Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...

Subject: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 01:57 PM

English folk is NOT inferior to American pop/rock and Glastonbury should revolve into a folk festival. As I've said here -
Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how THEIR forebears did things; and, accordingly, taking this attitude is, I feel, vital for the cause of maintaining a nice multicultural-world, against the forces of globalisation/Americanisation – a cause which U.S. citizens themselves should support.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:25 PM

Two words: Fuck Off

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:32 PM

It's Michael Eavis' festival and land, so he gets to book who he wants. If you look at the line-up, you'll see a fair amount of folk acts are playing the Avalon Stage. There's also pop, rock, jazz and all sorts of other types of music going on. We call that diversity. Most people think that's a good and desirable thing.

And for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree with the first half of your opening statement. However, a lot of people who go to Glastonbury clearly don't (or more probably don't give a toss either way). It's not up to you, me or anyone else to tell them they're wrong or that they have to listen to such and such a genre instead. We call that freedom of choice. Again, most people think that's a good and desirable thing.

As for the second half, the idea that we should all pressure Mr Eavis into booking bands such as the one that I play with purely on the grounds that we're English and play English music is frankly an insult to those bands. I'd much prefer to be booked because a festival organiser likes our music and thinks their audience will too, rather than be part of some half-arsed quota system. We call that cultural fascism. Most people think that's a bad and undesirable thing.

Sincerely

Chris Green from Isambarde

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:45 PM

...why not have mostly English folk acts, Chris, and a few American guests (among others), such as Neil Diamond, whose American music I do enjoy LISTENING to, as well as some Amerindian performers, such as those on my myspace Top Friends?...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 02:51 PM

Glastonbury is not a folk festival.

Maybe it once was but it ain't now. They don't want it to be.

Why are we discussing it in the context of folk?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:08 PM

Why not indeed? However, as I've already pointed out, the final decision rests with Mr Eavis. You say if you were running Glastonbury, you'd book your favourite English acts plus a few others from elsewhere that you like listening to. So why not start your own festival? Then you'd have complete control over who did and didn't play and you'd get to hear all your favourite bands. Plus, if you made a bit of money out of it for yourself, then you'd actually have been paid to listen to them!

What I'm trying to get at is that Michael Eavis is not running Glastonbury as a public service for the good of the nation as a whole. He's running it as a private initiative for a variety of reasons. As it is a private initiative, one of its main motivations is to make money for the organiser. Accordingly, he's gonna book bands who will pull in lots of people. Regrettably, not many trad English folk bands fit into this category.

All festivals have to turn a profit to survive. Most folk festivals, being run and staffed by volunteers, will plough that profit into making next year bigger and better. Maybe Michael Eavis does the same. Maybe he keeps it all in a mattress under his bed. Maybe he blows it all on the horses. I don't know as it's not my business how he runs his festival or who he books. And guess what? It's not your business either....

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:28 PM

In the 50s and 60s, as you'll know, Chris, there was a much bigger percentage of English who did, indeed, prefer the practise/performance of English folk to American pop/rock - we need to go back to there, and beyond!..the ocean is made of many drops.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: lady penelope
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:07 PM

Um... Glastonbury is just one festival. Nobody makes you go or watch it. There are a damn site more folk festivals than rock/pop festivals every year. I think WAV needs to get a tiny grip on their knicker elastic...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:25 PM

Cruel Folk were playing the folk tent there this year and they do play some English folk music (1954 definition)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 04:30 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "their knicker elastic", fair Lady, but I like the reminder that "there are a damn site more folk festivals than rock/pop festivals every year."

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 05:30 PM

'We need to go back there'.

I agree with you that the 50s and 60s were halcyon days for trad music from the British Isles (from what I'm told - I was born in 1977!) It'd be great to see a second folk revival along those lines and I think we're actually experiencing one of sorts as i write. As Lady Penelope pointed out there ARE a damn sight more folk festivals than rock/pop festivals. I can't remember folk music ever being covered as much in the media as it is now. But let's face it, even back in the 50s, 60s and 70s it was hardly mainstream compared to, say, the Beatles or the Stones. Or, to pick two particularly piss-poor examples, the Bay City Rollers or the BeeGees.

Making the Glastonbury Festival into some sort of quota-based 'Anglicana Fair' (even if such a thing were possible) is only going to reinforce the view of many people that folk can't survive without external funding and the goalposts being shifted in its favour. Education and outreach (in schools, for example) is a different matter, but you're talking about a private event for paying punters.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Zen
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 07:19 PM

...why not have mostly English folk acts
_________________

Glastonbury is not a folk festival.

Maybe it once was but it ain't now. They don't want it to be.
_________________

I was one of the 1500 or so people at the first Glastonbury in 1970. It wasn't a folk festival then nor has it ever been one.

What is the point of this thread WAV?

Zen

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:10 AM

Good luck to Glastonbury!

It is not a Folk Festival as I personally see English or Scottish Folk Festivals

Yes there are plenty of others more refelective of the Folk scene

Ray

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:23 AM

You should get out for walkies more, WAB. English folk music is alive and well and living in the provinces, at festivals like Rydale Folk Weekend, Scarborough Seafest and in folk clubs like Kirby Fleetham were we had a magnificent feast of English folk music the other weekend. In fact, it's more localised than just English (and none the worse for that), as people sing traditional songs from, and write new ones about, their locality. I, too, deplore global Americanisation, but English music is in good shape to repel the invaders - indeed, welcome them and then show them how it should be done. :)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:23 AM

"Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how THEIR forebears did things" ... I'm impressed by our forebears performed rock music, how it has evolved, how it transcended national borders,

I'm also impressed by the effort Michael Eavis has to promote charitable and environmental causes, something made possible by the popularity of the festival, which itself is popular due to the diversity of performers at the festival. Folk, rock, jazz, classical and dance acts from all over the world, all sharing the same stages.

Glastonbury is a celebration of diversity, of our multicultural world, of how these cultures mix and how amazing new music can develop. (although the choice of main stage acts is a bit questionable at times)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Hovering Bob
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:33 AM

It is what it is, and they booked my son's band! Good on them.

BobH

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:44 AM

WAV's got a point, but what's sauce for the goose . . .

To balance turning Glastonbury from a successful international festival into a folk festival, I propose we should also turn Sidmouth into a punk and metal festival for those who yearn for the edgier things in life, and who will have lost the opportunity to indulge at Glasto.

I for one would look forward to seeing the Dead Kennedy's playing their fine romantic song 'Too Drunk to F*ck', at The Manor Pavilion and would applaud Ivor Biggun performing solo for us all his classic record "The W*nker's Song" on stage at the Gardens.

I'll get me spoons . . .

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Michael Eavis
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:05 AM

Get off moy larnd!!!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Folkies Forever
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:08 AM

Yes I agree. I think we should also force the organisers of the MOBO awards to change it to MOWO awards with folk acts sweeping all the prizes!!!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:15 AM

Are there MOWO awards?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:25 AM

Er; what about those well-known Glastonbury regulars, The Boat Band? Difficult to imagine anything more English (except when they are off on one of their Cajun adventures).
Tim

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:41 AM

WAV, 29 June, 2:45PM says: "......why not have mostly English folk acts, Chris, and a few American guests (among others), such as Neil Diamond, whose American music I do enjoy LISTENING to...".

Woops, what a slip of the keyboard there! So that's the criterion then, is it?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:47 AM

Sorry; Guest 5.25am was me.
Tim

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:48 AM

I'd go a long way to avoid listening to Neil Diamond!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:35 AM

No slip, George: I do, indeed, enjyoy LISTENING to some of the pop/rock performed (e.g., as guests of, ME, above?) by AMERICANS - I'm not anti-American but anti-Americanisation.
And, to Richard: on somethings, of course, we disagree - I think ND's stage-craft and American music is pretty impressive.
To Theleveller: one that you missed - just this last weekend, WAV went "walkies" to the Durham Traditional Music Festival.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:50 AM

Whyaye, bonnie lad. Did you give a wave to the Gateshead flasher?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:50 AM

However, I have just slipped-up a bit with my last choice of words, frankly: "pretty good" would make more sense, as I'd never be impressed into practising/performing such American music as Neil Diamond's, because I'm an Englishman - impressed into trying, rather, the E. trads of my folkie-forebears.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 06:53 AM

"Whyaye, bonnie lad. Did you give a wave to the Gateshead flasher?" (Theleveller...who could, kindly, reveal himself, for clarity!?)...who was there from Gateshead...?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 07:03 AM

I knew after a week or so that this thread was coming. Go to Cropredy WAV, that's a very English feeling festival. Better yet, as someone else suggested, start your own event. After orgainizing it you should find that what your audience requests is more variety. By the way, the preferred term, since you are such a stickler for this sort of thing, is Native American, not Amerindian.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 07:22 AM

""Whyaye, bonnie lad. Did you give a wave to the Gateshead flasher?" (Theleveller...who could, kindly, reveal himself, for clarity!?)...who was there from Gateshead...?"

Don't be so perverse! Reveal myself as what? If you're really that intersted, find me on myspace. Who the hell are you, anyway?

Did you not go up that ancient English highway, The Great North Road and see Mr Gormley's magnificent structure?

BTW, did you see Brother Crow winning best song and best tune awards? Missed it, unfortunately, but very well deserved.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 08:44 AM

Sorry, Theleveller - first time I'd heard it called that, but I actually saw The Angel of the North on the train from Newcastle to Durham on Saturday, as I sat backwards.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 09:37 AM

Landermason have a fantastic song about the Angel of the North on their CD of the same name.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 09:47 AM

In what way isn't rock music - at least partly - an English phenomenon? Surely the likes of the Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks, the Pretty Things, the Small Faces, the Zombies etc, sent rock music spinning off in all kinds of directions that had never been concieved of before? And don't get me started on Barrett-era pink Floyd, the Move, Caravan, Soft Machine, Hatfield and the North, Van Der Graaf Generator and a host of others.

Not so much the Americanisation of "English culture" but a full scale campaign of Anglicisation of a once purely American, but now happily mongrelised, form.

Tell me how "The Village Green Preservation Society" or "Arnold Layne" or "S.F. Sorrow" is an example of Americanisation. And be warned: there are plenty more examples where those came from.

WAV, your position is null and void, not least because it fails to recognise that just like people (you included), music travels and picks up all kinds of souvenirs, some classy and some tacky.

vaccuums exist to be filled, which is a good reason why music can't and shouldn't exist in one.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:02 AM

If you check with Wikipedia, Ewan, you'll soon see that rock and pop are, indeed, American genres, that the likes of The Beatles (who even tried talking in American accents) were very good at copying; I, myself, have far more respect for English folk who are good at their OWN good culture.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,The Bastard Son Of Marty Feldman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:14 AM

Irishenglish - Why go to Cropredy when you can go to Pickering? Top time to be had and I, for one, can't wait! Yippedee Doo Dah.......

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:21 AM

Initially American, yes (although with roots at least partly in early country music, which in turn has its roots, both secular and church, in the songs and ballads brought over to the US from England, Scotland and Ireland - an oversimplified history, yes, but nonetheless...). However you cannot seriously believe that when the Beatles brought out, say, Revolver, they were still trying to sound like Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and co? It so they failed miserably, especially with the likes of "Tomorrow Never Know", "Eleanor Rigby", "She Said She Said" and so on. If you think these are just pale imitations of the American rock music of the time, you really do have cloth ears. Sorry and all that! Do you not realise this was an era when a shockingly large proportion of American bands were desperately trying to sound English?

Traditional folk music is far from being the only music musicians in the country have created, contributed to and developed.

Open your ears, man, and let your mind follow!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:24 AM

Just a suggestion for our misg....er...misinf...um....misun....no, what's the word? Ah yes! Irrelevent!

WAV-I'm going to cut and paste all my posts from your previous "English" threads, because they have the same points and the same relevance to everything you bring up on here. At this point, its almost not worthy to tax my brain to come up with answers to your ridiculous notions.

BTW, Bastard son, Pickering sounds great, but alas, I am in New York.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:33 AM

WAVQUOTE: I, myself, have far more respect for English folk who are good at their OWN good culture

Dunno about you, matey, but the Beatles and the rest of 'em are definitely part of my culture!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM

Wikipedia?! Since when has that been a reliable source of information?

However, I'll play along. So we'll agree that rock is, originally at least, an American genre, by which we mean that the first examples can found in the United States. However, it grew out of blues and folk music. So rock music is originally African and European in origin. Kind of like a sizeable chunk of the population of the United States really. And a sizeable chunk of the population of our own Fair Albion. So we return to square one.

WAV - everything and everyone comes from somewhere else, if you go back far enough. I was born and brought up in England and I love English folk music. I've spent a large portion of my life playing it. Once a week (for I am a lucky bugger!) I even get paid by my LEA to go into a different primary school, play some trad English folk music for the kids and SHOW them how great it is!

However, my mother is Irish. My father wasn't, but his mother was. According to you, I should therefore only play Irish folk music. Indeed, according to you, I shouldn't even really be here at all. I should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle (a place that to my shame I've never even visited!) and spend my days dancing jigs with pigs, beating my colleen over the head with a shillaleagh and indulging in sundry other such traditional practices, for the delight of visitors such as yourself, who embrace diversity with open arms as long it's not in their backyard.

Sorry if this all sounds a little cutting, but to be honest, having read a few of the threads you've started, I'm quite pissed off. I think you mean well, and I honestly don't think you can see how half-baked and bloody offensive your 'ideas' are. If you really love English folk music, and really want other people to love it more, why don't you try letting it speak for itself? It's a far more persuasive advocate than you are.

Chris

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM

"Open your ears, man, and let your mind follow!" (Ewan) - I have been doing so to the pop/rock music at Glastonbury, via the Beeb; and, frankly, have been fooled by the accents of some: i.e., I've assumed they were American from accent/style, before hearing them speak in English accents. And, as I say, I have far more respect for English folk who are good at their OWN good culture.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:54 AM

frankly ,if they asked me to play at Glastonbury,I would tell them to F Off.,what an awful festival. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:54 AM

You're putting words in my mouth there, Chris - I do love THE WORLD being diverse (major in anthropology; travel through about 40 countries); and I DON'T think you "should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle". We can accept that there has been heaps of conquest and immigration over the centuries BUT still question what is best FROM NOW ON.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:56 AM

WAV-you were warned, so here's my post to you from another of your threads-"

Oh just stop it WAV. Seriously. You lose these discussions time and time and time again. You yourself, in your head think you're being so witty and above it all. You've been dismissed by musicians, scholars, and people such as myself who have been listening to this music for years longer than yourself. You've got nothing. Just quotes from what you deem is your life's work. You don't listen. You don't choose to debate rationally, sociologically, historically, and on and on. I've said it before-in your mind, its your way or no way. All this junk about top line melody, recorders probably not even made in England, keyboards that are probably made in Japan, morris dancing cricket and tennis balls, idiotic concepts of repatriating people to the closest safe nation, gardening only native English plants. Its self promotion of the worst sort. You use this forum as a barren ground for your own musings, instead of as a place of education, discourse, or even humour. I know more about many genres of music than you could ever hope to know. You know why? I listen. I find out where this came from, and where that came from. I don't place ridiculous notions of music being something that is limited as if it were a box, preserved in time, never allowed to change. Your concepts for English music are without any merit whatsoever. You seek to constantly critique the very thing you profess to love. Your political notions are simplistic and unrealistic. Your prose offers little in the way of contemplation. Your continued obfuscation on threads that you are the original poster of is, lets be blunt here-annoying. You are preaching to a choir of people who wish you would go back on walkabout somewhere for a couple of years. You post topics on mudcat that are on your website. But you post them not in a -Hey guys, be brutally frank here, how do you like this sort of way, but rather in a I'm an intellectual of the highest degree, therefore, bow down before my life's work sort of way. WAV-your thinking is nothing. Learn to discuss, learn to debate, learn to learn. Learn to do these things that most of us learned a long time ago. "


By the way duelingbouzoukis, great post, exactly what I was thinking regarding the distillation of music.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:06 AM

'I should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle.... you're putting words in my mouth'. I was exaggerating for comedic effect, but okay, it's a fair cop. My apologies.

However, given my ethnic/cultural background, where do you stand on me playing English and not Irish folk music? Actually, I've been known to play both, but I'm far more comfortable with playing English stuff. Not because of any ancestral hang-ups. It's just that I think I'm better at it!


(Now if I can just work out what I mean by 'English folk music' then I'm laughing!)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:07 AM

By the way, irishenglish, thanks for your kind words!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:08 AM

Be careful duelingbouzouki, WAV's gonna challenge you not on that, but the fact that you are playing bouzouki and not a cittern!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:14 AM

Hand me that bouzouki, Chris, you usurper, or I will hit you with my bobble-shoe!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:15 AM

(going off at a tangent) - that's another weird word, "usurper". It sounds like something involving a spoon.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:17 AM

In the 50s and 60s, as you'll know, Chris, there was a much bigger percentage of English who did, indeed, prefer the practise/performance of English folk to American pop/rock - we need to go back to there.....

WAV you talk bollocks on here most of the time - but that is a particularly good example of the genre.

Now if you truly believe what you say - instead of just making it up as you go along - but I am happy to give you a chance to provbe me wrong. What are the percentages? Start with the fifties.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:23 AM

I'm glad you're playing English folk music, Chris...but, yes, indeed, I would like you and other English string players to give the Englsih cittern a go...apparently, as said on that other thread, they were very common in the barber-shops and taverns of 17th century England, before being superseded by the guitar, etc. Have you ever had the chance to play one? (I noticed Theleveller, above, does, via his myspace; and I've seen Jez Lowe accompany some of his verses with one.)