BS: Paisley calls it a day

Subject: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM

The bullying old ranter has hung up his cudgel

And not a day too soon. He might claim to be a good Protestant, but for most of the last half-century he has been the incarnate antithesis of Christianity.

There's at least as much blood on his hands as on those of the Republican "terrorists" that he used to rant on about. If he'd accepted the original Sunningdale agreement as opposed to its present-day clone, we could have at least been spared three additional decades of bloodshed.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: irishenglish
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:04 PM

Thank fucking god! Spot on An Pluimeir Ceolmhar, that's been my exact feeling about the man for as long as I can remember. I have never called him Reverand, because he has not shown he is through his inflammatory words.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:06 PM

May he have a short retirement.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:54 PM

He ain't gone until May.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:03 PM

Better than July.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:04 PM

LOL

I hear and agree. Such a hate-filled man.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: redsnapper
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:20 PM

Good riddance to the old bigot.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: vectis
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM

About time too. How he was never jailed for incitement to murder I'll never understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Megan L
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 03:37 AM

Aye theres always two sides tae a story.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:13 AM

Damn!
I was hoping for something more.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:37 AM

His place to be taken by Peter Robinson, the man with the coffin lid smile,if anything,it will be found, Paisley is-was more accommodating, of the Sinn Fein presence.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 06:03 AM

Dervla Murphy wrote an excellent book about her bicycle travels through the north of Ireland, visiting and interviewing people on both sides of the divide, called A Place Apart published in ?Penguin paperbacks in about 1971. Murphy is a Catholic from Co. Waterford (who would be readily identifiable as such to Ulster folk by both her surname and her accent) and one of the things she set herself to do on this trip was to attend one of Paisley's services. It is FASCINATING reading, which I can't hope to do justice to by paraphrasing. Showing up wearing trousers rather than a dress earned her a bit of initial static, but basically the event passed without drama. What is interesting is her observations of her own psyche.

She writes that all throughout her journey in the north she had been meeting people from each camp, some with very extreme views and the means/will to back them up with hard action; and in every case so far, she had been able to communicate with them, see their side of it, and go away thinking Yes, they are human like me, I can understand their points even if I don't agree with them. Of course it must be borne in mind that she did not have a private audience with Paisley and only saw him from a distance at one of his performances. She says that before the service she had fully expected to walk out afterwards feeling the same broad-minded and generous things that she always did. But - this is as close to a direct quote as I can come using only memory but it's not far off - she left the building "convinced that I had just spent an hour in the presence of someone from the inferno".

That is strong stuff coming from anyone, but Dervla Murphy has met and spent grass-roots time with people all over the world, and her responses to them are always tolerant and liberal. To draw such a reaction from a person as experienced and widely travelled as DM really takes some doing. Her book is well worth reading as a historical document of its time and place, the consequences of which are still being felt today.   

I got a chance to listen to Paisley myself, on Desert Island Discs years ago, during the reign of Sue Lawley, because I was interested in hearing what he had to say for himself rather than for his music choices (which were ALL hymns, every one of them). Obviously, it's a public programme - a gig if you like - so naturally he's going to arrive with his lines well rehearsed. And he did. Lawley pressed him as hard as she dared without derailing her show, but nothing dented the smooth steel of his rhetoric (I'd love to see Paxman take a crack at him).

Predictable? Yep. I mention it simply because he was SO self-righteous, so pompous, so utterly convinced of his own holy rectitude that he seems to have abandoned any actual thinking long ago. It's like he was playing a well-worn record (his ninth desert island disc?) and any process of doubt and mental deliberation had about as much chance of survival as a drop of water on a hot stove top. This man not only believes his own PR, it's the only narrative that exists. So the human beings on the Other Side do not exist either, except as abstractions. (At least in his power days. He may have mellowed somewhat since then, perhaps from age but more likely from necessity.)

I read another account - I don't think this came from Murphy's book but can't say for sure - of a Catholic who had sneaked into one of Paisley's services and, after an hour of rousing hate-hymns and purple prose, said HE almost felt like going out into the street and bashing a ... [offensive slang-name for people of his own faith].

Listening to Paisley, when I can bear to, I must say that to save my life I cannot see what his spellbinding power as an orator is. To me he has always come across as an apoplectic old man with a deeply unattractive voice. But that's true of Hitler too. All you have to do is tell certain sectors of the population what they want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM

Paisley for Pope!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 07:11 AM

Ian Paisley was leader of Ulster Resistance, a movement responsible for the robbery of the Ulster Bank sometime in the 1980´s. They bought weapons from South Africa (police captured half the haul on it´s arrival into Northern Ireland)with the 2 million pounds they stole. Once the news broke they were involved Ian Paisley resigned from the movement.

So when he said he would not go into government with Irish Republicans until the Northern Bank money was returned and all weapons handed in, it puzzled me which robbery he was talking about !

He played a big part in sending a lot of young men to prison, winding them up with hate filled speeches. He also sent many to their graves. Why was he allowed to preach so much hate for so many years ?

He calls himself "Doctor Paisley" can anyone tell we what his phd is in ?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: kendall
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 07:48 AM

PhD...piled high and deep

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 07:50 AM

Paisley's use of the title 'Dr' derived initially from a 1954 'qualification' from the American Pioneer Theological Seminary in in Rockville, Illinois. Later this was somewhat legitimized by an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by Bob Jones University, a Christian college in Greenville, South Carolina. Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and, with Paisley, a leader in evangelical Christianity.

The British Centre for Science Education comments ....

'Paisley comes from Northern Ireland and our initial research suggests that the use of bogus degree titles there amongst non-conformist clergy in minor denominations is relatively extensive...

It's emerging that the European Theology Seminary (aka the European Theological Academie) is a source of what many would consider as diploma mill degrees.'

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Beer
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 08:24 AM

This should be a day of celebration in Ireland.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 08:26 AM

I think that he should join a strict Trappist abbey and spend the rest of his life in penance and prayer.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 08:31 AM

Him take a vow of silence??! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 08:33 AM

Just been reading the Pedants' thread. Let me re-phrase that:

Him??? Take a vow of silence??! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Grab
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 12:11 PM

Rapaire, I doubt he's got long enough for the penance he needs. God may forgive all, but there's plenty in Ireland and England who wouldn't piss on him to put him out if he was on fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: vectis
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:10 PM

Pass the accelerant and the matches.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: skarpi
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

it was about time that the old thinking way would past away .
I hope other will go same way and peace will hold in uncome future


ATB skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:51 AM

the late Lenny Bruce used to have this sketch - if Einstein had been from the southern states of the USA - there would be no bomb.

Einstein would mosey up and say - hi there y'all! Ah wanna tell y'about this here nuclear fission... Goddam! its really somethin'! Real hot shit!

And all the smart Ivy League types would say - go way you southern idiot! You nit wit!

I wonder how much the way he said what he had to say obscured his message.

The first folk club I ever went to in Brum was run by a guy whose Dad was an Orange man. He reckoned Paisley was fairly moderate comapred to his Dad's mates.

The Irish never grasp the full scale of English indifference to their politics. Most people couldn't wait for him to just shut up - the idea of trying to understand him never really came into it. he always seemed pissed off with us and accused us of selling him out. Selling him........most English people would have paid to have him taken away.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: DougR
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:03 PM

Bonnie: do you know if "A Place Apart" is still in print?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: DougR
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:20 PM

Bonnie: Never mind. I just ordered a copy from Amazon.com.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:31 PM

Paisley - is there a pattern to this?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:10 AM

It's a common misconception that the Romans provided special places where diners could go and make themselves sick in between each course of a meal. In fact, the so-called vomitoria were for another, altogether less revolting purpose, but there are certainly times when such facilities would be much in demand. Such as last week, when the tributes to the Reverend Ian Paisley began pouring in following the 81-year-old's announcement of his retirement.For Bertie Ahern, Northern Ireland's First Minster was a "giant" of Irish history -- fee fi fo fum, indeed -- who had "sincerely done what he believed was right". Former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, described him as a "man of great honour".

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown surpassed his own capacity for talking total rot by declaring that the DUP leader's "commitment and dedication to public service deserve our gratitude". There was something in there about Paisley's "immense courage" too, though by that stage most observers were surely feeling too nauseous to notice. Gerry Adams even said Paisley would be remembered "fondly". In the same way as the bubonic plague, presumably.

There were notable exceptions to the oozing treacle of tributes. Alliance Party leader, David Ford, was not going to make a fool of himself by pretending that the life of a man who had dedicated himself to systematically dynamiting the values of compromise in which the Alliance Party believed, could now be rewritten as a feelgood fairy tale. But the exceptions were exceptional precisely because they were exceptions. Most of the political and media comment was of such a sunny positivity that it made Balamory look like a work of Bergmanesque gloom by comparison.

That politicians would peddle this sycophantic guff on the retirement of one of their own is not very surprising. They all want the same meaningless tributes when they bow out. They're giving in order that they might one day receive. So when Adams says Paisley will be remembered "fondly", what he means is that he hopes he will be too -- that the poems and the peacemaking will loom larger in our memories than his early work with the Belfast Brigade.History, thankfully, is not as gullible as politicians might wish.

The myth which the tasteless tributes to Paisley are perpetuating is that one halfwaydecent decision in the last act of a man's life can redeem all the rest. It's a Hollywood cliche: the villain who turns hero right at the end and thereby makes amends for all the bad that went before.

If only it were that simple. Just because Paisley agreed to share power with his traditional enemies at the end of his political career, the previous decades spent sowing hatred and bigotry are not suddenly made all right. Quite the opposite, it could be said, in his case. The only reason Paisley mellowed in his 80s was because he had finally manouevred and schemed and bullied his way into a position where he and his ilk would dominate the political institutions which were being established.

He stopped because he got what he wanted. Where's the great nobility of heart in that? All bullies can be pacified if you give in to them, just as all violent extremists are "sincerely" doing what they "believed was right". Sinn Fein's "conversion" to democracy was on exactly the same terms.

Seen like that, the new shiny devolved Northern Ireland Assembly is not proof of their good will, but a symbol of their refusal to give an inch until their hunger was fed. What preceded this Assembly, it should be remembered, was not some terrible tyranny but a previous Assembly dominated by the centre ground SDLP and Ulster Unionists. Sinn Fein and the DUP connived to banjax that because it wasn't under their thumb.Gordon Brown might say that deserves our collective gratitude, but if he honestly believes it then he is living in a bigger fantasy world than Harry Potter.

It's how people behave when they don't get what they want which marks out their character. Judged on that basis, it's no wonder Sinn Fein and the DUP now get along so famously -- because what they share in common is that, whenever people said no to them, they could always be relied upon to respond abominably.

For half a century, Paisley's contribution to civil life in Ulster has been malignant and malevolent. His rhetoric was deliberately inflammatory. His actions were designed always to make rapprochement impossible. People died by the score because of his words. When he wasn't actively consorting with sinister masked men with guns, he was spurring more of the same on with bile spewed from the pulpit and the hustings.

Paisley thrived by bringing out the very worst, most un-Christian, qualities in those who followed him -- their heightened sense of pride and grievance and sectarian resentment; their indifference to the sufferings of anyone who wasn't part of their Orange tribe.

Here is the ultimate irony. For almost his entire life, Paisley was a vile caricature of a man of God whose contribution to life in Northern Ireland was overwhelmingly negative. His words made people unhappy and afraid, and they were right to be afraid. Because of him, Ulster's agonies were massively more painful to bear and harder to end than they ever needed to be. But now it is those who refuse to join in with the disgusting tributes to the hateful old monster who are pilloried as hard-hearted and unforgiving. Apparently we are now the problem, and saints Paisley and Adams are the answer to Ulster's prayers! Orwell couldn't have devised a more damning perversion of truth and language than that.

Well, so be it. As the big man said: No surrunder. Ian Paisley was a repulsive individual, and nothing, nothing, nothing will ever make amends for it. Especially not the absurd sub-Ruritanian pantomime that is the Northern Ireland Assembly.

That's not Paisley's real legacy, anyway. His ultimate legacy is the condition of the Protestant working class in the North who followed this ranting Pied Piper down a cul de sac for 40-plus years and are only now realising there is no way out and no going back. While Catholics were using the North's peerless education system to clamber out of poverty and overcome discrimination by their own efforts, forging a whole new confident and successful middle class, Protestants were being corralled by their own leaders into a ghetto from which it looks sometimes as though they will never emerge.

These are Ian Paisley's people. This is what he did for them. Truly, is there no beginning to the man's achievements? That they still regard him so warmly, or think that they owe him anything except a collective "thanks for nothing", is their tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:27 AM

Great analysis Guest. Well done!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,even minded
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:18 PM

weelittledrummer

you obviously know as litte as the guest above.

Sure the man had a hatred of people trying to murder his countrymen,
is that not what Afghanistan is about. Fighting terrorist SCUM.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

Even minded, go boil your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:41 PM

Yes, that's what Afghanistan & Iraq is about. Paisley & Bush should both burn forever for their crimes against humanity & the troubles & woes they've both heap upon the human race.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:25 PM

even minded???????? You are an ignorant lout, just as Paisley is, was, and ever will be. He is simply the modern day figurehead for the historical, and hysterical, orange card that has been played successfully generations by the moneyied interests of the North of Ireland. This dolt was used, just as others had been for generations. This is the last vestige of British colonial usurpation of the assets of the Irish people. When the Irish workers of Belfast, and around Ireland started to realize they had more in common than the differences of how they prayed, the spectre of Papism was raised and used as a wedge. This has been successfully used to drive the interests of the working class into factions for years. The carrot and the stick requires both carrot and stick to work. As long as the economy of the area was based on industry, the bosses could use the carrot of discrimination in favor of the Protestant workers in areas of employment and housing, and the stick of discrimination against the Catholic workers in the same areas to keep the money coming in. Over the years they propped up this big mouthed, crude, and evil man who was only too happy to stand up like an evil mannekin shouting "No Surrender" to the Papist evil croppies. And while all this smoke was in the air, this small minded bigot didn't see that the economy changed and that the people best prepared to cope with that change were the ones that had availed themselves of the education system and could step in. And make no mistake about it, things have changed. Between exposure of the evils of this goon, the birth rate, the education system, and simple economics, Paisley's former benefactors and masters are gone.

So disappear into the sunset, you evil old bastard. Good riddance to you, and when you die, expect red to be worn at your funeral, and dancing to be done in joy. I hope its cardinal red.....just like the Bishops wear. And I hope, in your passing, you experience the misery you put on so many Catholic kids.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 08:12 AM

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2003/12/02/paisley.jpg

Non-selective Googling (i.e. only his name with no loaded buzzwords) brings up a lot of interesting into. F'rinstance, right near the top:

From
http://www.geocities.com/athens/atrium/1678/ian.html

ON CATHOLICS:

        •        In 1956, Rev. Paisley abducted a 16 year old girl, Maura Lyons, who was in a dispute with her parents about joining the Free Presbyterian Church. He attempted to use her as an anti-Catholic propaganda stunt and would not inform police where she was. Paisley was later ordered in court never to go near the girl or her family again.
        •        In 1959, the Presbyterian Moderator of Ireland was on tour of churches and visited a Catholic priest, the Rev. J. Wilson, whom he had befriended. Rev. Paisley described this act of human friendship as an act of "blasphemy".
        •        In April, 1958, Rev. Paisley sponsored Juan Arrien, a Spanish ex-priest, who performed exaggerated "mock masses" as part of an anti-Catholic road show. When Fr. Murphy of Ballymurphy protested that a public facility was to be used for this sectarian, anti-Catholic show, Rev. Paisley responded in his magazine, Revivalist, "We know your church to be the mother of harlots and the abomination of the earth."
        •        On June 17, 1959, at a Belfast rally, he publicly chastised "the men of the Shankill for allowing papists, pope's men, and papishers" to live on the Shankill Rd. Angry crowds went to the addresses called out by Paisley, burned out the occupants and looted their homes.
        •        As religious ecumenism was progressing between Churches and Religions during the 1960s, a Catholic priest actually preached in Westminster Abbey and Protestant ministers were welcomed in Catholic churches, Mr. Paisley was -- and still is -- wild with recrimination and bigotry at any intra-religious experience or sharing of ideas.
        •        In keeping with the above attitude, he called Pope John XXIII a "Roman anti-Christ" and his Church the "Harlot of Babylon". On June 3, when the Pope died, Paisley roared, "This romish man of sin is now in hell."
        •        In May of 1968, during the height of the Civil Rights movement in the North, Paisley addressed a mob of 500 loyalists and burned a photograph of Prime Minister O'Neil who was shown to be visiting a Catholic convent the week before.
        •        After inciting loyalists to burn Catholic families out of their homes, the Rev. Paisley explained the problem to the press: His exact words were "Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners; and the massive discrimination in employment and shortage of houses for Catholics were simply because they breed like "rabbits" and multiply like "vermin".
        •        William Beattie, a loyal lieutenant of Rev. Paisley, addressed a DUP Youth Group after the Anglo-Irish Accord was signed by the Dublin and London governments in 1986: "We must hire assassins to kill Catholics and pay them when the job is done."
        
AND THE REST...

On Violence
        •        Several founding members and early leaders of the Ulster Defense Association were close confidants and workers for Paisley. Between 1971 and 1976 alone, the UDA [Ulster Defense Association] and its cover organizations murdered 600 Catholics. Freddie Parkinson, a leader of the UDA, stated in 1984, that Paisley was "a tarantula who spreads the venom of further conflict and has been a major contributor to our prolonged tragedy."
        •        John McKeague, a disciple of Free Presbyterianism, founded the murderous Red Hand Commandos. Billy Mitchel, a gunman for the Ulster Volunteer Force murder squads, was a Sunday school teacher for the Free Presbyterian church. William McGrath, founder of a paramilitary group that called for the banning of the Catholic Church, was convicted in 1981 of sexual abuse of children.
        •        Paisley's most trusted aide in London is Rev. Brian Green, a man with close links to the National Front, a Nazi organization.
        •        Billy and Gusty Spence, founders of the UVF murder gang, and Ken Gibson, Tommy Heron and Davey Payne, leaders of the UDA, served as organizers at Paisley's rallies, In 1969, bombings around the North were falsely attributed to the IRA. Paisley's bodyguard, Sammy Stevenson turned Queen's evidence admitting he and Tommy McDowell, a Free Presbyterian, conspired to set off the bombs in loyalist districts in order to further incite the loyalist community.

On Freemasons
They got their strength from the excreta that runs from the sewer pipes of Hell." Once Paisley learned wealthy Freemasons in America were supporting his churches, he had a vision that Freemasons should be admitted to the Free Presbyterian church.
On Censorship
The Democratic Unionist Party, the political wing of the Free Presbyterian Church, passed a resolution at its 1978 annual conference to condemn blasphemous literature like John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men.
On Women
Valerie Shaw, secretary of a Free Presbyterian church, discovered sexual abuse of boys at Kincora School by Paisley confidant William McGrath. She tried to get Paisley to give the matter his spiritual attention for years. When he did not, she left the church. Since then, no woman can hold official office in the church leadership.
On the EEC
Paisley berated the European Economic Community as part of a "papal plot" and the "bride of the anti-Christ." He sought the seat to the European parliament because God told him to "sit amongst the frog eaters [French] and the snail mongers [Belgians]."

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,Eyes Wide Open
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:17 AM

Seems his son Ian flew into Dulles - on Aer Lingus - arriving a couple of days ago.   Plane was loaded with music Paddies making their way in for the dash for the cash holidays.   As they queued to disembark, a delighted Dubliner couldn't resist saying a quick hello - "Ian!! Thank you for flying The National Airline today."

Yer man was greated with a low harrumph, whereupon Ian Jr. briskly surrendered the aisle and sauntered off towards his own Paddy's Day gigs.

:-))))

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Beer
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:53 PM

Thanks Bonnie for that very informative read.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 05:28 PM

Such a hideous accent!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:45 PM

A loathsome piece of sh*t who hated virtually everyone on the planet, the way I understood it.
His son is now in the frame, maybe he's better?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 03:51 AM

The weird thing is that, if he was as 'out there' as all that. Why did he have followers? And quite a lot of them.

Common sense surely tells us that not everyone who voted for him, was a frothing at the mouth zealot. Remember he wasn't a minority politician, like it has to be said, Sinn Fein were before the hunger strikes. This guy guy attracted followers by the thousands - whose point of view had to be taken into account, in a democracy.

Possibly some people on the thread are making the mistake of believing everything the man's enemies may have said against him at some point.

Divis Sweeney, for example, (who was a staunch republican and made very fine contribtions to these threads, before the acrimony of the Thatcherites drove him off) would have little bad said about Paisley. He suspected much of what was said was fuelled by distrust of the NI accent. He always said Paisley was fine constituency MP. This was news to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley calls it a day
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 11:29 AM

Why did he have followers? Because he told them what they wanted to hear. Needed to hear. You wrote earlier, "The Irish never grasp the full scale of English indifference to their politics."

Oh yes they do. A certain sector of the northern population feels/felt abandoned by Britain, perceives/perceived themselves to be under threat because they know the UK is driven by conflicting motives regarding them, and does not wholeheartedly want them. Not being in the numerical majority, they are support-dependent from without; and when this is equivocal at best (as well as being fought at every turn) the people Paisley speaks for find comfort and protection in his armour-plated stance.

This is a vast oversimplification, but it's relevant as an observation. The situation is so complex because it's been rooted in over centuries, riven with ambiguity, and fuelled by people on both sides who feel at risk from any empowering of the other. In short, FEAR is why he has followers.