BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:53 PM

The other, famously supporting Spurs, Kevin has been conspicuously absent from this thread - is that because it's Lent, or because he's not reading below the line these days?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:24 PM

See, both is possible. nalopkt

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

I somewhat envy the man who would find it worthwhile to debate that it should be called "football" and not "soccer". The problems, issues and choices in his life must be small indeed for this to have any import whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

Boo give Big Phil the red card, ref.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Big Phil
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 02:25 PM

Who's bothered over Soccer. Overpaid namby pambies, the whole bloody lot of them. Wish they would ban it.

Phil*

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

Villan, The bookies are very rich on results like this, nothing changes the great uncertainty of sport, and rich bookies. I wouldn`t call myself a supporter of any team in the Premier League. I support my local County in Gaelic Football, that is a big enough test of my nervous system.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 07:33 AM

How did spurs get on yesterday?
How could you do that to a Villa supporter. We do not like Birmingham City winning, even against Spurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:55 AM

The goal was scored in the Charity Cup Final for Spurs against Man Utds Alec Stepney, a long punt up-field which bounced over Stepney`s head.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

As did Paul Robinson not so long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Schantieman
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:46 AM

Didn't Pat Jennings (another Irishman of course) score a goal once?

S

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:46 PM

Pat Jennings

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:32 AM

Villan, yes all class acts, I only seen McGrath play on TV, the others I seen for their clubs and countries.
Shackleton, Mannion, Finney, John Charles, and and and, right better stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:22 AM

Ah, you are missing a few

Bobby Moore
Paul McGrath
Peter McParland
Jimmy Greaves
Billy Wright
Ronnie Allen
Ray Barlow

I better stop

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:07 AM

Sorry to hear of the wee masters passing, he was one of my late brothers favourite players.

Here is my team of players that I saw playing in der flesh,and the clubs they were with at the time,
Banks [Leicester] Cohen ;Fulham] McCreadie [Chelsea] Blanchflower [Spurs] Hurley [Sunderland] Mackay [Spurs] Matthews [Blackpool] Charlton [Man Utd] Osgood [Chelsea] Law [Man Utd] Best [Man Utd], likely there were better players, but at the time i seen them play they left a lasting impression.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:51 AM

Mackay was the greatest tackler I ever saw. In hus first for Spurs, agin Man City if I remember aright, he won every one.

Harmer made more goals than you've had hot dinners, tho the others missed a lot of them.

He was a greater penalty-taker than Berbatov (and that's saying something) cos he tended to paralyse the goalkeeper into not actuallly being able to move.

I wrote to him just a few years ago and got a precious reply, from his home address, remembering what I remembered, like taking corners tapped to him up the goalline. Signed Tommy and addressed Dear Ivor. From my hero, grown-up hero!!!! Alas, he died last Christmas Day. RIP


Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:15 PM

Tommy Harmer the 8 stone wonder was a wee cracker, but Mackay was the greatest battler, he won games for Spurs with his courage and great football ability, I was lucky enough to see both players and Dave Mackay would be my first pick of all the players I have seen.
All a matter of opinion, keeps the pot boiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:08 PM

Mackay was great. Tommy Harmer the greatest.

   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:12 PM

Here's a page about Walter Tull, who was the second professional black ootballer, who played for Spurs back in 1909, and was later killed in the Great War.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:47 PM

Bert Trautmann was still playing for Man City in 1964 and was then probably the best-known footballer from outside the shores of the UK and Ireland playing in the First Division (and I'm not counting players born to services personnel). The most exotic that Forest ever got during that period was Flip Le Flem from Guernsey.

In terms of home-grown black players, don't forget Charlie Williams who played regularly for Doncaster Rovers during the late 1950s.

And the first black player thought to have captained an English team was the late Pedro Richards of Notts County (probably also the only captain to have spent his childhood in a rural village in the Basque country - see http://www.markhodkinson.com/pages/journalism_pedro_richards.htm for the full and very sad story of Pedro's life once he retired from football).

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:29 PM

There has been a wee drift in this Thread, but intersting, so all you Spurs fans there was only one player for me as the greatest Spur, Dave Mackay, out on his own.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:26 PM

Any old Cardiff City fans will recall a George Best playing on the wing, he was the first black player I recall,1946-47, he guested for Belfast Celtic during WW2.
I seen Delephena play for Middlesborough against Glenavon in 1951, the `boro were on tour in Ireland, in goals was Ugilino a Scot of Italian parentage, also on that team was the great Wilf Mannion.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:36 PM

I agree. This is exactly where football as a sport and with roots and related to place crashes into football as a manifestation of capitalism which is no respecter of national boundaries.

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:31 PM

Well the Villa are doing their best to have the future England team :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:17 PM

The point surely isn't that people from abroad shouldn't play, but that teams oughtn't to be made up entirely of players who've been bought in off the peg. There should ideally be a good number of players with some roots in the game locally, and with the club itself, and who've developed their skills within that setting.

I remember a cartoon once where the two teams were coming out to play and a manager rushes out saying "There's been a few last-minute transfers. All swap shirts with the other side."

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:08 PM

Thanks, ard.

I remember a few in the 50s, e.g.Bill Perry of Blackpool, who scored the winner in the 'Matthews' final, died a few weeks ago, and was a South African; and Lindy Delapenha of Middlesborough who came from Jamaica.

And from earlier times, Arthur Wharton, the first man of colour to play in the football league, at its very beginning.

    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Schantieman
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:00 PM

Villain - the UK is NOT the same as Britain or Great Britain. The official name of this place is, as McGrath says, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Hence Northern Ireland IS part of the UK but NOT part of GB.

Not sure exactly what makes "Great Britain" greater than just plain "Britain" though.

And then there's "The British Isles" which includes the bits which are NOT part of the UK - specifically the Isle of Man and (I think) the Channel Islands. And possibly the Republic of Ireland too, although I doubt if its residents would agree!

Up the Spurs!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 01:46 PM

I will send on your greetings autolycus, Norman was in goals for Portsmouth in the first official floodlight league game at Fratton Park in 1956 against Newcastle.
Not, so strictly speaking I wouldn`t associate players from the UK or Ireland `Foreign`, should we not say the European mainland, I can`t recall any playing for any of the Clubs I seen during my time in England, 1956 until 1969.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 12:10 PM

btw, clubs were transferring players, even between countries, before the Football League began in 1888. Spurs had one or more Scotsmen in their cup-winning team of 1901. So the root meaning of the clubs' names get besmirched long, long ago.

Norman Uprichard - there's a blast from the past, a name I knew well when I was starting out in football-following in the early 50s.

Best wishes to him, Ard, from a Spurs fan who may have seen him at White Hart Lane (Spurs' home ground) in the 50s.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:53 AM

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:29 AM

"he was British" Not so. He was a citizen of "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:44 AM

My old friend former Pompey `keeper Norman Uprichard would beg to differ, in 1954 he was on the princely sum of £20 a week with £2 as a bonus for a home win.
He is happy to see the present day top players getting their share of the money, a footballers life is short around age 35, the present day players would have enough to sustain them and their families to a life of luxury.
Fat-cat directors and shareholders will still have their noses in the trough, but the players won`t be travelling third class rail, as they did in Norman`s time.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:43 AM

Thanks for the link, McGrath. It was very stirring. The camera work was by Monet, was it not? I detect a strong resemblance to his 'Water Lilies.'

Lads, don't begrudge Geoff his grudge. It's minor and helps him get through the day. Always assuming it doesn't lead to 'football hooliganism.' But no Mudcatter would be that stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:55 AM

Life doesn't change much does it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:13 AM

Well Villan, the Directors in those far off days creamed the loot, footballers were on a pittance, so Danny boy helped himself in other ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:11 AM

No but he was British and finished up at Spurs, becuase as I understand it, he was a naughty boy with one of the Directors wives at Aston Villa and was sold to Spurs to get him out of the way. It was all kept pretty hush hush.
However Danny Blanchflower was an excellent footballer.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:15 PM

When Spurs won the double in 1961, the captain wasn't English.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:27 PM

LOL

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:17 PM

Of course you would Ivor :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:14 PM

Geoff, I forgive you (sic) everything for kindly giving a nod to the late great Tommy Harmer.

Up to the start of this season, in the Football/Premier League, Spurs record agin Forest is

P.104 W. 49 D.24   L.31 F.175 A.138

Forest are good, and I'll always admire any team that plays attractively.


The Villan, by the grim look on John Terry's face after the game, not even looking at who was giving him his medal, and the fall-out since at Chelski, I'd say the Carling still carries considerable weight. (And I would say that, wouldn't I?)


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:38 PM

The Carling Cup & FA Cup have been ruined by clubs not bothering to field their strongest sides.
They have been devalued and do not carry the prestige they used to.

So IMHO, I really don't know what all the hype is about. It would seem the only things to win these days is the Premiership or European Cup.

Up the Villa

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:33 PM

Ivor,

Spurs are only the subject of a very minor footballing grudge compared to others I might mention. I've long admired the way Spurs play the game and reckon that they share a common history with Forest of being teams devoted to passing football (apart from Arthur Rowe's 'push and run' period which sidelined Tommy Harmer). I can't warm to your team because, with several notable exceptions, you usually beat us.

Dick, what's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 05:58 AM

What is so unique about Spurs win is that the winning goal was scored by an English player, the premiership is now down to 37% English players.

The English Rugby team have gone to Tonga to recruit a winger, he is now
a naturalised Englishman, lets have those thugs off the street and on to the playing fields, otherwise your many sporting teams will soon be 100% foreigners.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Schantieman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:01 AM

I only favoured Spurs cos my brother and dad were Arsenal fans!

S

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 06:55 PM

My hatred of Chelski goes back to the time they became the first team from outside England to win the F.A.Cup since Cardiff in 1927.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 05:57 PM

Actually, much as I admire the victory on Sunday, I don't think my heart will ever warm to Spurs. Sorry, Autolycus, but it's hard to stop bearing a grudge!
Geoff,yes I am aware of that,and to think we both used to live in Nottingham,we both moved to Ireland, we both used to watch Forest,I bet thats pissed you off.
Grudges are best buried,life is too short.Dick Mileshttp://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:44 PM

Just as a matter of interest, Geoff, what do you get out of bearing a grudge?

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:14 PM

Here's why that link doesn't work: "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by The Football League Limited".

Shame. Anyway, here is a vid of the Spurs crowd going wild when the final whistle blew.
.............................

Arsenal and Spurs? It's a tribal thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:58 PM

Interesting thread.

Personally, I've never forgiven Spurs for a 9-2 defeat at WHL in 1962 (and I think Forest took the lead through Trevor Hockey, for whose very glamorous young wife I once cleared the garden during Bob-a-Job-Week).

And then I've never forgiven Spurs for kicking the sh** out of us during the 1966-67 season FA Cup semi-final, forcing Joe Baker to go off injured after ten minutes and Terry Hennessey to spend most of the game limping (two of our best players), thus ruining our chances of not only winning the cup but the league too.

I couldn't stand Spurs either before, during and after the 1991 Cup Final. Gazza should have been sent (rather than carried) off and the result would have been completely different.

Actually, much as I admire the victory on Sunday, I don't think my heart will ever warm to Spurs. Sorry, Autolycus, but it's hard to stop bearing a grudge!

Oh, and let's not forget that Arsenal's first shirts were a gift from Forest.

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:39 PM

Alan Gilzean's glancing headers.

   The reason for the antagonism?

   Some Spurs fans, (not me - I've never been an against-another-team type of supporter), remember that after the first World War (blimey, tsk), Arsenal got into the top division because their chairman pulled afast one behind the scenes, when Spurs had a better case for promotion. A pretty solid reason for griping if that's your bag.

   Secondly, Arsenal began south of the river, at Woolwich (a part of their original team name - how am I doing G-GEF? Hope your ungraciousness doesn't persist.). Subsequently they decamped to a ground in the same part of London (roughly N.E.). So Spurs fans also call them The Nomads. All in the best possible taste.

personally, I think in the last few years, Arsenal have played some wonderful football, and greatest respect for their recent achievement of being unbeaten in the league for an entire season.



Meantime, I'm still on a high , a sort I didn't even experience as a lad when I witnessed Spurs became the first team in the 20th century to win the League and Cup in the same season (a feat thought probably impossible at the time - Arsenal, inter alia have done it since).

And I'm pleased I've heard people say they enjoyed the game on Sunday, too. It wasn't a boring final as is often the way. Part of the Spurs thing demanded by the fans is to play attractively. A possible reason contributing to lack of success. Both is best.

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Tottenham Hotspur win Carling Cup
From: GUEST,Gilzean's Enormous Forehead
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:15 PM

For such a huge Tottenham fan I doubt whether Autolycus even understands my monicker!