Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat

Subject: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 07:49 PM

I'm hoping some folks can relate to this and maybe supply an answer.
I live in Texas and travel regularly here, and in the South. I recently bought a small SUV for getting about with my guitars and a sound system - but I have a problem.

The Texas heat is murder on guitars and I don't always want to take my instrument into places I go when traveling in the hot weather. Question - is there something out there that I can cover my guitar with, or wrap my guitar in to keep the sun off of it and keep it from getting over-heated? Are there any hi-tech covers that would do the job from the camping or outdoor world? Surely I do not need to remind that my guitars are all in their cases, right? Any help or ideas would be welcome. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:15 PM

No specific help, but light coloured cases, reflective camp sheet, shaded vehicle, removable reflective windshield shade, cracked windows, air conditioning while in transit. I once had a Bronco II with a sun roof which did wonders for interior heat when cracked open even a bit. For this and other reasons I regret not having a sun roof ever since. Even in the great white north we have the same problems, so I don't envy you your situation.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:18 PM

Unfortunately it comes in 20 metre rolls, but you can get a ceiling insulation batting with a silvered side - maybe you can find offcuts. If you make a bag to cover your case with this stuff, it will cut down SOME of the heat transfer. You need to remember that you should cover the loose side of this stuff, or you will get particles of the batting stuff everywhere, maybe even insde your lungs. Not Good.

Don't forget COLD is also no good for instruments too - as well as too much or too litle moisture. High temps may also reduce humidity.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:43 PM

I bought a humicase for my classical cordoba. They make them for the dreadnoughts also. I think I am going to invest in one for my old Martin when I get the old girl back from repair and when i get some money

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:58 AM

Foolstroupe mentioned a reflective window shade. This type of silvered bubble-wrap is sometimes available loose, and is most effective against direct heat. Ambient heat is another case though. There are fan units that clamp into a part-open window, they are solar powered.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Escapee
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 01:12 AM

A metallic "space blanket"? Maybe you could make a case for your case out of foam insulation boards. It should work like a cooler.
Good luck.
SKP

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM

"Foolstroupe mentioned a reflective window shade"

No I didn't - but that would work too.

I mentioned building insulation.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 07:31 AM

Climate Cases work very well, but cost.

A cheap route is a child-size sleeping bag. A "space blanket" over the whole cargo is good too.

Peter

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Ferrara
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:54 PM

I play a zither, not a guitar, but it goes out of tune with temperature changes so I'm very aware of this problem.

Not sure where you keep the guitar case, we try to put the zither directly on the back seat which cushions it from the road as well as heat from under the car. If it is riding in the [station] wagon area, I usually put blankets or foam under the case to protect it from heat transferred from the car's exhaust system.

I cover it with a loosly folded white "down" comforter, then with a reflecting cover (we use the kind that are made to put on a car windshield.) The comforter can insulate it from heat just as well as from cold. And of course it makes a heap that doesn't look at all as if the car contained an instument which is another plus.

Well this is all very low tech but it works well.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:31 PM

Thanks, folks - for the good ideas. I knew you all would come through. Stay cool this summer. Cheers.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,gumpuddin
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 11:50 PM

Hi Tech Case covers: Pricey, ($150 - $200) but VERY GOOD QUALITY, are case covers from Colorado Case company at http://coloradocase.com/

I bought one each for my Gibson guitar and banjo and have been very pleased. Rugged, good looking, designed for thermal quality, and protects the original instrument cases as well. I like that they snugly zip around the instrument cases, and thus travel with the instrument so if temperature extremes are encountered, say, while I"m in the park, waiting to play ... my instruments are still protected.

Throw an old moving blanket on top of / under these in the car (Ferrara's post mentioned the security factor this gives, and I concur) and it'll still feel like air conditioning inside after a couple of hours parked in the hot sun. Would have to do some incremental checks before I'd leave it all day like that though ... Temperature extremes will eventually even out through virtually ANY insulation ... it's just a matter of how much stuff you can cover with and how much time the heat/cold takes to even out. The longer you must leave your stuff, the more insulation you must use.

I've read about the Calton Flight cases .. but they're $700 or so.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:03 AM

Sunlight turns to heat when it travels through the windows and is bent in the process. My theory is, keep the heat from going through the windows.

If your car is going to be parked for long periods of time, make a cover which you can plop over the top, covering all the windows. Two lengths of 60 inch material, purchased at a fabric store and stitched together lengthwise, ought to do it.

Next you need to weight the corners to keep the wind from blowing it off. I believe that four sponge-rubber balls (such as children used to play with) would provide the weight and would never damage the car if they banged against it.

My husband and I disagree as to whether the cloth should be white (for reflection) or black (for shade). What do you think?

I have been using a cloth cover on the OUTSIDE of my windshield for years, and I'm convinced it works better than those reflective screens on the inside. I put the windshield wipers over the edge of it to keep it down.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM

There are few insulation schemes that can really keep the temperature of your instrument cool if the air surrounding it (and the insulation) is really hot. A reasonable amount of insulation can, however, have the very beneficial effect of slowing down the rate at which the instrument changes temperature.

Rapid heating or cooling can cause a lot of damage, since usually part of the instrument gets hot faster while other parts remain cooler, and the difference causes stresses in the bits and parts that can crack either the bits and pieces or the finishes.

Extreme high temperatures can of course soften glue and harden finishes, but most instruments are "flexible" enough to tolerate temperatures that are tolerable to people, if the heating/cooling is slow enough to avoid mechanical stresses from rapid/uneven changes.

A large object like an automobile can heat up to 30 or 40 F (17 to 22 C) or so above the surrounding air temperature if exposed to direct sun in most climates, or more in a "desert" or at high altitudes, so obviously you need to park in the shade if possible. An artificial shade, such as a canopy, with an air space between the vehicle and the canopy, may be possible in some cases.

If the sun shines through the windows, objects inside can be heated above the air temperature inside the vehicle and will then raise the air temperature. It's this effect that's largely responsible for rapid rise to the very high temps commonly seen inside vehicles parked in the sun; although the sun on the roof will bring the inside temp up to about the same levels - just a little slower. If you can't reasonably provide full shade for the vehicle, any opaque cover over the exposed windows will slow down the rate of heating, but can't completely prevent the interior from getting hot. The windshield shade keeps the steering wheel cooler, but doesn't greatly affect the ultimate air temperature for the bulk of the interior.

Reports from limited testing¹ indicate that leaving the windows partially open has very limited effect on the inside temperatures unless there is a significant amount of "breeziness" outside the vehicle. The air volume inside a vehicle, even with the windows "open a little" is so completely "stagnant" that very little convection flow through the window openings, which would be required to exchange hot inside air for cooler ouside air, is likely.

¹ There are lots of anectdotal reports. The ones that show method and test conditions are rare.

Opening all the windows fully will help some, even with very little breeze; but that of course eliminates the security of having the instruments in the vehicle so you might as well lay them under a tree in the shade(?). [posting a guard is suggested for this option.]

Individual instruments may be more or less sensitive to extremes of temperature than most, and of course individual owner levels of paranoia may reach different extremes than most; but few instruments would have survived the decades that are common if they were really all that easily destroyed by reasonable extremes.

Just treat them like you would a pet puppy, and they should be safe enough in most circumstances.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 02:01 PM

John, what are your views in the light cover vs dark cover debate I mentioned in the post just above yours?

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:18 PM

Mandolin Brothers is a NYC guitar store run by one Stan Jay, who is absolutely.. ah,let's not say obsessive; let's not say rabid..let's just say devoted... to preserving fine (and often old) guitars. His showroom of hundreds of high end guitars is climate controlled; I would give them a try to see if they have something specifically made for your purposes, if these other suggestions don't work out. If anyone has the right product, Mandolin Brothers would.

PS No one asked my views but light covers repel heat.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,lefthanded guitar
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:19 PM

that was me, how come I signed in and it didn't take my name?

are there leprachauns afoot in Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:56 PM

Expanding a little on what John said, one way to protect your instrument from sudden temperature changes is to leave it in its case for a while when you move it from one temperature to another – from a hot car to a cool bar for example – so the case will insulate the instrument from the sudden change.
- Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:06 PM

This has to be JIK who wrote this... :-)

"Reports from limited testing1 indicate that leaving the windows partially open has very limited effect on the inside temperatures unless there is a significant amount of "breeziness" outside the vehicle."

OK another anecdote.. :-P

Some years ago there was a gadget that was being sold here in Oz, that was a solar cell with a small fan that fitted into the top 1/2 inch of the rear window slot with some plastic which you cut to length to seal the window when you wound it right up. They are no longer available - wish I had bought more than one. The external temp in SE Qld can easily reach above 30 C regularly - in the shade.

I had a thermometer inside the car which read up to max 60 deg C - before I fitted this gadget, the temp was always above 60C. After fitting this gadget, it never, in exactly the same unshaded full sun conditions, time of year etc, got above 40C. Also the 'stored heat' absorbed by the thermal mass inside of the car was noticeably less, as running the normal car fan and opening the windows got the temp down MUCH faster.

"artificial shade, such as a canopy, with an air space between the vehicle and the canopy"

This suggestion is very good.

Also re 'puppy' - in Australia is is now ILLEGAL to leave a child (or pet) unsupervised in a car - windows open or not. There have been many deaths over the years - death in a baby can occur in a matter of a few minutes - larger living beings just take longer to die.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 12:30 AM

When I took a guitar into the Grand Canyon, I painted the case white. I mean, why not?

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 01:30 AM

Would certainly help you find it if you dropped it...

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: open mike
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:00 AM

hey!!?? where did my post go?
I second the suggestion about climate cases, now found at allen guitars.

when i got mine, i did a test with an indoor/outdoor thermometer.

for every 10 degrees temp. rise out side, the case showed a 1 degree rise. I did this with an empty case in the direct sun. it got over 100 degrees outside...the LCD screen on the thermometer went solid black.

these used to be made in nevada city calif. (or next door in Grass Valley) now the business has been sold to

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:42 AM

your views in the light cover vs dark cover debate

A standard quiz question for high school physics class is:

"If black is a better radiator that silver, why are all the radiators in this school silver."

The answer: "'Cause it's prettier."

The real answer to what color your window shades should be is not an easy one to answer. Solar radiation encompasses a very broad spectrum, from far infrared to ultraviolet, but the portion of that spectrum that contributes the most to heating your car - and the guitar in it - can vary widely with atmospheric and other ambient conditions. Usually it's the longer wavelengths - in the infrared ranges - that contribute most to heating; but that's just a general tendency and not a hard and fast rule.

The board that's black to visible light may be almost completely transparent - or highly reflective - to longer wavelengths. Similarly, the board that looks white to you, in the visible range, may be quite black and highly absorbant for the heat contributed by longer wavelengths.

Most metals, especially if polished, are reflective over rather broad wavelength ranges, so alumin(i)um foil probably would be a good choice, but an "alumin(i)um paint" or ink as used to make "metallic looking" cardboard could be quite ineffective.

A shade that absorbs all the incident solar heat and gets quite hot itself may be just as effective as one that reflects most of the incident energy and keeps itself cooler, if you can provide an air gap to flush the heat from the shade before it's conducted into the car. Absorbed or reflected doesn't matter much, as long as it's not coming out on the other side.

As Foolestroupe points out, any forced ventilation can help quite a bit with keeping the internal temperature of the vehicle lower, but the device described isn't something easily found in most places. (You could also leave the engine running and the air conditioner on if you really need to keep things cool, but that might not be a wise option except in the very nicest of neighborhoods.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 02:55 AM

Actually JiK, people could easily kludge up something.

You can buy a small solar panel that puts out about 1 amp at 12V - intended to plug into the cigarette lighter socket and recharge the car battery - sadly many cars disconnect that socket if the ignition key is removed!

A handful of junked PC or CPU 12V (or other lower voltages wired up correctly) fans (most take much less than 1 amp each) in the right places - in the air vents (or at least one of them) - with at least one window cracked just a fraction of an inch - may do the job. The more sunlight, the more fan movement - probably. Unlike the other commercial gadget, which sucked hot air from the top of the car window, forcing cool(er) outside air in the vents and allowing it to rise out the top of the cracked open window(s) would probably work well enough.

You don't actually need MUCH air movement... You probably wouldn't even NEED a switch - the commercial gadget didn't have one.

Subject: RE: Tech: Guitar - protection from the sun/heat
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 01:37 PM

Once again, folks -thanks so very much to EVERYONE for the thoughtful input. I, and everyone who reads this thread have several good options herein to mull over. Happy Fireworks. Cheers.