Björk said free Tibet and the china ....

Subject: Björk said free Tipet and the china ....
From: skarpi
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM

well all, about two weeks ago björk was doin a concert in china , and when she was finish the declear independence she said " Free Tipet "
and the at some state the china men did not like itvery well.

So will this affekt other musical bands to play in china ?
who knows ??

All The Best skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: irishenglish
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM

I don't see how it will affect western musicians playing China. The Chinese have been selective in who they allow to play there, and because it doesn't happen too often, they will allow more music, but probably keep the reigns on a little tighter than with Bjork.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM

Internationally, it is up to governments and the United Nations to make representations, not performers. Bjork, whoever he is, should have known better.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: irishenglish
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Um...she Q, Icelandic rock singer formally of the band The Sugarcubes.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: redsnapper
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 03:32 PM

I find it hard to imagine someone who is a musician has never heard of Bjork. And why should a musician not say something? We are all human beings and entitled to say what we like when we believe there is a terrible injustice.

Anyway... well done Bjork and more people should take her lead.

RS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 03:41 PM

"entitled to say what we like when we believe there is a terrible injustice."

I suppose so, if all you can see is the immediate, ie the moment in which the mouth is engaged before putting the brain in gear. China is hardly a hot bed of human rights to begin with, in doing what she did, I firmly believe Bjork endangered the lives of activists who actually live in China, and work diligently to better the lives of the subjected, and who live in constant danger of being found out for their activities

A Word to the followers of the Holy Church of St. Bono, stick to performing, it's what most of you do best.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM

Rock, you say? Music? Pity.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: redsnapper
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:01 PM

I suppose so, if all you can see is the immediate, ie the moment in which the mouth is engaged before putting the brain in gear

So principles have nothing to do with it then...?

RS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:08 PM

If you've got the bully pulpit, I say use it! Celebrities have the ear of the media and can use it to effect change.

Whether it's Sinead O'Connor tearing up a picture of the pope or Bono advocating for Third World debt relief, more power to them.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: irishenglish
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:09 PM

I was just wondering what you meant by China "hardly being a hotbed of human rights"? And her saying an off the cuff bumper sticker slogan which mentions no specific people does not endanger anyone specific. Now if she had namedropped a specific individual, then I would say you have a case for endangerment.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:40 PM

I was just wondering what you meant by China "hardly being a hotbed of human rights"?

Ummmm...human rights in China...non-existent..

"Now if she had namedropped a specific individual, then I would say you have a case for endangerment."

hardly....the Chinese government, if even it thinks there might be trouble, round up the "usual suspects" so to speak, individual names is not a requirement.

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM

I don't think the Dalai Lama would mind. He travels the globe telling one and all to Free Tibet. If you've got the bully pulpit, use it. Besides what I read said she sang a song called "Declare Independence" and just shouted "Tibet, Tibet!" right after. There is an inference, yes, but it's hardly a ringing "Free Tibet" kind of thing. Perhaps it was such an emotional moment for her, she couldn't help it.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:57 PM

Hmm, Pete Seeger OK, Bono and Bjork not OK?

And the difference is?

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:43 PM

When did Pete Seeger go abroad? He did his protesting at home, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:17 PM

I find it hard to imagine someone who is a musician has never heard of Bjork

So what are your specs, redsnapper? Your type of music, your age? That makes a big difference in who people are paying attention to, and if they haven't heard of her it doesn't diminish in any way their credibility as musicians.

I'm not a musician, per se (I don't perform publicly), I mostly pay attention to older rock, folk, and classical music. So. I'd never heard of her until two days ago when a friend who lives in Greenwich Village, New York, told me she had dropped in at the gay bar he frequents. Had her security guy(s) with her. I had to look her up. I still don't know what she sings.

SRS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:18 AM

We've discussed her before a little bit: Click Here. If you put her name in the search box a few other threads come up which have info about her and her music.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

stick to performing, it's what most of you do best.

And what exactly is it that YOU do best, Charlotte? Do you always stick to that? Do the words kettle and pot mean anything to you?

D.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:11 AM

I don't think that Pete Seeger stayed in the USA his entire life. In any event why would staying safe at home and protesting be somehow more meritorious than going out where it might get nasty and protesting?

Subject: RE: Bj�rk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: semi-submersible
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:33 AM

Here's a viewpoint on whether to mind our own business "when we believe there is a terrible injustice" from a world-class authority. You may have heard of him. (This quote was included a couple of days ago in the free email from A.Word.A.Day.)

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
-Desmond Tutu, clergyman (b. 1931)

Personally, I don't see how ignoring a grave injustice would help the efforts of people trying to correct it. The descriptions of her comment sound measured and honest.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: redsnapper
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM

So what are your specs, redsnapper? Your type of music, your age? That makes a big difference in who people are paying attention to, and if they haven't heard of her it doesn't diminish in any way their credibility as musicians.

Bjork has been in the mainstream public eye for 20 years and was recording at least 10 years before that. She is generally acknowledged as having a very unique voice and style, whether one likes her music or not. She was also the lead in the major Lars Von Trier film Dancer in the Dark, discussed at length here at Mudcat, and was active in raising a large amount of money for tsunami relief. She has also been the subject of a number of other threads on Mudcat over the years as Katlaughing said.

So therefore I do find it surprising people, particularly musicians, have not heard of her. By the way I am in my late fifties and play blues and Irish/Scottish traditional music, so Bjork is not exactly my genre but I do try to keep my eyes, ears and mind open.

RS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Black Diamond
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:26 AM

I always feel a little sad when people make these kind of "stands" in public. If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing? Bjork is in the business of making money for herself through her performances and that is the only reason she went to China, to make a fast buck. If she is happy to do that, and to accept their money, then she is morally challenged to begin with.
In another thread on Mudcat we were encouraged to veto the Olympics because of the lack of human rights. doesnt this apply to all aspects of relationships with the country?? including music performances.
Mind you I have yet to be persuaded that what Bjork does is anywhere close to what I would call music !!!!!
Lin

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: pavane
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:36 AM

She did start out as an Icelandic Folk Singer, I think. I remember seeing a bit about her on TV.

Her big hit about it being so quiet (and then shouting) was actually an old song from the 1940's. Can't remember the proper title though.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: pavane
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:37 AM

Blow a Fuse, I think.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: pavane
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:40 AM

The Blonde Bombshell, Betty Hutton, passed on, March 11th, 2007. Her most notable film role was the part of Annie Oakley in the 1950 musical of "Annie Get Your Gun." One of her best known songs, "Blow a Fuse" (a.k.a. "It's Oh So Quiet"), was covered by Icelandic artist, Bjork. This song appears on Betty Hutton's CD albums, "Spotlight on Betty Hutton" and "Satin & Spurs".

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Barry Finn
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:17 AM

I had no idea of who Bjork was either, until I read this tread, can I still be a musician? Please.
Those involved in the arts have always spoken their mind through their art's medium & with their voice. They are usually the 1st to fell the yoke of oppression because of their positions too.

To bring up Bono in any light but a bright light is a disservice to all musicians everywhere. Here's a talented musician whose achived fame & fortune & put it to great use not only with world debt but his achivements as an AIDS activist has had a profound possitive effect in Africa. Talk about one person making a huge change in the world, we should all be so quiet about what we feel stongly about.

Barry

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: matt milton
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM

Good for Bjork. It may not be much, but you can be damn sure that if there were any pro-Tibetan sympathisers in the audience they appreciated it. (I'm guessing Bjork's audience was probably largely the moneyed middle-class and I'm guessing they probably have better access to the limited information available about such things.)

Plus I don't see how a foreign artist those two words endangers activists' lives any more than they are already.

I increasingly believe that there's much more force in a visiting dignitary (as it were) embarassing the authorities in situ than a wholesale cultural boycott, in which no one plays there in the first place.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:44 AM

Well I´ll be.........   

Bjork started out as a child singer ,and after that she
started in some " punk " bands and she has done a jazz album
with Icelandic folk songs , but the again she started her own many years ago , now I know Bjork a little and she´ll say what she think ,
she is just like that and if I dont like it well then its my problem .

She a wonderful person , she is and she always be her self
and nothing else , she never try to copy anything .


Independence and independence , its sometimes strange to hear
the most powerful nation in the world talk about independence.
What will US do when Taiwan will declear independence ?
Why did Us suport Kosovo ?
why not Tipet , becouse china is involved ?
why not the Bask in Spain ?
why not cypers / Greek/turkey ?

but thats another political matter , and its tricky to solve .

so be friends all
All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:54 AM

Why not an independent Kurdistan? Why must we accept the national boundaries drawn up at the end of World War II as eternal?

But the fact remains that gestures like this do draw attention to injustices (which are much more the issue than some notional "independence"), and I applaud her for that. Even though the personal risk was minimal- they wouldn't arrest a high- profile international star. I suppose it's on a level with Black Power salutes at the Olympics.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:07 AM

'Internationally, it is up to governments and the United Nations to make representations'

Because we all have eternal faith in our respective Governments to make the right decisions and do what is best for humanity....

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: topical tom
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM

Simply put, we need more Bjorks, Bonos,and Pete Seegers et al;people of lofty moral convictions who are not afraid to express them.By lofty moral principles I mean beliefs in social justice.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: irishenglish
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:00 AM

....the Chinese government, if even it thinks there might be trouble, round up the "usual suspects" so to speak, individual names is not a requirement.

I highly doubt that Charlotte. What would be the grounds if they made no so called "inflammatory" speech themselves. You think just because Bjork possibly said two words at a concert that every Chinese dissident has been rounded up?

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:09 AM

Well, my friend in Greenwich Village suggested that she cut a rather wide swath, a bit of a pampered star routine, when she and her protection cruised through the tiny little Julius bar. The farther from home you are, perhaps your behavior is less self-regulated.

so Bjork is not exactly my genre but I do try to keep my eyes, ears and mind open.

Ah, I see. So someone who doesn't know who this woman is doesn't have an open mind like you do because they haven't bothered to investigate someone they didn't know about in an overload world of noise, some of which is music.

Shall we each list the performers who we have discovered and who are well known in certain circles, and then dismiss everyone else's lists?

For now I'll consider her a Richard Gere acolyte. In world politics they would be up there with Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Mostly light, little heat.

SRS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:14 AM

'During a gig in Shanghai last week the Icelandic singer shouted "Tibet" at the crowd at the end of what the Xinhua news agency said was an "unapproved song", Declare Independence.'



I wonder if she'd have caused a problem had she shouted "dog food".

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: matt milton
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:24 AM

A Richard Gere "acolyte"? So anyone remotely well known who expresses an opinion about something to do with international politics is doing so because they are fervent admirers of Richard Gere? Yeah, I'm totally convinced that that is surely the case.

"In world politics they would be up there with Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Mostly light, little heat"

Well Bjork's not a politican so it's rather pointless to point out her stature in terms of world politics. You may as well say "In terms of pop music George W Bush would be up there with David Cameron and Angela Merkel". Nobody's suggesting that two words spoken by Bjork at a concert are going to effect anything massively significant regarding China and Tibet. Are you saying that nobody other than politicians should ever say anything about politics in public? If so, do these politicans have to be elected? If not, when and where exactly are non-politicians allowed to comment on politics? For example, am I permitted to use the words "Free tibet" in a conversation in my local pub?
What is your point?

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:25 AM

When did Pete Seegar go abroad? Dozens of times - too many to count. And I doubt that he changed his viewpoint because of the country he was in. You can depend on that.

And if you STILL don't know who Bjork is - she was the woman who wore a dress that looked like a swan to the 2001 Oscars.

See picture - swan dress

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:37 AM

Free the Swan!!!!!

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:05 AM

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Dave Polshaw
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:08 AM

stick to performing, it's what most of you do best.

And what exactly is it that YOU do best, Charlotte? Do you always stick to that? Do the words kettle and pot mean anything to you?

I play my music, Polshaw, and I don't include politics in my repetoire, and I'm hardly the only musician who avoids mixing music and politics.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:12 AM

"I highly doubt that Charlotte. What would be the grounds if they made no so called "inflammatory" speech themselves. You think just because Bjork possibly said two words at a concert that every Chinese dissident has been rounded up?"

Doubt all you want.

If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing?

exactly.


It's kind of like being invited to someone's house and then criticising the decor or the people who invited you in the first place.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

Do you think compairing furniture and human rights is valid?

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:27 AM

"Do you think compairing furniture and human rights is valid?"

I notice you focus right in on that remark and ignore the rest...interesting..
I also stated "or the people who invited you in the first place."

answer this question that was posed in another post

"If Bjork supports the cause of the people of Tibet why did she go to China and accept liberal payment for her singing?"

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: 21st Century Bluesman
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:28 AM

"It's kind of like being invited to someone's house and then criticising the decor or the people who invited you in the first place."

Yeah, right. I'm with all those England footballers who gave the Nazi salute before a match in Germany in 1938. No one must upset the apple cart... What a ridiculous argument...

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Banjiman
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM

erm....what's wrong with politics in music, why is avoiding them a good thing to do? To my mind a lot of the best traditional and contemporary Folk songs have a political theme.

Fair play to Bjork I say and bugger the decor!

Paul

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:34 AM

"I notice you focus right in on that remark and ignore the rest...interesting.."

Yes I agree, I think she is referring more to a style or theme of decoration within a house as opposed to just the choice of pieces of furniture.

anyway....

By Bjork singing in China in exchange for money, does Tibet become any worse off??

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:37 AM

Chaos in Lhasa as protests spread

Coincidence anyone....?

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: 21st Century Bluesman
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:41 AM

And your point? Ah! I get it. No one should ever rise up against oppressive regimes. Nice one.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:41 AM

Oh yeah, this has all to do with her comments and nothing to do with the anniversary of the Tibetan uprising .... your flawed logic is ... well .... flawed.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM

Only people with a high profile can ever get the chance to make any statement before a mass audience in China. This pretty well limits it to politicians, entertainers, and athletes. Politicians lack the guts so that leaves entertainers and athletes. God bless Bjork for making a stand against China's treatment of it's people. The Olympics will provide a stage where athletes will hopefully defy both their own and the Chinese governments to make many similar statements. Live worldwide TV coverage should provide a venue that defeats censorship. If the Chinese attempt to censor the broadcasts it will only prove to world how these bastards operate. We should all stand for a better world but these days the international business conglomerates are kissing China's arse. We should not stand for that!

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: irishenglish
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

I will doubt because you can't prove that assertion. She wasn't supposed to perform that song anyway, as previously mentioned. As to the money, yes of course she was paid to perform in China. If she has any type of conscience, I'm sure she wrestled with the question of should she perform there or not, just like all the other western artists who have played there. I think its a little unfair to say simply that Bjork and others performed in China merely for the money. Charlotte, yes you are not the only performer not to mix politics with music. SOme do and it comes across weak because they don't truly understand the politics of what they are talking about. Some do it successfully because they do understand. Some make their "political" point of view by merely performing at an event, or in a place like China. Maybe she wanted to perform that song and say Tibet no matter what the Chinese authorities told her. I don't know, because I'm not in her head.

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

Little side excursions aren't helping this discussion. It's a mess.

I see the politics of Gere and Jolie to be bundled in with a Hollywood package that is so opulent that it gives off a lot of other vibrations beyond the political message they are intending. If you live really really large in your own country, you have to expect some skeptics when you start speaking out for the underclass in other nations. I wouldn't say Gere lives large, I don't know much about him, actually. I take a reading that he comes across as more "authentic" in his views than Jolie and Pitt. For them, it feels like having babies and adopting babies is their current hobby. Perhaps not fair, but something that comes across in all of the chatter generated about them and by their own publicity folks.

Nothing wrong with expressing your politics if you're a singer, but there can be consequences. I wonder how many of the folks who support Bjork's comments burned their Dixie Chicks CDs when the Chicks slammed George Bush while they were in Europe?

I suppose the difference is that Bjork was a visitor to China, criticising China. and the Dixie Chicks were abroad and speaking of their own country, their own state even. They aired their own dirty laundry and were slammed in their own country. Bjork aired someone else's dirty laundry in that country and was criticised. Do these bear comparison?

SRS

Subject: RE: Björk said free Tibet and the china ....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM

"Nothing wrong with expressing your politics if you're a singer, but there can be consequences. I wonder how many of the folks who support Bjork's comments burned their Dixie Chicks CDs when the Chicks slammed George Bush while they were in Europe?"

Well folks...and the answer is....?


"Oh yeah, this has all to do with her comments and nothing to do with the anniversary of the Tibetan uprising .... your flawed logic is ... well .... flawed."

not me making that arguement, all I said was...coincidence. and I'm very aware of the approaching anniversary..

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)