Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!

Subject: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

Sweet-voiced folkie heaven; the darling Kate sings the immortal Sandy's best song - it couldn't really get better.

It's only a verse and as a background to the latest episode of BBC 1's Jam & Jerusalem but it was there.

Maybe just maybe Kate will record it or include it in the next tour set list.

Nice one Kate, let's hope we get to hear it all.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:04 PM

Doh! - Should have said it was 'Who Knows...'

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:49 PM

Another potentially very enjoyable programme torpedoed by the Dawn French trademark character...

As for the song, I'm sure Kate will have sung the whole thing. There'd be the makings of a good soundtrack album for the programme, what with the opening credits and other stuff.

Subject: RE: !!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:47 PM

"Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny", not likely. Sorry, but that's my personal opinion.

Barry

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:51 AM

Barry:
Why be sorry if you wish to express your personal opinion.
I am not at all sorry to say that I totally disagree with you.
Both women were/are very fine singers in my opinion.

Paul

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:05 AM

Oh you mean Dawn French being a quite believable Rosie Bales,
and then of course there's Pauline Mclynn being Mrs Doyle from Father Ted
Sue Johnson, Mum from the Royal Family, etc.

Perhaps actors get a bit typecast because they have perfected the character and the audience like to recognize that character. The casting director will choose the actor who portrays their vision of performance required, and for me the cast works in "Jam and J".
Just stop moaning and enjoy the show, it's only telly!
Oh and sit back and wait for the CD of the soundtrack. Kate is already getting airplay for the title track.

Andy

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:30 AM

Kate has been singing this for a while..heard it on radio two a few times now so it must have come to the notice of the producers there. Nice song..well sung..in spite of what the anti-Kate brigade may come up with.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:43 AM

Good for Kate, and good for Kate's fans. Why shouldn't she sing whatever she wants?

I get fed up with this sacrosanct Sandy rubbish. If Sandy were here now I'm sure she would be perfectly happy that her songs were being sung and recorded by her contemporaries.

(Now, knowing Mudcat, I have to go through my words to make sure it is C & K proof ... oops, okay, I can't be 'sure' that Sandy would be perfectly happy, I just imagine she might be!)

:)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:05 AM

I was delighted with the whole episode, it's definitely good telly as far as I was concerned. Having Kate singing 'Who Knows' on the program was the icing on the cake for me and will have done the reputation of 'us Folkies' considerable good in being shown to a wide audience!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:06 AM

This'll put the pigeon amongst the cats... I can't stand her 12yr old's voice. Seems to me that more men like her than women, now why is that do you think?

Meow

I'll get my coat

Sal

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:38 AM

Mslemon - each to their own. I think you're wrong about the male/female split on her audience - then again I've actually been to her concerts whereas you clearly haven't.

Geogiansilver - Really? I'd never heard it before, you don't recall which R2 show it was on do you? I'd love to track it down and hear it in full

AlanW - I'm sure you're right, Sandy would have loved it

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:39 AM

stumbled across this the other day

Jam & Jerusalem

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:11 AM

Thanks for putting that link here JJ - very good and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Oh and Ms Lemon, I also loved Ray Davies singing the theme song Village Green Preservation Society too - and I don't fancy him I can assure you.
And yes, when I saw Ms Rusby the audience was about 50-50 and we all loved her excellent singing and the brilliant musicianship from the band.
Have you ever seen her in concert?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:33 AM

I wonder at the suitability of the song or the singer for the title music of the show.

Kate Rusby always has such a marked northern twang in her voice and that just doesn't fit a show set in the West Country.

The lyrics of the Kinks song are, I reckon, far more negatively mocking of "preservation society" types than the audience of Jam & Jerusalem are intended to be towards the characters.

I've been listening to Radio 2 a lot more lately (sign of old age ??)and the Village Green song is being played endlessly - at least once every hour - and I am getting sick and tired of it, hence my more grumpy than usual comments above ;)

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM

I really like it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:52 AM

"Seems to me that more men like her than women, now why is that do you think?"

Tripe.

Whenever I've seen Kate - and that's many times, be it solo or in the various combinations she gets involved in - the audience has always looked pretty much 50-50. Mrs. Fenswoman thinks she's fantastic, as do many of the female members of our local club.

Stow the sexist comments please Ms. Sourpuss, and get yer facts right.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:13 AM

Never seen Kate. I like her voice probably more on the Northeastern traddy stuff, but I have to admit that she does a good job of the VGPS and indeed she made a very good fist of Sandy's song too - it's a tough one to sing, I wish I had a penny for every mangled version I have heard in clubs.

Oh, and leave Ms Lemon alone, you vultures; she knew she was being controversial ("get me coat etc"), and anyway, she just voiced an opinion, c'mon... And she's my friend. And no, I haven't got the hots for Kate, Sally, as indeed I believe she doesn't for me :-).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:18 AM

Well we've had sexism and now we have racism (or regionalism) - a 'Northern' singer shouldn't be singing on a West Country show????? What next UK pass laws?

TBH this is getting silly and a thread about Kate singing sandy's best song has degenerated into Rusby-bashing, the green-eyed monster eh?

Anyway to return to the main point; anyone else heard KR doing WKWTTG before and if so any pointers as to which station and show?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:23 AM

Really like the VGPS - but with 'source material' like that you'd have to be rubbish to get it wrong. Look forward to hearing her tackling Sandy Denny.

Kate Rusby is someone who usually gets a real pasting on folk forums. Don't know why - she's not exactly the Great Satan. Although she's not usually entirely to my taste, its nice to see her getting some positive comments here. She's someone quite a few of my non-folky friends 1) have heard of 2) like and 3) own records by. Not sure what this means, but I guess she must be doing something right. More power to her elbow, then.

Sings in a northern accent too, which gets a thumbs up from me. I like the Arctic Monkeys for the same reason. Goes against the tendency for singers who don't want to sound american to end up sounding like southerners. Actual southerners, of course, are allowed to sound like southerners... enough.

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:25 AM

Sorry Rodge, think we cross-posted there.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:39 AM

I have nothing against regional accents or people from different regions - my comments were not "regionalist", Rodge and Nigel.

The point I was and am making is that it is not suitable, for the title song of a television show, to have the song sung in a markedly different accent from the place in which the show and its characters are set. Think way back for instance, to the TV show "When The Boat Comes In" - how ludicrous would that have been to have had the title song sung in an upper-class southern "Noel Coward"-type accent instead of Geordie ?? Exactly... That is my point. Suit the voice to the part, the song to the singer, the title song to the show.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:45 AM

No worries Nigel - it was Jeanie's post I was commenting on.

Like you I like the fact KR sings her own accent and it's good to hear non-southern accents on the airwaves.

Too many people (southerners?) seem to assume a northern English accent is somehow 'wrong', whereas Scottish or Irish is 'heritage' - I can only put it down to blind ignorance and simple prejudice.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:45 AM

Whilst debating why's & wherefores of Kate's singing voice - spare some time to listen to the lady whose voice inspired Kate in the first place - Sharon Fountain.... another Barnsley lass, and with a great voice and delivery of real PUNCH...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:47 AM

I just find it so bad for people to slag performers off publically.

If you like the performer, by all means shout it to the roofs.

However, if you don't like the performer for whatever reason, e-mail them privately and explain why. Don't do it in public like this. We all have our likes and dislikes, but to slag a performer off in a forum like this is IMHO in very bad taste and very bad mannered.

I am willing to bet that anybody that slags Kate Rusby off on a public forum, hasn't got 1% of her talent. Is that you. Would you like to be publically slagged off. I bet not.

Any way I'll get me Kate

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:50 AM

Look, guys, if you re-read my posts you will see that I am not commenting on Kate Rusby's voice/accent in general, but *specifically* about the suitability of her, or anyone else, singing with a markedly northern accent as the signature song for a TV show set in the West Country.

How about the signature tune of "Only Fools and Horses" (clearly set in London) being sung in a Glaswegian accent, then ? Yes - laughable. That's the point I'm making.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:02 AM

OK Jeanie I took you for another Rusby-basher (and these people really annoy me, fine to not like an artist but to try and suggest they're not 'proper' artists / only popular because they're not ugly is pathetic IMO) maybe i had you wrong.

However Jeannie would you have J&J without Sue Johnstone (a scouser) or Pauline McLynn?, actually I'm not sure any of the cast are actually 'west-country' - what regional limitations would you apply to such a series? west of Swindon?, Devon & Cornwall only etc etc.

Seems to me that's an unstainable point.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

I wasn't watching the programme, but it was on the telly in the background whilst I was looking up some info on the computer. I recall commenting to myslf that it was nice to have background music on a tv programme which was "folky" instead of the usual overloud electic stuff. At that moment I glanced up and realised that it was Kate and presumably her band performing live in the actual scene.
It was nice to note that the folk performers were there playing straight and not just put in so that some character could make a joke out of them. It wasn't the usual "let's throw rocks at the morris dancers" type of appearance. Kate and her band were probably the most sensible thing in the show. We could do with a bit more exposure where folk music is trated as something which should be part of life and not there to be mocked.
I never took to Jam and Jerusalem as a comedy, mostly because I found the characters and situations totally unfunny and over the top. It is packed with a cast containing some extremely talented actors who are being wasted because the script is poor and someone has the stupid idea that every character in each scene has to say something.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:24 AM

Hi Rodgethelodge......I guess I can't remember which prog it was on but it was one morning last week I heard it last....had to sit and listen to it to the end before leaving the car to drop shopping off at my daughters. Sorry can't be more helpful but it has been on at least three times to my knowledge.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:26 AM

trated ???
TREATED AS...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:32 AM

HI Georgiansilver, thanks for the pointers I'll see if I can track it down - it's not an album release so either a session recording or maybe (just thought of this) the B-side to VGPS (do they still have B-sides??)

Not that I'm old or owt :)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:39 AM

The action is set in a West Country village, but it could just as easily have been in the Yorkshire of Calendar Girls (which is clearly one of the inspirations for the series), so Kate's accent doesn't really clash. There is nothing particularly South of England about the WI.

My gripe about Dawn French's character is because in my view it just doesn't fit, it belongs in a different kind of comedy show. "Just stop moaning and enjoy the show" - the trouble is I think the show would be a great deal more enjoyable without this character, and I know I'm not alone in that. "It's only telly" makes as much sense as "it's only a song" or "it's only a play" or "it's only a meal". True enough, everything is what it is - but that's no reason to despise it, and see it as not worthy of attention.

As for "The Village Green Preservation Society" - I think this is much more affectionate rather than simply mocking, even in Ray Davies original sardonic version. Aware of the absurdity of the attitudes being listed, but in the last resort being on their side against the things they stand against. A good choice as a theme song.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:56 AM

Guest of 07.02 AM: Thanks for re-reading what I said and realizing that I wasn't "Rusby-bashing".

As far as the question you ask about the casting and setting, I think the whole show has been constructed in a rather woolly way. As far as I can see and read, it is just set in vaguely "the West Country".

I agree with Geoff - some good actors who have more than proved themselves elsewhere, dealing manfully (or womanfully) with a very weak script. The whole thing looks to me as if the casting happened before the writing - which never works nearly as well as the other way round.

Re. Sue Johnstone: Whether she is a scouser by birth/own speaking voice or not has no bearing whatsoever on the parts in which she, or any accomplished actor, is cast or can deal with. It shouldn't matter where they originate from. What matters is that they present the character (including the appropriate accent) believably, fitting the character they are playing at the time. You don't have to be a Cockney to perform successfully and believably in EastEnders, for instance (e.g. June Brown's own speaking voice is very different from her character).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:07 AM

'Guest of 07.02 AM' - that was me , forgot to type my name in.

You say 'As far as I can see and read, it is just set in vaguely "the West Country".' and I agree - so I don't see how that ties in with your comment about KR being inappropriate as she's from Yorkshire.

Isn't the show about ENGLAND, with incomers and local yokels just getting on with village life? With a scouser, two London-refugees, and Irish girl among the characters (and isn't that one of the main planks of the concept?) I don't see how having a Yorkshire-voiced theme can be inappropriate.

Anyway google is showing nothing for KR/WKWTTG - guess I'll have to bother Emma again.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:28 AM

What's C & K?

Yeh, vultures do thrive on Mudcat... at the risk of bringing 'em down on my head, I find Kate's voice very beautiful, yet cold and emotionless, so thus moves me not at all. Not slagging her off at all, she's technically fantastic, I'm sure, and pleases a lot of people. Vive la difference!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:30 AM

I agree with Lowden Jameswright. Sharon Fountain is one of the North's best-kept secrets. Judging by the dim view many folkies take of success, I reckon she's best kept that way. We've got her and we love her. 'Nuff said.

George, sorry to be a 'vulture', but it really does hack me off when people suggest that men's brains are in their kecks, and they only 'like' female singers because they're fantasising about getting them in the sack! :-)   
If your pal makes that kind of broad-brush, unjustified and unjustifiable comment, then those it's aimed at are surely allowed to respond.
I'd be a fan of Kate's even if she looked like the back end of a tram-smash. If that makes me a 'vulture', "Squawk, squawk"!
But you know I'm not like that really!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:45 AM

Rodge - it doesn't matter whether KR (or whoever sings the signature song) is "from Yorkshire" or not - it's the ACCENT used which is the point. Someone can be "from Yorkshire" (or "from Liverpool, Glasgow, wherever)...but that doesn't mean that in the context of a play or TV show they have to speak or sing in that accent, if the play or show is set *elsewhere*.

A signature tune or signature song for a play or series is the first point of reference for the audience. If I hear a signature song in a particular or specific accent, that is already telling me, as an audience member, before the first scene begins, something about what I am about to see. It needs careful selection and I think, on this occasion, the programme makers didn't make the best choice of song or accent in which the song was sung - which was my original point.

(i.e. Kate Rusby toning down her northern accent would have been fine. Just hearing it as a signature song suggests to the audience: "Ah, this is set in Northern England" - which it clearly isn't).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 09:23 AM

Backwood - you may not be like that, and it's good you protest you're not...and yet, I do agree with Sal that that is generally an attitude in the music industry. Why else did Michelle McManus get such an undeserved slagging and disappear from view the instant she won X Factor? she had a great voice, yet didn't fit the stereotype...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 09:51 AM

By the way, did anybody notice Andy Cutting superbly supporting Kate on melodeon? Absolute magic!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,squeezeboxhp
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 10:32 AM

whilst slagging of the (Yorkshire accent) of KR please remember that the Cawthorne Barnsley accent would sound as odd in Calender Girls   (Rylstone)as any west country accent, up here in the grim north we can tell easily within a few miles the area that the accent is from usually. Hull to Redcar is very different to the Keighley Todmorden accent of the same county and Leeds and Bradford virtually joined together are differentagain.

by the way i think her singing is great

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

Guest "Squeezebox" - in case your comment about "slagging off the (Yorkshire accent) of KR" is directed at me, please re-read my posts and you will see that I am *not* "slagging off" anybody's accents !

I agree with you about her singing - but I don't think it's best suited for this particular context (i.e. signature song of a TV series set in something the programme-makers vaguely describe as The West Country).

I agree, too, about the particularities of accents. "A Yorkshire accent" or "A West Country Accent" or "A Southern States Accent" means virtually nothing, and any actor/performer worth his salt will spend a long time training and practising to get the specifics within each broad group right for the particular town/district etc. of the character he is playing.

The programme makers have set "Jam & Jerusalem" in a vague "West Country". As McGrath said earlier on, it could just as well have been anywhere, but they have, for whatever reason, said that is where Clatterford is ~(perhaps so as not to be accused of copying Calender Girls too closely ?)

The whole setting, characterization and writing of the series is far too woolly: a vaguely created medium for particular performers, rather than a particular setting in which to then cast performers to suit.

Just my view on things...

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's toned up Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:44 AM

"I.e. Kate Rusby toning down her northern accent would have been fine"

No it wouldn't have been "fine", as you so delicately put it. An area or regional accent just that it characterises that particular person or person. As for confusing the viewers, that seems to say more about you than the Jam and Jerusalem audiences, it also insults the intelligence of the said viewers

"Just my view on things..."

Yes I think we know exactly what you view on "things" is

Charlotte (doesn't tone anything down for anybody)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM

Oops - Guest above was me.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:07 PM

Ruth! - How the chest?

TBH I thought you were going to croak during the op and be written out, glad i was wrongs and to see you're still around and even up to typing!

:)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:11 PM

Maybe the choice of actors, singers etc is making the statement that although the fictional setting of the show is somewhere in the South West it could just as easily be anywhere in rural England as the location is not pivotal to the plot.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:13 PM

"I thought you were going to croak during the op and be written out"

OOOOOH NOOOOOO!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

Ruth, is this friend of yours the same one who performed Sandy's music in a band named The Nerve...as in "of all the nerve!"?

Charlotte (humming along to Sandy Denny)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:30 PM

Driftin', but... Linde Nijland sings Sandy Denny is well worth hearing. Linde is a Dutch singer and one half of Ygdrassil.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:37 PM

No, Molecatcher. She's done the songs solo and with Fairport, but with no one else (to the best of my knowledge).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:48 PM

Sorry Ruth, thought you may have been speaking of Vikki Clayton, who, and I think it was at a Cropredy, put together The Nerve as a one offer to perform some of Sandy's songs..you mentioned the solo album and I immediately thought of Vikki's album, It Suits Me Well, which she recorded with Ric Sanders, Chris Leslie and Dave Pegg, among others.

For those who didn't know, and I was one till fairly recently, Vikki went on to perform with a band that could have only been described as almost-Fotheringay. It featured, along with Vikki on vocals, Jerry Donahue, Pat Donaldson, Gerry Conway and Doug Morter (replacing Trevor Lucas).
Sorry about the thread drift there....

Charlotte (still listening to Sandy)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:06 PM

I was talking about Vikki, actually - not as clued-up on that period of her career as I thought, obviously. She gave me the CD years ago, and it's some time since I listened to it. When we see each other we don't talk about music - we generally talk about clothes and hair and have a girlie bitch-fest... :)

She's emigrating quite soon, BTW - if you want to catch her before she goes, she's doing a few gigs around Leicestershire in coming months.