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Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia)
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Subject: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:42 PM Just had a spammail from AMMA claiming to be big in independent music publishing and asking for prospective CDs to be mailed to them at. AMMA Att. Imogen Smythe PO Box 319 Fitzroy Victoria 3065 AUSTRALIA. No doubt other catters will have had this email. Five screens of Google haven't heard of them so I guess I click this the way of all such mail? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:40 PM Australian Music Marketing Abroad found on Australian Music Online when I searched on "independent music publishing" Australian Music Marketing Abroad covers most genres of music. AMMA represents about 100 new indie artists and 25 small labels. They shop their publishing, licensing etc at trade shows through a magazine "New Australian Music Magazine". I've never heard of them, but then I don't know anything about recording. I have friends who might know if you want any more info. J, If you're not in Australia it's strange email to receive. sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:46 PM Thanks Sandra, I can't tell what email they used to reach me, maybe the one off my website. Perhaps they've trawled for artists they've never heard of but as you say why over here. They enjoin you to send a CD or demo. My suspicion was that would be the last I heard till I saw it in the filling station for £2.99 but they are obviously legit. You could ask your friends opinion, thanks. John Wilson www.whitclifferecords.co.uk |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 09 Jul 08 - 05:39 AM email sent to a couple of Oz folkies who are likely to know stuff about independent music publishing as they both have created independent music! sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Greyback in Canada Date: 10 Jul 08 - 08:58 AM had the same email here - curious about what's back of it |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 10 Jul 08 - 09:08 AM one of my friends hadn't heard of it & suggested asking another, so I've sent another email & will report back asap sherlock |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 10 Jul 08 - 09:31 AM reply - Never heard of them... can understand a Radio Station do that or even a presenter ......... not a company. I found Australian Music on Line but even though their site looks 'nice' I think they're not definite enough in what they say they do. Not worth the bother Sandra, ============== sherlock in sydney signing out |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Lauren - Los Angeles Date: 10 Jul 08 - 02:10 PM Reached me here in L.A. via spam too. I did the same 5 page search on Goggle. Nice try Imogene! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 11 Jul 08 - 02:18 AM we are living in interesting times! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,P.W. in Canada Date: 12 Jul 08 - 08:27 PM I got it too, wondered who they are... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 13 Jul 08 - 07:30 AM I found them in the Telephone directory. These are their details: >Location: Australian Music Marketing Abroad 52 Webb St Fitzroy 3065, (03) 9419 2828 >The street number you searched for was not found. A map for Webb Street Fitzroy, Victoria is provided. Note the error above re the street number. As it happens this address isnt too far off my drive home from work, so I'd be happy to pass by and have a look tomorrow to see if they actually have something that looks like an office. If they do I'll see if they have a flyer about who they are and what they do. Just out of curiousity of course. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 13 Jul 08 - 08:11 AM my other friend hadn't heard of them either, so if you have nuffin' better to do on your way home from work ... sandra why is Google offering links to free on-line translating & English-German translating? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 13 Jul 08 - 04:23 PM I mailed back Imogen at AMMA and copy two of her reply paragraphs below. I'm still not convinced; I don't believe anyone these days claiming not to need a website. I await the doorstep research by Andrez! John. "We are a traditional nut and bolts music bizz organisation. We don't sell CD's to the general public as such, we only license to labels and publishers etc who use their infrastructure to market product in their own territories. Be it the UK, Europe, North America, Asia, Brazil whatever. Being such we don't really need a website. We advertise in the international print media all over the world in fact. Which is very expensive but gets long term results. Having said that we do have a large presence and many international music trade websites such as MIDEM. However you will need an industry logon to gain access to these sights. AMMA has been in the business of international music publishing and licensing for over 20 years and is one of the most visible companies carrying on the business of licensing and publishing on the international music trade circuit. Our activities take us all over the world and we have a presence on every continent. Artists who are contacted by AMMA often ask how we found them. Our Melbourne office is given artist/writer/label contact info from all over the world by song writing associations, musician unions, label associations, manager forums and other collectives. It is our business to find good artists, good writers and good catalogue for further business." |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 13 Jul 08 - 09:11 PM weird to say they don't need a website. As an retired librarian I know EVERYONE (especially younger folks) thinks if it's not on the web it doesn't exist!! They don't appear to have an Australian Business Number (most organisations do - blurb from ABN site "ABN Lookup provides access to the publicly available information provided by businesses when they register for an Australian Business Number"), but they are mentioned on the ASIC Index of corporate and business names (Aust. Securities & Investment Commission website - Govt website) ps. Businesses can legitimately have several names & I only know AMMA Extracted from ASIC's database at AEST 10:37:51 on 14/07/2008 Name AUSTRALIAN MUSIC MARKETING ABROAD Registered state/no. VIC B1468120R Type Business Names Registration Date Unknown Next Review Date Unknown Status Business Names - Removed Principal Place of Business not available Jurisdiction Office of Fair Trading & Business Affairs,Victoria I can't find any trace of them under their initials, full name or registered number on the Victorian Fair Trading site. I'm not expert on super-advanced web-searching so I've emailed my research librarian colleague to see if he can find more info. sandra (also eagerly awaiting Andrez's visit) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM HI guys, just checking in to say sorry I wasnt able to do the check yesterday but will definitely do so tomoorw on the way home from work and will report as promised. I've had a daughter return home from ski camp with 20 stitches in her leg. It sort of changes the priorities.Having said that I will definitely do the drive past tomorrow to check things out and will report in the evening. If theres anything to see I'll take a snapshot. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 15 Jul 08 - 09:06 AM has your daughter been falling down (snow-free) mountains? sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: quokka Date: 15 Jul 08 - 09:52 AM "been in the business of international music and publishing for twenty years" and don't have a website?? get real - that makes no sense AT ALL! What DO they use to communicate with everyone on the net - Morse code? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Dick in Amsterdam Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM Kind of weird, but interesting enough to search for them on the internet and found this forum. If they don't have a website, they sure know how to find their emails to spam. Come on Andrez, make your snapshot! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Acousticangelo Date: 16 Jul 08 - 05:11 AM Hi folks, i packed a cd, wrote the adress on the envelope, to send it to AMMA, when a little doubt came. Found this forum from google... Finally, reading all these comments, (my english vocabulary is poor), I've lost an envelope. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:21 AM Currently an appropriate term of endearment for our meteorologically challenged Northern cousins escapes me, but to set the record straight Mt Buller in Victoria had around 50cm of snow by the end of last week :-) Now to business, I need to confess that I entrusted the relevant address to my poor 60's addled brain and went to the address implanted into said brain. That address was 55 Webb St Fitzroy instead of the correct one being 52 Webb St and on the opposite side of the road! I even took a photo of No 55 as proof. :-( What a $%$%$^%$#........... feel free to choose an appropriate adjective or other action. Ouch! Not so hard!!! :-(((( Anyway since I've gone that far, I'll have to do the after work detour again tomorrow and this time look at the right bloody address.#@#$@$%#$# On the brighter side of things though I did find a really nice looking pub a little further down Webb St that looks like it could warrant further detailed investigation. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 16 Jul 08 - 10:16 AM I've just done a Google search on "Imogen Smythe" & found 2 references to this thread!, several to an actress who appeared in "The man from Uncle" & one mentioning AMMA on a blog 'Below the Surface'from Chinchilla Music sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:05 AM Ok I have a few things to report. Yes I finally found the right street address for AMMA. No 52 Webb st. is part of what looks like a reasonably upmarket Townhouse complex. It is effectively a 2 story unit with a security gate and intercomm system for access along with an electronic rollup garage door right next to the gate. There is what looks like a security camera above the front gate so I am probably on their system as I photographed from across the street and then walked over to look more closely at the gate and entrance. There is no signage whatsoever to suggest that a business of any sort operates there. Whilst I can understand discretion, a small plaque or some-such would be appropriate for a legit mainstream marketing/ promotional operation. If anyone wants to look at the pix, I took 4 of house and street. PM me with an email address and I'll forward them. Apart from that I did a search and found an AMMA website of sorts at this link: http://www.amo.org.au/label.asp?id=21 If you click on the About us link on the Menu bar or directly on the link below http://www.amo.org.au/about.asp you get the following blurb: "'Australian Music Online' (AMO) is a web-based initiative that aimed to advance the marketing and promotion of new Australian contemporary music, across a diverse range of genres, both nationally and internationally. The AMO project ran from March 2003 - April 2007; the site, however, remains archived live on the internet. In 1998, the Federal Government announced that it would allocate funding to support music industry development and assist in addressing issues relevant to the repeal of the Copyright Act provisions relating to the parallel importation of sound recordings. One of the funding commitments made by the Australia Council within that contemporary music package was funding the development and implementation of a strategy for the online promotion and marketing of Australian music. The development and maintenance of the AMO web resource was an important part of that contemporary music package. The AMO web resource contains an extensive amount of content and data about new Australian music. This content is created by AMO as well as aggregated from partner sites featuring Australian music content. AMO also syndicated relevant sets of this content to an extensive array of partner websites (eg: MusicNSW, WAM, Triple J, the Fuse Festival etc). This syndication enabled many high/low profile and general/niche websites to offer a more complete service to their new/existing user bases by offering a 'richer' and more thorough catalogue of online information about Australian music. The site has been developed using a custom-built XML-based content management system. All content is labelled, indexed and credited to its original sources. Unfortunately, AMO's funding came to and end in April 2007. Despite this, the website - and its partner jukeboxes - remain live on the 'net; staffing of the site, however, has ended for the time being. No further updates to AMO will be made at this stage." If you click on the Newsletters link on the menu bar or on the link below: http://www.amo.org.au/newsletter.asp You get the following info: "Thanks for checking out AMO! Unfortunately, AMO is no longer staffed, so our newsletter is now inactive" If you look further around the site, It does seem though that they did have involvement with a lot of Indi music labels and organisations So basically you can draw the obvious conclusions about where AMMA is at today. The interesting thing now is what is Imogen Smythe up to in terms of the spam mails going out. I'll do a little more detective work of my own. Anyway hope that helps a little. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:24 AM Having done a few more searches on Imogen S. and drawing a solid blank like everyone else, I would say as if it isnt fairly obvious already, that the original AMMA mail is spam from persons unknown and that it should be left at that and oops.............. I just noticed that the website I spotted is the same one cited near the start of the thread by Sandra of Sydney. My posts and links above just looked in a different section of the same website. Sorry about that but maybe they clarify what happened to the organisation. I got the chance to try out that pub I mentioned yesterday. A nice place to sit and the beer is good. Nice place for a folk club........hmmmmmmmmmmm! Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:42 AM now if you can get a folk club going, that would be the best reward possible for all your hard work. many thankyous sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 17 Jul 08 - 03:24 PM Sandra, The text re AMMA from your Chinchilla link is what was in the original spam trawl. John |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,rihard smith Date: 21 Jul 08 - 01:05 AM i got a letter of offer from them after sending them my cd and they asked for 2700 dollars to get me promoted in australia and uk. they sent a very nice magazine and about six cds. i though this was crap so i wrote back and said if you feel this strongly about my music and that you can get it sold ill offer you no cash up front and a 5% earning of any contract signed by one of your clients. they wrote back talking nonscence about how 5% is nothing and they need cash good try immogene smythe |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:17 PM Well if AMMA claimed they didn't need a web presence then thanks to all they've got one now! John Wilson |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 22 Jul 08 - 02:49 AM my friend sent 3 links - 2 I've seen, so here's the other link- banditnewsletter (this newsletter has lotsa' very interesting articles) sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:44 AM The UK site looks like a variation on a theme and the AMMA listing is much the same as on the Aust Music Online site. As an artist, I wouldnt be spending my money with any of their offers any more than with AMMA. What I find interesting is that the AMO site is affiliated with the Australian Council for the Arts which is a legitimate organisation. I'm going to track down a few contacts and see if I can find out who I can call directly in the Aust Council about the AMO site and what AMMA seems to be up to. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:33 AM Andrez, I hand my deerstalker cap to you! sandra |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Max Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:52 AM mudcat.org has been contacted by the AMMA with a "request" to remove this thread. The correspondence is as follows: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:57:14 +1000 Subject: PLEASE READ AND RESPOND TO THIS EMAIL in regard to MUDCAT CAFÉ Blogsite 21/07/08 From: xxxxxx Hello Dick, I've just had my attention drawn to your blog site in regard to blogs posted by people who we don't know. They have also posted via a librarian confidential company information and also a registered street address as that of our company AMMA. This runs in the face of business confidentiality regulations and the privacy of Government information and the public posting there of, in this territory and in fact many territories. This same (very similar) matter occurred last year within the blog site of a relatively major on line CD site. They were in fact instructed to take it all down and they did so with no ill-will which we respect! I would have to ask you to do the same I'm afraid. If there were any truths within these blogs I wouldn't bother but like all blogs they are just negativity gone rampantly insane to the point where they start quoting other companies with similar names in fact! And then start "stalking" unknowns premises!!! Certainly not ours! Now apparently there have been people outside the "said premises" taking pictures!!! Please read your site! Bizarre indeed but these are the times we live in... Here is the address for the blogs I refer to: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112553&messages=26 They have drawn into the equation Australian Music Online also who are miffed as well as the address they have disclosed as AMMA (who has contacted me). The Librarian who has gone to the data base to exume this information and put it up on your page "could, should" face federal charges or at the very least a sacking! But I am presuming you will just pull it down. Evidence gone! Everyone can get on with their jobs! We don't print and publish information about you and your company Dick so in the interests fair competition, privacy and more importantly "accuracy" (not to mention organising "stalkers"), we would expect you and your company to do no less. We do appreciate: What individuals, unknown to yourselves publish on your web site can be difficult to control. But like print media, which we are involved with, we cannot allow "anyone" to just say "anything" and then go print it and distribute it to our subscribers. We end up in all manner of time wasting actions! We appreciate that you have final say in anything which is posted on the mudcat web site and accordingly would limit it's use to any undesirable or subversive elements. Please advice by return email Kindest Regards Norman McCourt (director AMMA, Madra Beag Music and Editor An'R-artist repertoire and international licensing) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:16:48 +1000 Subject: Re: Complaint about Mudcat thread on Australian firm From: xxxxxxx Well, I can't see anything wrong with the thread. I suppose we could delete the address information. Maybe that's confidential information in Australia - but it sure wouldn't be in the U.S. I suppose what we could do is reply to them and ask specifically what information they want requested, and why. From this e-mail, it's pretty hard to figure out what they want. I think the call is up to you, Max. -Joe- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Joe & Max, Since yesterday we have had a word around and would like the entire content removed "post haste". These bloggers are not any of our clients so know little or nothing about how we have operated for the last 30 odd years or indeed who we are and much less where we are! Bloggers only post negative uninformed, misguided misinformation from what we have seen over the years. Our clients never post bloggs they are too busy doing what they do. They also never reply to bloggs they are not interested. So in that regard it is a one way street of negativity. Why anyone could be bothered hosting one would seem pointless and akin to being maybe what we once called a "busybody" As with the online CD aggregators blogg site case recently. We could have replied to every blogger with an answer but to be quite frank we don't have the time. As a result of one short note from us and within 24 hours, this blogg site was all removed and nothing has since gone back up. We are now in a good relation with said organisation. We have nothing but kind words to say about them which is good for business... "all around". In the case of the librarian who has exposed someones address and our legal entity... I would envite her to post her home address and place of work for everyone to see. At least that way we can contact the library and begin some form of recompense. I have to ask you: Would you like us to publish misleading, uninformed incorrect information about your company in our print publications? To be honest I don't think we could be bothered but... Do you have time to sit around all day for the next 12 months conducting this conversation? I don't think so... Neither do we! Does your business have an identity to maintain? And if so what is it? So do we! I will ask you kindly once more Joe to pull down that entire page in the interests of fair play, decency and quite possibly your legal obligations. No Threat! Just a request in good faith! Kindest Regards Norman McCourt (director AMMA, Madra Beag Music and Editor An'R-artist repertoire and international licensing) --------------------------------------------------------------------- dateTue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:12 AM subjectRe: Complaint about Mudcat thread on Australian firm Hello, Mr. McCourt- I read the thread thoroughly a second time, and found it to be completely innocuous. The people who post at Mudcat are fairly representative of the worldwide English-speaking folk music community. The person who started the thread had received a solicitation from AMMA, and rightly wondered whether the company was legitimate. Several people checked up on the company, and provided the information they found from telephone directories and government public records. That information, by the way, is far less detailed than the public record information available on every company doing business in the United States. If there is incorrect information in the thread, feel free to post to the thread and explain your company's story and correct the wrong information. If there is information in the thread that is truly private, please tell me specifically what it is and why it should be kept private. As far as I can see, everything posted in the thread is totally innocuous, taken from public records, and helpful to the musicians in the Australian folk music community. In case you lost it, here's the URL of the thread: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112553 So, my decision is to leave the thread alone. If nobody posts to it for 24 hours, the thread will disappear from our Forum Menu - although it may show up in a Google search. If you would like to pursue this matter further, please contact Max Spiegel, the owner of the Mudcat Cafe. Sincerely, -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator, The Mudcat Cafe- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:16:48 +1000 Subject: Re: Complaint about Mudcat thread on Australian firm From: xxxxxx Hello Joe & Max, As you are the gatekeeper of the moral high ground here I think you need to read that site through again! and if that is your "final" decision! I have to appease people here to make sure I'm not in the firing line of litigation. How much do you want to take it down? A simple business consideration! It is our business and it is your business Kindest Regards Norman McCourt (director AMMA, Madra Beag Music and Editor An'R-artist repertoire and international licensing) ------------------------------------------------------------------- from: Max Spiegel dateTue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:22 AM subjectRe: Complaint about Mudcat thread on Australian firm Mr. McCourt, As publisher of mudcat.org, I have been monitoring this correspondence and reviewed the thread rather thoroughly. I have determined that the discussion on our forum is precisely why our forum exists. It is there for musicians to discuss their experiences, successes and failures while trying to make a very difficult living in traditional music. Our users and staff go to great effort to elucidate meanings, methods, options and opportunities. In short, I am not removing the thread. As you prepair your legal team and dig your bunker, there is one more thing you should know. I intend to publish this correspondence betwean you and our staff and I, to that thread of discussion. I feel that it supplies additional details that our site and our users strive to supply to address the question that began this topic in the first place. Details are hard to come by when researching traditional music and oral histories, so you have to take what you can get and let discussion volley them about to see what sticks. We have no facts, just memories, stories and experiences, with which we do our work. The fact that your orginization does not have a Web site, any significant results with Google searches nor provide any significant information to your prospective clientelle, our forum is serving it's purpose here, and I am serving mine. Feel free to participate in our open and uncensored forum. Seeing as how you seek to contact musicians as a part of your business, there are about 75,000 of us active here, many of which actually want to market their music globally. Seems like the perfect place for you to say anything you want without fear of being edited or deleted. With Utmost Sincerety, Max Spiegel Publisher www.mudcat.org |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 23 Jul 08 - 07:22 AM Its a bit hard to let this go then isnt it? OK lets clarify a few things for those overseas. 1 Info from ASIC can be readily obtained by any interested party either free or for the price of a search fee. 2. The listing Norman complains about as being confidential company information, notes no, repeat NO confidential identifying company information. The operative lines in the ASIC info first posted above are: Registration Date: Unknown; Status: Business names-removed; Principle place of business: not available. There is nothing confidential about that information. The ASIC extract appears to be little more than details or the registration of a business name, whose current status is unclear to say the least. It is also telling that Sandra in Sydney noted: I can't find any trace of them under their initials, full name or registered number on the Victorian Fair Trading site. To confirm this, I did a free search at the Website of Consumer Affairs Victoria at this link: http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/CA256B7D001E2A6C/page/Victorian+Names+Register- Type in the Company name of your choice! The keys results are as follows: Organisation Name AUSTRALIAN MUSIC MARKETING ABROAD Organisation Number B1468120R Date Registered 13/10/1999 Date Deregistered 13/10/2002 Renewal Date - It is necessary to again emphasise that this is PUBLIC Information. The alleged registered street address is equally PUBLIC as it is detailed on a website associated with the Australian Arts Council. So all talk about librarians facing federal charges may be considered to be.... in the classical sense of the term..... BOLLOCKS! Interestingly another search, this time via ASIC, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission on the business name: Madra Beag Music resulted in the following entry at this link: http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?state_number=1285941X&juris=3&hdte Extracted from ASIC's database at AEST 20:39:14 on 23/07/2008 Name MADRA BEAG MUSIC Registered state/no. VIC 1285941X Type Business Names Registration Date Unknown Next Review Date Unknown Status Business Names - Removed Principal Place of Business not available Jurisdiction Office of Fair Trading & Business Affairs,Victoria So if you get the drift, methinks Uncle Norman protesteth too much. Now heres my hypothesis, purely speculative of course! There are people around who for reasons of their own are building a business profile on the Internet. Its really easy to do that and on the basis of Pr and spammin... errrrrrr.....marketing, try to make a living from both hardworking artists (5%) of all persuasions as well as gullible wannabes (95%). Now for all we know Mr McC and the elusive Imogen S may be perfectly legit. True enough! Unfortunately, writing letters of complaint to Mudcat central and claiming to be a principal of two companies whose business names are unregistered in Australia, significantly weakens the case put forward for the prosecution m'lud! More to the point, although this is purely speculation as well, what happens is that this thread does come up on searches and may provide an alternative point of view regarding services that may or may not be provided by any parties who have a vested interest in presenting a particular online persona, as part of their own business activities. By placing some information out there in public forums, artists of all persuasions can draw their own conclusions on the basis of factual information. What they decide to do on the basis of that information is up to them. Personally though, I'd be worried and I'd certainly like to hear any justification or arguments to the contrary that might be made available in this public forum. So good on you Max and here's one for free speech and choice. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Quokka Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:47 AM Just a point - any publicity is good publicity, surely- if you are legit, this would be a perfect forum to try and increase your profile globally. Why would you try to shut down discussion if your business is in promotion, especially if you have solicited business from particular musicians. Anyone is entitled to check whether 'cold-callers' are legitimate, no? Otherwise we just have to assume you have something to hide... just saying... Cheers Quokka |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Max Date: 23 Jul 08 - 09:57 AM Another Message from the AMMA: On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:12 AM, An'R artist repertoire & international licensing Hello Max, What you are saying here is... you will "hoist up your flagpole" whatever you like OK? With blatant disregard for any research, sources or for that matter soul searching. So to start... With Utmost Sincerety, "sincerity" please! (yikes!!!! "prepair"!!!! Means first two maybe? no you mean "prepare"... Oh what? wait on "Betwean"!!! Maybe "between" must be US spelling Norman!!) We don't refer to them as "perspective clientelle" either... Maybe "Clientele" Well you are going to hoist whatever you like so spelling isn't really an issue! It's not against the law, not to have a web site but then it's not as if we don't. We do also have some affiliation so as to where you look for it, is up to yourself. We are not going to spoon-feed anyone. There is a saying "you should never defecate where you eat" You should give this some serious consideration Max. In Laymen's terms... You cannot have a business relationship with people you shit on! And there I will have to temper my language because if you do put this up on your blogg site an impressionable child "may" read it... Without issue, put this up! And I did say "without issue" What you edit out will say a lot about you Max. As to your "legal team" comment: We are not preparing any "legal team" never said we were... We made a "polite" request, followed by an offer. Apart from any litigation we may incur from your blatant disregard for your own privacy policy (see your own words below. If they are indeed! Have you read it?). Like most "bloggers" you don't read or see what is really being said to you... You are too busy having a little "power trip"! One other thing - Please be careful not to post information you want to keep private. The Mudcat is part of the Internet, and there are nasty people out there who study every word you post. There's no need to be paranoid about the nasty guys - but it is wise to be prudent. Don't post your date of birth, your address or phone number, or other personal information. If you need to convey that information, send it by e-mail or personal message - but only to people you trust. The Protecting Your Privacy section of this FAQ gives pointers on privacy. By the way, Mudcat will not release your membership information or IP address to outside parties or to members. And as for 75,000 bloggers involved with mudcat... From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands! Now what are the words of that song... Fat drunk and stupid Got nothing to say Fat drunk and stupid Gonna say it anyway There is a fabulous business model for the music industry at the moment. A lot of people will deny it exists for purely political reasons... but it does! One which saves us all a lot of time! (1) There are those artists who's work speaks for itself. They produce excellent product, concepts, songs and imagery. All well thought-out, sounding excellent, looking excellent! They have put their pennies where their mouth is! Not necessarily intentionally, but that is how these true artists operate. Over time they sink all their efforts, experience and pennies into making their point... "art" These artists often go to the industry "cap in hand" asking for "a deal" of some description (they don't know themselves!). They usually get one as well... Along the way they may also get a slagging but they are set in their ways, this is all they know, they can only be better. This is real product that can sell via logistics in a traditional method and make money (lets face it, without "money" being involved, it can't be called business can it?) You can more often than not, walk into a store and buy this type of artist's CD!! It has infrastructure! Other people/companies involved who need to make the process cover costs so they can do more... for more! Lets face it, finances/diplomacy/and even time keeping are not necessarily the hall marks of a great artist... Never were! Anyway, this is still called "Music Business". (2) then there is what we all call "web music"... If you can't sell your music, no one is interested, can't get a traditional reviewer to even review it... ( I could add to this "never left the bedroom, no money, no prospects, highly self opinionated, always right, blogger..." But I wont!) Then you can write your own spin on the great WWW!!!! steer skeptics to it, maybe even scam a bob or two... maybe! When your chickens do come home to roost! They don't lay eggs... it's just a charade. In short... Can't give the stuff away! This is "web music"! With the Business model that now exists, we don't have to deal with "web music", "want to be's" or WWB's anymore (WebWannaBes)! These people are tight, confused, insular and self obsessed! And like bloggers they are nameless and faceless for a good reason... "fear" all sorts of "fear"! All they will do is direct you to a web link somewhere for what is purportedly their music and "fortunately" we don't have to go there and we don't! (that's no loss I hear you say... Wow! surprise me with your brilliance WWB's) Artists that post real product, we (along with many others) may well get interested in! They have put their money where their mouth is to start! Through taking that giant step and buying an international stamp, they have opened up a world of possibilities... They can get out there and kick some goals! Everyone in business respects that! And (in the words of Ali G) "respect man" it's "your" starting point for success! End of story! Blogg away but don't expect any favours. Kindest Regards Norman McCourt (director AMMA, Madra Beag Music and Editor An'R-artist repertoire and international licensing) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Quokka Date: 23 Jul 08 - 10:09 AM Hmmm...For someone who wants this thread shut down, Stormin' Norman's sure got a lot to say... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 24 Jul 08 - 06:36 AM The thing about business models of any sort is that sooner or later there is a contract between two parties for the exchange of goods and services regardless of how these are conceptualised or produced. Using the example of the proposal outlined by Guest .rihard smith above, these contracts involve the exchange of rights to promotion/sale of artists product for some kind of fee, percentage of sales etc. Now assuming negotiations had been concluded and Guest rihard had agreed to part with his hard earned $2700 and the contract was not fulfilled as per whatever was initially agreed we have two possible scenarios. 1. If Guest rihard lived in Australia and he had entered into a contract with some sort of musical promoter her would have some kind of legal comeback. Either directly from the promoter or indirectly from the company concerned. Of course if the promoters business was not registered then it becomes really messy and basically not worth the cost of legal fees for the musician to get his money back. In other words ripped off. Oh did someone say in one of the posts above that there are musical promoters out there in cyberspace at this very moment who are using unregistered business names? 2. Given the same circumstances but with the artist living overseas, the outcome would be just a straight out ripoff with virtually no effective comeback. Either way Guest R loses! Now to my mind it also begs the question of why someone in say the US, the UK or Europe would be asking someone in Australia to promote their music internationally anyway? Thats not to say it may not be possible but then again the reasons why may be more obvious to others. Finally, it is really worth highlighting for those who are less familiar with the Mudcat the fact that many, most if not virtually all contributors to the forum are musicians professional, or not, who take an active interest in music across a whole range of styles, forms and instrumentation. Many of these people also have direct experience of the business side of the music industry. They are not schmucks contrary to what some alleged promoters with unregistered business names might think. Cheers Andrez PS: Oh by the way guess what I just found? Pictures of our Norman. Just do a search on the page for a name of interest. There are four of em on that page and at least one elsewhere on the site. Not too sure about the reference to bananas but it doesnt sound very appealing!. At least we have some sense about who is talking to us. http://www.barrytomesmediagroup.com/index.php?f=data_business&a=4 So he has been slumming around the fringes of some music scene after all. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 24 Jul 08 - 04:58 PM Norman McCourt, Director AMMA It was I who started this thread, wondering if an email I had was legit. Of course you don't have to have a website but there can be few businesses and organisations who have not a web presence courtesy of other sites. I'm sorry you have taken this one so badly but boy am I glad I made that post and didn't do business with you! John Wilson |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Jul 08 - 05:13 PM No, I don't think it's necessary for a business to have a Website. If a business deals with people face-to-face and forms long-term relationships, that's the best way. BUT.... if you are doing business by e-mail or phone solicitation, don't expect people to trust you unless you have a visible presence. A Website is a pretty good substitute for a physical presence because it has at least some feeling of permanence. AMMA didn't want to provide that feeling of presence and permanence, and now wonders why people aren't willing to give the firm their trust. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Pistachio Date: 24 Jul 08 - 05:45 PM A QUOTE from Norman, via Max...about messages up. "And as for 75,000 bloggers involved with mudcat... From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands! Now what are the words of that song... Fat drunk and stupid Got nothing to say Fat drunk and stupid Gonna say it anyway" UNQUOTE. To Norman: How unkind, how unnecessary and how dare you generalise. The Mudcat forum has many intelligent, thoughtful and caring members. Read further threads and learn. Your cheap swipe at spellings was quite unnecessary too, go away and grow up. Yours sincerely, Hazel. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 26 Jul 08 - 05:34 AM QED |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,WestCan Date: 02 Aug 08 - 02:43 AM I received 2 unsolicited emails from this organization, much like others who have written in this forum. Like the others, I did an Internet search as any business operator would as part of due diligence. This forum was one of the first that was found. Any organization that is attempting to connect with potential international customers must surely realize the need to have a website that will provide legitimacy for the seller of these services. A website would be very important for you even if its only role is to define the proposed service in more detail -- the email does not provide any information regarding this. The legality of what has been posted on this forum is certainly not an issue -- here in Canada the business information offered to people has much more detail. I believe the same is true in other countries as well. The protection is usually for the consumer -- not the supplier. However, that being said, I am not sure what Amy Winehouse has to do with AMMA. Since the photo of her has a copyright notice that it belongs to AMMA, this sparked the interest that generated my web search research. The marketing email (spam to some) worked in that regard. At this point, I can't find any reference to a connection between Amy Winehouse and AMMA, although I am keen to learn. Is Amy Winehouse a client? or have you just licensed her image for your marketing program? If AMMA does not have a legal connection with Amy Winehouse, this would appear to be a major international legal problem. Does her management know about this marketing program? If AMMA is monitoring this forum, perhaps you can provide some details. If you closed a deal for Amy Winehouse for a $2700 fee... I'll sign up tomorrow! This could be super! Michael |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 02 Aug 08 - 05:09 AM Oh ho, they are still at it are they? The good thing about this thread is that it puts a SPANNA into a certain SPAMMA's wagon wheels by alerting artists to the possibility that something may not be all that legit. There are enough dodgy promoters in the music industry as it is! Dunno if you felt like posting the letter Guest, WestCan, just to see how they are presenting themselves? Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Chordman,UK Date: 02 Aug 08 - 11:59 PM Andrez is right Michael (West Can) These people are definitely 'not the full shilling' A genuine publisher will take your songs, offer you a proper contract and pay you money. You don't pay them money to promote you! I too wondered about the Amy Winehouse connection and the legal status of using her image for their promotion! To quote our good friend Andrez again, there are indeed enough swindlers out there in the real music industry. No need for you to give your hard earned cash to a vanity publisher like AMMA. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Jean Michel Daudier Date: 03 Aug 08 - 08:41 AM I'am from Miami. Today, I received my third email form AMMA asking me to send my music. I'm glad to found this blog to help me making a decision. Thanks to all of you and keep up the good work. Jean Michel Daudier Singer & Songwriter |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Anna Date: 03 Aug 08 - 08:52 AM I also got an email from them and I was wondering what this was about. I would like to know where they got my email from. If they look for artist through print media or concerts or whatever, how come they found me, since I am not doing concerts neither am I in the print media? Why would some PUBLISHING company want their customer to pay them 2700 dollars? Usually the artist gets money from them. I could write more but most has been said already and I am just angry and confused right now. x |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Rowan Date: 03 Aug 08 - 07:22 PM Hmmm...For someone who wants this thread shut down, Stormin' Norman's sure got a lot to say... Not really. More like 'very little to say but using lots of words to say it.' Why would some PUBLISHING company want their customer to pay them 2700 dollars? From a cursory spin though the link posted by Andrez it seems, to me at least, that at least some of the money is spent on international jaunts by the likes of Barry and Norman; nice work if you can get someone else to pay for it. I also got the impression from that site that folks performing in blues, roots and other forms of "folk" music and lore would not be AMMA's cup of tea. Mudcat performs yet another vital community service. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,WestCan Date: 04 Aug 08 - 02:07 AM Not much text to quote... just an image with Amy Winehouse and some enticing verbiage around it. There was enough of a "story" to prompt me to check it out. That was why I did the original Internet search. I guess these guys don't need a web site but they do need to send spam to the world. I received 2 copies the same day. Once I found this site, they quickly entered the pixel bucket. Michael |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 08 - 03:14 AM I am sure Amy Winehouse's Management and label will be not pleased with AMMA using a image of her to promote this service called "promotion'. Stay away from this Company! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 08 - 03:43 AM I received a spam email from AMMA today with a brief message to send my music to them. I followed up the email to find out what services the Company offered. I was contacted by a very rude and arrogant person at AMMA named "Lynda Jones". Here is the email exchange: August 4, 2008 Hello Lynda, I would like the terms of the Agreement and the fee structure and your services first thanks. The information you have sent me explains little about your services. Regards, Shane … Hello Shane, Those things are impossible to say because we don't even know what you do. In any case I wouldn't know. I'm not in legals or accounts only promotions! All agreements are different that I know! Completely different! Fee structures I don't believe we have such a thing because every case is different and some fee like mechanicals etc are set by local laws and legislations etc collection societies whatever. Not by us. Kindest Regards Lynda Jones (Distribution Manager- AMMA). …. I have heard too many negative things about AMMA, you are just preying on Artists. I am sure Norm McCourt will be impressed with your lack of communication skills and the way you have contacted me with your spam emails. Good luck! …… Hello Shane, Oh your a "Mudcat" blogger! That's what we thought. Trouble with all these bloggers is they never do anything just complain! And thenblog some more!! It's a life style! On the www you can say anything and they do! Trouble is, anyone with anything or relevance to say won't put it up on a blogg site! Why would you? Too busy doing your stuff! And you don't want anyone to find out what you really know! I have no problems communicating with anyone in the know! But when people start to get ahead of themselves with questions that can't be answered! If you don't like the music bizz... Don't get involved! It's not for the faint hearted that's for sure! We probably get between 50 and 100 emails a day from people like yourself which doesn't phase us but it wastes your time! And we were in this industry before you were born and will still be in it when you finally get a job doing something else so... Don't say I didn't tell you so! Kindest Regards Lynda Jones (Distribution Manager- AMMA). ……… After this experience I would stay a million miles away from this Company! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Lydia Date: 04 Aug 08 - 04:28 AM Hi. I see the thread is about a month old but I received an email from them this week (I am based in South Africa). Has anybody had any substantial contact or more information about them since? it does seem a bit dodgy 'cause I requested more information and received and email with a document to complete (listing all the songs and authors etc of the band) and stating that I will receive more information from them as soon as they receive the completed list. Not transparent enough for me I reckon! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:17 AM That is AMMA's biggest problem, they are not transparent. Set your fees and services so everything is in black and white is a good start. Just do a google search and you will find lots of information on these spammers. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: skarpi Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:34 AM Hallo all we have this word in Icelandic " Amma " and it means granny. ATB Skarpi |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:52 AM Just wondering if Norman hasnt had a sex change operation and has now morphed into Lynda. Their writing styles are so similar. Anyway, trawling the web as you do when looking up a scAmma I found this little gem about how they are promoting themselves at this site. This is a Canadian musician who I hope hasnt really taken up and "offers" that might have come his way. The link is as follows: http://www.michaelgeorgeband.com/guestbook It seems that they like to make comments in the guestbook of an artist trying to "impress" and big note themselves. I mean, look at the rubbish below, it dates from about 2006 I think: ------------------------- > Hi M & S , Thank you for the excellent music and information you forwarded to us. I'm sorry if it has taken us some time to get back to you but we receive over 100 CD's every week and it takes some time to work through them all! We listen to them all with a view to where the artist and music might best be placed if it is of suitable quality. Most is not of course! As we are overseas in Europe, Asia and the USA frequently, office/studio time for listening to new material is also often limited. We have recently just returned from Russia and EEMC 2006 so are back on the trail for great music. I have today had a good listen to your excellent offering and have this day replied in writing to you with a letter of offer. You should receive this in the mail in the next 7 to 10 days. We have affilliations and associations with over 60 international labels and are expanding all the time! Our work spans publishing, licensing, film and radio in many countries. We also have several number one artist, Grammy award winning artists and gold/platinum award winning artists and writers in our catalogues/roster who we do regular licensing, publishing, sub publishing and publishing administration work for. So please do give our letter of offer some serious consideration and we look forward to hearing more of you and your music in the coming months. Kindest Regards, Norman McCourt. (Director-Australian Music Marketing Abroad) (Director-Australian Radio Services) (Editor-An'R artist, repertoire and international licensing) --------------------- All this from a company that doesn't even have a registered business name, let alone a website! Give us a break! Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Lojo Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:17 AM Thanks to everyone for this information. (Including Norman and Lynda and all their exclamation points.) For once I decided to do my homework rather than just hitting the reply button. Glad I did! (I beleive that's a legitimate exclamation point.) In fact, I think I'll sign up with Mudcat to stay involved with and be supportive of this wonderful community of musicians. (I checked - you definitely have a web presence.) Here's to all of us hard-working musicians - cheers! Lojo |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:15 AM Dear anon guest, I'm afraid to say that that particular link makes AMMA look positively kosher but I think I'd be best advised to give both a miss. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:39 AM Probably the only publishers honoured by a Pete Seeger song, If I 'ad an 'AMMA. and here they are a million years later e-mailing us all These compilation albums are weird - I was on one once - not done by AMMA, but I ended up on an airplay chart. DJ's were playing my song. Having said that I never got any PRS money. Usual thing. If radio stations HAD to log every play and pay for them, I imagine it would have paid for itself. I did send an album to this AMMA company and they asked for money which I just didn't have. so that was that. I think maybe if you use a place on a compilation disc like this - you need to take special advantage - run your own campaign. Its no use just handing money over. You have to have a plan in mind. Its like buying a new guitar or amplifier. Get out of it what you can! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM To paraphrase a point made by our elusive Australian friends: There are two kinds of Music Businesses: 1) There are those whose work speaks for itself. They work hard and achieve success for the artists they represent. They have have named artists, web presences, phone numbers for their many international contacts and physical offices with their names on the door. They don't need to approach artists, because artists are beating a pathway to their door. 2) Then there are "Web Music Businesses" who claim to do A&R, licensing, publishing and all kinds of other stuff. They harvest email addresses of independent/ unsigned artists from websites and listings, use lots of exclamation marks in their correspondence, and should you reply to them, will promise the moon on a string (for a small fee). I can't quite figure why anyone like this should need money up front, what with those grammy-winning artists, gold and platinum albums and number one hits. Maybe the royalty cheques take a while to come through. Norman/ Lynda, if you're still reading this. It's easy to slag off bloggers and independent musicians. It's not so easy to name *actual* record labels you're "affililated to" Or *actual* number one hits you publish. Or *actual* platinum selling artists you've worked with. Or *actual* artists who've covered songs you publish Or *actual" grammy awards your artists have won. Go on, make our day! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:11 PM Oh I do like a challenge, please answer it Norman and/or Lynda |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,A very well read independent musician Date: 11 Aug 08 - 10:25 PM Need I say more.... Thanks From A very well read independent musician |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:01 AM Contact us: http://www.amo.org.au/contact_email.asp?id=13 Sent off today TO Name: AMO Team Role: Content Producer Subject : AMMA This company, advertised on your website has unfortunately raised some suspicions, as evidenced by concerning anecdotal accounts found on the web. Anecdotal claims of lack of information regarding registration of business names, demands for large amounts of money, etc. etc. Also some very strange emails, including what appear to be apparent veiled threats demanding removal of any comments about them from Mudcat.org - a US musicians contact and discussion site. Can you verify that they are legitimate? ~~~~~~~~~ Thank you. Your message has been sent. Mudcat time: 12 August 1:33 AM EDT |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:05 AM So it seems like the cat got Normans loose tongue? Either that or he just doesn't have the "ticker" to engage in a public discussion about his "individual" approach to commercial practice. Just so you know folks, I've followed up again re AMMA with the Aust Arts Council who seem to be hosting/sponsoring the AMO website. My first mail was on July 22nd. They replied on 24/7/08 saying that someone would make contact. On 4/8 I followed up again re the outcome of my email.... i.e. to speak to an actual human being, with still no reply from the Arts Council. Today, the 12th Aug, I followed up with them again by email. If there is no reply through the customer service people at the front end of the Arts Council say by the end of the week, then the process escalates and I'll start to make contact re the issue through management or political channels. Either way the Australian Arts Council needs to justify their decision (or be held accountable) for giving any internet spAMMA a cloak of respectability. Will pass on any info re contact if or when it happens. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:19 AM "then the process escalates and I'll start to make contact re the issue through management or political channels." And when Andrez has finished putting a dose of salts thru the Australia Council, then there's still ACMA - indeed all you spam receivers should immediately contact the spam report page at http://submit.spam.acma.gov.au/acma_submit.cgi anyway. Several other Govt (Federal &State) agencies. Various Govt Political people - Ministers, local elected Representatives, etc The Australian Federal Police - if you really think Fraud is being committed... BTW, some of these games can also be played by non-Australians. But why should I alone have all the fun? :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:45 AM Hmmm, "Popkomm"??!! They want 'folk music' at a 'Pop Music' Trade Fair? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:12 AM "From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands!" Dear Norman: Kiss my ass. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:29 AM As I continue to look at all the related web sites (funny how Max & Joe were told that they don't need one ) that they boast about the related business being conducted all around the world. Some possibilities come to mind based on my age and experience. Firstly we here at Mudcat have been intrigued by the 'interesting' operations of "Suncube" :-) Possibly someone is trying on a web scam over the top of a legitimate business - has happened before. The people who wrote to Max and Joe seem to me to be indistinguishable from what we Aussies fondly call 'dickheads'. I would not readily give such people any of my money. Reminds me of the turkey years ago who I asked to stop spamming me, who claimed that if I didn't accept his spam from 'his huge business generating web domain', he would block all access to HIS domain 'from all Australia'. Apart from the amusing technicalities of such a claim (many Aussie accesses thru various ISPs at that time came from IP blocks 'not reserved for Australia'!!!) how would stopping Aussie outsiders getting TO him be any sort of 'punishment' to THEM? I'm still scratching my head... Seems a strange way of generating goodwill to make vague and improbable threats against people who have a genuine interest in what they are supposed to be peddling... I am led to view "http://www.creativeinsightuk.com/" Contact for further information: Creative Insight Birmingham Central Library Chamberlain Square Birmingham Where I find "90% of our services are free within Birmingham" "Commitment to open access for all to IP knowledge" "Free clinics with lawyers and other professionals" So I find claims of money being wanted up front, a little odd... Just how are AMMA and Birmingham connected? Oh and "They don't appear to have an Australian Business Number" would mean that The Australian Tax Office would be very interested in them, no doubt... anyone wanna play that game? As far as I know, I think that all genuine 'businesses' are supposed to have one... unless it is a 'backyard' operation, run directly under someone's personal tax stuff. For one thing, if you have any financial dealing with them, you need their ABN when you send them money for YOUR tax return for any 'business deal', and GST is involved, which is why the ABN is essential... So it looks since there are so many of us worldwide, we are in a good position to check them out pretty much anywhere in the world they pop up to see if they really ARE genuine, since their PR approach to us has been, well apparently hostile, to say the least, from reading the correspondence with Max & Joe... :-) BTW, I find it hilarious that we Mudcatters are now considered 'bloggers'... :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Rowan Date: 12 Aug 08 - 06:04 PM Go, Foolestroupe!!!!! And, indeed, Andrez!!! we Mudcatters are now considered 'bloggers' I confess that raised my eyebrow too. And when I checked the link there was something about Norman's face that rang a rather tiny bell; I have been complimented by several on my memory for faces but I'm still trying to rack my brain for clues. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM Ta Rowan - but I doubt they will get any legal representation to sue an invalid pensioner with no assets, so while that might have scared away a few, I'm a bit of a dickhead myself when people start to insult me. I don't stress myself out seeking revenge, I just walking after them, wait till they die, dig them up and piss on them. "They don't appear to have an Australian Business Number" It's been suggested that they might be using another ABN - funny, I'm not sure that's really legal either. I also wonder whether the local Postmaster might be interested to know that the 2 (known so far) unregistered Business Names using that PO BOX seems to have some problems? The PO Box may just be in someone's private name, but if it is in a Business Name it is supposed to be a legally registered one if my memory serves me well. After all is is a crime to use an Aust Post Box when conducting fraudulent activities! And Aust Post DO have investigators who do appreciate a good tip off... :-) Me? I would never be so naughty as to be a 'dobber', but if others got such ideas... just thinking out loud about possibilities, I am... The claim about certain information about businesses being 'private' is wrong in Australia, and possibly intended to be just intimidation (in my lengthy experience!) to cover up possible fraudulent activities. No other possible explanation except 'stupidity' and the Courts don't let you off for either 'stupidity' or 'ignorance'! "No visible plaque about the business at the address they have used to claim they do business at. " Ah - as far as I know it is a legal necessity to have a visible sign at the address you have registered as the 'office for the business'. Some solicitors and accountants have a number of such plaques for such businesses that use them. A PO Box alone is not a legal 'location' for such an office - it's too bloody small to fit the desks in anyway. There are organisations around that rent you the space for your 'legal office' and let you use office facilities there if you need them. I seem to remember our new friends boasting that 'someone went to the wrong address' - that would apparently be an admission that the address advertised is deliberately and intentionally incorrect - that would be a legal breach. Thinking about the 'Chinchilla' link - it IS an Aussie town. Their behaviour reminds me of a friend who was hired to set up a computer system for a farmer, who then stopped the cheque claiming that he 'didn't like the advice' - even though he used it .. Also their attacks against anyone they don't like, their arrogance and displayed low level of education and intelligence reminds me of The AGMF - now Easterfest Fundy Xtians (look at the Wiki discussions about the site!) :-) That beaming face DOES seem familar Rowan... :-) keep the wheels turning! You do all know that some Aussies are renowned for getting into all sorts of places all around the world without authorisation - is it just me, or do some of their alleged 'artists' in those pictures have that look on their face that says "I don't know who the hell he is or why he is one of the several thousand other people who want to have their photo taken with me"? :-) Funny, but my searches have not revealed - for someone who has allegedly been in business 'for 30 years' (Maybe that's where you remember him Rowan, from TV - A Current Affair! - but perhaps from his 'other businesses!) a 'brag list' of just how many CDs the 'deals' have been responsible for selling! No Facts, just vague claims! I mean even Seth Riggs (the 'famous' voice coach) has listed (on his website!) every famous 'entertainer' who ever even rang him... :-) Sadly I can't find any evidence so far to refute the potentially damaging allegation that this 'business' is in any way different from the old "Vanity Book Publishing" racket - you paid a lot of money to have your opus 'published' - they just printed a few copies and sent you them - end of story; end of money. Their public attitude about 'web presence' so far isn't helping either - "Max - How much do you want to take it down?" !!!! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:47 PM Aaahhhh... QUOTE We'd like to paint a very bright picture of the music industry for you in 2007/8! Despite what all the "prophets of doom" tell you... It's as busy as ever!! The very same people who are telling you the CD is dead and all music is now free on the web are also selling you their software on CD to avoid being bootlegged!! For 12 years now AMMA has licensed many very successful artists with CD's through the influential An'R catalogue. So be seen on the real music radar at POPKOMM in 2007 and do business with the real world. The An'R catalogue delivers licensing and publishing opportunities to artists, writers, labels and new music in the international market place. Send your music and press pack to: Premium Service delivering Country Music to Radio Announcers (links to http://www.tamworthragepage.com/media.htm) UNQUOTE Once again, a dead end.... "Tamworth Rage Page Helen is no longer updating this website." (2007) Embarrassing, isn't it? :-) Ok - so who has ever heard of "the influential An'R catalogue" - A google search only revealed easily the info just above (from 'about 7,430 English pages'), if it SO 'influential'... Hmmmm,... "POPKOMM in 2007" Aussies set to steal Berlin's music limelight at Popkomm 2007 Monday August 13, 2007 A record number of Australians acts are set to make inroads in the European music scene at Berlin's Popkomm Festival, one of the world's premier music and entertainment trade events. With an international tradeshow and festival covering 30 clubs, eight Australian acts will participate this year, including Adelaide's hip hop pioneering trio the Hilltop Hoods. As a result of their attendance at the Great Escape Festival in London in May, the Hilltop Hoods secured billing at the legendary Glastonbury Music Festival 2008, and were later invited by Popkomm to appear at a special showcase in Berlin featuring the best emerging hip hop talent from around the world. But that doesn't refer to 'our friends' - it is a press release from "Matthew Proft, Arts, Culture and Entertainment Export Adviser for Austrade." Austrade is currently seeking Australian acts and labels to participate in the Popkomm 2007 tradeshow, to be held 19-21 September. "Austrade has been actively involved in promoting Australian music overseas for many years now and we are now seeing exciting growth, with a real increase in the numbers of artists and labels winning international deals," said Matthew Proft. Last year Austrade helped 124 music businesses achieve export sales worth more than $28 million. For more information on Popkomm 2007 visit www.austrade.gov.au/popkomm07. To learn more about export opportunities for music businesses contact Austrade on 13 28 78. MEDIA CONTACT: David Varga, Senior Media Adviser, Ph: 02 9390 2191 Mobile: 0411 604 755, david.varga@austrade.gov.au For further news and information from the Australian Trade Commission (Austrade) visit www.austrade.gov.au/mediacentre. I wonder if Austrade (a genuine Aussie Federal Govt body) have ever heard of 'our friends'... "Last year Austrade helped 124 music businesses" And they don't charge the artists (they spend Aussie taxpayers funds!) - would appear to be much more 'Bang for the buck" - and perhaps more artists too... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:54 PM Okaaaaay.... The only useful Google result was the previous one. Wiki had never heard of 'this influential catalogue'... After using several esoteric search engines, including ones specialised for Business searches, http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?p=An%27R+catalogue&ei=utf-8&fr=b2ie7 has a couple of artists claiming to be in that catalogue and AMMA is mentioned... :-) Well hidden though ... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:10 PM http://www.knotzmusic.com/eventz.cfm International Representation Deal - Sept. 17, 2007 Knotz ink deal with Australian Music Marketing Abroad (AMMA) for international representation. Represented by front man Norman McCourt, Knotz will be promoted worldwide for music licensing and publishing opportunities. They will also appear in the September issue (Number 27) of An'R Magazine and on the AMMA's music catalogue CDs for use at international music conferences. Hmmm - further down... "Turmic Records Deal - May 19, 2007 Knotz enters into an agreement with Turmic Records for worldwide digital distribution of The Antidote EP. For more information, take a look at the Knotz profile on the Turmic Records site. " and further yet... "Knotz Ink Deal with COMG - March 24, 2007 Knotz sign an artist managment deal with Craig Winstead founder of Cherry Orchard Music Group for artist management. Cherry Orchard Music Group is an artist management and music publishing company based in Pittsburgh, PA." Webpage - "© 2008 Cherry Orchard Music Group. All rights reserved." Hmmm - one that got away... :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ icewhole.com: Music - Listen to a track cached info of http://www.icewhole.com/site/music/music.cfm?musid=661 says "This song is an epic in itself, starting out smoothly and mystically sounding ... Gloom, You Must Fly & Earthly Things AMMA An'R-catalogue, issue no 27 (AUSTRALIA) ... www.icewhole.com/site/music/music.cfm?musid=661 - Cached" but funnily no mention of AMMA or An'R on THE CURRENT DISPLAYED PAGE! http://www.icewhole.com/eliksir "ELIKSIR GOING ABROAD Eliksir was introduced to different foreign record companies and distributors in Cannes and Berlin (Midem & Popkomm) in 2007, who have responded very positively to her material. The Hong Kong record company Silk Road will be releasing Earthly Things in the south-eastern Asian territory in 2008. Eliksir is currently recording a bonus track in Chinese (a traditional Chinese song) for their licensed edition. In the meantime the Hong Kong label has licensed the track Fairytale for a trade sampler and compilation. The music video for the bittersweet Fairytale can be viewed on www.myspace.com/eliksir or www.eliksir.org. The video is made by Harald Sando at Glamfish Productions. Secondly, she is collaborating with Capital Music and Media in Berlin to put together a tour and promotion in Germany this fall as the record will be distributed in Germany and Switzerland. Thirdly the record is being promoted in the Netherlands through IEP, focusing on airplay of two singles from the album. Finally Eliksir is nominated in the category "Best International Artist" by Exposure Music Awards UK for the song "Harbour Song"." Norman, where are you? Damn, another! Missed it by THAT MUCH! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:17 PM "An'R magazine" http://au.search.yahoo.com/search?p=An%27R+magazine&ei=utf-8&fr=b2ie7 (about 295 for An'R magazine) search for yourself Google - nothing useful visible near the top "Results - about 161,000" sod that for a kettle of fish... Wikipedia have never heard of 'this influential magazine'... Must admit got I distracted by the list of porno magazines I did stumble over though... :-0 |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:05 PM National Library of Australia http://www.nla.gov.au/ Your search - An'R Catalogue - did not match any resources. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:06 PM Also Your search - An'R Magazine - did not match any resources. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Rowan Date: 13 Aug 08 - 01:22 AM And when I checked the link there was something about Norman's face that rang a rather tiny bell; I have been complimented by several on my memory for faces but I'm still trying to rack my brain for clues. and for someone who has allegedly been in business 'for 30 years' (Maybe that's where you remember him Rowan, from TV - A Current Affair! - but perhaps from his 'other businesses!) I've been in Armidale for about 20 years by now and, while I did a little recording in Tamworth (a bit over an hour's drive south of here), I can't place him either here or in Tamworth. Before that, although I was rather well known around much of SE Oz I actually lived in Melbourne, where I was rather active in the music scene, even teaching recording/mixing and band techniques and radio production to high school students (two half hour shows per week on 3CR); perhaps I bumped into him around Melbourne. I'll keep thinking. Me a blogger?????? Ho hum. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 13 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM Wow, go Foolestroupe go! Well anyway today the Arts Council called. They said that the guy who first responded to my query had left hence no follow up re emails. I gave the caller the short story about a company with dodgy business credentials using the AMO online site to promote themselves and their alleged "services". I referred them to this thread to check out what has been learnt about that company, feedback by people approached by that company and of course the correspondence with Mudcat Central. Hopefully they will check it out but basically I was told that they would have no issues about removing the references to our spAMMA friends organisation and would happily follow that up. That sounded good to me! I also asked how long it would take and thats the tricky part. Since the website is defunct i.e. up but no longer being maintained due to lack of funding etc, etc, they have to contact someone who can access the site and also has the necessary permissions to make the required deletions. It may take a day or so or perhaps a week to action. If no change by late next week I'll follow up yet again re progress or other problems. Cheers, Andrez PS: Purely out of curiousity of course, where would one go on the Web if you did want to report any concerns about abuse of the Aussie Postal service? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:18 AM You could always start here, if you could not visit the actual Post Office hosting a particular PO Box, I suppose... but that's just a quick guess :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,sam Date: 13 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM Gosh, i got this following email yesterday "Hello Sam, Thank you for the excellent music and information you forwarded to us. I'm sorry if it has taken us some time to get back to you but we receive in excess of 100 CD's and demos each week. We are also overseas in Europe, Asia, South America and the USA frequently. So office/studio time for auditioning new material only occurs 3 times a year. I have today had a good listen to your excellent offering and have replied in writing to you with a letter of offer. You should receive this in the mail in the next 7 to 10 days. We have affilliations and associations with over 60 international labels and are expanding all the time! Our work spans publishing, licensing, film and radio in many countries. Recently AMMA was appointed international representative to the very prestigious Fmi Music Market Brazilia, Brazil. AMMA also picked up AustralAsian agency for the giant UK labels Revolver Records & Heavy Metal Records. We also have several number one artist, Grammy award winning artists and gold/platinum award winning artists and writers in our catalogues/roster. Do give our letter of offer some serious consideration as we look forward to hearing more of you and your music in 2008/9. Kindest Regards, Norman McCourt. (Director- AMMA) (Editor- An'R artist, repertoire and international licensing)" Now.......... having read much of the feedback above, i am very suspeciously nervous and don't know what's going on. I suspect that this AMMA company is a complete hoax. Is this a fact? Does anybody really know? bobajob9@hotmail.com |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Rowan Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:00 PM Caveat emptor! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:34 PM "Imogen Smythe" Been web searching for that name - Haha! :-) Wonder if it may be a fake name - unless someone has this same name as others far more famous http://www.amazon.com/phrase/Imogen-Smythe/ref=cap_kpl_pdp_7 http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Imogen+Smythe+&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2 |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Aug 08 - 10:49 PM "AMMA also picked up AustralAsian agency for the giant UK labels Revolver Records & Heavy Metal Records" http://revolverrecords.com/ http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=33226637 For Demo & Publishing submissions... You can now submit your demos and EPKs online! Check out the Submit Demo page on our web site: http://revolverrecords.com/submitdemo.php. Alternatively, you can still send them the old-fashioned way, to A&R Department Revolver Records 152 Goldthorn Hill Penn Wolverhampton WV2 3JA United Kingdom The main team consists of Paul Birch (Managing Director) Olivia Birch (Director) Nick Dunn (Label Manager) Anthony Herron (Label Manager) Christopher Woods (Future New Media, IT) Ciarán Jordan (Digital Sales and Repertoire) ??? Cds Vinyl DVDs at Revolver Records Revolver Records in Phoenix, AZ 4214 N 7th Ave 85013 602-795-4980 CDs, Vinyl, DVDs, Turntables. www.revolveraz.com/ ??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.heavymetalrecords.co.uk/ ©2004 Heavy Metal Records. All Rights Reserved. Telephone: +44 (0) 1 902 345 345 || Information/problems/help: info@revolver-e.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Somebody in UK should have the contacts necessary to verify this. Thanks Guys. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: cobber Date: 13 Aug 08 - 11:24 PM I don't get on the Mudcat often these days so I'm sorry I missed this thread when it first appeared and descended to the angry level it did. Yes, I know Norman. He was a member of Cobbers for about ten years, first as a sound and recording engineer and then as our bass player. He started AMMA when the band finished. In fact, it was Norman who introduced me to the Mudcat about ten years ago. I have always known Norman to be hard working and completely honest in his dealings. He may be a fairly hard-headed businessman but his efforts as a studio owner and engineer have helped many bands get a recording out from way back in the days when it seemed a lot harder than now with ther proliferation of "home" studios, cd burners etc. Norman has always promoted independent music in the way mentioned in earlier posts. He takes cds to the big record fairs and puts in the effort to sell them to overseas companies. I am not saying that you should all rush out and sign up with AMMA. Everyone has to research what's best for them. I guess I'm saying that it's disappointing that this thread has been so vitriolic. John Armstrong (cobber) jjarmstrong47@hotmail.com ex Cobbers Bush Band, Melbourne, Australia |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Peace Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:06 AM He may be all that to you, Joan, but he did a bad job making any sales here with this remark: "From what I've read, seen and heard they would appear to be a bunch of losers at their place of work with too much time on their hands!" From my POV anyway. I have posted once to this thread (now twice). I won't be posting to it again unless it's to read an apology from him. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:51 AM Dear John, Thanks for your personal input. But things seem to now have gone beyond the point of no return, with their own momentum as verifiable facts come to light. "He may be a fairly hard-headed businessman" But if I can't distinguish him from the many other "hard-headed businessmen" I have also known, who I have not been able to distinguish from "ignorant dickheads", I don't know how others will think. As he seems to NOT WANT Web exposure, perhaps the world is leaving him behind, and irrelevant now? If he can't keep the Business Names he trades under in Australia Legally Registered, and does not appear to have any ABN, then forgive us if we mistake him for an incompetent con artist. How do we know if he is honest, paying correct taxes (about $250 of that $2700 would be GST), and not ripping people off? Also, since he and his alleged cronies stormed in here and 1) attacked and insulted us 2) told us 'porkies' about certain legal matters, including so called 'privacy' of the details of his (legal?) 'business' 3) made possible veiled threats about what will happen to any personal information that users and owners of this site disclose 4) apparently offered a bribe to Max to remove any mention of his activities here, and boasted that he had bullied others elsewhere into doing so I don't think that he can EVER have much credibility here. Apologies, however may satisfy SOME... However... He seems to REFUSE to wish to provide any FACTS (just vague unverifiable boasts of the sort that con artists also do!) about WHO he has helped, how much and how many, etc. He also seems to have failed to have lodged any copies of his alleged 'publications' with The NLA, which would have provided him with lots of 'cred' - VERY strange for one who allegedly 'does everything the old fashioned way before the web'. Now with about 100 CDs received each week, if ONLY 2 paid $2700 each, that's about $270,000 a year, which would appear to be a decent enough 'non-taxable' income, even with the necessary 'expenditures', nudge, nudge, wink wink, say no more... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:54 AM After my life experiences, I don't tolerate Bullies any more, I work very hard at destroying them. Also, I don't give up easily... "I wait for them to die, then dig them up and piss on them" |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: cobber Date: 14 Aug 08 - 02:34 AM I have to say that I didn't like much that I read in this thread and I don't think Norm handled things well at all. I can only comment on the person I've known for a long time and I added my view because nobody else seemed to have heard of him. I don't think he made too many friends here. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 06:10 AM So, to take any of this seriously I checked out the people who are saying they have had problems to see if they were at all credible. This is what I found... (not hard to find as it is his link) http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/index.htm Apparently, this guy is a "Wordsmith and Computer Systems Person". Well, there seems to be a bit of false advertising going on here too don't you think?. All you really need to do is check out his site to see that he is living in a fantasy world (and could also be slightly retarded!) Talk about clogging up the internet with meaningless B/S! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 06:35 AM Oh, and Sandra form Sydney, your not much better. Maybe you should tear yourself away from your computer and see a hairdresser! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:30 AM Well, the more I find out about the posters on this thread the more inclined I am to think why the hell should he respond to this garbage. Taking sneaky photo's outside the building, pretty pathetic really. When he did respond someone piped up and said "boo hoo stop being so mean", well have a look at yourselves and what you have been saying. Pot calling the kettle black don't you think? Who are you people to comment anyway? I haven't recognized 1 of you as an "Is" a "Will be" or a "has been". Leaning more towards the "NEVER WAS & NEVER WILL BE". 1 person said something sensible and I took that advice onboard about using this type of promotion as a tool in the bigger plan. So thank you to that person for that advice, which was what I was thinking anyway. And, I wish them the best of luck. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:43 AM What's wrong Andrez? Scared? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 07:52 AM Thought so! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:04 AM Thanks for your input John, at least we have some sense of where Norman fitted into the scheme of things. As you say Norman hasnt handled things very well. If you are in contact with him perhaps you could prevail on him to respond to some of the issues raised above. People dont like feeling that they are being conned and that is exactly how Norman and his "partners" present. The incoherant rants and raves sent to Max did nothing to further Normans credibility at all! It also opens him up to a fair degree of piss taking! Something that Mudcatters are very good at if anyone hasnt noticed already? Something simple rational and lucid would go a long way to addressing and clarifying some of the issues issues raised in this thread. If he is unwilling to take the opportunity to respond for whatever reasons then he is setting himself up for the kind of caning he has received to date and despite your reference on his behalf there is nothing to suggest that there is something to be gained for any artist through any business relationship with AMMA. > Otto, you PM'd me to ask for the photos I took of the alleged AMMA offices. Ordinarily I'd have no problem doing that but having seen the abusive tone of your last posts I'm not that convinced that your contributions are all that constructive in the context of getting to the bottom of what AMMA and Uncle Norman are all about so I think I'll pass on that for the moment. If you are Melbourne based you can easily go there yourself or get someone to go round for you. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:09 AM Scared, just as I thought. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:20 AM From the garbage you people are talking (not all of you, but the obvious ones) I bet these "Alleged photos" don't even exist. Sounds like you have gone shy. So really, if they exist, send them. Just so I know where to go next week! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Jeri Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:27 AM Hey Otto, does the phrase 'last nail in the coffin' have any meaning for you? I never heard of this company before and I probably never would have. Thankfully, now the world can do a Google search and see what sort of stuff Norman and his proxy (if Otto really is a proxy) write and steer clear. Thank you for letting the world see how unprofessional you are. No need for negative comments from others when you volunteer your own. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:29 AM So, tell me Andrez... Have you actually used AMMA's services? Same question to you FOOLstoop (or whatever) and Sandra bad hair of Sydney? I am thinking that the answer will be a big fat NO! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:32 AM Jeri, Go back to bed. Whatever. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Jeri Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:52 AM My bad. Google doesn't seem to know you exist. I hope that doesn't mean you really are a scammer. You'd think Google would at least find people you represent. I hope you're not getting paid for public relations, Otto. This whole thing is coming off like an Oz music twist on a Nigerian scam. So, tell me Andrez... Have you actually used AMMA's services? Same question to you FOOLstoop (or whatever) and Sandra bad hair of Sydney? I am thinking that the answer will be a big fat NO! I don't think they feel like they're missing anything. Why would anyone want to do business with the sort of people who've written the sort of things that appear in this thread. If it's not a scam, your defensiveness probably makes people think it might be. Thanks to you, now many people will avoid you. Keep talkin'. Here's some more rope... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:58 AM Oh my god... YOU IDIOT! LMAO |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:10 AM Did the hair comment hit a raw nerve with you too? I can see why! Look, don't worry it is nothing a good stylist can't fix, that is if you can afford it! (Hope you have deep pockets) I'm bored now, so Andrez if you ever find the nerve to put your money where your mouth is you know where you can reach me. Oh, I almost forgot; just as I thought.... No! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Jeri Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:16 AM 100! ==================================== |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:22 AM Oh Jeri, I do apologize. I have just re-read your comment about my unprofessionalism, and I think you may think I am Norman McCourt. Which I am not. Just to set the facts straight. To bring a little bit of sense back to proceedings. But I am still LMAO! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Otto Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:24 AM LMAO! Tight arse! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 14 Aug 08 - 12:10 PM I have been watching this thread with a great deal of interest. I have learned much. One of the things that I have recently gathered is that grown people can behave like children. It started well, had a dip in the middle, improved and has now taken a further downward turn. Do we need people calling each others names? Can this thread return to a discussion among adults? Cobber you know Norman, can you tell us something about the gentleman please? Just in case anyone wonders who I am, I am a "never was and never will be" although I would add that I would certainly like to be and thats enough for me. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Max Date: 14 Aug 08 - 04:43 PM This thread is closed. It appears that Norman/otto/bigo is attempting to gather the personal information of participants of this thread and volunteers in order to convince us to delete this thread. He has already contacted a number of us with a story of an assault of a woman and a police investigation in which we are culpable because of an (incorrect) address that appears in this thread. Mr. McCourt tells me that he is assisting an investigation by collecting volunteers' and everyone involved in this thread's email address, mailing addresses and phone numbers. He also told me that he had a friend that lives in my area who is going to stop by and take some photographs of my home and family. He knows where I live, but somehow I am not concerned about a man who is 10,000 miles away. I'm done with this. The thread stays, but enough has been said. Please just ignore Mr. McCourt if he should contact you, and know that he didn't get any information from me. If anyone is concerned for their safety at any time, I suggest you contact your local authorities. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,KingMalik_ Reverbnation Artist. Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:26 PM I have got the same mail from this amma sh&%t.and this dude,Imogen Smythe.from victia australia.and i have been trying to figure what these emails are about.i found no website,but i found a few artist on soundclick and myspace claiming to have representation from this company.but i saw no logo on thier pages.asking me about pulishing my music and some kind of contest they are having and all entries must be in by dec 22/2009.this guy needs to be stopped quick.and after reading these comments i will just take and delete this spam! 1 luv! KingMalik ps.who knows who this guy really is? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Joybell Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:29 AM hildebrand here: something funny going on. reading the posts from "mccourt" & surrogates, i cant believe that they are written by australians. apparently, norman mccourt is a genuine player on the music scene, and wouldnt be expected to behave in this way either. is it possible that somebody based in, say, the ukraine, nigeria, asia, etc, has appropriated his name for purposes of scamming? have any of mccourt's friends attempted to consult him personally on this matter? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Joybell Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:18 AM hildebrand again, with further thoughts: given that amma is a well-known name in the business, and has apparently recently become inactive, is it possible that somebody could use the name for a brief scam operation -- getting away with the dosh before anybody checked up? the person who represents himself as mccourt clearly has substandard english language skills. unless he has some sort of language disfunction or is very poorly educated (in which case, he would have a secretary to handle his correspondence), then he is not a native english speaker, ie, not australian, and therefore not mccourt. the implied threats are more typical of foreign scammers. is the fitzroy address actually occupied, or is it just a mail drop? is the real norman mccourt available for comment? h |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:37 AM Has anyone done the obvious and consulted the Australian Musicians Union? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Dec 08 - 08:28 AM I received a barrage of emails over a lengthy period, allegedly from the noted email address, and allegedly the named individual involved - and involved much technical correspondences with the ISPs, ncluding my own. The emails involved what I perceived as many veiled threats, including threats of sending copies to 'all my friends', and eventually led to feelings of my being stalked - an offence under Australian Law. The emails I received seemed after technical investigation and personal contact with the ISP named in the emails, and my own ISP (I used to be a Sys Admin) to be clearly coming from the alleged address. I just reported them as spam to the appropriate authorities - and when they kept up I reported them as Stalking to the appropriate authorities - an offence under Australian Law. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:09 PM i received similar emails from the same AMMA, i`m now realize this is a hoax ... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:02 AM Hi JoyBell, yes the Fitzroy address is real i.e. it is a unit. Who knows of course whether the address is just a mail drop. For what its worth I reported the organisation to the State Consumer Affairs people. There was no feedback other than an acknowledgement that they had recieved the complaint. If they are still putting "stuff" out there its probably worth letting them know they are still active. Alternatively if anyone else wants to add their own concerns or experiences to the list here is the relevant link: Dob In A Scam Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:27 PM I am from Atlanta, Ga in the United States and I am wondering why a business professional looking to do business in their country and abroad would allow themselves to get involved in such negative conversations via internet which obviously is public domain and expect people not to concerned with the company's validity and credibility. I mean, seriously, if you do music, then do music. If you are a real establishment, then create a positive presence on the web, like a website and customer or client testimonials so it will help promote your business and help reduce threads like these. If you are an established company with established clients then you shouldn't have a problem putting up a website with a valid address, phone number and such. Why does that seem to insight such angry responses from a company that claims to do business with the likes of Amy Winehouse or anyone associated with her? I mean, all of the majors, major independents and independent record companies all have a presence on the web. That is the new way. I mean, what sells more cds or downloads? I'd have to say downloads. Actual physical media sales are taking a downward turn since the introduction of internet downloads and file sharing. So, having a web presence is essential if you want to convince anyone working or surviving in the music business that you can actually be effective when promoting and marketing any artist, period. I received an email actually asking people to submit their music for an award. It read as follows: It's not to late to have your music nominated for this inaugurate award. You can mail your music direct to: AnR Magazine. PO Box 319 VIC 3065 AUSTRALIA Or for a submission form email: anrpub@bigpond.net.au Deadline for submissions is the 14th of December 2008. Recipients will be published for MIDEM 2009. I decided to send something just for the heck of it. I received an email regarding a letter of offer. Nothing was mentioned about any award or award ceremony. It read as follows: Thank you for the excellent music and information you forwarded to us. I'm sorry if it has taken us some time to get back to you but we receive in excess of 100 CD's and demos each week. I have today had a good listen to your excellent offering and have replied in writing to you with a letter of offer. You should receive this in the mail in the next 7 to 10 days. We have affilliations and associations with over 60 international labels and are expanding all the time! Our work spans publishing, licensing, film and radio in many countries. Recently AMMA was appointed international representative to the very prestigious Fmi Music Market Brazilia, Brazil. AMMA also picked up AustralAsian agency for the giant UK labels Revolver Records & Heavy Metal Records. We also have several number one artist, Grammy award winning artists and gold/platinum award winning artists and writers in our catalogues/roster. Do give our letter of offer some serious consideration as we look forward to hearing more of you and your music in 2009. Kindest Regards, Norman McCourt. (Director- AMMA) (Editor- An'R artist, repertoire and international licensing) So logic tells me that there has to be a sinister motive involved because in the follow up email, an award was never mentioned. Whose to say that I didn't already have a publisher or vehicle to market my music overseas? And why wasn't an offer ever mentioned in the initial email? Please, if you are really a credible company, just keep it real from the beginning. If you are trying to sell something, then sell it. Believe it or not, there are people who will actually purchase your services for face value as long as you are upfront about your purpose and can prove your credibility and abilities. But if you are trying to hide, deceive or mislead things then you risk these type of conversations posted on the web that will ultimately aid to the destruction of your legitimate or illegitimate business. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Y_Not Date: 17 Dec 08 - 09:45 PM We have been a theatrical agent in the UK for over 20 years, and also I'm also a lover of Folk Music. I would first of all like to congratulate all the genuine folk that have contributed to this thread and shown a real sense of community. AMMA are saying that they will take a percentage of the artist's earnings which then by definition means they become the artist's agent, personal manager, publisher or promoter. A guide from the THE BRITISH EQUITY UNION is; Never pay an upfront fee to an agent/ personal manager or promoter. A legitimate agent, publisher, manager or promoter would never ask for money upfront from an artist to join or register with their company. And if WE take the time to look after our fellows, and are then referred to as LOSERS by some spurious shady outfit, then I would like to say, I am proud to be a member of THE MUDCAT LOSERS. WELL DONE EVERYONE! www.nylandmanagement.com Tony Nyland |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:59 AM My old grandmother used to say: "never leave a possum unstirred". So for what its worth, here a pic of the master spAMMer himself with a bio no less. http://www.anrmagazine.com/about I'd be really interested if anyone can substantiate, or otherwise comment, on some or any of the bio claims on Normans CV. No problems if that isnt possible but at least there is a little more publicly available info straight from the horses mouth to flesh out the picture a little more. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,JHW in the Library Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:01 PM I had the 'award' email too. Thanks Andrez for the anr mag link. I'm still baffled by the approach! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:36 PM Well clearly the approach defies any logic if the business is legit. Its the risk to unsuspecting artists and musicians that concerns me about what is being put out on the 'net. I'd like to suggest that if anyone is really motivated to send any money for "promotional purposes" that they should reconsider and send it to any local charity in time for Christmas donations to the truly needy. That way the money will at least do something socially useful. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Date: 19 Dec 08 - 08:21 AM I see this thread's still going. Still no word from reply from anyone at AMMA to let us know which of their artists have had number one hits, won international awards. Just someone slagging off the posters here and making vague threats. Which isn't the way I'd expect an successful international music mogul to behave (like they'd have the time to be bothered...) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Joybell Date: 19 Dec 08 - 05:25 PM But why is the language in the posts on this thread -- by the company supposedly -- so different from the letters quoted here? It almost looks like a scam disguised as a scam, disguised as a scam. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Brian McCarthy Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:22 PM I just received an e-mail from AMMA asking for music submissions---I couldnt find any proof that these people exist---Scam? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:20 AM Scam !!! Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Dec 08 - 02:07 AM The funny thing is that when I tried to search for any artist who was with them, I only found a couple. A while later, some of them had removed the reference, or downgraded it in their resumes... :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 15 Feb 09 - 08:01 PM Funny... they have been quiet around here for ages. However, today I received an email that just says, "An'R accepts music by submission form only. If you would like to receive a music submission form Email: anrpub@bigpond.net.au With the subject header Music Submission form" Followed by a poster graphic for Canadian Music Week. I know the organizers of CMW wouldn't want to be associated this this crew and apart from having the graphic in the email body there is no reference to any association. Anyway, just another "heads up" that these assholes are still at their game and will likely snag another uninformed newbie with their deceit. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 15 Feb 09 - 08:25 PM Clearly they made you an offer you were able to refuse :-) Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 16 Feb 09 - 01:12 AM They replied to my "fuck off" response by sending another email that included a graphic with their logo and a bunch of artists I have never heard of or at least not in 20 years. However, the tag at the bottom of the graphic said: "in association with Canadian Music Week". Hmm... No doubt they are are scammers who prey on singer/songwriters who are looking for breaks. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:04 AM Of course if you happen to know the organisers of Canadian Music Week, you could have a quiet word in their ear about the claims of association. Dunno how they would respond, but if someone was trying to make money out of my organisation by claiming a non existent association, I know the lawyers would take a very dim view of same and they have been known to write some really pointed letters along the lines of "cease and desist". Alternatively, they could also advise Canadian Artists of the existence of a scam in their news letters. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 16 Feb 09 - 10:51 AM I just got the canadian music week thing too. I'm sorry the thread drops to expletives at times - don't forget that if someone now gets an AMMA or An'R email and googles to see what's what they'll get this thread - can we try and keep it presentable |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Rachael Rice Date: 16 Feb 09 - 12:05 PM This thread is so helpful, thanks for keeping it up. I just got the email from them today: AMMA is clearly invasive and horrible. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,fiddlercrab Date: 10 Mar 09 - 01:16 AM http://www.anrmagazine.com/about |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 10 Mar 09 - 06:52 AM An "interesting" link. However try clicking on the contact page for details of any specific person or office and you get Zilch. At least we can see the principal on the link above even if you cant get any actual contact details. :-) Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 10 Mar 09 - 07:09 PM Click on contact in the above message, then look at "about" and "endorsements". The ID of "about" is easy, does any one know of those pictured and quoted under "endorsements" |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: quokka Date: 16 Mar 09 - 09:15 AM About the "about" above... it's a bit of a worry when they can't spell 'Streets of London', Christy Moore or Stockton's Wing properly! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 16 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM Hi Quokka, Its doesnt get any better. If you do a search on some of the people cited under the "endorsements" section you get some weird stuff. For example, searching on one name takes you to this endorsee's website. Now I dont know who the artist is and its no reflection on that person (apart from their business sense) but when you look at the contacts link on this site, both spAmmer addresses and emails are listed again. If you do a search on some of the other names and poke around on these websites (as if you dont have a life and something better to do) its all seems to be a little "iffy". Leads one to speculate about an interlocking series of "websites" all reinforcing each other to achieve particular aims to the casual observer......... websites aren't particularly hard things to build and set up.............. but then I couldnt really that paranoid, could I? At least this discussion is serving to provide some perspective for working musicians who cant afford the time or money to deal with low rent business practices. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Joybell Date: 17 Mar 09 - 05:56 PM Hello Andrez, Quokka and Dennis and all again. Can't resist a puzzle. Can't find anyone who knows any of the performers here. Many of the links don't work. I'm still puzzled about the spelling mistakes. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Rowan Date: 18 Mar 09 - 05:40 PM It could be an attempt to try and con Google's algorithms into lifting the profile of AMMA's website. That, and the lack of attention to spelling in one's advertising, would almost certainly add up to a hallmark for low rent attitudes and practices. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,grumpy ray Date: 19 Mar 09 - 08:24 AM Ooh I do love a good mystery. Except that it isn't. It was when I first stumbled on this thread many months ago. I got one of those emails that seems to have upset everybody so. Compared to most of that sort of stuff that I get, simply because I'm in a band and have a miniscule web presence, it was rather tame. Normally I'd bin it but I scrolled down and the address was local. No probs, they can have a CD and, if nothing more, we'll at least have one kicking around someone's office in our most immediate market. I rifled one into the post and promptly forgot about it. A couple of weeks later an exceedingly glossy magazine, the seemingly much reviled AnR Magazine, a heap of accompanying CDs and a placement price list arrived in the mail. So far so good. I could follow the logic. I give you money and my band gets a placement in the magazine, the more the moola the better the view. I worked for a Melbourne street magazine for a few years and game is the same albeit a far more upmarket approach and a narrowly defined audience. Hmmm. Better have a look on the net, that paragon of virtue, surely that won't steer me wrong. Not much really, no web site, a few mentions and then I found this thread. It was just after it closed. The first time. I read the entire blog, as it was at that point, and to be honest, had more and more misgivings the deeper I got. I came on cobber's salutary remarks and snapped out of it. After all extrapolating inference is rather shaky ground upon which to perch an allegation. Norman's own addition obviously didn't help the situation but then how does a person react when one reads such things about themselves as have been inscribed in this thread. Anyway, I'd made up my mind so I forgot about it. Until a couple of days ago when, thinking I'd have a laugh with a friend, I found the thread again and realised it had arisen again, just as eloquent and equally as full of fact as its predecessor. You see Mudcatters, in the intervening months we sent Norman some money and in exchange we designed and placed a basic looking ad in AnR Magazine. Given it's glossy nature (and we're talking top end) it stuck out like dog's nuts. The 3 songs we put on the accompanying CDs came up ok but we master for hi fi not radio so our levels weren't as up there as most of the rest of the recordings on the discs. About a week after we got our copies of the mag we got a small licensing deal with a New York record company for one of the songs. A few other things have occurred since then and with our new album almost ready, we feel we're putting this next one out to far more opportunities than the debut. And we're not talking big biscuits for big biscuits were never promised. We are a niche band despite our predominantly folk/country approach and Norman's forte is sourcing licencing in foriegn markets. He does other things but we're interested in the licencing at this time. We have no desire to chase fame and fortune on any other terms than our own, and I have expressed this to Norman personally. His, or for that matter anyone else's agreement on that is not required. What Norman does won't suit everyone. He's not a starmaker. He's one of a myriad of people around the world, making a living by helping people who know their craft, generate a living for themselves. And won't always succeed as is the case in life. Up until we parted with the cash we had given Norman a CD and five sheets of paper, and he had given us an impressive industry magazine and 6 CDs. That's a pricey scam to be running among predominantly poor musicians. I've written this because some of you people have ripped yourselves off. I've no doubt Norman's services could be useful to some of you although probably useless for the rest. We have no problem throwing our CD at an opportunity when it comes along but I can understand how some people can be precious about that sort of thing. We use Norman's services because his magazine offered us, as we saw it, an opportunity to get into a market we hadn't thought about. I won't tell you I know Norman because I don't but I can say that since I've been dealing with the bloke I have found him to be a typical industry person, that is, able to talk and absorb as much bullshit as I can. But then isn't that exactly what this industry runs on? Bullshit. By the way, my band is grumpy neighbour and we're at; www.myspace.com/grumpyneighbour so you know I'm not having a lend of you. and no, we haven't put Norman on our site but we only briefly mention the fact that we've been in the soundtrack of Fat Pizza and Shift and Swift Couriers for the last 4 seasons. We're not super professional like other musicians. grumpy ray |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Warren Ont.Canada Date: 19 Mar 09 - 09:22 AM I just got an email too. Even though this post is quite old now the info and discussions still have merit. Doing some research to proctect your business is never a bad idea. And after reading all of this and not being able to come up with any solid info on AMMA myself I can safely say I will stay cautious of them. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 23 Mar 09 - 07:38 AM Just the other day received one of their missives, now under the name "Licensing & Publishing" with the same PO BOX address as the other companies... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,UK_Singer Date: 14 Jul 09 - 06:52 AM Hey, i've been getting emails from this guy for ages - i have no idea how he got my email. I decided to see what all the fuss was about and came across this forum. I think that the contributors to this thread are amazing and have informed and educated me on what was clearly a scam. I'm so grateful that there are people out there taking time from their busy lives to ensure that aspiring musicians like myself don't get fucked over! Thanks to all of you, you have made my morning a very interesting one! If only i didn't have to go to work and could read this thread right to the end. So many Q's - will norman ever reply? Are lynda and norman the same? Are Otto and norman the same? How many faces (both legitimate and illegitimate) does norman have? will he now get hold of my details and threaten me? Who knows?.... xx |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:18 PM No worries UK Singer. Australia isnt just a short drive up the road if you want to have a "discussion" about monies paid or services (allegedly) provided. I'm sure there are plenty of locally based promoters in the UK who can work with you to help get you to where you would like to be. The logic of the enterprise never made any sense to me: why would someone in the UK or the US or Canada for example, want to send hard earned money to an elusive organisation based in a country that is about as far away as you can possibly get from the mainstream music markets in the Northern Hemisphere? It might make some sense for local artists to consider using their services because at least you have some recourse through Consumer Affairs or similar agencies if you find that you need to have that kind of a discussion but for overseas musicians ? Never! In the meantime all the best for your career and make sure you spread the "word" about this particular scAMMer to anyone you know in the UK that might even remotely be tempted by any email "offers" from Australia. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,George E Brooks Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM Hi I am a lyric songwriter... I have 7 songs on CD's that are professionally arranged by Paramount Group in Nashville, TN. USA I am the sole owner of my songs. My record lable is (SKI Master Music) Ski Master music has a copyright and plus I am a member of (ASCAP) If you care to have one of my CD"s you can contact my by phone 604-521-7133 Fax 604-521-7157 E-mail venice@shaw.ca Thanks Much George E Brooks |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Western Canadian Guy Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:32 AM Thanks so much for keeping this blog up. You need stuff like this to expose these sorts of people. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: JHW Date: 20 Oct 09 - 05:41 PM Thanks. We did have one post From: GUEST,grumpy ray - PM Date: 19 Mar 09 - 08:24 AM Who used Norman's services and was a very happy bunny |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:04 PM Mind you the "happy bunny" was local to the town the state and Australia where " you know who" operate. Thats a whole lot different to promotion of the work of overseas artists. In their sort of circumstance the "happy bunnies" would have had some legal remedies open them through consumer affairs or the court system if they felt that what was promised was not what was delivered. The issue here has always been about being legally accountable, transparency and being able to deliver. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Anna Date: 22 Nov 09 - 10:08 PM Norman McCourt and AMMA are crooks and frauds. Don't send them any CDs or money. Any one who asks an artist for money to license their product is a fraud...Artists get paid for their licensed products!. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Lori Date: 01 Dec 09 - 12:15 PM Hi, I've met Norman (the real one!) a couple of times and read a couple of copies of AnR magazine. I've never had any in-depth dealings with the man, just a brief casual conversation, but I also know a few other people who have known him for longer than I have. I do feel able to vouch that he is not into ripping artists off nor insulting people. I can't comment on Australian legal matters as I have no knowledge in that area, but the business seemed to me 'legitimate' in terms of not stealing nor spamming. I would suggest that the 'AMMA' sending those emails people have been receiving, is not 'the real Norman McCourt'. It very much smells like something fishy and not like something the 'real' one would be involved in. That is just my take on it. :-) Lori |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Tony McManus Date: 07 Dec 09 - 06:15 PM I believe these people are criminals and Norman McCourt should be in jail. I have asked repeatedly to be removed from their spam list and the deluge of shite continues. I have been refered to as "a turkey" by McCourt who oddly then continued to beg for my business. When I pointed out that I already have two publishing deals, one of which covers Australia, he responded with some boneheaded drivel asking why I need two deals in Australia......seems his school covered joined up thinking the same day they covered manners and McCourt was absent. I have reported him to Telstra and I hope they prosecute him. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:26 AM those nice folks at AnR/ AMMA responded to my post with the following insightful comment- "your an idiot". Odd that someone claiming to be int the publishing business lacks the most basic grasp of english grammar. these people are scum pure and simple. I hope they are prosecuted and jailed. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,David Shaw-Parker Date: 02 Jan 10 - 08:00 AM I've had dealings over the internet with Norman McCourt and he's been nothing other than a genuine and reasonable fellow; a really nice guy as a matter of fact. I'm wondering whether there's another Norman out there who's making trouble... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Lori Date: 04 Feb 10 - 09:10 AM Yes David, I feel someone is pretending to be him to write their rubbish. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:39 AM Regrettably the "real" Norman hasnt been all that engaged in standing up for himself. I think anyone with a reasonable modicum of sense could distinguish between a troll and a legitimate person after a handful of posts In addition, the hypothesis of a fake Norman somehow doesn't account for the lack of registration of AMMA as a legal business etc discussed much earlier in this thread, nor does it account for the spurious requests for overseas artists to let AMMA do promotional work for them etc, etc etc. If there is an imposter around its time the real N stood up for himself Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:24 AM I see this thread has surfaced again... it took some months for "Norman/whoever" to stop sending me many abusive threatening emails (see message at 09 Dec 08 - 08:28 AM) - it appears that they may have ceased after some contact with various ISPs in the chain between us, who got full copies of everything - as did Joe & Max (since Max also got some "interesting/amusing" personal responses) ... oh, and several Aussie legal authorities, whose response was mainly underwhelming, to say the least... :-( no wonder ther are so many active scammers out there... Whether the 'scheme' is legal or a scam, I don't know (I'm only saying this since things were made VERY personal for me!) and don't really care... unless they start on ME again.... :-0 |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:38 AM Oh btw ... did a whois just now on http://www.anrmagazine.com/ at http://whois.domaintools.com/ Results... Whois Record ANrMagazine.com is for sale The owner of the domain you are researching has it listed for sale. Buy ANrMagazine.com now > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Interesting, eh wot! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:44 AM Oh - looking further at the 'search site'.. we get (domains for sale????) ~~~~~~ You must be a Gold Member to view other domains. Click Here To Upgrade Now! Example domains: gatesfoundation.org nasa.gov slashdot.com spry.com whitehouse.com hmmm... |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Y_Not Date: 22 Apr 10 - 02:26 PM I know this subject has cropped up again and again, but I received this email today, my partner did answer 2 international phone calls but could not hear the caller. I tried to phone and a lady answered, however, it seemed as if she was not able to hear me. From: The Mayfair Collection Subject: Dear Tony - Hello from Geneve, Switzerland Greetings from Geneve, Switzerland I trust you do not mind me contacting you in respect of a notice you poster on a website in respect of some Australian firm named AnR http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112553&messages=153&page=1&desc=yes Could you please tell me if this is LEGIT ? We have someone who claims to have won the reward and is looking for a HUGE sponsorship from us based on this award she is supposed to have won ! I look forward to your feedback, if, and when convenient. Many Thanks Sebastian I would just like to know what you make of this? Thanks Tony |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:08 PM Just read the whole thread and make up your own mind, mate. :o) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Marlene Duval and Associates, New York Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:39 AM My client received THIS threat this morning - actually it should have been directed to my firm here in New York - no name needless to say. I say, BRING IT ON "MATE" - "MAMMA, AND VIRGIN MUSIC AUSTRALIA ARE WAITING FOR YOU" ! ........................................................................ Private and confidential (Do Not Post read © information at bottom) Cease forthwith! Retract all unsubstantiated media immediately please! Before publishing always: (1) confirm with a minimum of at least 3 reputable and reliable (and liable) known sources. (2) interview the party concerned for comment. If you do not take these precautions it could be expensive now or at some time in the future as legislation concerning "litigation and the liability there of" are constantly being re-drafted! We have this matter in the hands of our USA attorney for further considerations. No action on your behalf will be considered a deliberate act of complicity, of liability. We will enter into no further correspondence in this matter. Kindest regards, An'R – artist, repertoire and international licensing. New Music Promotions Dept. The information contained in this email is intended only for the use of the An'R client to whom it is addressed and is confidential in all manner and also copyright © 2000. The information must not be forwarded, copied in part or in full or displayed on web forum or web blogg sites. To do so will incur an infringement to the applicable © law It contains privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any perusal, use, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise us by return email and delete the email without making a copy. Please obtain permission from the holder of the © before transmission to all 3rd parties. © 2000 An'R Publications. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Marlene Duval and Associates, New York Date: 24 Apr 10 - 07:15 PM Here is how my team see things…. Who does not want to be coining it in like Madonna or Lady GaGa ? Place adverts on free sites and mass spam e-mails. Attend 1 MIDEM function, or dupe people to represent you at a MIDEM function. People respond to spam, MIDEM, free adverts on free blogs and websites and chat pages specifically orientated to the music industry Etc. You only want non Australian clients for this to work. Charge a fee to potential musicians who are gasping for some PR and status-quo improvement, plus promises of potential contracts with big named distributors. Get a P.O. Box Address where people send money to. Make sure they only send physical CD, an MP3 could be traced or too much work to deal with – after all this is a scam, so, money in, not out. Bank the foreign money orders – or cash them. Buy a barcode (ISSN 13 NUMBERS +/- AUD $35.99). Possibly recycle the ISSN Barcode over and over. Print the odd monthly or quarterly Magazine (eg. in China, 40 pages, full color, low gr paper +/- AU$1300.00 per month ?) that you can send to your "exclusive" clients – do not forget, you may not sell these magazines as they are actually not genuinely recognised or accredited by any relevant music bodies. Make sure the recipients of the magazines are part of a select mailing list – no public enquiries allowed. Charge an extra fee for "AnR Awards" or/and "AnR Award nominations" (charge up to an extra AUD $2700.00 for this). Cancel the "award" ceremony at the last minute for some reason beyond your control (blame the caterer or an offshore volcano) and then simply mail something that will make the poor sods believe they won something. Optional is in which order you wish to follow the above 14 procedures. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 24 Apr 10 - 11:33 PM "We have this matter in the hands of our USA attorney" Unnamed & no contact address! Possibly mythical? :-) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: Andrez Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:32 AM The trouble is as the famous American saying goes, "there's a sucker born every minute" and thats how bottom feeders like this lot survive What gets me of course is that it appears that you don't even have to have a registered company or even a legitimate trading address to run these scams overseas. Just a computer and a pretty superficial "angle" to dangle out there to tempt musical newbies looking to promote their product in a pretty cut throat industry. Of course then there is the question of how any money that is actually made running this "show" is accounted for in terms of income? If there is no legit registered company, then is it private income and who is it that is actually benefitting? Hmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, wonder what the Tax Department thinks about that? Good on you guys in New York, keep up the good work! Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Daniel, Lisbon Date: 26 May 10 - 01:40 AM This AnR/AMMA (which has nothing to do with respectively AMA or A&R, two real music entities in Australia) has now reached Portugal, adding to the UK, USA, South Africa, Australia and believe it or not; this wannabe starlet Yolanda Soares even managed to get a sponsorship from Montepio bank, a 200 year financial institution by bragging about the "prestigious" AnR Award of Excellence. Well more precisely the fraudulent, fake, preposterous and pathetic sticker: http://www.montepio.pt/ePortal/v10/PT/jsp/montepio/patrocinio2.jsp Montepio bank's sponsorship managers know about this scam and guess what... they still have it on their Institutional page!!! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone heard of AMMA (Australia) From: GUEST,Marlene Duval and Associates, New York Date: 27 May 10 - 06:21 PM International Criminal Charges laid against Portuguese singer Yolanda Soares (Iolanda Isabel d'Albuquerque Pina Soares) and her Manager Carlos Vicente (Carlos Alberto Salvador Vicente) and "By The Music"(son o No.014672/020711 - contribuinte No. 506 227 871). The charges relate to obtaining goods and services by deception from international sponsors. Upon advice of Australian Authorities in Melbourne who have been investigating the illusive Australian Music Marketing Abroad (AMMA)and Mr Norman McCourt (apparently not a Director nor Editor of the A n'R - artist, repertoire and international licensing),criminal Charges have been laid against little known Portuguese singer Yolanda Soares (Iolanda Isabel d'Albuquerque Pina Soares), her manager Carlos Vicente (Carlos Alberto Salvador Vicente)and "By The Music"(son o No.014672/020711 - contribuinte No. 506 227 871). "By the Music" is a Portuguese registered business. Charges laid for "obtaining goods and services by deception". These charges relate to a National Marketing Campaign for her world tour , a sponsorship obtained with the use of fraudulent so-called "AMMA / An`R" music award from Australia. Yolanda Soares and her management now also have serious questions to answer to shareholders of Portuguese bank Montepio. |
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