BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing

Subject: Origins: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 May 08 - 09:30 PM

Desert Dancer started a thread BS: effective arguments that reminded me I was planning to ask the collective Mudcatter experience about living in cooperatives/communities/cohousing. It's a relatively new style of living in Australia Google oz search on housing cooperatives & I know it's well established in the US & Europe.

I've joined a very new cooperative (we're still working on a name & constitution) and would love to hear Mudcatter experiences.

Our community will be in inner Sydney - we have support from a local council & a charitable organisation that helps set up cooperatives - and will be adapted from exiting buildings. We have been fantasising about an empty school complex with a Heritage listing!!

We are singles, families & retired members, aged 2 to 50's, and will have a mixture of rental, rent-to-buy & outright purchase. We will have personal & community gardens, community space, artist space ...

Some of the members have lived in communities, others have worked in & studied the field, & we also have help from existing communities.

I'm looking forward to a bit more room, on the ground floor (no more stairs for me poor old bones!) a clothes line!!!, a place to sit outdoors surrounded by plants (not that I will give up my indoor plants) and really knowing my neighbours.

sandra

Subject: RE: Origins: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 May 08 - 09:30 PM

I set this up with a BS prefix, dunno how it vanished.

could someone please move it.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 May 08 - 10:14 PM

very prompt service, many thankyous!

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 May 08 - 10:29 PM

Is there gonna' be a bunch of good sex and everybody runnin' around nekkid? If there is I'd like to send Cletus and Paw down your way. Cletus just loves being naked and Paw needs some help in the sex department. Things are going poorly for him as he ages and we're all getting pretty concerned. Last week I hired a pro to "give him a workout" and she stripped down and got all oiled up then asked Paw if he wanted some super sex.   Paw said he'd take the soup. He needs some help.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 08 - 11:46 PM

DADGBE lives in a cohousing development in Davis, a college town about 15 miles west of Sacramento, California. I've visited there many times for house concerts, sing circles, and for DADGBE's cooking. The development, Muir Commons, has a wonderful cooperative garden, and many social and cultural gatherings and community meals in the community center. It's a wonderful place. Maybe I can get hold of DADGBE to comment.

There's a very nice urban cohousing development on the south side of downtown Sacramento, in the area where the hookers used to do business. That development has architecture that blends nicely with the century-old Victorian homes in the area, and I think the cohousing development has inspired the entire area to spruce up. I've been to a number of parties and music gatherings and meals in their community center. It's a very pleasant place, although perhaps not as sociable as the one in Davis.

There's a new cohousing development in Nevada City, northeast of Sacramento. Nevada City has a reputation for being a center for unreconstructed hippies (like Utah Phillips), but the cohousing looks more like a modern condominium to me. Of the three developments, I like the new Nevada City development least - but maybe that's because it's new and the community has just begun to gel.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 May 08 - 02:46 AM

Swings and roundabouts....

Cohousing has the opportunity to be a vibrant and supportive community - but it can go the opposite way quicker than a ferret up a trouserleg.

The trick is to start off with open, honest and regular meetings with everyone and make sure that the lines of communication are never closed. Find a mediator before you need one - one who does not live in the community and isn't related. They can sort out problems before they escalate into full blown feuds.

My mother lived in similar accommodation - a small estate with warden control - and the verbal bitchslapping that went on there when one person painted their fence a bright green was unbelievable!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 May 08 - 06:04 AM

thanks for those reference, Joe, I've had a great time searching & reading these websites.

Muir Commons

Sacramento - Southside Park??

Nevada City Cohousing Group


UK Cohousing Network

Canon Frome Court community est 1979

I'm having a great time, but I really must stop searching & get on with the stuff I have to do tonight

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: bobad
Date: 23 May 08 - 06:21 AM

This is a site you may want to check out: Intentional Communities

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 23 May 08 - 08:35 AM

I will echo Liz. We just moved out of an artist coop last fall, after living there for 5 years, while it went from bad to worse.

Too bad, because we have a number of excellent artist coops here in the Twin Cities. But mismanagement destroyed the one we were in, and it has now, sadly, reverted to Section 8 housing with some artists who are on Section 8 and a handful of others, still trying to make a go of it.

We won't do it again, but not because of our bad experience (which of course wasn't all bad, because we did make good friends with building neighbors from 3 of the units). We had hoped to purchase our unit if the coop could have had it's act together enough to convert the building to a limited equity owner coop. Not only did that not happen, but we sustained serious damage in a major flash flood last fall, which for us was the last straw.

But the really cool folks who would move in would see how dysfunctional the place was, and move out quickly. That was the nail in the coffin in the end. The people who stayed were the most fucked up and dysfunctional, and were ruling the roost.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: ClaireBear
Date: 23 May 08 - 01:18 PM

I live in an intentional community that's been going since 1982. We are rural, having purchased a 30-acre hillside farm in Santa Cruz County. Our common amenities include a swimming pool, apple orchards, hiking trails, and a small community center/library/guest quarters. Individuals/families all have separate quarters, primarily descended from the farm's outbuildings -- there's a 19th c. farmhouse, another 19th c. house that used to be a bunkhouse for the farmhands, a rebuilt goatshed (now a 2-story chalet), a series of sheds that one family have made into cozy bedchambers surrounding their mega-shed greatroom, our remodeled pool cabana, two rustic cabin-type houses, and two mobile homes. And one gigantic barn, which my husband is rehabbing as his workshop.

We are not a co-housing, and there's not much in the way of required interaction aside from a bimonthly directors' meeting. Houses are private. The land is common, except for a smallish plot around each shareholder's housing which is that individual's to do with what she or he wishes.

The reason that our community has survived, I think, is the combination of being very choosy about who we allow to join our tribe, and a foundation of individual freedom (freedom in ones's own space, as well as freedom to socialize or stay reclusive) coupled with required consensus on all community decisions.

My husband, who's a founding member, could tell you more, but he's off at Seattle Folklife this weekend so let us know if you'd like to hear more and I'll try to get him to chime in next week.

Claire

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 May 08 - 06:32 PM

thank to everyone for your experiences, & I'd certainly love to hear more about your community, Claire.

My neighbour & good friend is very wary about communities as one of his friends was involved in a community that had a mentally disturbed member who caused major problems. This coop was on a different model (everyone pooled money to buy the site, then owned their own home) & as the person's behaviour deteriorated his friend lost money when s/he sold their home.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 08 - 07:07 PM

There was a great one in Hull called Gyroscope that lasted for years and was famous all over europe despite being unheard of in the UK.

The last I heard they were on the brink of going bust for reasons beyond their control, but they had lasted a long time till that point.

ah yes ...

HERE is a useful link.

There is a link to a radio interview at the bottom of the page.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 May 08 - 02:25 AM

I have lived in an artists co-op in inner sydney. we moved in in late 1995, I have a couple of close friends living there, and also some vry good friends as neighbours in nearby streets. We have a large common back yard, common laundry, and small hall that we use for meetings, creative stuff and the occasional folk event. it has been a great place for me and I'm very grateful to have it.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 May 08 - 09:11 AM

Always a very interesting topic, having pioneered a seven person co-operative house in the 1970's which is still flourishing in Lansing, Michigan. Here's a song that came out of a co-operative housing struggle at Co-op City in the greater New York City area:

Words and music by Beverly Grant
© 1976 Human Condition Music
In Broadside, #165, pp. 18

Together, We Can Move Mountains

Chorus:

Together, we can move mountains,
Alone, we can't move at all;
Together, we can move mountains,
Alone, we can't move at all.


You know, people, sometimes we despair
When we think we're alone and nothing's gonna change;
We get stepped on, abused, ignored and confused,
Made to suffer and told we're the blame. (CHO)

The ones who get rich, while we scrape to get by,
Know our unity means their defeat;
So they set as against one another, sister and brother, color 'gainst color,
Keeping us weak; they're keeping us weak. (CHO)

From the smallest seed a mighty tree can grow,
With its roots planted firmly in the ground;
We've got to reach for the sun, only then will we know,
All the love and the beauty and the life to be found. (CHO)

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 24 May 08 - 11:39 AM

I don't know why it is, but in MN, the only successful co-ops and intentional communities are institutionally based, and not indie.

Kind of odd, considering we are one of those "progressive capital" places.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 24 May 08 - 11:51 AM

And of course, some of them are using the concept to finance their personal utopias, too:

http://www.starwalkers.org/join/

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 May 08 - 12:26 PM

open mike has written about living this way and provided some good links. Here's one: Co-Housing and you might also find this of interest: Intentional Communities Magazine. If I remember correctly open mike was one of the founders of the latter. It does have a geographical directory for the world not just the US.

If I had a choice, this'd be about perfect: CLick.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 08 - 01:47 PM

Here are some more links I collected over the last few years:

For buying info overviews:

http://www.coophousing.org/buying_in.shtml

http://www.weown.net/index1.htm

Public policy & cooperatives:

http://www.chc.coop/

HUD mortgage info:

http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/mfh/progdesc/rentcoophsg221d3n4.cfm

The wiki entry for quick & easy info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_cooperative

Low income/limited income:

http://www.ncbcapitalimpact.org/default.aspx?id=92

http://www.nlihc.org/template/index.cfm

Midwest Assoc. of Housing Cooperatives:

http://www.mahc.coop/Coop.htm

And the org our artist coop used locally when exploring our property purchase, North Country Development Fund:

http://ncdf.coop/

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 24 May 08 - 01:47 PM

Sorry, the above was me. I had trouble getting that last one to post.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: DADGBE
Date: 24 May 08 - 02:52 PM

Thanks, Joe, for letting me know that this thread was happening.

I live in Muir Commons, Davis, California - the first cohousing development in the US. The place is very well thought out and designed to foster interaction between neighbors while allowing for privacy when wanted. It's wonderful to live here. The cherries are ripe in the large orchard and folks are out digging in the gardens.

All the governance, landscaping, organization and management is collectively handled and all decisions are made by consensus. Consensus is a slow process and can be frustrating for goal oriented people but great for folks who value process over goals.

While there have been contentious folks here, they tend to move away in frustration over not being able to get their way. We work best with people who can compromise and work well with others.

We have a common house large enough for feeding 60 and for house concerts. Over the years, many wonderful musicians have graced us with their music. Faith Petric, Utah Phillips, Cindy Callett and Grey Larsen, Brian Bowers, MudLark, Tommy Peoples, and many others have played here.

It's a GREAT place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 24 May 08 - 02:59 PM

One of the many things we believe sunk the future of our artist coop, was the refusal to work by consensus, and the refusal to allow people even a modicum of personal privacy.

Whenever you have coops run by majority rule, the latter is always going to be a problem, IMO.

Consensus governance is very hard for most people to get on board with, for the very reason you state DADGBE--it means they can't easily manipulate enough people to get their way.

Not that manipulations don't happen with consensus. They do. But it is far more difficult to steamroll a minority view, which should never be done if you are looking at long term survival of any sort of community.

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 May 08 - 03:35 AM

Kat & Fantasma, thanks for the links.

DADGBE & Fantasma, thanks for your experiences. Consensus is what we aim for - some of the members have been in situations where majority ruled (or tried!) At the moment we're moving very slowly - meetings are awkward to set up with everyone doing different stuff in their lives, & email is not yet fully utilized.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Living in a Cooperative/Cohousing
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:12 AM

a co-op is as good as the people in it. ours was developed out of an artist run co-op gallery - we got the good people out of that, and got together the housing co-op.