BS: Glasgow earthquake!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM

Just an update on the lingering death of the Good ole UK.

Although a date has yet to be set for the Glenrothes By-election, bookmakers have the Scottish Nationalists as red hot favourites to overturn a 10,000 Labour majority.

Polls from the constituency are showing a massive swing to SNP a victory of 5000 is being quoted.
It is widely believed that if the UK Labour Party lose this seat, then Mr Brown will be forced to stand down as UK Prime Minister.

The result of this election should silence Teribus's jibe that Glasgow East was a "Mid term protest vote"

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 11:18 AM

with vvirtually the same equipment they could make the stuff without and 'e' in it. Flog it a few quid cheaper - pass on the savng of leaving out the 'e'.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 11:51 AM

someone sould point out this hole in the market to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 09:59 AM

the Irish dont make Whisky, only Whiskey.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 03:44 AM

I hereby register my protest at Scotland's base ingratitude to Gordon for not being a tory.

I will only drink Irish whisky from now on. And as for those bloody shortbead biscuits, you can stick 'em up your kilt!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 03:32 AM

Even if the Nationlists win (and I hope they do - anything to see Labour embarrassed) both seats will almost certainly return to Labour at a General Election. The history of by-elections is full of 'shock' results that mean nothing in the long term.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 08:53 PM

Another nail in the coffin of the United Kingdom looks likely.

The death of sitting Labour MP John McDougall in Glenrothes, means another by election is to be held there in November.

Labour is defending a 10,000 votes majority in Glenrothes, which is right next door to the seat held by prime minister Gordon Brown.
Regardless of the size of the Labour majority, the bookmakers make the Scottish Nationalists 1/4 to win the seat.
A victory for the Nationalists in Glenrothes would mean a voting swing of over 15%....so much for Teribus's "just a mid term protest vote".... in reference to the Glasgow East result.

I will update this thread regularly, to keep members posted on the "last days of the UK" ......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 05:28 PM

This was always going to be a difficult seat for the Nationalists to win, having to overcome a massive Labour majority with an electorate demoralised by decades of neglect from successive Unionist administrations(both Labour and Conservative), that more than half of them would not vote at all.
That the SNP achieved a victory in these circumstances is astonishing.

You still try to spin the result to look as if all the non-voters were anti-Independence, when it is much more likely that these non-voters have been alienated by the decades of Unionist neglect referred to above.

I don't normally put much faith in opinion polls as a guide to the policies or strengths of the respective political parties, but the polls I have linked to, require only simple yes/no/don'tknow answers and should prove to be reasonably accurate.

According to most commentators, the timescale for full Independence is now within 10 years...I would stick to my prediction of 5 given the momentum carried by Salmond and his Party and with the added impetous of the victory in Glasgow East.

A sample of current comment

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 02:25 PM

"I'm an Aston Villa fan - does that count?"

Oh...you poor, poor man. I...I hardly know what to say. Have you considered....euthanasia?

"If he did crush us then who would he have to direct his ire at?"

Good point! I've wondered about that myself. That's why I keep talking to him from time to time, in fact. I don't want him to feel abandoned. Any attention is better than none at all, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM

A bit more cut and paste for you LH : )

"Geez, I'm glad I don't really take all this stuff that seriously or I'd be under a real strain waiting to see how it turns out."

Nothing like the rough and tumble of a bit of robust debate! Good for the constitution.

"pitying assault on their many personal failures and character flaws"

I'm an Aston Villa fan - does that count?

"Let me know if Teribus ever succeeded in utterly crushing and destroying the egos of any of his various political opponents"

If he did crush us then who would he have to direct his ire at?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 10:24 AM

I'm getting confused with all the back and forth cut and paste. Is anyone "winning" yet? ;-) (laughing in my sleeve here...)

Geez, I'm glad I don't really take all this stuff that seriously or I'd be under a real strain waiting to see how it turns out.

Akenaton, do me a favour. Send me a PM when this contentious thread finally ends and let me know if Teribus ever succeeded in utterly crushing and destroying the egos of any of his various political opponents here with a simply devastating and of course pitying assault on their many personal failures and character flaws (achieved by his carefully searching through all the past posts they have ever made on this forum plus any PMs they ever sent him in order to find some supposedly vulnerable chink in their emotional armour). (Aha! Mr "T" chuckles gleefully and grins a wicked grin. "This will fix that socialist swine!") Let me know if anyone was driven to hang himself in the closet or seek counseling as a result of that, okay?

It will save me the lengthy time needed to monitor things here on a daily basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 09:29 AM

""You ask me to back the statement of capitalism failing to regulate itself" - No I most certainly did not Stigweard, as you well know."

Er, what's this then?

""Capitalism as a system of economics is failing due to inability to regulate itself." - Stigweard

Anything at all to back that statement up? Or as a marxist is this just you voicing a long and dearly held wish?"

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM

Correction****   Destroys the world!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 08:31 AM

First part of your post Stigweard - repetition of the expanation when "socialist" experiments go wrong - not "real "socialism" - "China is not an example of Marxism (or Communism as conceived by it's creators) in practice - it's an example of oppression and enslavement in practice." That oddly enough goes for every "communist government that ever set up shop to dupe the general population with its "socialist" myths.

"You ask me to back the statement of capitalism failing to regulate itself" - No I most certainly did not Stigweard, as you well know.

The question related to the sweeping statement of yours that "Capitalism" as a system is failing - Got news for you - Its not, it still remains to be the economic system that powers the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 08:01 AM

Ah yes, kippers (what a charming touch of "non-personal" invective from our friend there...). Here's a song I once wrote about kippers:

Kippers by Post

As I walked out in Whitby, on a fine summer's day
I thought of my true love, so far far away.
"I'll send her a present from the fair Yorkshire coast
a token of love to the one I love most.
Flowers they would wither, they'd fade like some ghost
Oh what shall I send to the one I love most?
         
So I walked up and down, up and down, up and down -
For Whitby, you know, is that kind of a town.
"Oh what shall I send to the one I love most?"
And the shoplady said, "Send her Kippers by Post".
(Chorus)Kippers by Post from the fair Yorkshire coast,
A token of love she can treasure and toast.
Flowers they would wither, they'd fade like some ghost,
But she'll always remember those Kippers by Post.

When she opened the parcel and saw what was there,
Well, first she turned pale, and then she turned queer.
And then she turned clever - she's smarter than most -
And she turned and tucked into those Kippers by Post.

Well, you ask me what happened. Now I wasn't quite sure,
For she looked very fierce when she opened the door.
Then she says "My fine fellow - go right back to your coast.
And send us some more of those Kippers by Post.

Well, we'll always remember, we'll never forget,
There's a trace of those kippers, it's still with us yet.
And if we're down in spirits, it's as good as a dose -
we send right away for those Kippers by Post.
Kippers by Post, from the fair Yorkshire coast,
A token of love you can treasure and toast.
Flowers they would wither, they'd fade like some ghost,
But we'll always remember those Kippers by Post.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 07:39 AM

"Stigweard, as a self confessed "marxist", what is your view on China's recent acceptance and adoption of "capitalism"?"

Good question.

For one thing, China pays lip service to Marx and Engels as the founding fathers of Communism but practice something entirely different. China has long been a brutal dictatorship ruled by a privileged elite, which as you say has been long opposed to democracy. China is not an example of Marxism (or Communism as conceived by it's creators) in practice - it's an example of oppression and enslavement in practice. I think Marx would be horrified to see the working citizens of China being treated as they have been over the years, and as they continue to be.

The adoption of capitalism in recent years has led ordinary Chinese to believe they are experiencing freedom, when they are in fact experiencing consumerism; they are still subject to censorship and other tools of state oppression and have no say in the running of their country. Combined with this oppressive police state, capitalism shows it's true colours; as in the rest of China workers on the new Olympic stadium have no rights at all, no health and safety etc. In some senses, it the capitalist system in it's rawest form and isn't pretty to look at, as it freely pollutes the local environment and displaces those who live where these factories are built. Profit over people.

Those working to death in the laogais and state factories with no protection or workers rights are the living proof that without regulation capitalism serves no-one but the board and shareholders - this is as far away from what Marx and Engels envisaged as it's possible to get.

China is a nightmare waiting to happen. As you say, not signed up to Kyoto, significant human rights issues across the board, bringing it's exclusive brand of

"So "capitalism" is the source of "global warming" and climate change is it Stigweard"

Whether it's the source or not is irrelevant; it's the fact unregulated capitalist economies can't provide the solutions because they only respond to market forces, and market forces are not interested in what's good for individuals and society as a whole. There is no collective responsibility.

I'm not against capitalism per se, but I believe it needs to be regulated, and I would start by returning the machinery of state to the people, reclaim the infrastructure and essential services from the private sector and review how we operate these systems.

You ask me to back the statement of capitalism failing to regulate itself - where do you want to start? Well, let's take healthcare. I've worked in med comms for years (full of state-trained doctors who have abandoned clinical practice), and my wife worked in the NHS for 14 years before she had enough. The slow privatisation of healthcare in this country has left many people (including myself) utterly unable to afford to be treated adequately for a massive range of problems. Clinical heads of department have given way to a new breed of staff whose main aim is not benefit of the patient or the quality of service offered to them, but the financial implications of the decisions for the Trust. Meeting targets is now the priority.

Even in the private sector this application of capitialist principles to patient care is having an effect; a friend told me this morning in the private hospital where she works the main source of income (and focus for the company running it) is stomach stapling operations for obese people who can't be arsed to diet - because they'll pay.

Regulation is the key.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:40 AM

"The other trouble is that you for some reason see and think of "Capitalism" as a political system - It's not . . ." (Teribus)

"Well, not in the traditional sense it isn't, but unregulated capitalism has become synonymous with 'democracy' in modern political parlance....." - Stigweard

No Stigweard, not in "modern political parlance", it has in the "modern political parlance of the extreme left". But I am pleased to see that you recognise, as your fellow traveller Akenaton does not, that "capitalism" is not a political system.

Stigweard, as a self confessed "marxist", what is your view on China's recent acceptance and adoption of "capitalism"? And believe me Stigweard, there is absolutely no way on earth that I would ever describe "The People's Republic of China" as being "democratic".

"Capitalism as a system of economics is failing due to inability to regulate itself." - Stigweard

Anything at all to back that statement up? Or as a marxist is this just you voicing a long and dearly held wish?

So "capitalism" is the source of "global warming" and climate change is it Stigweard. Funny that seeing as China is the greatest polluter on earth and a non-signatory of the Kyoto Agreement.

If "capitalism" is the source it will also provide the solutions. One thing is certain "marxism" will not, the "Party Elite" will be too busy suppresing the masses to notice the increase in temperature.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM

"The vote in Glasgow East which you cite was not on whether or not Scotland should be Independent."

Very true, equally true is that it was an opportunity for the electorate of Glasgow East to vote for the political party that espouses Scottish independence. It was an opportunity for the electorate of Glasgow East to demonstrate their support for Scottish independence. The support demonstrated and translated into votes on the day amounted to 18.2% of the electorate - Roughly 1 in 5.

"You have also skewed the figures(your figures) You assume that the fifty-eight percent who did not vote would all have been anti-independence."

Not at all, the voting returns for the Glasgow East constituency shows that when given the opportunity to vote for the SNP, the electorate of that Constituency chose as follows:

- 57.75% of them couldn't be bothered to vote at all, i.e. not interested in the political process at all, not even in the interests of Scottish independence. Nothing assumed about that at all Akenaton.

- 24.05% of them voted for political parties other than the SNP.

- 18.2% voted for the SNP.

Voice of the people eh?? Earthquake LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 05:54 AM

"The other trouble is that you for some reason see and think of "Capitalism" as a political system - It's not . . ."

Well, not in the traditional sense it isn't, but unregulated capitalism has become synonymous with 'democracy' in modern political parlance and any challenge or attempt to curb the excesses of capitalism is greeted as some sort of affront to people's freedoms.

Capitalism as a system of economics is failing due to inability to regulate itself. The continuing slide towards the tipping point when climate change becomes irreversible (100 months!) will continue because capitalism isn't interested in the common interest, but simply satisfying shareholders, and that means short-term profits over long-term welfare.

Of course, it's the poorest people who suffer first and foremost, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 05:01 AM

The vote in Glasgow East which you cite was not on whether or not Scotland should be Independent.
You have also skewed the figures(your figures)
You assume that the fifty-eight percent who did not vote would all have been anti-independence.

All the polls are now saying that the numbers in favour of Independence are rising steadily.The poll I linked to from the Guardian(I think) is about the lowest with 34% in favour, 16% unsure.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 04:25 AM

Ah Opinion Polls now count and actually prove something do they?

I'll believe it when I see it Akenaton, hard evidence of actual voting returns still puts it at 20% for 80% against.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

At the other end of the spectrum. Different wording.

HERE
48% against.....36% for...16% unsure.

BUT... This was before the massive swing in Glasgow East.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:16 AM

A LITTLE INFORMATION FOR THE UN-INFORMED!

20% my arse!


41% AND COUNTING TERIBUS! 19% UNDECIDED.


Time to pack your pyjamas, get your running shoes on and high tail it for the border...:0) If you are indeed from the Hawick area, you might just make it before the declaration....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:32 PM

Very good answer Kevin.

While your on about food here's another from the same website:

TRIPE

Peel and chop the onion and cook in the water until tender. Cut up the tripe and add to the onion. Simmer it very gently for about 10 mins and then strain. Finely dice or mince the tripe and onion. Melt the butter in a pan, add the flour and cook for a few seconds. Pour on the tripe liquor, stirring all the time and boil for a few minutes. Season to taste, add the tripe and onion, pour in the milk and bring slowly to the boil. Serves two.


Your recipe
Tripe soup
1/4 lb pre-cooked tripe
1/2 oz butter
1/2 oz flour
Seasoning
1 Onion
Half pint milk
Half pint water

Another one that might be applicable Kevin - Kippers - Normal appearance yellow, two-faced and gutless.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:08 PM

I'm not 'pulling you up'. I just don't think you will persuade anyone by calling them an arsehole - in so many words. I don't think its much good as a response or a debating tactic.

And in fact I have voiced my disquiet about some of the stuff that gets bandied about in these discussions. Usually in PM's admittedly. I don't want to go into specific instances - but yes, I have asked people not to continue certain humdingers. Once or twice, people have said to me - this is getting a bit scary and pulled out of these debates.

Carry on if it makes you happy. But I don't see how it can. If it seems to you the way to go - so be it!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:09 PM

Recipe for haggis from this BBC page:

Preparation time overnight. Cooking time over 2 hours. Serves 4-6

Ingredients
1 sheep's stomach or ox caecum, cleaned and thoroughly, scalded, turned inside out and soaked overnight in cold salted water
heart and lungs of one lamb
450g/1lb beef or lamb trimmings, fat and lean
2 onions, finely chopped
225g/8oz oatmeal
1 tbsp salt
1 tsp ground black pepper
1 tsp ground dried coriander
1 tsp mace
1 tsp nutmeg
water, enough to cook the haggis
stock from lungs and trimmings

Method
1. Wash the lungs, heart and liver (if using). Place in large pan of cold water with the meat trimmings and bring to the boil. Cook for about 2 hours.
2. When cooked, strain off the stock and set the stock aside.
3. Mince the lungs, heart and trimmings.
4. Put the minced mixture in a bowl and add the finely chopped onions, oatmeal and seasoning. Mix well and add enough stock to moisten the mixture. It should have a soft crumbly consistency.
5. Spoon the mixture into the sheep's stomach, so it's just over half full. Sew up the stomach with strong thread and prick a couple of times so it doesn't explode while cooking.
6. Put the haggis in a pan of boiling water (enough to cover it) and cook for 3 hours without a lid. Keep adding more water to keep it covered.
7. To serve, cut open the haggis and spoon out the filling. Serve with neeps (mashed swede or turnip) and tatties (mashed potatoes).

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 06:39 PM

Typical MGOH:

"Far easier to deflect the question and mither on about things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't."

Gets fired back at me as:

"things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't." Such as an invented and false assertion about "10 years"..."

I do believe I acknowledged that as being an error on my part Kevin - Or did you miss that, was that fact inconvenient to whatever point it was that you wished to make?

Now Kevin give me a quote as to when I said "Tough Shit" to the problems of the poor people of Glasgow as I was accused of saying??

Give me a quote as to when I said "their problem" to the problems of the poor people of Glasgow as I was accused of saying??

Give me a quote as to when I described the poor people of Glasgow as apathetic "couldnae-gie-a-fuck-wasters" as I was accused of saying??

Socialistically selective as ever Kevin - Proves my point magnificently.

"You have been a man once already today Teribus, make it a double by admitting that the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs."

And you Akenaton, along with some others mentioned here previously have proved that they are not. Admit that "the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs", of course they are, they've been running the United Kingdom's for long enough - Only problem is Akenaton 80% of the "Scots" as you define them have indicated fairly clearly that they don't want to.

The other trouble is that you for some reason see and think of "Capitalism" as a political system - It's not - that was also the same misconception that the Communists had of it. Capitalism is a system of economics that is in itself extremely flexible and capable of adaptation to suit whatever political climate - Ask the Chinese Akenaton, or at least those allowed the privelege of being "Party Members" that is, they are doing rather well out of it at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:53 PM

"they will look the other way and deny and ignore every fault brought to light within whatever system it is that they support"

That seems an excellent description of your own ideology T.
I have never heard you admit one fault in the Capitalist system.
Will you defend your insulting remarks to me, or are they just a jumble of meaningless abuse?

What you fail to understand is that the Glasgow East contest was not a general election, it was a by-election, which traditionally receive a much lower voter turn out than a general election.
the last GE in Glasgow East polled approx 45%, while the BE polled approx 42%. An excellent turnout for a seat like Glasgow East in a By-election. Without the new impetous of the Nationalists, the turnout would have been of the order of 25%.
I repeat, to overturn a majority of 13000, in such a solid Labour seat, in such a short time, is a good gauge of the current performance of the Nats.

However even if the Nats had not been carrying all before them, the certain victory of Cameron in Westminster allied to the ineffectivness of the Scottish Labour Party will mean the Nationalists taking full power in Scotland by default.

You have been a man once already today Teribus, make it a double by admitting that the Scots are fit and ready to run their own affairs.

McGrath is correct As long as the Nationalists are in power they will keep asking the question. I expect a Yes for independence on the first ballot but if that is not achieved, the question will be asked again and again, until either the Nats are removed from office or get the answer they require.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:23 PM

Labour MPs may or may not be dinosaurs - but the one thing you can guarantee they are is "unionists".   The Labour Party is committed to preserving the Union, as is the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party.
...............

"things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't." Such as an invented and false assertion about "10 years"...

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:23 PM

I've never actually owned one either, Teribus. It's my aged mother who owns the dachshund(s). I speak of them as "my" dogs on this forum just to simplify the discussion some. She has owned a whole series of them over the past 5 decades. They're hilarious creatures. ;-) Most of the ones she has had weren't snappy at all, but I recall one that was a bit that way. He has shuffled on to the great beyond.

I don't think socialists are as bad as what you say. Not when you get to actually know them as other human beings rather than political foes. There probably is the odd socialist who is a real bastard, mind you, but that's true with the odd dachshund too. It doesn't apply across the board.

You shouldn't be so judgemental of whole categories of people and animals, just on the basis of some superficial disagreements you have had over something. It generates more ill will than it deserves. Look on the humorous side for once, man. We will all be dead and in our graves shortly and other vainglorious people very similar to you and I will be bitching and blathering endlessly about all this political hoo-ha and the world will keep turning just fine without any of us. I see little need to get so utterly bloody serious about this stuff all the time.

Sure, you've got your opinions. I've got mine. Akenation has his.

So what???? What's the big deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:07 PM

That's right Little Hawk something like a Yorkshire Terrier or possibly a snappy little dog like a Dachshund. Now I have never owned either but you on the other hand, Little Hawk??

For WLD - "Yes I have seen personal attacks on you Teribus, and I have thought they were designed to be hurtful."

But never felt moved to go into print to pull anybody up on them eh Al? But you felt compelled to pull me up on something that never was - the supposed "personal attack" on Guest Shimrod. Now that is interesting Big Al, says volumes about you.

Another member on this forum, alanabit once asked me why it is I dislike "socialists" in general. I'll tell you why Big Al, because generally they are liars, they are dissemblers, they will tell whatever lie, they will look the other way and deny and ignore every fault brought to light within whatever system it is that they support and happens to be flavour of the month. When it fails as it inevitably does, it is dismissed as having not been truly "socialist" and the next band wagon is leapt upon and the cycle is repeated, and the poor fools who believed the lies they had been told sit back and swallow it all hook-line-and-sinker yet again.

Such systems promise much and deliver little - ask the constituents of Glasgow East - Ask Akenaton when was Glasgow East last represented by a Unionist MP? - Ask Akenaton when Glasgow or Strathclyde was last controlled by a Conservative or Unionist Council? - So you tell me who it was that let the people of Glasgow East down, it wasn't the "Unionists" it was a crowd of Labour dinosaurs who promised everybody a return to the "good old days" in traditional industries that were dead, priced out of the market by trade Union bickering and demarcation disputes.

In his "Glasgow earthquake" thread Akenaton has been repeatedly asked a very simple question by me and has so far refused to answer it. Very difficult to convince anyone that the political scene in a country is going to change overnight, or that the ground is going to change under one's feet when the political party being talked about only has the support of 20% of the electorate. Far easier to deflect the question and mither on about things that Teribus is supposed to have said but in actual fact hasn't.

If "socialism" is represented by the likes of those who have posted to this thread, Little Hawk, Akenaton, Richard Bridge, MGOH, Stigweard and yourself WLD, then God help it. Not an indication of any real back-bone, honesty or integrity to be found in any of you, the lot of you are more to be pitied than censured.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 03:32 PM

"an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes him a living."

Well Teribus I suppose we are all clowns...biting and snapping at one another, while in reality knowing almost nothing about those we berate.
In what way do you find me bigotted Teribus? I am not racist or sectarian or any other type of bigot that I can think of.
I certainly would not call you a bigot Teribus, although we disagree stronly about most things.
You say that I believe the world owes me a living.
How so?...I work as hard as a man half my age, can't remember my last holiday, claim no benefits or rebates...and pay my taxes.

"Overly politically motivated" Hah thats a laugh coming from someone who has so vociferously defended Capitalism and its stinking wars.
In fact,you seem to have quite a good grasp of Capitalist politics

Pity your grasp of what is actually happening in your native country is so poor.....Get out and smell the coffee T, the ground is shifting beneath your feet, the sky is falling,as you sleepwalk to another Tory victory. Don't you know that a Tory victory in 2 yrs will be political suicide for your invincible United Kingdom?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:35 PM

Oh, I see.

And the dog is a little yappy dog like a Yorkshire Terrier, I presume? Dressed in a little knitted sweater and cap? And the bewhiskered old gent is pushing the little beastie about in a pram so it won't get its little footsies wet? And he's yelling petulantly at passersby who he thinks are getting in the way of his "precious"?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Stu
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:49 PM

mmmm . . . pasties.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:46 PM

"eating a pasty"? What the hell is a pasty? I thought they were those little things they used to stick on strippers' nipples in the old days, only I think those were spelled "pasties", weren't they?

Nevertheless, the sentence "Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram" does manage to convey what it is intended to, and in a pretty amusing way I must say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:34 PM

Yes I have seen personal attacks on you Teribus, and I have thought they were designed to be hurtful.

But its your response that worries me.

lets face we're all 'of an age'.

You ain't going to persuade me to vote tory, and I doubt very much whether I will convince you that Gordon Brown is the best of a bad lot.

The best any of us is going to do is wrench from the other one a concession - maybe you've got a point.....

Every bit of abuse is a step with ten league boots away from the likelihood of that. All this apopleptic rage is doing you no good and its very unpersuasive.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM

"" ... and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges."

Hhhhmmm - stretching a point a bit there, Tezza, old mate. Your scorn felt like a personal attack - which is why I abandoned my usual decorum and opted for the savage groin kick ..." - Guest Shimrod (05 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM)

Really?? Tell me you did post the following on 01 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM didn't you, or was it someone else using your Guest Name?

"Yes, my initial post was intemperate, McGrath - thanks for pointing that out. Although I strongly believe that it is entirely appropriate to display such intemperance when discussing 'modern' business practices. I do not regret posting that message and I stand by every word.

Nevertheless, the subsequent post from Teribus was (predictably) scornful and I reacted against that scorn by flinging personal abuse."

Not much of a stretch at all I would say Guest Shimrod "I reacted against that scorn", why no mention of personal attack in that post where you are clearly addressing MGOH's point.

Of course, I am looking for a bit of honesty and a bit of integrity, looking in the wrong place though eh Guest Shimrod - "Solidarity Brothers" the truth can look after itself. What was it you so disliked about "modern management methods and practices" again Shimrod? Certainly rubbed off on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM

Well Al, it all depends upon who, and what, you are responding to doesn't it.

To Guest Shimrod - I responded by giving my opinion of what he stated in his post, and I did that without resorting to any "personal attack". The only person so far to view it as such has been MGOH (Akenaton viewed it as being "verbal abuse" and Guest Shimrod himself viewed it as being "scorn")

Now Al, How would you respond to someone who tells you, "f**k you!!" or tells you that you are "an a**ehole"? Does that rank as being a "personal attack"? Guest Shimrod seems to think so, but somehow MGOH, and the rest of the "gang", including yourself Al, somehow think that it does not.

Have I told anybody on this forum where, or not, they could live? Have I ever told anyone on this forum where they would be welcome or not? What would be your response to that Al?

What about someone who deliberately "misquotes" what you have said, places those "misquoted" words or phrases completely out of context and applies them to a subject that you, yourself have not even mentioned, then berates you for making them. Tell me Al, how would you respond to that?

I liked your description; "Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram." - Although it sits better when applied to Akenaton, than it does to me. I'll stick with my opinion of Akenaton formed over the years we have posted to this forum:

"an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes him a living."

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

" ... and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges."

Hhhhmmm - stretching a point a bit there, Tezza, old mate. Your scorn felt like a personal attack - which is why I abandoned my usual decorum and opted for the savage groin kick ...

Still, something good has come out of this undignified scuffle - at least we now know how to wind up a Tory 'right-steamer'!

Nevertheless, I'm a bit bored with this now.

Best of luck to the Scots, by the way - let's hope that they make the right choices.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

Ake - Teribus is not bullying you. He's going off on one. Like those old men you see eating a pasty and shouting with a dog in a pram.

I wish you wouldn't provoke him. Its not nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM

The SNP's core aspiration can equally be stated as being to bring the Scottish people to demand independence. Losing a referendum wouldn't mean that needed to change.   Any mandate to rule would be based on winning an election, an entirely different matter.

As for teh other matter "I suppose it's all down to how we interpret the term "personal attack". There's Glory for you...

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:05 AM

Yes but it is the most effective or the most seemly response for a man of mature years, Teribus old pal?

Just read through the passage I highlighted again. see what I mean....?

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:55 AM

Al, I think you will find out on examination that in almost all cases I am responding to something someone else has said. As to saying some "nasty stuff", not half as nasty as has been directed my way, and for the record to date on this thread I have not made any personal attack on Guest Shimrod - A fact that he acknowledges.

Would I say such "face-to-face" if these discussions were held person - Most definitely, on the proviso that everyone else would hold to saying the same things, in exactly the same manner as they posted, which somehow I would doubt very much.

"I would try to explain my reference to his remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow, but too much time has been taken up here on personal details" - Akenaton

That would be some explanation Akenaton as you struggle to keep alive the myth that I ever made any remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow. I did make reference to the electorate of the Glasgow East constituency, 57.75% of them who couldn't be bother to vote. But at no time at all did I ever make any reference in the terms suggested by you to the poor of Glasgow. Now I believe that I have shown that I can own up to making a mistake - lets see if you are man enough to do the same. Do not ever put words into my mouth, or attribute to me views and opinions that I have patently not given - Do not state as fact things which only exist as your assumptions and opinions.

Onward to Independence!! - I very much doubt it, as I very much doubt that Salmond will call his referendum in 2010. The SNP must actually dread it, because irrespective of the results of the next Scottish Assembly elections, a referendum on Independence will decide if the SNP can continue to exist as a political party because that referendum will be a vote of support for that political party's core belief and aim - A fully independent Scotland. If the people of Scotland say NO, as I think they will, then the SNP have absolutely no mandate to Govern Scotland.

The result of the Glasgow East By-Election was and remains a typical example of a mid-term protest vote, in which the majority of the electorate refused to vote, and as such it signifies absolutely nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:11 AM

Thanks Al.....But I'm not surprised, thats the way bullies behave.
Teribus's use of language on this forum over the last few years has shown him to be a bully.
This behaviour usually surfaces when T finds himself "on a slippery slope"....as in this thread.

This thread might seem inconsequential to some, but to Teribus, the issues raised are very important indeed..He sees his ideology and precious way of life crumbling around him.
With the probable disintegration of the UK, Teribus faces coming to terms with living in a country which may start to bring some real socialist measures.
There is no guarantee that this WILL happen, but the very thought is enough to frighten the shit out of him.

It must also be extremely demoralising to have supported an Empire for so long, yet now see it crumble to dust.

We have lost so many young men over the years, to give meaning to an Empire which has now been shown to be a rickety facade.

My main reason for supporting Scottish Nationalism is not as Teribus says,... "political", but rather that Independence will mean that our sons and daughters will no longer serve and die in the interests of our leaders, or in the interests of a system which treats them with the utmost contempt.

Regardless of his language, I thank Teribus for his apology and accept that he may have made a genuine mistake.

I would try to explain my reference to his remarks concerning the poor of Glasgow, but too much time has been taken up here on personal details

Onward to Independence!!.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 03:28 AM

'you are an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes you a living. dissembling is remarkably easy for you in order to explain the failings of the guiding lights that you follow. I note that you only own up to one of the slanders perpetrated, you conveniently omit to confessing that the comments "tough shit" and "YOUR problem" (which you altered to "their problem") related to your feelings of being "subservient", it had nothing whatever to do with "Scotlands" drug problem or people in general.'


you say some nasty stuff Teribus. Would you say it to someones face? I admit in some cases you are responding to people. But at what age do you intend to learn a little restraint, diplomacy and civilised behaviour to your fellow men?

best wishes, but shaking my head in disbelief that you could write such things to Ake

al

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:55 AM

Kevin, the sentence you keep refering to is in no way, shape or form a "personal attack" - even Guest Shimrod acknowledges that - he describes it as scorn in responding to that particular post. The sentence you quote is an opinion on what someone has written, identifying no-one. Please explain Kevin how that could be construed as a "personal attack"? This by the way Kevin is an example of a personal attack - You Kevin, are an obtuse, hypocritical prat.

Transposition of posts? I believe I have only ever referred to one of Guest Shimrod's posts, which Guest Shimrod admits did contain a "personal attack" directed at me.

My apologies on the 10 years Kevin was correct in stating that the referendum will be not be held before 2010, putting it within Akenaton's 5 year time frame.

"I can only assume that you were trying to say that Shimrod started the abuse." - Akenaton

Keep up Akenaton the charge was not of "starting the abuse" but of mounting a "personal attack", and as stated above Guest Shimrod admitted that in responding to my post he did make a "personal attack" on me.

Yes indeed you did slander me, as to how you could possibly do that? Easily explained you are an overly politically motivated, bigotted clown who believes that the world owes you a living. dissembling is remarkably easy for you in order to explain the failings of the guiding lights that you follow. I note that you only own up to one of the slanders perpetrated, you conveniently omit to confessing that the comments "tough shit" and "YOUR problem" (which you altered to "their problem") related to your feelings of being "subservient", it had nothing whatever to do with "Scotlands" drug problem or people in general.

By the bye some facts that are not "shite" - The election results from the Glasgow East By-Election 18.2% of the electorate voted for SNP - that is roughly 1 in 5. The election results from the last Scottish Election - Roughly 1 in 5 voted of the electorate voted for the SNP. By all means bring on your referendum, my guest is that 4 in 5 will say NO. It doesn't take much of a crystal ball to see that Nu-Labour will be trounced at the next UK General Election, Gordon of cartoon has been an unmitigated disaster, as has been is time as Chancellor.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 08:09 PM

Oh yes ...Drug addiction, as a footnote you say
"Can you tell me why drug addiction in Scotland has not been addressed by the Scottish National Health Service which has been completely separate since its foundation as part of the Bevin reforms pushed through after the end of the Second World War? Funded by Westminster admittedly but administered by the regional Scottish Health Authorities"

"Funded by Westminster admittedly"....Shouldn't that read Grossly underfunded by Westminster, Teribus??
I know rather a lot about drug addiction in Scotland, and I know that past UK governments have shamefully underfunded the Re-habilitation programmes.
It will require mamy hundreds of millions to make any impression on drug addiction, but as in many other fields ....we have absolutely no other option.

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:14 PM

Teribus...would you please address your lie about the "10yr referendum"

"As for Akenaton's predictions, off hand I can't think of one that he's got right. Should have consulted Salmond about Scotland being independent within 5 years. It will come as news to him he isn't prepared to put it before the country by way of a referendum for another 10 years."

Would you please explain why you attempted to transpose the two posts by Shimrod?
I can only assume that you were trying to say that Shimrod started the abuse. This is patently untrue. To say someone is posting "self pitying drivel",then to follow up with "I'd rather someone shot me than allowed me to post such crap" is verbal abuse.
BTW you better send for the whole bloody firing squad...the amount of crap you post!
Oh!! silly me I have indeed slandered you.
I ascribed "apathetic couldnae gie a fuck wasters" to you, when what you really said was "apathetic couldnae gie a fuck arses" in reference to the electorate of Glasgow East.

How the hell could I have made such a mistake??

You are a pedant Teribus, you've no style, and your facts are shite....10yrs?? do you know anything about Scottish politics or have you been off on your travels just too long?

I repeat you are toast Teribus, the Nats will wipe out Labour in the next election. Cameron will win the next UK election easily (another prediction of mine, before blair left office) and there you have the ingredients for full Scottish Independence.

If you disagree with that prediction ..GET YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE!!

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:05 PM

"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,
As he landed his crew with care;
Supporting each man on the top of the tide
By a finger entwined in his hair.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."

So here is three times: "I have never heard such self-pitying drivel in my entire life, I would rather hope somebody shot me before I came out with such crap."

Subject: RE: BS: Glasgow earthquake!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 05:59 PM

Great. Well, it's in Sudbury. "The Big Nickel". It's a famous local landmark. It doesn't do anything, it just stands there, but the locals are quite proud of it.