Cuba, will the USA be last?

Subject: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:20 AM

Will the USA be the last country in the world (or is it now) to lift santions against Cuba? Extremenly odd, considering the record of some of the world nations it has and had good relations with since 1959.

News summary:
"The European Union (EU) has agreed to lift diplomatic sanctions against the Cuban regime and open a dialogue with Havana, a move that is expected to draw criticism from Washington and Cuban dissidents, EFE news agency reported on Friday".


http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=896c5181-3a5b-4685-bc42-e513f7e199b3&&Headline=EU+to+lift+sanctions+on

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:24 AM

In a word, yes, it will be the last. Reminds me of the Bob Dylan lines,

.......the order is
rapidly fadin'.
and the first one now
will later be last
for the times they are a-changin'.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:25 AM

Gee, how nice of the EU.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:28 AM

(On the rare occasions I can afford it, I've smoked Cuban cigars bought legally (or brought back legally). But then we didn't join the boycott frenzy when it was all the rage.

Signed,

A Canuck

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:33 AM

**WHY** can't folks remember to put things in the BS section? The list is right there when you go to start a new thread.

Who me? grumpy? naawwwwww....

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:36 AM

Hmm USA may well turn out to be last, but if you have a look here, looks like someone is still paying attention to the legal situation...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jun/16/lloydstsbgroup.banking?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:36 AM

It'll be moved automatcially by a mudclone or mudelf

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:43 AM

It's bad enough that the USA has spent 40 years blockading and trying to destabilise Cuba, but it's absolutely indefensible that they use their legal system to affect the relationship between other countries and Cuba.

Just in case it affects anyone here, I no longer make payments to Lloyds TSB accounts. That makes me feel better!!!!

Phil

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:49 AM

And in my indignation, I forgot:

In 2001, when I was cycling in Cuba, we watched a United Airlines flight from Miami arrive at Holguin. Apparently this was a regular scheduled flight, despite the US embargo. Seats available only to Cuban expats living in USA.

The embargo is not one of principle, just a demonstration of naked political and financial power. This also apllies to the continued occupation of Guantanamo.

Phil

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:29 PM

My bank - a British one - the TSB - has been threatened by the USA with legal action if they do not cease from from dealing with customers who deal with Cuba. As Tom Paxton once wrote get out of the way we're the cops of the world.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:36 PM

The US doesn't like us dealing with Cuba, either. Tough shit, huh?

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:54 PM

Sorry about the improper placement.

A well deserved and duly accepted "duh" award for Ed T :)

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:26 PM

There are US citizens who travel to Cuba legally, with the blessings of the State Department; my daughter, for one, who did her study abroad in Cuba through a long-running Michigan State University program. There were other American college groups there, she said.
    The reason the US won't legitimize relations with Cubs is electoral politics: the large number of Cuban-American voters in Florida who hate Castro and the Communists and would vote against anyone who dares suggest normalizing relations with Havana. Florida is a swing state--sometimes it goes for Democrats, sometimes Republicans--and was rhe deciding factor in the 2000 presidential election. (Thanks, Florida.) Until we elect a president with the guts to stand up to Florida's anti-Cuba voters, we'll be stuck with the status quo.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:40 PM

"Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work compared with others is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support" (from here).

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:56 PM

The music industry? Is this thread about the music industry...?I don't think so So WAV, take it elsewhere, if you don't mind!

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Midlands UK
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 02:57 PM

The Hooded Silhouette BASS PLAYER NEEDED

We formed late 2007, as a 3 piece rock band. Looking forward to 2008, getting out gigging and having a good time doing it! Gigs are being lined up and we hope to get out there and impress as soon as possible. To give you a brief band history; the three of us met whilst on the same Music Technology course at college, all competent musicians struggling to find anyone who is interested in playing the styles of music we wish to participate in.

With a line change early in the year whereby Luke switched to guitar, meaning that "The Hooded Silhouette" are on the lookout for a bass player. Know anyone who would like to join or fancy it yourself, please get in touch with us. We'd be mighty appreciative).

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 03:06 PM

"News summary:
"The European Union (EU) has agreed to lift diplomatic sanctions against the Cuban regime and open a dialogue with Havana, a move that is expected to draw criticism from Washington and Cuban dissidents, EFE news agency reported on Friday"."

Is good news. The Cuban Regime is not without its problems but it is way ahead of all sorts of evil regimes the US has supported and trades with - China and Saudi Arabia to mention two.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,International Folk Music Finals
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 03:29 PM

International Folk Music Finals

Does anyone have the results? Was Cuba or China represented? Japan always has had some splendid compositions each year and so does Spain so we know that the Asians and Hispanics have a representation. What are the problems with Cuba and China participaton.

Found nothing here although there is are headers. http://www.songvault.fm/directory/folk.htm

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 03:59 PM

Washington DC & the Fla. Cuban dissidents never have had the good will of the American public at heart only their hands in our pockets.
Just the trade alone between our two countries would do a lot for the good will of both. Although for the past number of year some trade has been going on & some attempts have been made to open it up the santions have only hurt the working & poor classes of both nations it doesn't effect the upper classes nor the government of either. Castro has been functioning without US for near 50 yrs, he'd like US but he doesn't need US. We could do just as well without him & his nation but we'd both be far better off if we were partners & friends. (gasp!)
Cuba is far more respected in the island nations that line our coastlines then we are, it'd be nice to earn some of that respect back again.

Barry

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 05:22 PM

If the U. S government was smart, they would normalize relations. Unfortunately, politics doesn't appeal to the best and brightest. The Anti-Castro Cubans living here in the U.S have been instrumental through the vote in keeping pressure on the government to not normalize relations. Hopefully, this will change with teh next administration. Neil

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 03:29 PM

US downplays EU's lifting its Cuba sanctions

15 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — The United States downplayed the European Union's decision to lift its sanctions on Cuba, even after a White House official a day earlier called it disappointing.

"The US and the European Union share common objectives in Cuba: freedom, democracy and universal human rights," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Friday.

On Thursday, National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said Washington was "disappointed" at the EU decision, which he said should have come after human rights conditions improved in Cuba.

McCormack refused to describe the US reaction as disappointment, saying: "This is a tactical difference."

"From our consultations ... we understand that the European Union will set human rights benchmarks for its dialogue with the Cuban government," including the release of political prisoners, respect for civil and political rights and freedom of information for all Cubans.

"These benchmarks send the right message about what is important: the need for the Cuban government to change the way it treats its citizens," McCormack said, adding the EU was expected to announce its conditions for normal relations with Cuba next week.

EU foreign ministers took the decision to lift Cuba sanctions in principle late Thursday on the sidelines of an EU summit in Brussels.

The move, which is to become official on Monday, is a largely symbolic gesture as the sanctions have been suspended since 2005. They were imposed in 2003 after Cuba jailed 75 dissidents.

In Cuba, the EU decision greatly disappointed opposition groups who had campaigned for the European sanctions to continue until Cuba made real strides toward democracy.

Former president Fidel Castro was also not pleased by the EU decision, which in a newspaper commentary he branded "a great hypocrisy," since the it comes only days after a "brutal" immigration law was passed in Europe that makes illegal immigration a crime punishable with up to 18 months in prison.

Castro, 81, also slammed the EU's sanctions lifting decision because, he said, it is conditioned on human rights progress and democratic reforms in Cuba.

State Department spokesman Tom Casey on Thursday cautioned US friends and allies to "be cognizant of not taking actions that would appear to give additional legitimacy" to the Cuban regime.

Dissident groups in Cuba on Friday said six more among them were placed under arrest in Matanzas, 100 kilometers (63 miles) east of Havana,

Dissident groups have been warning that since Raul Castro, 77, took over from his ailing brother Fidel in February, they could appreciate no easing of the relentless repression of the communist regime.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,ED T
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 03:43 PM

One trader view:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/12/world/americas/12cuba.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 04:00 PM

2kg of sugar for $1.19Cdn here in Atlantic Canada.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 03:22 PM

I agree with the Cuban Embassy's view of the US sanctions.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:34 AM

Canada and Cuba have been on friendly terms for many years. So has Canada and the USA. However we or at least most of us find the Helms-Burton law a total disgrace to our friendly relations.
About a year ago I tried to purchase a laptop computer from Dell (Canada) ordering by phone. The agent asked if I intended taking the computer to Cuba. I asked why she considered it any of her business where I took the computer? I was told that they would not sell me a computer unless I answered the question because it could be used to help build weapons of "mass destruction". I asked where she was located and was told "Ottawa". I then told her where she could find a secure storage area for said computer and bought one somewhere else.
However I was deeply offended that anybody would try to apply the Helms-Burton law to me. Both of these idiots should be sentenced to six months watching the movie Sicko.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 01:40 AM

I forgot to add:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms-Burton_Act

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 08:10 AM

Most countries usually tend to avoid extraterritorial legislation, as it is offensive to normal principles of sovereignty.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 09:30 AM

The generation of Cuban-Americans growing up in Miami and elsewhere generally think the embargo is stupid: "Look, Grampa, I'm an American. I've been in the US Army. I've gone to US schools. I've never been to Cuba, I have only your stories of Cuba. Dad was only six years old when you brought him here -- he barely remembers the place. We're not going to get the old homestead back even if both Castros dropped dead right now and Cuba changed to a US-approved government immediately thereafter. The old ways are gone, deader'n Batista. Like, live with it."

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: danensis
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 10:02 AM

Aren't most of the Cubans in America the dope-dealers, pimps and exploiters who were thrown out when the Castro government took control?

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 11:37 AM

Some, but not all. What do you mean by "exploiter"? Some were shop owners and other small business folks who were frightened off by rumors. Others were wealthy owners of large "plantations" who knew what was going to happen.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 03:56 PM

Reading the actual text of the "declaration" my impression was that there were so many conditions applied that it really amounted to little more than a bit of "diplomatic posturing."

In his blog a couple of days later, Castro (Fidel) apparently saw it much the same way that I did, describing it as "hypocrisy" and an insult.

It will take a while to see whether it actually amounts to much of anything, but I don't see that Castro has any great expectations that much will change. I'm afraid I don't see a lot of significance to it, or that it actually changes much of anything, for now.

Maybe later.

John

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Edt T
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 07:50 PM

Cuban Pete


http://www.jibjab.com/view/138327

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 08:32 PM

Sorry, the link

http://www.jibjab.com/view/138327

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Edt T
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 11:45 AM

EU ends sanctions against Cuba
www.chinaview.cn 2008-06-24 21:06:02                  Print

    BRUSSELS, June 24 (Xinhua) -- The European Union (EU) has officially put an end to sanctions against Cuba, a news release from the EU Council said here Tuesday.

    The EU reaffirmed its determination to pursue dialogue with the Cuban authorities as well as with representatives of civil society at a EU ministerial meeting, which formally abolished the five-year sanctions, in Luxembourg.

    The decision to lift the sanctions on Cuba was made at an EU summit last Friday but formally endorsed by EU agriculture ministers in Luxembourg Monday.

    The decision was originally planned at a foreign ministers' meeting last Thursday in Luxembourg, but it was postponed because the meeting was dominated by the issue of the reform Lisbon Treaty recently rejected by Irish voters.

    The move was largely symbolic as the sanctions, which included restricted high-level diplomatic contacts, have been suspended since 2005 at the initiative of Spain, which normalized ties with Havana last year.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 11:50 AM

New sphere of influence develops, while the USA goes it alone?


"Senior CPC official: CPC ready to further relations with Cuba"
www.chinaview.cn 2008-06-24           


    HAVANA, June 23 (Xinhua) -- The new leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) is ready to work with Cuba to promote further development of relations between the two parties and the two countries, a senior CPC official said here Monday.

    He Guoqiang, member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, made the remarks in his talks with Jose R. Machado Ventura, member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Cuba.

    He, also secretary of the CPC's Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, said the new CPC leadership attaches great importance to and treasures the traditional friendship between China and Cuba.

    Since China and Cuba established diplomatic relations 48 years ago, the two countries have witnessed steady growth of friendly cooperation, frequent exchanges of high-level visits, growing economic and trade exchanges as well as fruitful results of bilateral reciprocal cooperation, He said.

    The two sides have supported each other on issues concerning their respective key interests and cooperated closely in international affairs, he added.

    He spoke highly of Cuba's achievements in the construction of the party and country, and wished Cuba a greater success in its socialist building under the leadership of the Cuban Communist Party.

    He expressed his appreciation for Cuba's support and assistance to China after the devastating earthquake hit southwest China's Sichuan Province on May 12.

    Machado, also first vice-president of the Council of State and first vice-president of the Council of Ministers of Cuba, agreed to He's views on furthering bilateral ties.

    Machado reiterated that Cuba will, as always, support China's principled positions on the Taiwan and human rights issues. He said he believes that the Chinese people will overcome all difficulties and successfully host the 2008 summer Olympic Games.

    He Guoqiang also introduced China's party-building and anti-corruption strive, and exchanged views on wide-ranging regional and international issues of common concern with Machado in an in-depth way.

    On Monday afternoon, He visited the "Niceto Perez" agricultural production commune.

    He arrived here Sunday evening on a four-day goodwill visit to Cuba, the first leg of his four-country visit that will also take him to Trinidad and Tobago, Brazil and Angola.

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 12:01 PM

In case I forget, here is another one:
Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said this week that relations with Cuba are excellent
Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said this week that relations with Cuba are excellent and advocated greater investments and economic-commercial cooperation, reported Prensa Latina.

Another reference to snother Cuba/USA-related issue:

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2008/02/cuba_north_korea_and_the_terro.php

Subject: RE: Cuba, will the USA be last?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 12:43 PM

Silly question, I suppose, but why wasn't the Republic of Ireland on that list of supporters of terrorism?