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BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?

TRUBRIT 08 May 08 - 07:45 PM
John Hardly 08 May 08 - 07:54 PM
Bobert 08 May 08 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 08 May 08 - 08:08 PM
Alaska Mike 08 May 08 - 08:40 PM
Bill D 08 May 08 - 09:00 PM
Don Firth 08 May 08 - 09:10 PM
Rapparee 08 May 08 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,Arkie 08 May 08 - 09:49 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 08 May 08 - 10:00 PM
Midchuck 08 May 08 - 10:00 PM
Bill D 08 May 08 - 10:23 PM
heric 08 May 08 - 10:35 PM
bobad 08 May 08 - 10:42 PM
heric 08 May 08 - 10:46 PM
MarkS 08 May 08 - 10:50 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 May 08 - 12:09 AM
M.Ted 09 May 08 - 12:10 AM
Rumncoke 09 May 08 - 12:41 AM
Newport Boy 09 May 08 - 03:54 AM
Paul Burke 09 May 08 - 04:08 AM
theleveller 09 May 08 - 04:11 AM
beardedbruce 09 May 08 - 07:40 AM
Amos 09 May 08 - 08:30 AM
Rapparee 09 May 08 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 09 May 08 - 11:20 AM
Rapparee 09 May 08 - 11:39 AM
Bill D 09 May 08 - 11:50 AM
Amos 09 May 08 - 12:01 PM
Chief Chaos 09 May 08 - 01:19 PM
Stu 09 May 08 - 01:58 PM
Nickhere 09 May 08 - 03:40 PM
Amos 09 May 08 - 03:55 PM
Tweed 09 May 08 - 03:57 PM
Amos 09 May 08 - 04:00 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 09 May 08 - 05:19 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 09 May 08 - 05:20 PM
Rapparee 09 May 08 - 05:31 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 09 May 08 - 05:41 PM
Nickhere 09 May 08 - 06:04 PM
Greg F. 09 May 08 - 06:09 PM
Ebbie 09 May 08 - 06:10 PM
MaineDog 09 May 08 - 06:21 PM
Tweed 09 May 08 - 06:39 PM
Metchosin 09 May 08 - 09:53 PM
The Fooles Troupe 10 May 08 - 01:16 AM
Stu 10 May 08 - 04:53 AM
The Fooles Troupe 10 May 08 - 05:48 AM
Tweed 10 May 08 - 06:56 AM
Rapparee 10 May 08 - 11:14 AM

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Subject: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 08 May 08 - 07:45 PM

I've been expecting a thread way before this. I live in an old - very old and very energy inefficient - 5 story Victorian house and I live in Maine where it is really really cold. Last year my budget plan for oil -- BUDGET - same every month winter or summer - was $389. I have just been told by the oil company our new number will be $575 -- a MONTH - YEAR ROUND........that is a mortgage payment for some people. Luckily - so far - we can afford it and we have a future soninlaw who is a carpenter and is going to help us insulate this place --- but what on earth are people going to do with these prices.....how will they manage - how will they stay warm?


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 May 08 - 07:54 PM

You'd probably recover the cost of conversion to natural gas in a very short time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Bobert
Date: 08 May 08 - 08:02 PM

I'm convertin' to the "leather express"....


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 May 08 - 08:08 PM

Good question Brit.

A lot of folks will have a tough winter. Will Mr. Chavez be giving away oil this year?


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 08 May 08 - 08:40 PM

The only good thing about the high cost of oil is that it will significantly raise my share of the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend. Rumor has it that 2008 should bring each of us $2600 this coming October. That should buy a tank of fuel or two for the old 4x4. No sales tax, no state income tax, and a nice check in the PO Box. Alaska is a great place to live.

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:00 PM

"Alaska is a great place to live."

I'm on my way! Spent a pleasant week in Juneau many years ago...even climbed the mountain back of the town.

(ummm...how long do you gotta live there to be a resident?)

Maybe Arizona, where I won't need much oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:10 PM

I heard on the news last week that Exxon-Mobile had just logged in the largest net profit of any company in history. Anywhere. Ever.

When you're standing there at the gas pump carefully filling your tank with an eye-dropper, it kind makes you wanna spit, don't it?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:12 PM

It's gas, electric, wood, wood pellet, propane and so on out here. No heating oil to speak of is used. Oh, maybe a kerosene heater now and then, but that's about it.

Bring back coal! I miss gittin' up at 2 a.m., shakin' down the grate, and throwin' some more on the fire! Or fillin' the stoker and then pullin' the clinkers out! Coal! Yeah! Hello, carbon monoxide....


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:49 PM

I am asking because I really do not know, but does the buying and selling of options on oil have any effect on the cost at the pump or to heat one's house?


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:00 PM

Capitalism at it's best! The rich get richer and the poor poorer. Then the poor are fed a load of hogswallop making them believe that they are all the better for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:00 PM

I've been putting in a lot of time with a chain saw in the last few days. Salvaging down wood in our own or adjacent yards from recent winds.

We live in a big, drafty old house, too. I've cut our oil consumption from around 1200 gallons to 800 by burning the wood stove.

Makes it harder to keep the instruments humidified, tho'.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:23 PM

I STILL want to know why, when the traders change the prices on oil futures, the price at the pump goes up immediately! That oil they just bought at $120 will not be in my neighborhood for weeks or months!

Someone is scooping up PILES of $$$$$$....and to read Exxon's financial report, I have a good idea who!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: heric
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:35 PM

I still want to know why, and when, a person decides it's time he's just gotta gotta have some pork bellies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: bobad
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:42 PM

I may be a little simple when it comes to matters of "the economy" but I was of the impression that a market economy was driven by supply and demand. In the case of oil there hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, been any great changes in either of those parameters - the price is being driven by speculation in the stock market. Does that mean that people are betting that in the near future there will be a major change in either the supply or demand of oil, major enough to warrant a nearly 100% increase in a relatively short period?


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: heric
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:46 PM

I think there's a complicating overlay with regard to refinery capacity, as well, which of course can be restricted or misrepresented.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: MarkS
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:50 PM

Yeah! Hello, carbon monoxide....

And also hello radon. Got bit on this one a few years ago after selling a house in which I stored coal inside.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:09 AM

"Makes it harder to keep the instruments humidified, tho'."

An old trick is to place a few pans or kettles full of water on the wood stove top. They simmer/boil, depending on the rate of heat output, and humidify the air a bit. Adjust to your own circumstances/satisfaction. Check the levels occasionally. Discard the resultant liquid eventually - it will concentrate the salts, heavy metals. If you keep using the water from one for hot drinks, washing up, etc though, you will not be concentrating it much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:10 AM

A smoked pork belly, lettuce, and tomato sandwich would taste pretty good about now--


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:41 AM

If you think that the prices in the US are high, try living in Britain.

However - I am puzzled that there have been a couple of comments on the non insulated draughty houses you live in. It seems crazy to me that you just burn more fuel to keep warm whilst at the same time heating up the air outside the house - perhaps if the cost of heating rises enough it will force people to stop wasting fuel and get their buildings sorted out.

Our Victorian red brick villa has a thick layer of insulation in the roof, double glazed windows, and polystyrene beads in the wall cavity. Despite it being over 100 years old, a bit of effort and not all that much expense means that it is fairly cheap to heat despite it being quite large for an English house.

Our petrol is about the equivalent of 2 US dollars a litre at the moment - that is for 35 fluid ounces, and diesel costs even more, so everything is affected. We recently bought a smaller car to reduce travel costs, but we do not go anywhere unnecessarily.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:54 AM

Agreed, Rumncoke. There's not going to be any big reduction in prices in the near future, and efficiency is the only way to go.

We have a very well insulated barn conversion (all my own work) with three bedrooms. I've just filled the oil tank at a staggering 57 pence per litre. That's £2.58 a gallon or $4.12 per US gallon. Our annual use is about 1200 litres (265 gallons, 317 US gallons).

Our car averages 65 mpg (54 miles/US gallon). I'm currently paying 120p per litre ($8.67 per US gallon). This year's fuel looks like £755 or $1440.

Phil


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 May 08 - 04:08 AM

Supply and demand- supply down (or will be in future, encouraging the owners to stockpile), demand up (China, India). There's no way down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: theleveller
Date: 09 May 08 - 04:11 AM

I live in an old station house that is as well insulated as it's possible to get it. We use around 2000 litres of oil a year and the price has more than doubled in the last couple of years. We also burn logs on a woodburner in the living room and have recently installed another in the dining room. However, logs have also increased in price to £55 a load (around a ton) mainly because the local power station (Drax - the largest coal-fired one in Europe) is now also burning wood at the rate of 25 tons an hour. Seems you can't win!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 May 08 - 07:40 AM

It is now costing me 15% of my after-tax income to commute to work.

I am actively looking for a job at a closer location.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:30 AM

It might be supply and demand; but don't forget there is a well established price-fixing cartel in between the two.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:44 AM

Either the US (and the rest of the world) starts conserving or everyone is going to go backwards. The US has got to start looking at hub-and-spoke goods delivery, for example, where the trains (which are more efficient at pounds-delivered-to-amount-of-fuel-used than trucks) deliver to central truck distribution points. The US has to go back to train travel -- light rail is an excellent idea, but it has to again use a hub-and-spoke concept instead of having the rail stop at every town along the track.

I really expect the head-in-the-sand attitude of most Western leaders to continue, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 May 08 - 11:20 AM

I'm well above the fuel poverty level (10% of income spent on heating), I'm spending 15% with a small solid fuel stove + oil-fired back-up! I have an old cottage with 3' thick stone walls (which are good insulation) and attic insulation which helps a lot. I'm trying to get a little government help for extra insulation but, so far, with little success! They should be helping everybody with the current food/energy/housing crisis. As the man on 'Dad's Army' used to say - we're doomed!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 08 - 11:39 AM

For governments to help the people means that governments have to admit that a problem exists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 May 08 - 11:50 AM

Rapaire...there was an article the other day saying that the US railroad industry IS getting a boost from this situation. Tracks are being repaired, new engines are being designed and long dead routes are being re-examined.
Perhaps technology will finally get to work seriously on alternate transportation and heating methods. (I do know I see programs every week now on new inventions and solutions...like light, flexible and cheap Solar Panels and re-designed wind-turbines)


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:01 PM

You'd think we could make freight cars smart enough to jog along the tracks on their own. Dynamic routing, like Internet packets, to avoid congestion.

Really, though, the issue is energy. In a universe consisting of nothing BUT energy, one would think the solution to an energy problem would be obvious and immediate. But we have grown accustomed to taking advantage of an extraordinarily high degree of energy density, one which allows us to store a potential of around 2400 Mjoules of energy in a 20-gallon box and use it to drive 400 or more miles at high speed. The density of energy (if you accept the biomass version of oil generation) was acheived over millions of years of molecular decompositon and densification under pressure.

While some people insist "peak oil" is behind us, others are sure new resources will continue to provide the planet's current supply rate for some time. The politics and economics of oil supply are insane at present, laced with greed, immoderate profiteering, racial hatreds, political stupidity, etc.

In terms of raw energy, there's enough light falling (and heat) on Death Valley itself alone, to provide the energy needs of the US. But it's not dense, it's not portable, and there are no distribution channels that can carry it across the nation. These are "superable" obstacles, of course, if coordinated willpower can be brought to bear. It will not be brought to bear by anyone whose survival is deeply vested in oil profits, though.

A



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 09 May 08 - 01:19 PM

Okay lets tackle this one piece at a time

1. Supply and Demand - Not a bad thing when you're talking about things that people want but don't truly need and there is a finite resource. However when everyone needs it... Also there is the very real fact that when you control the supply you can decrease the supply thus increasing the demand. Alot of people will rebel against the idea of gov't caps on earnings/costs but I think it's time to get this under control because it is really hurting the economy!

To the point of controlling the supply, I'd like to point out that the supply of crude is not the problem here. Plenty of it out there (for now). The problem is that there has not been a new refinery built in the U.S. (not sure about world wide) for a couple of decades now. Couple that with a few of the existing ones being retired and a growth in demand over the intervening two decades and you can see what's happening. The oil companies have also just recently begun shutting down whole refineries for maintenance instead of just decreasing production in the area where maintenance is being conducted. The news the other day stated that the refineries are also only working at 80% capacity.

Then you do have OPEC and the other conglomerates not increasing production when we do know that they reduced it to drive up prices a few years back.

About a decade ago I was conducting a vessel inspection at a Hess tank farm and spoke to a tankerman about the price of oil and gasoline. He told me plainly that the "oil crisis" of the late 70's was caused by the companies working together. They would allow the oil tankers to sit off shore until the price rose to what they wanted and then they'd sail them in.

It's way past time to make our houses more fuel efficient with insulation and high efficiency appliances. We're going to have to learn to reduce consumption. The only problem is that as I've already pointed out, they'll just cut production to keep the prices high.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 09 May 08 - 01:58 PM

" . . .one which allows us to store a potential of around 2400 Mjoules of energy in a 20-gallon box and use it to drive 400 or more miles at high speed"

20 miles a gallon? There's the problem in a nutshell - complete disregard for the fact the resource you're using is finite. Buy a more efficient car for a start. Take some responsibility for your actions - because anyone with a vested interest in the oil/car industry certainly doesn't give a shit.

Welcome to the new world order - find something else to run your SUVs on because oil based economies will become a thing of the past. Here in the UK we're paying £5/$10 for a gallon of diesel, so stop whinging (you're paying less than most and you should be paying the same) and start looking for an alternative - you're going to need one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Nickhere
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:40 PM

Trubrit, I know how you feel - the gas company here keeps sneaking up its prices, a few cents here, a few cents there. We had a very cold spring this year which meant the heating was on a lot longer than I'd anticipated. The gas company keeps sending me flashy leaflets telling me how it's going to freeze gas prices until at least next November (wow! since the gas is mostly off in the summer anyway) - but fails to mention how prices will shoot up at that time just when you start using more of it.

I've tried to solve the problem by making sure the house is as insulated as possible - attic reinsulated, double glaze windows etc., but if you have an open fireplace (like we do) you might want to consider fitting a chimney cowl that can be closed when the fire's not in use. Rooms with an open fire lose loads of heat and a very annoying draught is created even when the fire's not lit because warm air rises up the chiney, creating a vacuum behind it that sucks up more air from the room. I also close the curtains early in the evening in winter when the heating comes on, it traps the heat better than just glass. Have a timer clock on the heating, thermostatic valves on radiators (so radiators in less used rooms can be turned down a bit).

We burn wood mostly in the open fire - less pollutants and cheaper than coal. Plus wood is easy to come by: I burn all old scrap wood, even bits left over from DIY. A good source are the pallets thrown out and free to take away by many companies. If you have a car, a saw (or better, a chainsaw, but watch the nails!) and some patience, you can keep yourself going nicely with this.

A neighbour of mine built a very efficient boiler from an old round water tank. He created a double-hull, with water circulating between the two hulls. Pipes from this carry water into the house. Pallets are burned inside the inner hull and the whole boiler is sealed off by having the door closed with just a small hatch to assist burning. It heats the water sufficiently for only a little extra energy to be required from gas / oil to bring it up to a good temperature. Solar panels on the roof can be used to a similar effect, and these days they've gotten much more efficient. Another interesting idea I came across was to run copper pipes througha shallow wooden tray. the pipes and inside of the tray are painted black. A sheet of thick perspex placed over catches the sun's energy, black absorbs the energy more efficiently. Again, it only adds a few degrees heat to the water but this is often enough to dramatically reduce the amount of energy needed to bring it to a reasonable heat.

Anyway, just thought you might find it useful!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:55 PM

SOlar thermal heating can raise the temperature of water to the boiling point on a spring day, depending on the angle and the cloud cover.

We had it installed in our first house, long ago, and it saved significant points from our heating and Hot Water bill.

And no -- if you pay attention to the screams in economic circles, daily journalism, political circles, you are clearly not the only one stunned!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Tweed
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:57 PM

I'm stunned that they've been allowed to jack up fuel costs with no restraint from anywhere. I don't know about UK and Europe but we in America used to be somewhat protected from greedy mega corporations and from our own government. This of course has changed drastically since the present regime so forgive us if we sound summat naive. A royal fucking of this calibre is still new to us and we don't know exactly how to handle it just yet. Some of us saw it coming and knew we were gonna be screwed and some saw it coming and they thought they were experiencing some sort of paranoid dementia and that it would go away. But it didn't and now the party's over.   

Just remember:
They can screw you but they can't eat you, as that's still against the law.

I predict a resurgence in the arts as people will be too broke to drive anywhere or buy a 2500 dollar tv set and will be forced to entertain themselves and their friends in the old simple manner again in the kitchen and on the back porches across the land. (It could happen.)

Tweed


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Amos
Date: 09 May 08 - 04:00 PM

Good time to invest in folk music shares, huh, Tweedle?



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:19 PM

As long as the big oil companies control the energy market there is a huge problem. They are in business to make money and they have been given free reign. When we conserve energy they jack up the price to keep the cash flowing. There are alternatives to petrol products such as hydrogen but the oil companies control the production and distribution and they have no interest in anything new while they are making a killing on the market with oil based fuels. Only government is big enough to take on these bastards and they instead have become their friend. How can companies that should be suffering as their resource declines make larger and larger profit? As long as corporate greed rules conservation efforts are deemed to fail I am afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:20 PM

deemed should read doomed


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:31 PM

I'm sure seeing a lot of stuff I saw back in the '70s. Like how to drive to save gas and even (gasp!) talk about lowering the speed limit (from 75 to 65). And don't forget Nixon's price freeze.

Truly, I feel sorry for whoever wins the US election this Fall. It will have to be someone of true vision and courage, and I'm not sure any of them are up to it. Of course, the Congress will also have to have the courage to stand up to those who paid them....

Back to the Earth, boys and girls!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:41 PM

Well Rap. some things that you mentioned like improved rail service are part of the solution. Lower speed limits make sense as well but as long as the governments kiss the oil company arse we will continue to be ripped off. Somehow there must be a public saving by conserving and profit and greed are factors that must be controlled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Nickhere
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:04 PM

Sandy, the big oil companies ARE the government these days! ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:09 PM

When you're standing there at the gas pump [Exxon-Mobil's profits] makes you wanna spit, don't it?

Not half so much as the wasteful dickheads at the next pump filling up their SUV's, Hummers or 500 HP pickup trucks and pissing and moaning about the price of gas....


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:10 PM

In Arizona you won't use much fuel for heating but they get you in the summertime, Bill. (By the way, you have to have been a resident in Alaska for one year before you can apply for the Permanent Fund. But it gets worse: if you got here next week, with the application period expiured since March, you couldn't file until opening period in 2010 (would not have been here a year in 2009)and you would get your first check in 2011.)

But come ahead- between the two of you (Hi, Rita!) you would get a healthy chunk of change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: MaineDog
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:21 PM

I'm not at all surprised, with an oil man as president, what do you expect? I won't be surprised at $ 10 per before he leaves.
MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Tweed
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:39 PM

Yo Amos,
You might do alright if you invest in Folk Music futures, but the real money is in cheap guitars,decks and back porches, playing cards, checkerboards, and dominos.

These things will see us through til they come off the water injection sonar-fired internal combustion engine and put it in production. ;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:53 PM

To top it off, Canadians are also being ripped off at the pumps by inaccurate measurements. What you pay for isn't always exactly what you get.....and Surprise! 75% of the time, the error in measurement at the pump always favours the oil companies and not the consumer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 May 08 - 01:16 AM

"it only adds a few degrees heat to the water but this is often enough to dramatically reduce the amount of energy needed to bring it to a reasonable heat"

For those with the appropriate maths, it's easy to work out just how much energy an increase in say, 5 deg C per volume of material heated costs in energy - if you are paying for that energy you can work out the monetary value.

"deemed to fail"

Actually not quite the wrong expression ... since the oil companies are working in a way that is designed to fail, the word is not inappropriate, in a satirical sense!


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 10 May 08 - 04:53 AM

"But it didn't and now the party's over."

And not before time. Do you think you've got some god-given right to burn hydocarbons with gay abandon and pump the air full of crap and still not have to pay a fair price for it?

Forgive me for not feeling much sympathy here but the US and many 'developed' countries are being hoisted by there own petard on this one. Drive a big 4x4 that does 20 miles to the gallon - then I'm glad you're feeling the pinch because it might make you realise the folly of an oil-based economy and spur you on to find a more reasonable alternative way of getting about (perhaps a car/truck/van that does - gasp! - 40 miles to the gallon?).

The fact is this is in the hands of the people. The unregulated capitalist system will respond to your buying habits changing - but you have to change them . Don't wait for the bloke next door to do it - get out there and do the right thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 May 08 - 05:48 AM

My little 81 model car does about 50 mpg on the highway - and nearly 40 mpg in the city....


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Tweed
Date: 10 May 08 - 06:56 AM

Hmmm..do I quit my job so I don't have to go to work and burn hydrocarbons? That'll show them bastards Stigward. Great idea.

My job btw, is upgrading and installing new underground and aboveground fuel tanks and lines and etc.
I'm doing my part by keeping the product inside the tanks and not leakin' out into the groundwater.

It's not in the hands of the people. They got the people by the balls now.

Work or lose the house. Work or face instant bankruptcy, Work so you can buy gas to get to work.

They got us buddy. Most of us anyhow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 May 08 - 11:14 AM

Gosh, my 1999 Honda Civic only got 32.33 mpg the last time I filled up and my wife's Element only gets about 25 to 32, depending on the driving she does. The Toyotas and Hondas we've had in our 35 years of marriage have only gotten 30 mpg or better (and we've got the logbooks for each of them to prove it -- we keep track of things like this).

Guess I better run out and buy some sort of huge SUV or something before George Bush kicks me out of the country, huh? And here I was hoping to buy a hybrid or something like that.

Funny, I've never seen any need to put more money into the pockets of the oil companies than I absolutely had to...and that in the US or elsewhere. For that matter, I don't see any need to put money into the pockets of ANYBODY if I don't want or have to do so.

This isn't news. The signs have been there since before the 1970s. The fact that the leaders, not only of the US but of all of the "developed countries" did little or nothing simply demonstrates the blindness of politicians.

Being damned run off the road by SUVs -- and I'm talking things like Ford Expeditions and Chevrolet Yukons -- in both England and Ireland was unsettling to say the least. The number of them on the road in both countries was unsettling, demonstrating some sort of need to ape what Americans were driving. (I will say that my English and Irish friends were as appalled as we were.)

It's been a while since I was in France, but I seem to remember being passed by nearly every car behind us because we were only going around 85 mph. And are there now speed limits on the autobahn?

Let's stop pointing fingers and start solving the problem, goddamit. I'm sick unto death of politicians and people going "shame shame on you" instead of going to work and fixing what's wrong.

Rant off.


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Mudcat time: 2 May 1:56 AM EDT

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