BS: Dogs and Native Americans

Subject: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Goose Gander
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:07 PM

Dogs and Native Americans in the next world.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:26 PM

Other Americans bury their dogs also. Here and here and here.

It may or may not have to do with modern spirituality, but considering the things modern non-Indian Americans seem to worship, who knows? Many people express an expectation to meet their pets again in their version of the afterlife.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Peace
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:48 PM

WP Kinsella wrote a great story that involved how names of children come about with certain 'tribes'. Funny as all get out.

The burial of animals with owners has it roots in many places. Not at all surprising that it occurred here, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:50 AM

Re-read White Fang. We are THEIR gods!

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Alice
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:13 PM

My dad would tell the story about a friend in the 1920's here in Montana who went to visit a family on the reservation. No one was home, but he could hear whining and yipping of puppies from under an overturned washtub. He tipped the tub up and let the trapped puppies out.

Later, he heard from someone else that they were really angry when someone had gone by their house and let out the puppies they were going to have for dinner!

You may not know that tribes raised dogs for food, too.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:05 PM

So, what's wrong with burying my pets? I've always done it. I 'think' dad did flush the fish tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:21 AM

Yes, people still bury their pets. They are not, however, buried next to their owners.

Odd, that the relationship between dogs and Native Americans should surface at this time...

Last week, a friend and her partner (Metis) were visiting. He kept getting up from the table and walking to the back porch. I finally asked what he was doing. She giggled and told me he was talking to the dogs next door. "He's just like that," she explained. And yes, thats exactly what he was doing. It seemed he preferred to talk to them than to us. In the morning, the first thing he did was go out to talk to the dogs and it was the last thing he did at night.

In every other way, he is socially normal. In fact, he's a well respected sound engineer. Everyone talks to dogs but it was the frequency of his 'talks' which was a bit odd. The dogs next door are very nice dogs and he was sad to say good-bye to them. I've been around first Nations people all my life but I've never met anyone who had this 'special' relationship to dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:14 AM

WP Kinsella wrote a great story that involved how names of children come about with certain 'tribes'.

Terry Pratchett created a character called One Man Bucket- that aprticular tribe named the child after the first thing the father saw looking outside the tepee when the child was born. His twin brother, born a few minutes earlier, was called Two Dogs...

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 11:03 AM

You need to check out the true story of Jim, the Wonder Dog, from Missouri. A fellow in Marshal, Missouri, (I think that was/is the town) discovered that his dog had remarkable abilities. The dog became world famous for the things he could do. When the dog died, permission to bury him in the local cemetery was denighed, so he was buried just outside the fence. Then, as the cemetery grew, his grave was soon encompassed within the cemetery. A fellow named Bob Dyer of Boonvile, Missouri, wrote and recorded a great song based on the story and called "Jim The Wonder Dog". A monument to the dog can be seen in the town today.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 11:20 AM

The Indians in Southern Oregon use Black & Tan Coon Hounds to hunt bear, so I guess anything is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 03:24 PM

Louise Erdrich, Anishinaabe (also called Chippewa), from the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa in North Dakota, has a character in one of her books, a dog, named "Almost Soup." It was a near miss, not landing on the dinner table. Sometimes sacred things are eaten. And sometimes things that are eaten aren't always sacred. There are a lot of spins on the discussion. Lewis and Clark acquired dogs to eat from the Colville tribal members along the Columbia River because their party was sick of eating salmon. Go figure.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:18 AM

Try this!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:07 AM

Goes back even further in the Old World.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:15 AM

There have been stone/iron age burials in the UK, excavation of which have revealed that a small animal had been buried with the human. It's a lot older than you think.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:31 PM

Two Sioux men knew nothing of life but the reservation. Coming to town for the first time, they saw a sign saying, "HOT DOG!!" They ordered one for each. The first one to unwrap his sandwich looked absolutely amazed! His friend asked, "What's wrong?" The guy answered, "Well, first you tell me what part of the dog you got!?"

I heard this around 1962 at the University Of Chicago Folk Festival from a fellow named Tom Ehrens. I wrote it down then.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 09:04 PM

PMB: It would be interesting to see who published it first and then where the tale comes from. Thank you for that bit of info. Wasn't aware. Again, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 09:52 PM

Doggone it, Art. I was gonna post that story.

Dana Stabenow, the Alaskan author, wrote about a white man who "became" Aleut. After fasting and seeking for the vision of his Aleut name in his cabin, he realized that his name would be the first thing he saw after he exited his home.

And so he received his True Name: Shitting Seagull.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 04:00 AM

I guess today that makes me 'CatPee Wetmat'. I think I prefer being named after grandparents....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:25 AM

That's why I never leave the house.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: MMario
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:29 AM

what never?

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 May 08 - 01:32 AM

Then there always is good ol' "Two Dogs Fucking."

That's how I first heard that joke.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 01 May 08 - 05:28 AM

"Two dogs fighting" ?   I'd give my right arm, to have been named "Two Dogs FIGHTING!"

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:41 AM

Well, hardly ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:44 AM

Just found: 23 mass graves of 50,000 native american children 4-14 years old killed by the Christian Church, found in ...
(no not the middle east)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133&hl=en-CA
(interviews of the survivors)

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: open mike
Date: 01 May 08 - 11:47 PM

the Egyptians had mummified cats in thier tombs...probably for controlling the mummy mice and daddy mice that were in the pyramids, too

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 May 08 - 09:07 AM

Here's a question for you which you might have to answer sooner than you think: would you eat dog or cat?

The Ojibway and Sioux ate dog as a festive and/or sacred dish and according to some reports still do on special occasions. Koreans eat dog. If it came down to it, would you? What about rat, which is eaten in many places?

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 08 - 10:54 PM

Donuel, thank you for the link. I knew what had happened as I've seen other docus, but NOT ones that included survivors' recountings.

Here's a clickie for the link: Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 08 - 11:48 PM

One hour and forty-eight minutes...everyone should watch that video and then click on THIS and read what you can do to help, esp. if you are Canadian. Much worse and much more recent than I thought and I consider myself well informed on atrocities against Native Americans/First Nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 03 May 08 - 03:25 AM

http://www.thecumberlander.ca/show611a40s/Residential_School_Mass_Graves__Revealed

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 03 May 08 - 03:46 AM

Publicly presenting the facts of genocide and the system that spawned and perpetuates it is the first duty of the members and supporters of the Truth Commission into Genocide in Canada. This presentation is done by research, by public education, and by public protest actions; but at the heart of our work is a counter-cultural realization that by our words and deeds, we are dismantling the ideological and spiritual underpinnings of the Christian corporate culture that is threatening to kill our entire planet.

In short, we are fighting not only for those in the past and the present, but the generations to come.

Kevin D. Annett / Eagle Strong Voice

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: robomatic
Date: 03 May 08 - 11:55 AM

There was a breed of dog used by Northwest Indians for its 'wool'. The breed is long gone but an interested amateur researcher was able to find an example in the archives of the Smithsonian and verify the passed-down word of the local natives.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Goose Gander
Date: 03 May 08 - 12:54 PM

" . . . at the heart of our work is a counter-cultural realization that by our words and deeds, we are dismantling the ideological and spiritual underpinnings of the Christian corporate culture that is threatening to kill our entire planet."

While I have no idea why Donuel did not start a new thread for this topic, I will respond to this statement by Annett.

First of all, there is nothing particularly Christian about "corporate culture" and global capitalism. Corporations exist to make money, and it doesn't have a great deal to do with the Sermon on the Mount or the Latin Mass or Shape Note singing or anything like that. The fact that some capitalists may by Christians is no more significant than the fact that others are Muslims, Hindus or athiests. It's not even simply a Western phenomenon any more. Witness the rise first of Japan, then of China and soon India. Environmental devastation is a real problem, but again there is nothing specifically 'Christian' about resource depletion and pollution either. The decided un-Christian Soviet Union was an environmental calamity and it still is (because of rapid industrialization, lack of oversite, etc.) China's rapid growth has led to severe environmental problems as well. Last time I checked, the Christians weren't holding the reins of power in Bejing, either.

So while Annett's anger over crimes against Native Peoples is righteous, he's off his rocker with this "Christian corporate culture" nonesense.

And I just wanted to talk about dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 08 - 07:33 PM

Michael, perhaps it should be in its own thread, but IF you watched the video you would have NO doubt that Annett knows exactly what he is talking about. The United Church of Canada, the Catholic church and the Anglican church all have had a corporate culture of oppression they have used against the First Nations including murder. Watch the video.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: Goose Gander
Date: 03 May 08 - 10:14 PM

I wasn't responding to David Annett's specific greviences with specific religious institutions, but rather to his broad statement about "Christian corporate culture" and his linking of environmental devastation, capitalism and Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 08 - 11:47 PM

Well, from the years he has done of research, documentation and much more, he has good reason to link those three together. Again, I would urge you to watch the documentary. I know it is long, almost two hours, but it is well worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: Dogs and Native Americans
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:47 AM

Michael - Who do you think does the dirty work so that corporations can rob resources and exploit the masses?

Maybe they didn't succeed in China and India but they did a very good job of it in the Americas.

I was almost baptised once but when I found out that the Presbyterian Church invested heavily in the arms industry, I changed my mind about joining the church. If more people looked into how the churches prosper, you might think again.

btw - I am not anti-Christian but highly skeptical of mainstream, organized religion; especially when they have committed atrocities and abuse.

How do you think crime has been covered up for so long? Its because the govt. covers for the church and the church covers for the govt. When are people going to figure this out and start holding them accountable instead of defending the so-called "holy" church???

Its no different than bullying. Nobody will out the bully for fear of being targetted themselves. They have people so convinced that they were born sinners and that they will burn in hell unless they conform, that nobody dares question their authority.

When are people going to grow up and stop hiding behind the cross?