because there won't be any parts available to replace the ones that have worn out.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: johnross
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 01:31 AM

Oh, one other thing: That ION Audio TAPE2PC player looks like a good way to feed tapes into the computer (through a USB socket). I don't know how good the tape transport is, but for under $200, it's worth a look. You will still need a program like Audacity, but the ION box will probably be easier than a traditional cassette machine to use with a computer.

http://www.ion-audio.com/tape2pc.php

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: Genie
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the info, John.

And ROFL, Ivor.

Joe Offer, I like your idea of first making "a master that's as accurate as possible a reproduction of the original - hiss and pops and all" and then using filtering software to take out the extra stuff. As long as you have the original or a reasonable facsimile thereof, you can always play around with the "remastering" options later.


Do youse guys know which software is the best buy for Mac users?

Genie

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: johnross
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 08:20 PM

Genie, the next time you're In Seattle, bring that tape over here and I will copy it for you. I've got the equipment all set up to do what you want.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring Records And Tapes To CDs
From: GUEST,Sparkle
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM

A cheap and easy approach is to record from a personal cassette player - you just need a cable with a 3.5mm jack on each end to connect it to line-in on your sound card.

See also www.alpinesoft.co.uk/VinylStudio/guide.aspx for info on 'cleaning up' your recordings before burning to CD.