BS: There's water in the gasoline

Subject: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:35 AM

I guess the poor starving gasoline companies are trying to make an extra buck or two - just to get by.

Ian - one of the guys in my office had some trouble with his car. When they came to a stop light their car sputtered and vibrated. It didn't sound good so they took it to the shop. The garage knew right away what the problem was since they had seen 20 cases already that week. They pumped some gas out of the gas tank and could clearly see the separation of fluids. They had close to a 40% mix of water with their gasoline. They had just filled their tank. The company has already promised to pay them back for the repairs. It sounds like they are writing a lot of checks. Ian says it will take close to $900 to fix his car.

If your car shows similar symptoms – have your gas checked out.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:48 AM

Wouldn't it be great if they ran on water.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:52 AM

You know what WC Fields said about water . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: MMario
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:54 AM

Or Ben Franklin!

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:56 AM

They WILL run on water if you boil it under pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 10:57 AM

True. Heck, even rivers run on water . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:29 AM

Wesley:

Was it one oil comapny's distribution that was spoiled?


A

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 11:40 AM

Water in gas .... unscrupulous gas stations have been doing this for years .... It can really screw up your catalytic converter which is a costly part to replace.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM

Water also gets in from the air. For a long time we had to add drygas to my wife's Toyota because of that -- enough would accumulate that it caused a problem and the drygas (essentially alcohol) fixed the problem. I believe that the alcohol, being hygroscopic, would absorb the water and them burn off with the ignition of the gasoline.

There is ALWAYS water in gasoline storage tanks no matter how scrupulous the company is. It's at the bottom of the tanks, the gasoline floating on top.

But 40% water seems awfully high. Is he certain that his chilluns weren't playing "gas station man" as two young men I am very intimately familiar with once did to their parents' car, causing locking gas caps to be used in the future?

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM

Children playing gas station? Not with 20 cases showing up at a single garage all buying gas at the same place. And a gas company very eager to write a check.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 12:07 PM

There's an additional factor.

Many cars now have plastic fuel tanks and plastic fuel lines. The residual MTBE, alcohol and water all combine to interact with the plasticizers and create a beautiful gel which will clog the fuel system.

When gasohol was first introduced, many companies advised their owners not to use it as it would cause problems. The problem is now recurring. It first showed up in boats about 2 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM

mybe its due to

SLUT

subterranean leaking underground tanks

The MBPT gas additive eats all rubber seals.

It also causes mental retardation when it eventually reaches the drinking water supply


Besides water in gas station tanks there is a lot of baby powder.

They put it on the BIG measuring stick to see how much gas they have in their tank.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: kendall
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 01:02 PM

I operated gas stations for a while between jobs, and we had a long pole with some kind of paste on it. We would stick the tank to see if water was above the pick up pipe. If it was, it had to be pumped out.

By the way, if you get just a little water in your gas tank, ordinary rubbing alcohol works. That's all dry gas is, and it's much more expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 01:06 PM

"ordinary rubbing alcohol works. That's all dry gas is, and it's much more expensive. "

Then what's a guy to drink?

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 01:34 PM

What company was it?


A

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM

If you want to go to the trouble of draining the tank and removing the water, every old farmer I've known since Model T days has known that the gasoline will pass through a real chamois filter but the water won't. Just drape the chamois over a large funnel, pushed down inside the funnel to make a nice pocket, and pour slowly. Dump the water off when enough is separated.

Outboard boaters in my area (the knowledgeable ones) have routinely filtered all the gas over-wintered in small tanks before firing up for the new season, since any tank that's left standing for a while will accumulate significant amounts of water just from oxidation of the gas.

Several decades ago there was a lot of trouble with "wet gas" from discount stations in northern states, because they were buying "ends" from the lakes tankers and trying to pump right down to the bilge. The major suppliers would usually leave about 6 ft of gas on top of the bilgewater, and the tankers would sell off the rest at reduced prices. I helped several friends clean up their car tanks with the chamois trick then. It's a time consuming since you have to let the stuff flow through at its own rate, but cleanup is pretty complete.

One little Ford Festiva a few years ago took 14 gallons out of the tank and put back a hair over 8 gallons of gasoline; but ran fine (or as well as ever) once the water was removed.

Fuel filters can be clogged if you've run much water through them, and injectors can be damaged, so some other repairs may be needed. I haven't had to resort to cleaning anything with the newer tanks, etc., so advice from a good service shop would be in order if "modern gimmicks" are involved.

John

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

The story sounds fishy to me.

If the gas station's own tank contained 40 per cent water, how would they pump out the mixture? If they pumped from the bottom of the tank, they would get 100% water. If they pumped from the top, they would get 100% gasoline.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 02:12 PM

Sorry. That unsigned guest was me, Jim Dixon.

Furthermore, if it's true that the garage has seen 20 cases like that, it would be an easy case to prosecute. Also, the newspapers would be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: kendall
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 02:47 PM

The companies were Tydol and Mobil

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

We have similar problems with our fuel oil. Evidently our new furnace is a "canary" for this kind of problem. Yes, there is a filter in the line but enough water still gets through to screw up the nozzle operation. We're now thinking of installing a more high-tech marine diesel-gas filter.

When it's really bad the burner burns at such a low temperature that the direct-vent exhaust pipe fills with soot. Not a pretty sight.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM

BTW.... when temps fluctuate a fair bit between night and day, as they do in colder climes in the late fall, early winter, late winter, and early spring (and, here, for the past 6 weeks, the temps have been from minus freezing to what a friggin mess!), water condensation occurs vehicle in gas tanks. If your tank is less than about 3/4 full during these times, you may have a water problem.

Since most companies started placing the fuel pumps in the tanks, most problems with ice in gas lines and carbs have been eliminated. However, this practice does have a downside. Over time, enough water may accumulate to the point where a major problem may occur. That is YOUR downside. But, a great upside for the vehicle manufacturers.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Water is very slightly "soluble" in gasoline, so there's the possiblility of some water intimately contained in the gas. Alcohol added to the gas can increase the amount of water, and may result from using a "gasohol" or from adding something like Dri-gas. In either case, the alcohol can evaporate, esspecially in a tank that's only part filled, resulting in water original held in solution in the alcohol/gas mix that's "no longer soluble."

When "stirred," as when the tank is filled, the water can be broken into small droplets intermixed with the gasoline, "in suspension" much as a colloidal powder can be held in a liquid. Water percentage in this case can be quite high, and 40% isn't really too surprising.

The "suspended water" will eventually coalesce into larger droplets, big enough to settle out so that the water is (nearly) all at the bottom and the gasoline floats on top. In a large tank, however, this "settling" can take several hours. If your tankful is extracted before the settling/separation occurs, you can get a mixture with a rather high water content.

Left to settle in the vehicle, the mixture should again separate, and some water in the bottom of a vehicle tank is an expected condition.

If you've run your vehicle "down to the water," introducing even dry fuel may produce enough mixing that for a time after the fill, the fuel getting to the engine may have a high moisture content¹. With enough water in the vehicle tank, the fuel system may begin to pick up nearly "all water" pretty much continuously.

The highest cost repair procedure, commonly recommended by service shops, is removal and steam cleaning of the fuel tank. In my experience, this is seldom truly necessary; but as noted I have little experience with some of the latest innovations in tank/fuel system designs.

Fuel filters almost always should be replaced, and if there's injector damage their replacement can be expensive. Getting as much of the water as possible out of the tank, which may require disconnecting lines for adequate draining and "siphon-sponging" some residual, has been adequate for older vehicles I've seen.

For a shop that's well equipped to do it, the steam cleaning may result in lower labor charges than a piece-by-piece fix, so local advice appropriate to your situation is the only thing that works.

¹ Service shops sometimes see an increase in "watered gas" calls when there's been a jump in fuel price. People put of filling up until they're down to nothing but the normal tank bilge, which is mixed and suspended when they do add fuel, giving the impression that the station gas was the source of a lot of water.

John

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 07:14 PM

The type of fuel filter fitted to marine, including outboard, motors will remove small amounts of water from the fuel, but it must be manually emptied by unscrewing the bowl.

There is a considerable amount of steam going through the exhaust system on damp days. It comes from humidity of the air.

On some cars there is a drain bung in the tank. Leave the car to stand for a day, then dump 1/2 gallon into an open bowl. If there is water there, it is obvious, it looks like a lava lamp.
They do this on commercial aeroplanes before each flight. Works for any liquid fuel.

Petrol/gasolene tanks should be stored full OR empty, as part-full tanks absorb water from the air.

Possibility: If some enemy has dumped sugar in a petrol tank, the easiest way to remove it is to ADD water, in which the sugar dissolves, and then drain off the water.
Sugar does not dissolve in petrol, but in the minute amounts of water which (as John says) is in the petrol.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: sapper82
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 06:56 AM

There was some research done a few years back on injecting a measured amount of water into the inlet manifold. The thoery being that the volume of water was tiny compared to the volume of the air/fuel mix, but when the mix burned the extra volume of the steam produced gave an extra push on the piston, thereby improving the power output and the fuel ecconomy.
It also had the advantage of reducing the combustion temperature allowing a lower octane fuel to be used in a higher compression engine.
Wonder what happened to the project?

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 07:11 AM

There's been a fuss here on TV in Oz about the same thing. Coincidental... eh?

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 03:45 PM

Sapper82, I even experimented with that process myself, with a 'wet' air strainer. It works, but only on very dry days. If I lived in a desert, it would be worth pursueing, but I lived in England.....

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Bert
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 01:15 AM

I don't care hwere the water gets
if it doesn't get into the wine
                   Chesterton.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:44 AM

There is enough misinformation on this thread to keep a Snopes researcher busy for a month writing the truth.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 05:05 AM

Well, Spaw, I hope I am wrong on accounta the price went up again this week and I am in the E zone.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:11 AM

gnu .... it's the price we pay to have the "I" empire in our community.

Spaw ... please tell us the truth, please. All this disinformation is giving me a headache ... or maybe it could be the effects of siphoning all that gas out of my gas tank.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM

Number 6-

Some people tend to drool when they siphon gas outta one's tank, adding insult to injury.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:33 AM

Nah....I'll just do the usually accepted Mudcat thing where I pump out some bullshit and then be incensed that everyone doesn't understand..........How about I start with its a conspiracy? It isn't of course but THAT is an easy sell!

LOL.............Love this place

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:45 AM

"How about I start with its a conspiracy" ... sounds good to me spaw ... then ya can sit back and watch the sparks fly .... on 2nd thought this isn't such a good thread to ignite such a fracaus.

Charlie ... I guess ya can poke fun at my crooked back also.

Ya ... you gotta luv this place.

biLL (going back to work, a lot of bells to ring today)

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:02 AM

I'm just going back to my usual drooling.....................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM

Yesterday I filled my truck and my lawn mower gas can. We're chipping away at that national debt one tank at a time. Maybe the environmental response to this problem is to raise goats to keep the lawn short. The dogs don't eat the grass fast enough (boy, would they be pissed off if I got goats, though.)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:31 AM

Hey, there's a banner ad that says I can order a gizmo so that I can burn water and gas in my car, and double my mileage! Does "double my mileage" mean that my car will be towed a lot?

Number 6 -

Did I say something nasty up above or was it another "Charley"?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: number 6
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

No hard feelings at all Charlie

I apologize if I came across in a negative manner .... my crooked back, drooling, headaches, ringing bells = Quasimodo.

... ok ... it's stoopid .... what do the Bells of Notre Dame have to do with water in gas.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:17 PM

sIx!! That's it! It's leprechauns! I KNEW it was a conspiracy. The Irish are taking over... green gas will be next.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:32 PM

Green gas ? Spaw has that already. Nothing new there.......

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:46 PM

There's no water in the gas here right now, as far as I know, but there must be gold in it. Reg gas at the pump here today in Victoria is $1.17.9 per L or the equivalent of about $4.48 US per gallon and this is supposed to be the cheap season.

Subject: RE: BS: There's water in the gasoline
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:37 PM

Reminds me of when I was recruited to be on a panel for a public access television show about the oil price rise of the late 1970's. My hair was appropriately slicked back and when the MC asked us whether the price hike was all an oil company conspiracy we all gleefully chorused "Yes!" Our program has no effect on oil prices, sad to say, but we were amusing.

Charley Noble