Accents in Folk Music

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: trevek
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 02:04 PM

A good point, Don. What is the difference between a dialect and a language (apart from the language having a bigger army)?

Funnily enough, I have Polish students of English who speak English with German or French accents because that is their primary second language.

I just put this question to my wife, who is Polish and learns traditional songs from Poland, Belorussia and Ukraine (as well as other places)and studies/practices the regional singing techniques as well.

She was puzzled by the question and then replied that if she knows th technique and the style of singing then she tries to sing it as they do (with accent/pronunciation) BUT she stressed that "it shouldn't just be a cheap copy, you have to know what it is your singing and doing".

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 02:14 PM

BUT she stressed that "it shouldn't just be a cheap copy, you have to know what it is your singing and doing".

Exactly!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:35 PM

My wife can switch from English to fluent Argentine Spanish at the click of a finger, and - perish the thought, to European Spanish......th th th th!

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:36 PM

But then she was educated at Northlands in BA!

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: trevek
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:38 PM

But does she sing in it?

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:46 PM

I was allways of the opinion - you should sing as you speak. I have no idea what my accent is. This is made more complicated by the fact that I am from an age that were punished, YES punished at school for talking as we did at home. We had to talk propper or at least make the effort. I am still aware that my speach alters depending who I'm with or where I am. So my accent, vocabulary and pronunciation is all over the place. TV also plays a major part in change as well. In Scotland we consider that - w'ar a' Jock Tampsons' bairns, but we do not all converse in the patois of our father.

And Rambling Jack Elliot got his version of 'I belong to Glasgow' from the original recording of the song, including all the patois/patter, by Will Fyfe. Who wrote the song but didn't belong to Glasgow.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM

Isn't the general idea, in life as well for that matter, that its a good idea to try and be more like yourself, and thats true of singing too as far as I am concerned

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: BB
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 11:23 AM

Almost without exception, I would agree with Matt that it's about being yourself. However, I don't have a problem with singing a specifically dialect song from your area with the local accent which is more like an exaggeration of the way in which you usually speak anyway.

I think using another language is usually a different matter, as that's about communication which possibly wouldn't otherwise take place, or is perhaps a matter of courtesy to the person you're communcating with. This would surely rarely apply with accents, as English-speaking people generally understand 'received' English because of mass communication, and unless one's accent is very broad have little difficulty in understanding other accents - dialect may be a different matter!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 12:51 PM

There is a youtube video of Katyusha which makes me cringe everytime. An English choir, I think.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 01:16 PM

There are certain singers who are actors. Jack Elliott is one. They have the gift of mimicry.
Frank Warner was another. Ewan McColl. The New Lost City Ramblers. Their ears pick up the speech patterns and accents of others successfully for most.

There are plenty who don't. Pete Seeger for one. He sings the way he speaks.

It comes down to which interpretation of a song you accept. There are those who go
to concerts of classical music and follow the score to intercept the mistakes. These folks exist in the folkie world too. They are more focussed on the accents then the content or performance of the song.

Folk music performance is often the presentation which falls into the category of
stagecraft. If the audience believes the performer is "real" than it makes no difference
to most what accent they acquire or affect.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 07:32 PM

"(Apologies to those who've had to wear leiderhausen or cowboy hats for the sake of a lucrative gig ... ) "

Leiderhausen - does that mean "to play havoc, unfortunately"? Seems appropriate.

Seriously though, if you learn a vocal technique for a particular genre, very often the accent comes with it, no doubt because of the mouth position you have to adopt, for the same reason that although I have difficulty pronouncing THs in English, I don't have the same problem in Welsh, which I learnt much later in life.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 22 May 11 - 01:01 AM

"Day dah light and mi waan go home". Nope, can't sing that in an Australian accent. Do the accent if the song calls for it.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 11 - 01:33 AM

Well, just to correct something said in 2008, it's Lederhosen (leather pants). When I'm speaking another language, I try to speak with a reasonably accurate accent. I don't like trying to speak what people imagine to be German-accented or Italian-accented whatever-accented English. Too easy to go into stereotypes.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 22 May 11 - 08:22 AM

I disagree quite a bit with you. I once heard an old recording of Ledbelly talking and couldn't understand a single word. Peggy Seeger still has a noticeable American accent, but probably due to Ewan McColl being very against American Folk she tended to sound much like him a lot of the time. Heaven forbid olk Hank had sang Raglan Road! not too many Irish singers sing it well. but I have heard a rare recording of him doing a folk song that had a distinctly trad English sound to it and you'd never have guessed it was Hank Singing. I'm not suggesting Hugh Laurie is much of a singer but hearing him murder the blues in a recent docu it was in a distinct if un convincing U.S accent that pretty much all white British Blues singers adopt. And most likely because the way Blues and Country Lyrics are written most voices will sound more american. As will most non Irish voices sound Irish if they sing Trad Irish songs. After all if you want to speak French or German and want to do it well then you have to sound a little French or German. By the way I think Pete Seeger does indeed sound like he's singing in his own voice, but because he has an American accent and does mainly American Folk. But you don't say just who are all these great voices who you say don't sing in accents?

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Musket
Date: 22 May 11 - 09:55 AM

I have a recording somewhere of Adge Cutler singing Rock & Roll in his Somerset accent..

Ooh Arrh, thisen nothin' but a hedgehog!
Get off moi brown suede gaitors!

I have spent many years in business and more recently having to have a degree of credibility in Whitehall. As a result, not by trying but naturally, my South Yorkshire / Derbyshire accent and dialect has disappeared. yet when I sing local songs, it comes back with knobs on.

Again, not by trying, just happens, that's all.

Mind you, if singing an American song, it does get all mid Atlantic if I am being honest.