Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?

Subject: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:44 PM

Hello folks. I'm planning on making a demo CD sometime this spring, self-recorded on a digital multi-track machine.

I see that there are CD-shaped stickers available for sale, that you print out on a regular computer. Are these reliable, or do they interfere with operation? I see that the package (Avery) guarantees that they won't come off in the computer/CD player - and one person has told me that a brand name like Avery will work but that I should avoid the cheap ones. However, I've also heard that using any stickers on CDs is risky.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:54 PM

I've moved away from them. They are fine but you can't be sure that they will not blister later on. There are some good printers for around $100 which will print on discs which have been pre labelled. I prefer Lightscribe though. It's come a long way in the past year.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:18 PM

I use them for my LP to CD project and have had no trouble, but my need is for one-of-a-kind labels. I'd think that putting them on demos would look a bit unprofessional.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:57 PM

What's Lightscribe and what does it do?

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:58 PM

If you use the stick on labels its best to get the high quality type (photo glossy). They usually sell for around 50 cents each. I've had a lot of trouble with the cheap paper type.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:20 PM

I would stay away from stick-on.   They can jam up a CD drive, and sometimes the extra thickness can get them stuck.

I recommend Lightscribe as well. It is a CD printer drive that is manufactured by HP. It burns the image on the disc face, but you have to use HP discs. The downside, if you want to call it that, is that they won't print in color. The savings in ink is worth it!

You can also buy printers that will print on discs - Epson makes some really good ones.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:20 PM

You need the applicator doodad and a modicum of physical coordination, but the paper ones have always worked well for me.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: GUEST,Acorn4
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:24 PM

Remember a CD reader actually reads from the bottom so the label on top won't actually interfere -it's all down to how much you want to spend!

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:28 PM

I've used the paper labels and for the most part the worked okay but occasionally they do get caught up in the CD player - especially as time goes by and they warp a little bit. Maybe the high end ones are better - I used Avery

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: open mike
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:41 PM

Epson has a printer that prints directly on c.d. /dvd with the white,
printable surface. This can include photos or other graphics, but like the light scribe require discs made for the process.

if you DO use a sticker, make sure it is one that covers the entire surface, not just a small label of some sort, as that will cause the disc to spin out of balance in the player.

see Epson printer web site..look for the ink jet models..

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-8165

good luck. Laurel

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: GUEST,Captain Colin.
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:43 PM

Bad.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:47 PM

The professional way to print an image on a disc is by screenprinting (aka silkscreen). I'm a screen printer by trade and have done many CD jobs, including my own band's CDs. You could look for a local screen printer and have him do it for you.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Arkie
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM

I tried the stick on labels and the CDs would hang up in my truck CD player. They worked fine on trays that slide out or players that did not have a narrow slot for inserting the CDs. I bought an Epson for the studio at work and it worked very well, but as said by several above you have to have printable CDs which are around the same price as the normal CD-Rs. I am now using an HP printer at home and it is not perfect but does a creditable label. It also prints with Lightscribe. The software that comes with the printer is not all that great but I have been using an Acoustic program which is not all that expensive and you can download it to try it out before buying. Once you purchase the program all updates are free. It works quite well with the HP printer. Lightscribe has improved but is fairly slow. You need a special disc and you flip it over once it has been burned and Lightscribe works on the CD while it is in the CD drive. I have been satisfied with these labels as well.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:39 AM

I have several CDs that were labelled when I bought them, and they worked fine at that stage. A couple of years later the labels seem to have fattened up and they eject in my Mac, my stereo and my car CD player without playing. Only sometimes they also get stuck.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:13 AM

Many vehicle CD players have a "damper pad" that rubs lightly on the outer 1/8 inch or so of the top side of the CD, to prevent the CD from bouncing around when you're out chasing jack-bunnies across the pasture. If a stick-on, or even a thickly screen printed, label runs clear to the edge, any irregularity in the top surface can "jam up" the CD. An off-center stick-on can have the same effect.

Cheaper stick-on labels do have a tendency to "bubble up," often producing a little ridge if you try to rub them back down. In home players, or in computer drives, it's seldom a problem; but it could be in some players, especially those meant for mobile use.

I used a lot of stick-on labels on archive data CDs made a couple of years ago, and most of them - using a variety of labels - show some localized "lifting" of the labels. It's worse, of course, with less controlled storage; and ones I've hauled around in the camper are noticeably "less well cohered" than ones left in storage at home.

A screen printed label obviously is best, but you need to want the same label on several disks to cover the cost of the screen. It's been several decades since I've done any screen printing, so someone else will have to estimate a "break-even" quantity.

The light-scribe method that "burns" an image directly onto a somewhat more special CD is another option, but can only produce "monochrome" images. Examples I've seen are more of a "some of it's glossy and some of it's flat," so visibility/readability of the label wasn't too great. (The examples I've looked at might not be the best that can be done though.)

The printers that can print (ink) directly onto special disks are fairly inexpensive, but the printable disks run a little more than ordinary ones. Few of the inkjet inks are waterproof, so "permanence" might be questionable¹.

Common inkjet inks are, as mentioned, NOT WATERPROOF, and nearly all of them will fade in sunlight. Common inkjet printed stick on labels will "run fade and sag" if you spill a beer (or cup of tea) on them. Fade resistance has improved some recently, and of course CDs shouldn't be left out in the sun, but ...

Some, but not all, stick on labels, can be printed in a laser printer, which would provide a more peramanent image. Running some inkjet labels through the laser printer will totally mess up the printer though, so be sure you've got a suitable kind before experimenting. Commonly available laser printers of course are b/w only, but color lasers are becoming more available and affordable.

¹ The ink doesn't actually have to be waterproof in order to make a waterproof print. A sufficiently porous (microporous) surface may absorb the ink into the surface so that once completely dry the image can be quite resistant to moisture. A product called "Adventure Paper," available from Amazon (and I forget the name of the popular UK equivalent, since I can't get it here), makes quite usable "waterproof maps" and prints nice crisp inkjet images. If the prepared (printable) disk surface is similar, the inkjet direct-printed disks might be fairly durable; but I haven't seen this advertised as a feature - and haven't seen any stick ons advertised as being waterproof.

And being waterproof does NOT PREVENT sun fade.

John

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:21 AM

Arkie: I think you meant "Acoustica". Good programme.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: peregrina
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:43 AM

Not so great.
My CD player can play them, but the computer makes dire noises doing anything with a stuck on label so I cannot play them on it.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Gene
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:23 AM

Another problem I encountered is that over time the CDs warped!

The CD is usually warm, just out of the burner and the STOMP
LABEL Cold...over time the CD outer rim is higher than the
inner spindle [outside bowed up a bit] and some data is inaccessible.

i had to put several [one at a time of course] between 2 other
botched CDs and place 3 clamps on the mess and put in the freezer
for 10-15 minutes and quickly slap in the drive and recover
the data...then it soon reverts back to the warped mode...

And as mentioned above, one local pal got one stuck in his drive
...and gummed it up...

I think the lift-top cd players are easier on the cds..as opposed
to the pop-out trays on 'Puters...

Just my 2 cents worth!

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: nickp
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:05 AM

Recently bought an Epson 585 inkjet which prints to cds (amongst lots of other features which I may never use) and have only tried one cd (TDK printable brand). Very effective - although the is the waterproofing issue (or lack of). I guess it depends on how many you intend doing - a few dozen might be best "inkjetted" but more might be better done professionally screened.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM

I'll never use CD labels again, especially if I'm sending the CD's off to someone else to use. When they fail, and they ultimately will, they can ruin the CD player. Not a nice way to make friends!

We use an Epson Stylus Photo R-800 with Maxell printable silver matte surface (#648710); the inks are fade resistant (not water-based) and you can print in full color. The printing process is slow but adequate for small runs of 20 or so. The product is reliable.

That Epson printer now sells for around $300, which I would consider a moderate price for a high-end printer. It's also great for printing high quality glossy photographs, letter size.

I use the same printer for running off CD covers and inserts, and again there is a lot of hand-work involved but the product looks good. However, one must use "Epson" brochure paper for that; their printers tend to reject paper from other manufacturers.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Homeless
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:48 PM

If you do decide to use labels, be sure to handle the sheet as little as possible before applying, and most importantly peel the backing off the label, not the other way around. IOW, you want the label to always be completely flat and not ever be bent or curled before being applied to the disk.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Marion
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:17 PM

Thanks for your contributions, everybody. I guess it's ix-nay on the stickers.

Michaelr, I was interested by your post about seeking out a screen printer. I had the impression that getting CDs duplicated and printed was a package deal. So another option would be to make multiple copies myself then just outsource the label printing?

Marion

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: bfdk
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:09 PM

I translate "destruction manuals" for electronics and I've done loads for CD and DVD players. They ALL say do NOT put stickers on CDs.

Get Lightscribe or similar would be my suggestion.

Best wishes,

Bente

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 09:27 PM

Wow! this is what Mudcat does best!

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: GUEST,Nilo
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:27 PM

BAD BAD BAD

I made the mistake of labeling dozens of CD-R's in order to protect the top side against the elements and whatever else may pose a threat. I was using TY CD-R's of high quality. I still have unlabeled burns from 5 years ago that show very low c1 and a zero c2 error count when tested at max speed. CD's are flexible and do expand when warm and flex slightly in the drive from high centrifugal force. The smallest amount can cause the label to be pulled out of place very slightly and to blister, some obvious and some not so obvious blistering. I am getting the impression it also pulls some of the metallic coating on which the data is printed with it. If you are using discs with a coating on top this may not be an issue for you but I still do not use them. I mostly burn DVD-R's these days but with these old labeled cd-rs I have been going through hell getting data that exists toward the outside edge of the disc to copy off. On my DVD drive and 2 other CD drives it often will hang and eventually quit. Only my trusty black Mitsumi on an old P2 has been able to copy the data in these cases and only very slowly. The fact that discs from the same batch are doing good left unlabeled compared to the same huge yellow mountain of C2 error hell I get on the graph around the 60-80 min marks with the ones I did label makes me pretty sure it's the labels.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 08:40 AM

Nilo-

"60-80 min mark" problems with some CD's.

We had a similar problem with some CD's (Sony if I remember right) and it wasn't the labeling that caused the problem. Our understanding now is whatever imperfections there might be in a CD they get progressively magnified as one approaches the outside tracks. CD's record from the inside out, evidently.

We don't have that problem with the CD's from Maxell (#648710). We are much happier.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM

Marion -- "another option would be to make multiple copies myself then just outsource the label printing?"

Yes, that's what I meant. I do it with my own band's CDs - I like the idea that they're all hand-made. PM me if you'd like me to do yours.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 03:34 PM

Jim Lad, I did mean Acoustica. I wish I knew who was stealing letters off my words.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 04:11 PM

My one and only experience with labels was that they tend to pull the substrate off the disc if you try to smooth out any air bubbles. That renders the disc useless (unless you want to hang it up to use as a bird-scarer!).

Although the disc is READ from the underside, a CD-Rom has the recording dye sprayed on the TOP, which is where you stick the label.

I've been using inkjet printables for many years, now, and have a dedicated CD printer (Primera Signature III) which was expensive, but the registration is always accurate and the print quality excellent.

I'm using Verbatim printables with the print surface all the way to the centre hole these days, and am quite satisfied with the results - as are my customers.

My only grumble is that my 1:7 duplicator copies CDs faster than I can print them! Seven copies in around two minutes! The printer takes around a minute per CD, depending on the image.

Subject: RE: Stick-on CD labels: good idea or bad?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:18 AM

Bernard-

I have the inverse problem. My Epson printer takes about a minute per CD, but burning each CD from the PC takes about 6 minutes! This would be for a CD with about 60 minutes of music. What kind of CD duplicator do you use?

It's a good thing I can monitor Mudcat threads in between!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble