BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:55 PM

TRUBRIT

Eat lots of beans!

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:29 PM

Gas in a very clean fuel to use, you won't be disappointed with its quality. The price, however, no one can guarantee.
We have used it for some sixty years (Canada). For a short time we has fuel oil to heat an apartment in Illinois. The large tank was a nuisance and the odor (stink!) was sickening. But that was many years ago, fuel oils may be better now.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:29 PM

We've checked the prices -- we are converting to GAS!!! From the time we got the offer from our oil dealer to lock in prices at $3.99 to about five days later while we were still discussing it, the lock n price was $4.20!!!!!! We are insulating, tightening down, considering getting a wood stove back ( we got rid of two 20 years ago) and we are walking away from oil. My natural gas company tells me that the gas comes from the US or Canada - we are unlikely to be at war with either..........

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:10 PM

Back in the 1970s the decision was made in the US to sacrifice performance and fuel economy in order to reduce specific types of emissions.


I want to know why I can't find a William Roadster... ( ca 1962-64 steam, cold start to 60 MPH in 90 seconds, burns any liquid that will burn- butter, scotch, rubbing alcohol,,,)

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:44 PM

The United States imports large quantities of refined products as well as crude. Compare with figures posted above.

Total imports, March, 2008

From Canada, 2,303,000 bbls/day
From Saudi Arabia, 1,542,000 bbls/day
From Mexico, 1,351,000 bbls/day

Why not refine at home? It is cheaper to refine abroad; the very large new refineries are all being constructed outside of the United States.
The figures in the first post also are in bbls/day

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:26 PM

Many European cars have less in the way of emission-pollution add-ons than American-Canadian cars. In Germany I remember getting a rental model 'like mine at home,' and driving out of the lot. As I applied gas to enter the street, I spun the rear wheels- a bit of shock.
In Mexico, some years ago, our rental car had no choking capability. At our motels, we were woken up in the mornings by people starting up their cars and letting them run. Only a few models had choking built in. Moreover, the gasoline was lower in octane. Probably changed by now.

Oh, sure, Catspaw. The hundreds of thousands of oil company employees will love that. And all of the investors who have energy stocks, either on their own or in their pension funds or savings and loan portfolios or bank savings will be poorhouse bound.

Since Canada is now a major supplier of both oil and gas to the United States, I suppose you will take it over too. And Mexico. And Nigeria. And --

U. S. Imports March 2008

From Canada, 1,727 million bbls
From Saudi Arabia, 1,535 million bbls
From Mexico, 1,232 million bbls
From Nigeria, 1,138 million bbls
From Venezuela, 858 million bbls
From Iraq, 773 million bbls.

Energy information from the U. S. Government, Energy Information Administration.

Oh, yes, you would have to fight off the Chinese, Indians and other large and growing consumers.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:23 PM

Nice thought, Spaw, but I don't think we need to go to all that trouble--we've got an army and a navy over there already, why not just charge them all (Iraq, Iran, and the Saudis) a dollar a barrel to make sure that their oil gets to wherever it's supposed to, without any"trouble". Just to start, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:13 AM

Gas in Saudi Arabia is 65 cents a gallon. I advocate a multi-pronged program. First, shitcan the shrub and his cronies, then nationalize the oil industry. Next let's invade Saudi Arabia and Kuwait ourselves! That will get the army out of Iraq and everybody wants that! Then we have a National holiday where Sheiks and Oil company execs are allotted to every city around the country and then are strung up by their balls. Everyone gets to take a whack at them like a live pinata until their scrotums snap.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:54 AM

If you folks think Americans could choose to buy more fuel efficient cars if they wanted to, check this: European variants of US cars average 60% better gas mileage.

The thing is, most Americans don't realize that this is true, unless they've rented their favorite American cars while overseas, and been dumbfounded to discover that they were faster, handled better, and got way better gas mileage.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 May 08 - 12:57 AM

Guam

Gasoline - $4.36 a gallon
Diesel - $4.96 a gallon
Biodiesel - $3.60 a gallon
Used vegetable oil - Free for the collecting. Of course you need a filtration system and filters but then the road is yours... if you drive a diesel.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 16 May 08 - 10:53 PM

Yes, that Tundra is quite the vehicle. I looked it up because the guy across the street just bought one to replace his old Chevy pick-up.

2005 VW Jetta diesel, 1.9l - City 32, Hwy 41. No longer available in the U. S; I understand because of emission problems.
Your Juneau friend is adding a bit of imaginary mileage.

2008 VW Jetta 2l, 4cyl - City 22, hwy 29
2008 VW Jetta 2.5l, 5 cyl - City 21, hwy 29.

A fellow in the next block just bought a VW Touareg SUV with all the bells and whistles- 10 cyl, 5 liter diesel. Set him back about $60,000. City 15, hwy 20 mpg. Definitely not reminiscent of the Beetle.
The Touareg also comes in a 6 cyl, 3.6 liter gasoline model; City 14, Hwy 20.
I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1995, 6 cyl 3.7l gas, which does better in the city, and is (was) much more reasonable in price. I bought it in 1996, ex-lease. It hauls the family, dogs, and lots of junk, and will probably do me for another 5 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: pdq
Date: 16 May 08 - 10:07 PM

That was 13.8, Ebbie, and I doubt that a '65 Mustang is capable of off-roading or carrying a stack of sheetrock in the back area. My 'burb is also piad for and worth about 10% as much as the Toyota Tundra "Q" mentioned. (smile)

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 08 - 09:55 PM

Good lord. I wouldn't be bragging about 13 mpg. My 65 Mustang got 17- and that was bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: pdq
Date: 16 May 08 - 09:37 PM

"Toyota Tundra 4.7l -   city 13, hwy 16 -4WD pick-up"

Well, my 1987 GMC Suburban gets 13.8 day in and day out. I bought it four years ago and it has never failed to run just fine. It is the dreaded blood enemy of the Environmentalists, yes a 3/4 ton 4X4 that holds a 4x8 foot sheet of plywood in the back storage are. Note: same mileage as this new Toyota with a 4.71 liter engine, the GMC 350 is also called a 5.7 liter.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 08 - 09:21 PM

M'sieu Ted, a friend of mine in Juneau has a VW Jetta diesel that gets 52 mpg.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest is Q
Date: 16 May 08 - 03:19 PM

Many myths about mpg, automatic vs. manual, size of power plant, etc.
Government test figures at
Fuel Economy

Here in western Canada, weekend drives of 100-300 miles or more are not uncommon, to visit parents, kids, the farm, the vacation property, the ski resort, etc., often hauling several people, their gear and supplies. Very small cars are usually a second car, used in town only.
Note- almost no difference between automatic and manual, automatic now often offers slightly better mileage. A couple of pick-ups and SUVs are listed; very popular and useful here. U. S. data are in miles per gallon, you will have to do the conversion to liters.

A sampling:
Toyota Prius -    city 48 mpg, hwy 45mpg
Toyota Corolla - city 26, hwy 35
Toyota Camry 2.4l - city 21, hwy 31
Toyota Tundra 4.7l -   city 13, hwy 16 -4WD pick-up
Toyota 4-runner, 3.5l - city 19, hwy 28 -4WD SUV

Chevrolet Arco 1.6l - city 24, hwy 34; manual, auto 23-32
Chev Malibu 4cl auto - city 22, hwy 32
Chev Silverado 5.3l - City 14, hwy 19 -4WD pick-up

Ford Fusion 2.3l - City 20, hwy 29 (auto or manual)
Ford Focus 2l - City 24, hwy 35 (manual), city 24, hwy 33 (auto)
Ford Taurus 3.5l - City 17, hwy 24 -AWD

Audi A3 2l - city 22, hwy 29

BMW 328 3l - city 19, hwy 28
MINI Cooper 1.6l - city 26, hwy 34

Honda Civic Hybrid 1.3l - City 40, hwy 45

Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.7l, 6cl - City 15, hwy 19 -4WD SUV

Smart car   -       City 33, hwy 41

Porsche Carrera 3.6l - City 18, hwy 26   

The so-called Smart car seems to be a bad choice; both Honda and Toyota have models that do better, and are safer- the Smart car should not be allowed on the highway. There ae a couple of sports car enthusiasts in the neighborhood who have Carreras as second cars.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:24 PM

Little teeny niggling ways to conserve.




take stairs, not elevator.

use normal doors and not electric.

seek the local authority/corporations to turn off sodium and mercury lights that serve no purpose.

direct central air conditioning only to needed areas.




there have to be thousands of little things that add up

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:51 PM

It hit $127 a barrel today as GWB is in Saudi Arabia playing with the Kin'gs Arabian horses.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:51 PM

"You have lots of trite little put-downs, but bugger all in the way of answers, so don't judge me."

For the last time Don: I'm not judging you.

Answers? I told you what I do, but you know what? You're right. I don't have answers for every person in every circumstance so you're right, and I'm wrong. I'll keep my fat pompus mouth shut and everyone can go to hell in a handbasket. It's been too long a week and I'm going for an ale.

Have a good weekend and take care.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:40 PM

I could take public transportation to work- but it is not practical.

Ignoring my hours ( based on satellite visibility, not normal time) I would have to
1. take the bus to the metro stop
2. take Metro to National Airport
3. take a flight to Dulles airport
4. take a shuttle bus to the nearest hotel
5. walk the remaing 2 miles to work


Instead, I drive the 42 miles, costing me 2- 2.5 gallons of gas each way.

Sure, I can buy a new car that would cut the gas in half- as soon as someone gives me $20-30,000 extra- my car is paid off.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:30 PM

Read the whole thing you ass, and stop cherrypicking the bits you like.

I have told you that my job is thirty miles from home with no public transport connection, as is the case with many rural dwellers.

I don't have an excuse for using a car, I have a reason, and much as I would like to own one that uses less fuel, as I have already said, you can't buy without money.

You have lots of trite little put-downs, but bugger all in the way of answers, so don't judge me.

Out of here.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 16 May 08 - 12:52 PM

"Offence? You bet I take offence when someone who can't even be arsed to find out which side of the Atlantic I'm on, sets himself up to sit in moral judgement of my way of life (if I may laughingly call it that)."

Fair cop on the assumption - I apologise for this mistake and can assure you I was not sitting in moral judgement on any aspect of your life. I forget there are so many car-centric people in this country too. However, despite their guzzlers many people in the US have a case to make for needing a car for even the most basic of journeys. A friend of mine has moved to Florida and says the country has been built with cars in mind - you need one to get to the shops, pictures etc. Seeing as you live here I'm even more stunned you don't seem aware of the intense debate we are having in this country.

"I await the revelations of your superior intellect."

No offence, but fuck you. I won't apologise for my stance on this, and the inference from you it's some sort of chattering classes trend being foisted on a downtrodden underclass is a cop-out argument. You're dead wrong on that one son - you've no idea where I come from either and your assumptions are way wide of the mark. You might not give two shades of shit for anyone else but I can and will do my part for the sake of the generations following the fuck-up the previous ones have left us with.

"I face the prospect of working until I am in my eighties, not for the little luxuries, but for the necessities of life."

You and me both. There's always someone better or worse off than yourself, always some injustice, some excuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 May 08 - 11:23 AM

P.S. I don't even have a mortgage, my house is rented, which means that when you have finally paid of your mortgage, I will still be having to find hundreds of pounds per month for the rest of my life.

Do however tell this poor hypocrite just how you would go about buying any kind of vehicle without money.

After paying all my bills I have approximately £25 per week to cover clothing, car maintenance, entertainment and any unexpected expenses.

I await the revelations of your superior intellect.

Of course I could buy a Dinky Toy car, but I DON'T think it would get me to work, and then I wouldn't be able even to pay my bills, let alone anything else.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 May 08 - 11:14 AM

"but I'm getting the sense some of you statesiders feel pretty powerless in the face of the big business society you voted for and that must hurt"

I live in KENT, UK, which kind of proves my point about you knowing nothing of my circumstances.

I go caravanning because, if I didn't I could not afford a holiday at all.....EVER!

I haven't been further than Sidmouth in 20 years, and that far only once a year, and I'm denied even that this year because of the escalating cost of living.

I DON'T have the choices you suggest.

I don't LIVE, I EXIST, or more accurately I SUBSIST.

I thought I had made provision for retirement, then New Labour came on the scene and Gordon (The prudent) Brown prudently took away half of my pension.

I face the prospect of working until I am in my eighties, not for the little luxuries, but for the necessities of life.

Offence? You bet I take offence when someone who can't even be arsed to find out which side of the Atlantic I'm on, sets himself up to sit in moral judgement of my way of life (if I may laughingly call it that).

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 16 May 08 - 06:47 AM

"When you're sitting up there, on your high moral pinnacle, telling us stupid lower orders how WE ought to behave, without having the slightest idea of the circumstances of those you harangue, it must make you feel SO BIG, and GOOD, and CLEVER.

Alternatively, you could just get over your own cleverness, and recognise that some may not be as well off as you."

Obviously touched a nerve there . . . nice to see hypocrisy raising it's ugly head as you harangue me without knowing my circumstances.

If you can afford to pay for the petrol to go caravanning around then you're better off than I am. I'm sitting working my buttocks off here struggling to make my fucking mortgage payments because some cock in the US of A saw a way to make a few bucks from all those poor souls who wanted buy into the sham of the American Dream and sod the consequences for everyone else - which happen to be significant in my line of work as a designer as the downturn caused by the subprime fiasco has crossed the Atlantic takes hold. Not your fault I grant, but don't slate me for doing my bit for the planet in the meantime. Paint yourself as the deserving poor if you wish, but I'm getting the sense some of you statesiders feel pretty powerless in the face of the big business society you voted for and that must hurt.

But of course you're not powerless, because you are a consumer in an economy that relies on consumption. The power, ultimately rests with the individual who can make an informed choice about the type of vehicle they buy and the way they live their life. These choices dictate the market and this so if you don't buy a wasteful vehicle and buy one that is more efficient then the makers will supply those cars.

Don - your work commute entails a 60-mile round trip in a guzzling car. As Jim said above this is not going to be sustainable in the future and so we all need to change. I personally don't believe we should abandon our cars and ride around on a donkey, but we need to change our habits to reflect the current problems we face collectively. 5-6 miles per gallon? That is pathetic and utterly unsustainable and cars of this ilk should simply be taken off the road. Bleedin' fire engines do better mpg than that.

As I said in my last post the choice is yours and mine as to how we deal with the oil crisis and the environmental problems facing the world. You can take offence from what I said all you want (none was intended) but at least take some responsibility for your actions one way or the other, as I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 16 May 08 - 05:42 AM

No form of automobile is the answer for a sustainable future - build railways (where needed) and don't live too far from them!

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:31 AM

M Ted

that's why sales of imported cars have risen and why US car workers jobs have been steadily declining.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 May 08 - 12:53 AM

We cannot buy cars that get 50mpg in the US. We could once--I had one twenty odd years ago that averaged more than 55mpg, city and highway combined. Funny that with all the improvements in every kind of technology, these tiny new cars that are allegedly more fuel efficient only promise 30-35mpg--

Truth be told, all you UKers, 20mpg is pretty good mileage for a run of the mill American car--it is way more than most of the SUVs can get, even on a good day--some, such as the still ubiquitous Chevy Suburban,are rated 9mph/city, 13mph/hwy--which means that leadfoot, out-of-tune, with low air in the tires probably gets 5 or 6--

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 May 08 - 10:23 AM

"20 miles a gallon? There's the problem in a nutshell - complete disregard for the fact the resource you're using is finite. Buy a more efficient car for a start."

So simple, isn't it Stig.

When you're sitting up there, on your high moral pinnacle, telling us stupid lower orders how WE ought to behave, without having the slightest idea of the circumstances of those you harangue, it must make you feel SO BIG, and GOOD, and CLEVER.

Some of us have cars with large engines for very good reasons. My 2.9 litre (saloon, not 4x4) is more economical when towing a caravan than a 2.0litre, though it is more thirsty when not towing.

Even so, I would now rather have the smaller one. GUESS WHAT! Nobody wants to buy my large but elderly car, and I couldn't afford to buy another for what I would get anyway.

I have to have a car because my journey to work is 30 miles at right angles to the direction of travel of local railways.

So perhaps you would, in your infinite wisdom, suggest a way in which I might follow your example.

Alternatively, you could just get over your own cleverness, and recognise that some may not be as well off as you.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 08 - 12:14 PM

CNN reported today that no matter what YOU think, the price of oil has actually gone down once we make 'seasonal' adjustments.


so there.

who are you going to believe? Them or your lying eyes?

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 14 May 08 - 12:02 PM

Net profit margin is a helpful figure regarding retail outfits, but a figure that gets manipulated by accountants so creatively that it is not helpful in comparing the total profitability of companies. The harder number is the return on equity.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Stu
Date: 14 May 08 - 10:25 AM

Jim - I agree with you totally about the railways. The price of fares are putting people off the railways even though the service has improved - Manchester - London in under two hours. However, it's at a cost. I was in London and found myself back at the train station an hour before my booked train was due to leave. I went to change the booking and they wanted an additional £109 to go an hour early. I was stunned; the train left the station with empty seats and I had to wait an extra hour and eventually went home on packed commuter train. A fiasco.

It's going to take a government with balls to sport out the railways, and I suspect this lot isn't the one and if the bleedin' Tories get in then that'll be that, as they are so utterly against any sort of state control (although I believe even Thatcher thought that rail privatisation was a step too far - but Major didn't).

It's like the NHS in that it has to be seen as a service for the people, not to turn a profit. I mean, what politician expects a financial return when they stick a £25k bomb on a mud hut full of kids in Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:17 PM

You're fooling only yourself if you think the actual cost for pumping a barrel of oil actually doubled over the last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest is Q
Date: 13 May 08 - 04:35 PM

Exxon-Mobil Annual Report 2006-
http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/XOM_2006_SAR.pdf

Royal Dutch Shell Annual Report 2007
http://www.shell.com/home/content/media/reports_publications/dir_reports_publications_31032008.html
Revenue- 355,782 million
Income- 31,926 million
Basic earnings/share- $5.00

pdq is correct. It pays to put profit figures in context, not take isolated numbers from some news blog, etc. The annual reports, issued to every common share holder, are worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: pdq
Date: 13 May 08 - 12:06 PM

From the website linked in the last post, Exxon-Mobil had a TTM (trailing twelve months) profit of 9.75%. If people think that is worth whining about, fine. Either that of perhaps you should buy their stock. At any rate, it ain't no 43% or even 34%, it is 9.75% in the last twelve months, which is after they paid a huge amount in federal taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:26 AM

Chief Chaos is correct, they are making plenty of money.

Google Finance Stats on Exxon

Their Return On Equity last year AFTER all costs, pigout CEO salaries, etc. was 34%. That is very high--I think typical corporate profits tend to run more like 12%. Means for every dollar of assets, they got back 34 cents last year. Whereas you got 4% on your CDs or whatever.

The oil companies have deliberately underinvested in exploration and refineries and otherwise been causative of this mess. But what is really sending oil sky high is the devaluation of our currency(ies) and that can be laid squarely at the feet of the eejits running our government and banks.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 May 08 - 06:55 AM

Rail - well they put in a new line - ha! the rails were there most of the way.... out to Brisbane Airport (both Intl & Domestic). The fare is $10 one way - no discounts - I can't afford it - nearly same cost as taxi from here. Similar distance journeys otherwise cost just a few dollars - half for pensioners. Profit!!!! Funny, but That Name - used for the 'service' is the sponsor of the traffic copter on one TV News channel - now THAT ain't cheap....

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest is Q
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:32 PM

All profits, regardless of number of subsidiary operations, upstream, downstream, etc., all come together in the Annual Reports.
See figures posted 11 May 08 for 2006. The net income was $39,500,000 million, or $6.68 / share.

Long term obligations (pensions, etc.), reserves for the future, etc., haven't been discussed yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:31 PM

What a great idea! Do you think I could get it to work for me?

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 12 May 08 - 06:49 PM

THe profit margins are much higher than they are admitting. The problem is in the way things are being laid down in the books. Instead of just saying that the overhead to produce 1 gallon of gasoline is $2.00, tax is $(whatever) and we make $.08 per gallon the companies have fragmented themselves.

(Exxon)Drilling Company charges the (Exxon)Oil Company $$$ per barrel (with a small profit per gallon). (Exxon)Sea River Shipping (the company that now owns the Exxon fleet, including the former Exxon Valdez) charges (Exxon)Oil Company $$$ per barrel to transport it (with a small profit per barrel), The (Exxon)Refining Company charges the (Exxon)Oil Company $$$ per barrel (with a small profit per gallon) for processing/refining the crude. The(Exxon)Oil Company then sells it to your gas station at the total of these costs plus their own "small profit" to which the gas stations add $.02 to $.03 per gallon. In this way it looks like Exxon Oil Co. is only making a small profit pre gallon when in fact a large percentage of the price goes to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 May 08 - 06:46 PM

The railway is doing very well on short distance international passenger journeys via the Channel Tunnel, they could do much better on medium distance journeys if they sorted the fare structure out to make it cheaper and thus more competetive with airlines. Also, they should be running through trains from the principalities to further than Paris/Brussels, i.e. Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool/Glasgow/Edinburgh/Newcastle/York/
Leeds - Italy/Germany/Switzerland/Austria.

There is also huge scope for improved through freight services as they are too slow at present, being held up by protracted customs checks at international borders as well as locomotive changes as there are insufficent multi-voltage loco's to work throughout on each countries' different electrification systems using different voltages. Juggernauts seem to be able to drift through effortlessly although I am not sure what the position is with driver's working hours!

The time was never riper than at present for these changes as the railways are in a prime position to compete with air/road because of the increasing costs in fuel & pollution. It just has to be done, the sooner the better!

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 May 08 - 06:27 PM

'Stigweard' - the railway is gradually being re-nationalised by stealth, they're probably half-way there by now but will they finish the job? I read somewhere that the subsidy they get now is 5X what it was before they were privatised - making it all very pointless!

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Slag
Date: 12 May 08 - 04:59 PM

Thank you Don_F! I needed that! Yes Rap! As I said, the truth is a much more complicated picture of the interaction of different economies and world events. New tech, mega-disasters, wars, blood diamonds, etc. all help to shape the conditions as they are. However, the purely (!) economic factors I have mentioned have played a huge role in the shape of the current scenario. The U.S. and other democracies need to cut ties with oil-dictatorships, oil-monarchies, oil cartels, etc. as quickly as possible. I would love to see an all out effort made to develop alternate energy sources. Then Hugo and the sheiks could fill their swimming pools with oil and go for a dip and we could put our oil to better use in chemical industries and the like. The atmosphere would be sure to benefit. This is definitely the direction to take.

Steel pennies! At least they will wear longer. Does this mean that our current crisis is equal to what we faced in war-torn 1943 when pennies were first minted in steel (and zinc coated)? Could be!

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest Q
Date: 12 May 08 - 03:45 PM

So? $2.13 per share for the quarter. $1.76/share previous. Not bad. Shareholders, millions of them, are happy.
110 million shares cost- $9.5 billion (1st. 1/4, 2008)

Microsoft- $1.42/share. Not nearly so good.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 12 May 08 - 02:10 PM

Exxon has recorded the highest profit in the history of any company in the the world at a time that the industry is troubled!
Gimmee a break!

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/news/companies/exxon_earnings/

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 May 08 - 02:02 PM

Just a casual observation as I'm passing through. Whether you use "GW" to mean George W. Bush or Global Warming, it's still a whole lot of hot air. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest Q
Date: 12 May 08 - 01:50 PM

My cookie lifted again after two days. Q
Don't think I will bother with it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST,Guest Q
Date: 12 May 08 - 01:48 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 08 - 01:42 PM

Oil company profits go up and down, and your overall estimate for profit margin is probably close to the truth if one averages over a ten-year period or so.
My figures used the Exxon-Mobil Annual Report for just one year, 2006, a year with rising prices. If one would look more deeply into the Company. allowances for contingencies, future taxes, repayments planned on old debt, etc., the earnings per share would be much less. After shareholder dividends are paid, the amount of new funds available to the company would be relatively small. I am not an economist, and if results are not in words of one syllable, a get boggled. My figures trying to relate to cost/bbl could be way off.

Some more figures- (selected)
Royal Dutch Shell Annual Report, 2007
Revenue 366,000 million
Earnings- $32,000 million
Earnings per ordinary share- $5.00
Costs and Expenses-?
Dividends paid, common shares- $1.44
Capital investment- $27,000 million (includes depreciation, etc.;, $19 billion actual)

Subject: RE: BS: Am I the only one stunned by oil prices?
From: pdq
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:53 AM

Q,

I think your guess at Big Oil's profit margin is way high. I believe most US oil companies made 5-6% before the ouster of Saddam Hussein. Now they make 6-8%. Compare that to insurance companies and banks and it is similar. Investment bankers and lawyers make obscene profit, most companies do not.

If you consider the oil companies' huge investments, the amount of hard work and danger inherent in the oil business, they probably are underpaid. See Microsoft for comparison.