BS: Football: Euro 2008

Subject: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 08:20 AM

Well, each team of the final round has played once to give a preliminary impression. The final sixteen are a fairly good selection of European teams. Of the European teams among the first twenty in the ELO ranking (which avoids some of the problems of the FIFA ranking) only England (rank 9; rank 7 among European teams) and Denmark (rank 17) have failed to qualify. The qualifying team with the highest rank is Poland, 30th in the world and 19th in Europe. Only if England (sorry, Denmark) had qualified the selection would have been even better. I'm sure in that case I wouldn't have had to start a thread about the tournament.

We have seen the highest defeat of Italy since 1970 (against Brazil), we have seen in the same game a difficult referee decision of no offside (followed by the first goal of Holland) which the coach of Italy (and his whole team) wrongly called offside even after having seen the slow motion (don't they know the rules of the game they play?), we have seen some spectacular goals.

My prediction for the final is Portugal (after having eliminated Germany in the semi-finals) beating Holland who just can't win a final.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 08:29 AM

I was hoping that, with none of the 'Home' countries qualifying, UK media wouldn't bother with Euro 2008 - Fat chance, it just means that the various media have cut back on their usual jingoistic hype.

So how long until it's all over?

W


Once upon a time the gap between the end of one football season and the beginning of the next used to be the Cricket season - now it seems, it's just the first weekend in August.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM

I was very impressed with Holland. Back to their very best.

My wife was also estatic over the Dutch win. Then she should be as she was born in Amsterdam :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 09:51 AM

Holland were great. I missed Spain last night, sadly. I thought Germany looked very good against a strong Poland side. So far I have enjoyed Holland the best. Portugal are always strong technically. However, the one side, which usually finds the extra as a tournament progresses is Germany. Their weakness could be on the left side of midfield. Podolski, usually a striker, did an excellent job there on Sunday. I fear there are teams, who will be able to stop him from operating there as effectively as he did in the first game. The tournament is wide open and there is a lot to play for.
I don't think England will be missed by many. We certainly have very fine players, but the team's miserable performances in the last two tournaments will mean that very few neutrals will be in any hurry to see them again.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 10:12 AM

Well we certainly don't have the extreme hype that we normally get when England get through to these competitions. Its like a breath of fresh air.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 11:35 AM

I have not much trust in the German defense if they play against a better team than Poland.

There is a move in Poland to expatriate Podolsky for playing for Germany. The boy has a German and a Polish passport.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 03:08 AM

Poor guy! I took my son to see him when he was playing for FC Köln. He duly obliged with a hat trick. When he scored his goals on Sunday night, he actually looked ashamed of himself. Still, he did not do his job any less ruthlessly.
Germany has no outstanding defender, but I reckon that if they keep their shape and discipline - and keep other teams busy enough on other parts of the park - they could well do enough to win it. Let's see! They play again tonight and there is everything to play for.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 05:51 AM

I asked a Polish neighbour what was his view on Podolsky, it is not for printing.   Holland, Potugal, Spain, and Germany have looked impressive, but don`t rule out Italy, they have a formidable record in all competitions.
Villan you are right with England not there the peace and quiet is very agreeable, John Motson surely take the award as the most biased commentator ever, but I do have the luxury of viewing on RTE the Irish panel is very good, Johnny Giles, Liam Brady and Eamon Dunphy, a very knowledgeable team.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 08:01 AM

Why are the Polish mad about Podolski whose parents left Poland when he was 2 years old but not about Miroslav Klose whose parents left Poland when he was 7 years old?

Klose's family were part of the official German minority in Poland, so it's good they left, whereas the Podolskis were Poles of German origin which is an officially not existing subcategory of Poles. They are all Poles. Period.

Ah, politics. Back to football now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 09:48 AM

Wolfgang I watched closely when the game finished and the body language was quite plain, Podolski and the Polish players were not keen on the handshakes, in fact Podloski should have been elated after scoring twice, he certainly wasn`t.
I can only relate that my Polish neighbour, to put it mildly, was far from happy.
Back to the football, which has been entertaining, I think Germany will see off Croatia this afternoon and join Portugal in the quarter final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 02:42 PM

Germany will have to delay their progress to the quarter final until the Austrian game, they were a well beaten side at the finish Croatia were by far the better side.
The referee was too quick in sending off Schweinsteiger he certainly was hard done by, it could have been on the word of the refs assistant,Schweinsteiger made a difference when he came on, along with Lamh he was Germanys best player. I hope he appeals he has a good chance of winning. I will back them to beat Austria in the next game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Arnie
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 04:45 PM

Well, I just can't get interested in the Euro finals without England there. I don't know how much the terrestial TV channels have paid to broadcast the competition but I reckon they've lost a pile of money on this one. I have a look at the highlights occasionally but that's as far as I go - whatever their faults when playing for England, it's just not the same without Rooney, Gerrard, Terry et al....

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 08:28 AM

No complaints with the football, the tournament is a breath of fresh air, we don`t have the "home"countries taking part all the better for that, no raving commentators telling us how good England are, enjoy, I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:19 AM

We was robbed!

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 02:39 AM

Now if the idea that Poles should play for Poland and Germans for Germany had been aired on a folk music thread in the form that Poles should sing Polish folk songs and the Germans German ones, what an outcry there would have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:18 AM

Poor George - The Greeks didn't do very well, but better than England
You need to support Holland now :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:38 AM

If the Turks continue to entertain as they did in the second half against the Czechs, turning Turk will have a new meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:11 AM

Ooo-raan-je, Les!
Though I might also give the Turkish cousins a cheer.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:38 AM

And there was me thinking you would want the Dutch to beat the Turks George :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:11 PM

The Netherlands vs France was one of the finest games I have ever seen.

They say this was the biggest upset for the Frogs in the past 50 years. I believe it. (Unlike some countries I doubt there will be torture or murder for missed goals upon return home.)

The first goal with a header from a corner kick was true "Brillant Orange!"

WHAT an offence in the second half! Three GOOoooooAAaaaLLlllSSsss.

This is Football at its best!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:31 AM

The Austria v Germany game was a bore from start to finish by far the worst game I have seen in this championship.
The referee banished the two managers to the stand for constantly berating the fourth official, I thought the two teams deserved that punishment, Ballack`s brilliant free kick goal the only highlight, hoping for a better game to-night between France and Italy.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 10:14 AM

Well, I have to change my prediction of Portugal beating Germany in the semifinal to doing it in the quarter finals. Germany was reminding me of those two decades not too far ago when they just couldn't play the game. But I've seen a second highlight in the game against Austria: How Gomez could not score in the second minute of the game was (for me as a watcher) a new world record in "shortest distance to the goal line and not scoring without any defensive action involved".

"Orange boven". My god, how they played against a good(!) French team that would have beaten most other teams on the same night was impressing. Germans are supposed never to support the Dutch whoever they play but I cannot but admire them.

The tournament suffers from two bad rules that I hope will be changed next time:
(1) The rule that in case of a tie in points the team that has lost the direct comparison qualifies first leads to too many groups in which the winner was known after only two games, because the runner up could win as high as they wanted and would still be second, if they had lost against the winner. Knowing for sure that you are first before the last game leads to boring games with some unusual results.
(2) In most other tournaments I remember two teams from the same group could only meet a second time in the final. Here, they can only meet in the semifinals. This leads to the perverse situation that Holland could eliminate tonight both Italy and France at the same time by losing against Romania and could this way make sure that the presumably two best remaining teams in that half, France and Italy, will not be their opposition in the semi-finals.

This unusual rule also leads to the situation that before it all started we knew that one finalist (leaving out the chaff) would come from Croatia, Portugal, Germany and the other would come from Spain, Italy, France, or Holland. Any of exiting finals like France-Italy could not happen.

I'd prefer them to draw lots after each round to determine who plays against whom with the single restriction that (as long as this is possible) the opponent would be no team a team has already played against. This would disallow choosing a presumably weaker opponent by losing a game.

For the worst game I've seen so far I agree with Ard, for the best I nominate Holland-France but for exitement, emotion, and suspense I nominate Turkey-Czechs.

More than one third of the golas scored so far have been scored by players not born in the country they play for.
BTW, all German goals have been scored by players not born in the Federal Republic of Germany. Podolski comes from Poland and Ballack has been born in the GDR.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 02:05 PM

Never write off the Germans, that is the old saying in the soccer world, they won`t be easy for any team, what a pity indeed Wolfgang if France and Italy are eliminated, the Dutch won`t bust a gut trying, two massive teams on the verge of going out, what would you do if you managed Holland?.
Italy would really feel sore they have been on the wrong end of some awful refereeing decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:37 PM

Well, it's Italy then, so we can look forward to a new Holland-Italy match in the semi-finals.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:55 PM

Fair play to Holland even with their second eleven they proved too good for a poor Romanian team, Italy`s luck returned in bucket loads. Ribery I thought was the best player in the Championship, when he had to leave the field through injury the French cause was lost.
Plenty to look forward to, Holland won`t be overstretched meeting either Sweden or Russia, Portugal v Germany very interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:02 PM

I wanted to see France win tonight, but some of their horrible fouls made me less sympathetic to their cause. It was rotten luck to lose Ribery, although the German commentator was suggesting that he had actually fouled his opponent in the collision which led to his injury. Italy's second goal (an own goal by Henri) was a bit of a fluke, I will admit. However, Italy did look the more positive and coherent team tonight - even before they had an advantage of a goal and an extra man.
It was always likely that Holland would only have a run out this evening. Back to business on Saturday I guess. It's shaping up nicely for the knock out phase.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:05 AM

Praise be the UK

Is out of it!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Or this thread would be gushing over with another invasion of the Mudcat reaching 10,000 posts

/wolfie - the low-landers and frogs have no love lost for the huns.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:52 AM

I love the Euro 2008 coverage on TV.. it means I can catch up on all the programmes I've recorded and not had time to watch, or listen to those new CD's I've not had time to listen to.

When a colleague at work starts talking about football, I start talking about quilting patterns... but that wouldn't work here, there are too many quilters!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Les from Hull
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:29 PM

Talking about quilting patterns Liz, have you tried 4-4-2?

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:45 PM

Well played Russia great football, crowned by two brilliantly worked goals. The Swedish team looked well past their sell-by date, they were lucky escaping with a two goal defeat, the only fault with Russia was not finishing some sweeping moves, an enjoyable game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 03:28 AM

They did look handy, didn't they? If they keep the ball moving and don't give it away, they should be able to test the Dutch. Their finishing will need to improve though, won't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 07:37 AM

Any tips for tonight's game? It looks pretty tough for the Germans. Their most successful striker to date, Lucas Podolski, was barely able to walk yesterday and Torsten Frings has a broken rib. Frings did not look on top of his game to me, so that may not be such a huge loss. However, Poldi is not just a useful striker, he is a naturally left footed player, who gives Germany a distinct advantage in the box. The Potuguese look in form and able to play the ball faster and with better technique. On paper they should coast it. Jürgen Löw, the German trainer, is also banished to the stand tonight. The Germans won't like that. They will still be looking to make a game of it though. Philip Lahm has hardly put a foot wrong in defence so far and Ballack is due for one of his big games. I would put my money on the clever Scolari and his technicians to outwit the Germans. On the other hand, we have had a spot of rain here in Köln today. It would only need a bit of a downpour in Austria tonight and the Portuguese would not like it a bit! I am looking forward to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:12 AM

The ELO ranking to which I have linked in the first post has predicted nearly perfectly which two teams would succeed in the first round of the tournament. Only Turkey should have been behind the Czech Republic due to ELO. All other groups (even the elimination of France) were as predicted by ELO. And Turkey? Well, you remember that the Czechs were on their way to a sure victory when their otherwise brilliant goalkeeper made a beginner's mistake. Such a fluke is beyond the ability of the ELO ranking.

So, you'd like to know what ELO predicts for the quarter finals?

Germany beats Portugal
Holland beats Russia
Croatia beats Turkey
Spain beats Italy (very closely)

I don't agree with the first and the fourth prediction. Spain isn't a team for a tournament and there is only one way I can see Germany winning (by penalties after a boring 1:1; more likely in my eyes is an easy 2:0 for Portugal)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 01:17 PM

I can see to-nights game going to extra time, Germany are grinders and Portugal might need Ronaldo to get some penalty practice. Alan I would rate Lamh as good as any mid-fielder in the tournament, Portugal beware the Germans they have been there before.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 02:15 PM

Germany changes from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1 if I read the line-up correctly.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 04:45 PM

Boy, was I wrong. It was a good game from both teams and everything else but boring, each team playing the strengths they have. Portugal was often better than Germany and just had a tiny bit less luck. They lost it on standard situations for allowing two headers that were not extremely difficult to block.

Schweinsteiger (often wrongly translated as "pig climber" in the English press; "man from the pigsty" would be correct) has impressed me. The first German goal was as good as goals can be in preparation and finish. It nearly looked like a goal from Holland.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 04:52 PM

Yes and they are there again, never write off the Germans, overall the better team, although the third goal should not have stood, Ballack clearly pushed the Portugal defender.
The Schweinsteiger goal was the result of excellent football, the other two German goals were due to a porous Portugal defence, they could not deal with the high ball.

So the great grinders move on and no team will be looking forward to meeting them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 05:11 PM

Yes, Ballack did push, but then again, the free kick was awarded for a horrible foul on Klose, which could well have broken some bones. I thought Germany were very good tonight. They deserved to win and even an obviously tired Lucas Podolski and another excellent night's work from Philip Lahm, as ard mhacha said, made Germany look like real challengers. I am looking forward to Holland Russia now.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Den
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 10:56 AM

Come on Croatia!

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:53 PM

I fancy them to beat Turkey, but I don't think they are going to become the first team to beat Germany twice in one tournament. We will all be wiser in a week's time...

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Euro Fan
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:35 PM

I am enjoying Euro 2008 but I think it's time referees and assistant referees went to Specsavers. I see Van Nistelrooy still resorts to even more ridiculous dives in the area than when he played for united.

He has this inclination to over-emphasise tackles, to fall over theatrically to try to win fouls, and usually does.

Nistelrooy's favourite is to dive on the edge of the penalty area to win a free, or when he doesn't win a penalty he stands amazed with that horse mouth open. Why doesn't he get booked after he crashes theatrically to the ground or arms flailing when he goes down inside the area ?


He has skill, and is a clinical finisher when he wants to. When I watch Holland I now expect him to throw in a couple of obligatory dives and wait for one referee to see it and book him.

"Van Nistelrooy has perfected his skill of going down as if hit by a bullet and remain there perfectly still to convince a referee that a serious injury has occurred. It seems to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 07:12 PM

Well so far I've got 2/2 QFs wrong. I'll have to change my predictions to Russia and Italy to winning the others... But no, I'll stick with the Netherlands beating Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 12:41 AM

Oh my god Jon, you have put the mockers on Holland. My Dutch wife won't be very pleased with you :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 04:36 AM

On paper the Netherlands should beat Russia. What will be interesting to see is how much the tragedy affecting Boulahrouz affects the rest of the team. His prematurely born daughter died this week. There really are some things more important than football.
The Croatians rotten finishing effectively ended their own chances last night. I did not like the Turks shirt pulling and rough house tackling, but they beat a side considerably better than themselves, for which they deserve some credit. For Germany, with its large Turkish population, the next game will undoubtedly be the biggest of the tournament. If the Turks win on Wednesday, there will be no point in anyone going to bed much before five o' clock on Thursday morning!

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 09:37 AM

The TV pundits must have been viewing another game,Turkey v Croatia was 90 minutes of punishment only coming to life in extra time, if ever a team deserved to lose it was Croatia this supposedly superior side were woeful.
It looks like the Nederlands can beat Russia but they have the hardest side of the draw if they do win awaiting them are Italy or Spain, but beware the big bad Germans who are heading for the Final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 12:15 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Les from Hull - PM
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:29 PM

Talking about quilting patterns Liz, have you tried 4-4-2?


Yes I did Les, but made a mistake and went 4-2-4- in the third row... completely buggered me blocks it did.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 05:16 PM

You are a jinx Jon

van Basten showed his inexperience by adopting the wrong tactics.
Why didn't he approach it like he did in the group.
He was too scared.

Its amazing how managere get scared and play defensively when in actual fact they do not need to.

Ah well good luck Russia.

Now to console my missus

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 05:18 PM

I'm sorry Vilan.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 05:26 PM

You need to be Jon. I have the sandbags out becuase my wifes tears are so bad, I am worried about floods :-)
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 07:24 PM

Russia played DEFENSE...then suddenly showed some amazing OFFENSE. They deserved the win.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 06:42 AM

I fear for the Germans on Wednesday. All the quarter finals have gone against the form book so far - and I fancy Italy to improve and send Spain home tonight. Turkey are unlikely to beat Germany in an open game, but they are masters of the shirt tug and the sly off the ball foul. I expect them to work on Ballack and Schweinsteiger, both of whom have been known to lose their rag at persistent fouling in the past. If they can get one of those players carded early on, they could pull the Germans' teeth before they get started. Somehow I don't expect it to be pretty to watch.
Well done the Russians. It looks like they are coming to life.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 01:44 PM

I had posted a comment on the Russian win, must have been wiped out like the Dutch were,best football yet from a really smooth Russian side, Holland were flattered by the scoreline it could have been 5 or 6.
To-night I will stay with Italy like the Germans they are not a team you would bet against.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 07:23 PM

Italy could not hit penalty kicks (well, the Spanish goalkeeper made some good guesses)...that's why *I* never bet on sports.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 07:26 PM

I don't suppose anyone but me thinks that low scoring, tie games are a problem. It sure makes important matches seem silly when needing to be settled by kicks.

What about making the goal a foot wider on each end?

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 07:45 PM

If both teams are so negative that they are only interested in not conceding a goal, I reckon a penalty shootout is deserved.

But no, that doesn't cover every situation, and I don't have an answer for knockout competitions.

I'd prefer no goalkeeper during extra time to your suggestion but...

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 09:10 PM

.hmmm...now THAT's an idea. I rather like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 12:53 AM

Well done Spain! They deserved it, because they played the more positive football all the way through. Who would have expected such a young team to win against Italy on penalties? I would have bet against it.
It looks like another surprise winner for the competition. I would not bet on anyone now!

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Euro 2008 fan
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 03:35 AM

It's still wide open Alan. We must acknowledge the behaviour of all supporters,they have been great and enjoying a carnival atmosphere.

No blow up Spitfire balloons, no Nazi salutes, no chants "We won the war". No throwing tables and chairs through shop windows or head butting people in the street. Why ? Because there is no British football thugs there, that's why.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 05:29 AM

Sorry i`m late I have just awoke after that coma inducing wake of a game, in boxing the ref after a couple of rounds calls both fighters together and if they don`t want to fight he throws both of them out of the ring, Italy v Spain merited this punishment.
No wonder the US have never taken to Soccer, seeing how Italy and Spain went through the motions is it any wonder.
An otherwise good tournament being taken down to mediocre level by two so-called giants of Europe, Russia you may not win the Championship but thanks for a breath of fresh air your method of playing dosen`t always gets what it deserves, but you have really brightened up this fare.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 08:11 AM

I saw it slightly differently. To me it looked as if an hour passed before the Italians decided to join in. I'll agree that it wasn't pretty. Spain were at least trying to play, but it was hard to see what they could do against those tactics. Let's just hope the semi finals are an improvement. I think they will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 03:22 PM

Most of the English supporters behaviour at the World Cup here two years ago was exemplary. They were playing football with the Swedish fans in the local parks. They came, they drank, they sang and they joined in the party. The only incident they were involved in here in Köln was when they were attacked by a bunch of neo-Nazi thugs in the Altstadt. That is what both the police said and my Irish friends, who witnessed it as they were working in the Altstadt at the times.
There is a riff raff element, which does tag along at times. I despise them as much as anyone else here. It is quite unfair to tar all of us England fans with the same brush. I am no more violent than anyone else here. Any of you who are near me are more than welcome to join me for a beer at a game of football. And I'll bet we'll part friends whatever the result. Bugger fighting, it's football that we are interested in.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 01:43 PM

Before this Thread is relegated, Germany v Russia for the Final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 01:50 PM

That's probably the way to bet. I expect it to be a close call though.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 02:19 PM

After I was consistently wrong in my predictions I'm sure you'd like to know that I now think the final will be Spain vs. Germany.

Germany - Turkey might have been a game to fear for what might happen after the game but all the newspapers with the big letters in Germany (both Turkish and German) have chosen not to play on jingoistic feelings but to emphasize the friendship angle. I hope that helps. I see lots of cars with both the German and the Turkish flag. I have even seen a photo of a "united" flag, namely the Turkish flag as the red bit in the German flag.

BTW, there is a continuously increasing trend in World and European championships for the games after the group phase to be decided in extra time and/or on penalties. The percentage of wins is much higher in the group phase. And since with the exception of the hosts the teams in the group phase are already selected for strength that is a bit surprising.

A game like Turkey vs. Croatia makes me think it might be an improvement if two teams were allowed to agree on a penalty decision (one penalty each of the 11) instead of having actually to play before the penalties. So one has the suspense without the boring two hours before.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:50 PM

A very good game and again Germany are in another final, listening now to Eamon Dunphy in a fiery argument with Liam Brady, Dunphy has castigated the German team from the start, he is at loggerheads now with Brady who has maintained that you cannot deny the Germans doggedness.
I hope to-morrows game is as good, come on Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:53 PM

Bye the way have those rich Swiss not got a shilling for the meter,so many TV break-downs..

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 05:13 AM

The game last night did not have a lot of classy football, but it was exciting. Despite their injuries and suspension problems, I thought the Turks dominated for much of the match. They were also basically fair in the way they played, which I had not expected. They effectively neutered Michael Ballack and Bastian Schweinsteiger, without resorting to rough house tactics. In truth, I thought they deserved to win. Even Philip Lahm, who has been uniformly excellent, looked out of sorts last night. He scored a fine goal at the end though, which is what most people will remember as the climax of a dramatic match.
Tonight's match should be a good one. I won't be betting either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 06:07 AM

I admit the Turks were excellent, a combination of good football and fighting spirit, but and a big but, the Germans did what they are famous for on the field, winning.
Looking at the posts on ITV [UK] `footy notes`, the Germans are being cast as as a very lucky team, you have to be very lucky to appear in 6 European Finals, what did the man say?, `the more I practice the luckier I get`.
The overall comments are in agreement, apart from a couple of games, this has been a good tournament,

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 07:39 AM

Das deutsche Spiel war lahm (The German game was lame). That is not only a wordplay with the name of the scorer of the last goal. Lahm (lame), in his person, showed both sides of the German game: really bad in the defense but determined and effective in the attack.

The German defense was (I translate the German expression) as well organised as a flock of chicken. Lehmann showed why he should declare the end of his career immediately after his next game. The defenders did "mark" the Turkish players as if that meant to make sure to be in a comfortable position to watch them scoring. Ballack was close to invisible.

Turkey has finally run out of luck. They needed a lot of luck to come that far but yesterday they had a lot of bad luck not reach the final.

One commentary said the Germans play each time as bad or good as they think the other team will play before the game. They expected Portugal to be really strong and played well, the expected Turkey to play bad and never could recover when the Turks played much better than expected.

My only consolation is that they will not expect either Russia or Spain to play bad. BTW, a quick poll showed that most Germans by far prefer Spain. I was not polled but I agree.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM

Wolfgang Your country`s record in all Competitions is on a par with the very best, from away back in 1954 all of those great stars that did the impossible and beat the great Hungarians, this competitive spirit rarely deserts them when they reach the World or European Cups. I would think Spain will have to play way above themselves to beat Russia, Germany lies in wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 10:15 AM

"The defenders did "mark" the Turkish players as if that meant to make sure to be in a comfortable position to watch them scoring."

The funniest and probably most accurate comment, which I have read yet about last night's game. I guess that at the end of the day, the Germans did enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 04:52 PM

A complete victory for Spain from start to finish, Russia were outclassed all over the field. The Spanish team`s football was excellent, how Fabregas dosen`t start is a mystery, surely he will start in the final and why substitute Torres? amazing decisions.
I can`t see the Germans caving in like the Russians, could be a great final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Dave_
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 06:38 PM

Very enjoyable thread, I have enjoyed all the comments to date. Living here in Spain the Spanish people are just starting to realise they are in the final, the team should have done better in the last World Cup, they are now just starting to get it right.
An intriguing final awaits us all, my money is again on Spain, but the Germans wont be a push over.
Fabregas is my man of the tournament.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:25 AM

Talking about the man of the tournament don`t forget that brilliant French player Ribery, he had the misfortune to be injured in the Italy game, he will be out for the next two months,and yes Fabregas was brilliant last night,why does the Spanish coach not start him in each game, this is amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 10:33 AM

I thought the Spaniards were wonderful last night. I only watched the second half, but it was enough to tell me that Germany had better watch out on Sunday. Their defence looked seamless and the grace with which they played the ball forward was something I have not seen since the heady days of France in 1998.
In an earlier post, Wolfgang correctly mentioned that the Spaniards have tended to put on one or two good performances early on and then "bottle it" in big tournaments. Judging by their breezy confidence last night and the fact that they held their nerves so well in the penalty shoot out on Sunday, only a fool would bank on that happening this time.
I think Germany, who were lucky to stay in on Wednesday, will raise their game on Sunday. However, it is hard to see what they can do to beat these Spaniards if they retain the concentration and artistry which they showed last night. I thought they were great.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Wolfgang (on a wrong computer)
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:43 AM

I'm looking forward to tonight's match. Germany will have to play at least as good as against Portugal o have a chance.

What speaks for Spain:
(1) This team (that is, the core of it) has won the U17, the U19, the U21 in Europe and now they are old enough...scorned any ongratulationssc
(2) They have played well or brilliant all games during this championship with the possible exception of a couple of minutes against Sweden.
(3) They are hungry. After the semifinals the Germany players said that they are very happy and will try just to enjoy the final. The Spanish players declined to acept any congratulations and said they had not reached anything yet for they have come to win.
(4) So far, I'd elect 4 Spanish and 1-2 German (Lahm + ?) players into the team of the tournament.

Despite that my gut feeling this time is Germany. They are in their 13th final of world or European championships (6 wins, 6 losses so far).

Just BTW: Record on penalties Germany 6, 5 won
                              Spain 5, 2 won

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 06:10 AM

From their respective performances on Wednesday, you have to favour the Spaniards. They moved the ball with stylish ease and fluency against the tough and fit Russians until they outpassed them by a yard. That was all the distance needed with that class of finishing. The Germans finished well, but their defence (with the possible exception of Arno Friedrich) was as laughably inept as Wolfgang described it. It is unthinkable that they will play that badly against Spain tonight, but the Spaniards will be relishing the suspect centre backs and a goalkeeper, whose handling is not exactly Gordon Banks.
Bad news for the Germans is that Michael Ballack has calf strain and is looking doubtful for tonight. That may not be such a big blow. He is undoubtedly their leader and a match winner on his day. Unfortunately, in this tournament, he could well be in the running for an award as the most disappointing player. If the Germans come up with a tactical plan to force the Spaniards to play the game at an uncomfortable tempo, they could be in with a chance. Football is an unpredictable game at the best of times. I am optimistic about tonight though. Both teams have every reason to go out and strut their stuff. I am looking forward to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:51 PM

Spain the best team in the tournament got their due reward to-night worthy European Champions.
The Germans did their best but were inept up front, Lamh was badly at fault for the winning goal,Torres muscled him out, but there was no denying Spain their football throughout was excellent.
Still I am more than happy our gaelic football county Armagh beat arch rivals Down in the semi-final of the Ulster Championship, as good as winning the Lotto.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:53 PM

Yes, Spain deserved it. Germany gave all they had, but it was not enough. Well done both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 05:28 PM

The Germans did their best but were inept up front They weren't up to much at the back either...

Good to see a competition won by a team that played the game the way it's meant to be played.

I haven't seen any reports about ructions among the fans either. It sounds as if the absence of the British fans may have made a significant difference in that respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM

I am glad there were not any ructions from the fans too Kevin. The commentators on TV here said that Spain were worthy winners and had won it fair and square. Most Germans are disappointed of course, but they will take it in good part.
I hope that the absence of UK fans was not the only reason it was peaceful though. Certainly they caused no trouble when they were here two years ago for the Sweden match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 05:53 PM

I don't think it's so much that it's the hooligan minority among English fans who cause all the trouble directly. But my impression is that their presence in this kind of event in the past may have tended to serve as a kind of challenge to hooligans from other countries.

Or perhaps it's just that the English tabloids weren't hyping up whatever may have taken place in the way of ructions, since it wouldn't have involved English fans. Rather on the lines of the tradition of "Earthquake in China. English teacher missing."

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: GUEST,Euro 2008 fan
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 08:48 PM

I agree it was a great tournament and Spain were worthy winners.

I do believe the fact there were no English supporters present to be the reason the authorities hailed the tournament totally trouble free.
There have been 25 incidents at away fixtures involving one English club alone(Liverpool)since 2003.

I doubt we will have much trouble from English fans abroad in the future as now every police force in the world know their reputation and few are as soft as our lot !

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:20 AM

"I don't think it's so much that it's the hooligan minority among English fans who cause all the trouble directly. But my impression is that their presence in this kind of event in the past may have tended to serve as a kind of challenge to hooligans from other countries."

Sadly I think there is some truth in that. I recall hearing an otherwise perfectly normal young man telling me back in 1988 how much he enjoyed the fighting around the English football hooligans. The kick for those young men is violence, not football. At times I sympathise with the Pamela Stephenson character in the Not The Nine O'Clock News. She played a social worker, who declared that the answer was to, "Cut their goolies off". I dislike the hooligans as much as anyone else here. I just resent the assumption that fans of the England football team will inevitably behave disgracefully. That is a dangerous assumption, which can quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I am wandering a bit off message here though. It was a good tournament with plenty of fine football and happy sporting memories.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:58 AM

McGrath the defence conceded one goal, now I wouldn`t be too hard on any defence that comes out of a game with one defensive lapse.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:06 AM

There was no real suspense (who might win) in the final after about 15 minutes. Nonetheless it was a high quality game. The Spanish contributed to the high q

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:18 AM

...uality 90 minutes of their game, the Germans contributed their first 15 minutes and about 5 minutes in the second half. The final was much more one-sided than the result indicates.

Next time there will be probably 24 finalists. We call that the "lex England" for it increases the chances that England much needed from a financial angle might be able to qualify safely.

If that doesn't help we could learn from the Eurovision song contest how to ensure that the largest countries are all in the final.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:48 PM

Yes Wolfgang, ensuring that England qualify they have to move the goalposts, and maybe even the team that beat Spain in the qualifiers N Ireland might do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:24 PM

Yes that puts Northern Ireland's team into an even better light. And didn't David Healy get some sort of recognition for his many qualification goals? Apart from the MBE?

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:54 PM

It could have been six or seven goals, if the Spanish had been a but more precise in their finishing. Which would have killed off the game, of course.
.......................

As for hooligans, maybe there should be a parallel event dedicated to that in some other country. When the countries compete to host the next World Cup, the runner up could given the privilege of hosting the hooligan event.

I'm sure the tabloids in England would get behind "our lads", off to battle with the Germans and the Poles and Italians and Dutch fans. Sponsored by the makers of some crap lager.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:05 AM

You've got it Kevin Let the hooligans f**k off and pursue their own hobby elswhere and beat each other into extinction. Then the rest of us can enjoy our football in peace. I bet the Sun and the Star would stop following football at all. We might even see the end of those racist stereotypes of continentals...

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:02 AM

Very good Alan. Wise words.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:12 AM

Les, There is no explaining how Healy who struggles to find a place in Fulhams team can become the record European goalscorer [13 goals] in a very poor N Ireland team, this man scores a hat-trick against the European Champions and yet he wouldn`t fetch peanuts in the transfer market. Explain anyone?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football: Euro 2008
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 09 - 10:08 AM

MANCHESTER, England (AFP) - Manchester United have agreed to sell Cristiano Ronaldo to Real Madrid for a world record 80 million pounds, the club said Thursday.