Saddleworth Rushcart 2008

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:00 AM

Glad you enjoyed it JP2! Yes it was good to see Alan out playing and Bacup dancing too, they're great supporters of the Rushcart. As for Monkseaton, we shall do our best to enjoy ourselves but you're not getting away with it so lightly. Some of Saddleworth will be with you at Bromyard in civvies to keep you company!

Cheers
Eddie

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 04:18 AM

While we're in appreciation mode can I say how absolutely bloody marvellous it was to see Alan,Bacup's concertina player,playing out at the age of 94.
He sits down to play these days but I'm 33 years younger than him and I wouldn't mind a chair some days!
Brilliant weekend again Saddleworth!
Well done and have a good time at Monkseaton.Mutter.Mutter.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

I'd like to add Saddleworth MM's best wishes to John Drake also, he has been a supporter of the RUshcart for many years and it was great to see him up here again. Best Wishes John and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

Eddie

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:26 AM

Did anyone film the tight-rope walking? I had my back turned being up in front playing.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Phil Taylor
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:30 AM

A pleasure to see John Drake again of the Wadard morris men(usually seen in his tartan outfit) Apparently, he had a heart attack but managed to attend the festival again this year having to limit his appearances. I think best wishes are in order and the very best of health to John from now on.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 04:00 AM

Too right Chippinder, although after rushcutting in the rain for the last couple of weeks, I'm not too sure.....! However, the 'Cart will be built over this coming weekend in the Commercial pub yard in Uppermill, if anyone is in the area drop in for a look and see how it's done.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Chippinder
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 03:41 AM

Only a week to go. Hoping for good weather lads!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:19 AM

Sadly Helier MM can't be with us this year due to last minute issues at their end, hopefully they will return next year! However, I'm pleased to say that Jockey MM are now able to attend as a team this year.

On the subject of Wrigley Head, they are Rushcart regulars and have been at the 'Cart as long as I know. The Sunday Wall of Sound is the regular finish to the dancing outside the Church! As an aside, the founder of Wrigley Head, Martin Bluer, is still a dancer with Saddleworth MM and was the Jockey at 1997's 'Cart.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:54 PM

Bill S from Perth

I presume that's Perth down under and not in bonnie Scotland (and that the S stands for Singleton).
Good to hear from you - are you still dancing - wasn't it Herga you were with before Adlington?

slainté

Don (now in the Outer Hebrides)

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:57 PM

During my Gorton time quite a few Gorton blokes had wives / girl friends (early WAGs I guess) in womens sides so general friendship and shared gigs was a natural consequence. To be fair Saddleworth have had mixed clog dancing competitions!

L in C

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:57 AM

I was at the 1976 cart dancing with Gorton (I was also dancing with Adlington at that time) so congrags on keeping it going. Sadly though, despite being a prolific photographer, I don't have any photos, can't remember why not.
The first Gorton Ale about that time involved Adlington and the Jemmers. We chartered a Mayne's double decker and drank our way to Ashton, so Gorton supported female sides from the start even pre-Rushcart (and pre Les) and we were always glad to welcome Fidlers Fancy when they started. I later danced with Bollin who I presume have not been to Saddleworth.
Wassail
Bill

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:45 AM

"Wrigley Head on Sunday - yor having a larf!"

just as I remember it!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Connie
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:22 AM

Wrigley Head are frequently at Rushcart on the Sunday for the famous wall of sound.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Alexis
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 04:56 PM

"There was only Saddleworth, Adlington, Gorton (plus Wrigley Head on Sunday)that year and there was a much longer pull on the Sunday"

Wrigley Head on Sunday - yor having a larf!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 11:10 AM

Oh dear!Oh dear!
That last offering should have gone to the "Morris /Ceilidh band thread.
Must get my eyes tested.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 11:07 AM

Peeping Tom certainly were the "Earlsdon" band.
They used to play at the monthly Earlsdon Ceilidhs in Coventry.
The early lineups included John Mcintosh,current bass player in PT and ex-Squire of EMM,Ben Woodward,now box player but one time guitarist in PT and ex musician in EMM.
Terry "Fatman" Fairless,ex fiddler in PT and ex choreographer,dancer,songwriter and musician in EMM.
Colin Burrows,piano accordionist in PT and EMM.
Colin Halliwell,drummer in PT and EMM.
Graham Brown drummer in PT and EMM.
Max Smith of Longwood Thump fame was an EMM dancer and roadie for PT.
And I once booked PT for £36-00! Ah happy days!
PS Does anyone remember camping IN the old Council compound on the playing fields before we started using the main field?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 10:14 AM

Thanks for the info again Ken, contact me via pm if you need any more info about the 'Cart for this year.

We've had some great bands at the Rushcart Ceilidhs over the years, although we've not run one for a while now as interest dropped off among the people attending for the weekend. As an aside to the thread about best Morris Ceilidh band, some of theses must have played the Rushcart over the years?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,squeezeboxkc
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 05:13 PM

thanks Ed
i have passed the invite on to KRD
guessing at the year it must be early 80s
i think our band Hot Punch did the ceilidh in the civic

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:11 AM

The clog stepping was indeed an open competition. I think Saddleworth have always had a rather chauvinistic image but they were never quite as bad as some people liked to paint them.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Ed Worrall
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:04 AM

Hi Ken - I didn't know Kirkburton had ever been to the 'Cart, must be time for you to come back? You and Bradshaw will both be getting invites for 2009! If you fancy coming to 2008 let me know, always plenty of room...

The step clog competition was I think always an 'open' event in that it was open to anyone male or female to enter whether or not they were connected to a Morris side. The same goes for the Gurning and Worst Singer competitions!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM

Was the step clog competition mixed?

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,squeezeboxkc
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 12:59 PM

i think Kirkburton Rapier Dancers were at one of the first Saddleworth Rushcarts and we are still all male,still dancing and we are traditional not more than 10 miles from you but the same goes for The Bradshaw Mummers also all male even when some of us have a penchant for dressing up as females, does this count as mixed or not LOL

Ken

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 07:12 AM

1980 was the Shawcross cart...memory plays tricks but I don't think the Dobcross was danced out until '81.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Cats
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 06:55 AM

I could go runmmaging around when I get back from Bideford if that's any use. Pm we with an address and I'll see what I can do in the way of copying them for you.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 04:09 AM

Hi Cats, glad you enjoyed it! We no longer have the step clog competition, it died out some years back due to lack of interest unfortunately. If you should come across the 'photos whilst in the attic, we'd be very interested in getting copies, hope you can help.

Cheers
Eddie

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Cats
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM

I camr to Saddleworth with 'friends' who were in Preston Royal at the time. I put friends in brackets as I had only met them that week when I was in Preston for a summer school and they persauded me to go to Saddleworth with them for the weekend. That was in 1983.   Hanging on my wall I have a signed pen and ink drawing of the Rushcart and the cloth on the front of it says 1982 which was the previous years Rushcart. I had the most amazing time and even took part in the step dancing competition with borrowed clogs! In the attic I have loads of photographs.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 11:46 AM

then why, when we try to leave him in Saddleworth, does he always find his way back home. I think Wadard have suffered enough and it's someone else's turn to put up with him!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 11:02 AM

Thanks for coming back on that Don, 15 years of coming up from Kent deserves some kind of medal! Mind you John Drake has always said it's because the beer's cheaper...

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 10:54 AM

Ed

Just heard from Bob that Wadard's first year was '93 although he thinks a couple of odds & sods attended in '91 & '92

slainté

Don

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:49 AM

JP2 - Rest assured Kennet are here again this year, they are one of our most regular attenders as you say, the Waggon will be getting the usual treatment on the Friday night! For those feeling brave there is always the worst singer competition on Sunday afternoon, be warned the rivalry is fierce!

Harry - We've all done it at some point! What dances were being done back then, had the Dobcross been put together?

Cheers
Ed

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 07:10 AM

Hi Ed...

      I can imagine the problems with a 24 man Uppermill...in 1980 Pete changed the finish to feet together instead of a right kick...guess who forgot?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 07:04 AM

I've just looked at the list again and noticed that Kennet MM aren't on it.
I thought they had become a fixture.
I shall miss Clive's inimitable singing in the Wagon.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:08 AM

Ed

I'm with the Hebridean branch of Wadard having left Kent in 1990.

I had not danced at Rushcart with them until last year so I guess their first visit must have been early/mid '90s.

slainté

Don

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:35 PM

Well JP2, a fair question. Like most old gits I know the answer to everything in general and nothing in particular.

I am in no position to doubt the people that Saddleworth have invited. I bet they have seen lots of women's sides who would bring much delight to their cart and a fair bit of muscle too.

Yes I know that's a cop out. I remember Poynton and Fiddlers being brilliant at Gorton!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:57 AM

Hi Don, sorry about the spelling, I never realised Wadard had an original Rushcarter in their midst! I was down your way for the ARM this year, great hosts as always.

Glad you enjoyed it last year, hopefully this year should be as good. That must be the reason the tug of war was ditched, the shame of it... I've heard it was a real struggle to move it with such small numbers, thankfully we've usually had a few more bodies since to share the load. When was the first time Wadard came up for the 'Cart??

Cheers
Ed

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: doncatterall
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:39 AM

Hope the line has now been drawn under the mens'/womens' morris discussion - at least on this thread.

I danced with Adlington at the first Rushcart (revival) and I recall that we ended up at Diggle fete on the Sunday where we beat Saddleworth in the tug of war!!!

There was only Saddleworth, Adlington, Gorton (plus Wrigley Head on Sunday)that year and there was a much longer pull on the Sunday.

Was back there last year with Wadard (note the spelling Ed) after a lapse of some 20 years and had a terrific time especially meeting old friends like Martin Stimson(hope to see Bobbie there this year).

Don

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

So,Les,which sides would you invite to Rushcart and why?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:48 AM

Hi Les - No argument with what you say, fertility rites etc. is much more to do with Victorian Folklorist's world view than anything else. Women in Morris history are clearly documented.

Male dance teams undeniably exist as a thread in Morris too though and are no less valid. It's a matter of personal choice as to which thread you choose to follow. As Connie says there's many opinions out there!

Anway, taking a step back from the philiosphy of it all, it's good to hear it's well received out there, feedback is not something you get much of when you organise an event like this, perhaps another thread beckons after the Bank Holiday...

Cheers
Ed

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:46 AM

I know this is difficult subject especially for most men's sides.

I don't think it's about who is allowed to do what, nor should it be. I guess it's wrapped up in what I think, from a lot of reading and thinking, is a confused understanding of the history of Morris.

Morris is generally a public event and as Ed has said sides are invited so that a wide sample of dances etc. can be enjoyed with the one simple exclusion.

I am a bit worried about the train set analogy because it belittles a great spectacle but in the end..........................?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Connie
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:37 AM

Les

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point - and there are those who will say I can bore for England on the subject (I'm a NW dancer myself for goodness sake!) - but the fact remains it's still Saddleworth's trainset. An opposing argument could be that my (women's) NW team shouldn't be allowed to host a weekend of dance with only women's sides.

Connie

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:25 AM

Thanks Ed but why no women?

Connie, I don't think it's not about opinions. I think it's about the history of Morris. As I understand it women have danced Morris and Cotswold, Sharp found some and then kept quiet.

Most Morris sides have some stance on the history in general ie it goes back a long way probably to the 15C or 16C. Many add all sorts of made up nonsense about pre-christian fertility rites. The palce of womenin that history is undeniable - that's my point.

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:21 AM

Thanks Connie, we're pretty chuffed with it too! It will be sparkling like new this year after a quick paint job, Saddleworth sunshine doesn't do the wood much good!

Ed

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Connie
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:17 AM

Deary me! Children! Can we just agree that there are different opinions on this? My own is that it is Saddleworth's trainset so they get to say who plays with it - and a very impressive train set it is!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:52 AM

Hi Les, the point about the invites is showcasing male dance sides as mentioned, we have never limited this to just NorthWest Morris (e.g. Adlington at the first 'Cart in 1975 who are a Cotswold revival side). Indeed the bigger the spread of traditions on show the better for the crowds who come to watch us each year.

I would suppose that none of the Morris organisations would want to exclude or suppress a new team on the basis they had no trad roots. Most teams would struggle with that definition. Whether that's a good thing or not for Morris is an interesting point though, depends on your view....

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:37 AM

Thanks Ed that's very clear.

But why don't you invite women's sides when they clearly have a much closer link to the Northwest Tradition than do Cotswold sides with, in some cases, no link to anything other than a festival workshop and a book of instructions?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:13 AM

Les - Missed your last post when writing the previous message. I echo your point about the thread becoming unpleasant, not what I wish either.

Our policy on invites is nothing more or less than as I said in the post above. We wish to showcase a facet of the Morris world we belong to, as well as celebrate a very local tradition for us (Alfred Burton's Rushbearing, local/family memories of Saddleworth etc). There is plenty of room in the world for other Rushcarts (I wish there were more!) and other groups with different aims from us.

The particular roots of the teams attending cover the whole spectrum from trad sides like the 'Nutters to revival sides formed in the '70's. Personaly I don't believe a side has to have a proven link to the source of the material it draws on for it's dancing. As long as the source is treated with some respect and the dance done well, it has value. For the North West, the true inheritors would be Carnival (Fluffy) Morris? but they have their own distinct culture and cycle of competition, long may they continue and thrive.

Anyway, as you say, Saddleworth have danced at Gorton's 'Cart and it was they who helped us pull the first one, with Adlington, were you at that one Les? As mentioned any 'photos/recollections from those days in Saddleworth?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:46 AM

Harry - There have been a couple of years in recent times when we've put out a 24 man Uppermill on the Saturday morning. Looks great, but it changes the dance in the last grand chain and takes some remembering, not something you get to practice much!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:41 AM

Ok JP2, I understand that and in some senses it's none of my business. I hope this will not become unpleasant. I will try my best.

Saddleworth Rushcart is a public event that says something or other about Saddleworth and it's history. As a sometime dancer and student of Morris etc. for around 40 years I rather suspect that some of the sides who have been invited have no significant history. If Morris is worth anything it must be related to it's history. If it's just a bunch of men dancing together in public it has no particular significance and probably no drama.

I accept that Saddleworth invite who they like - and so they should - how could it be otherwise? But why exclude women as dancers when women have clearly been dancing, saving and collecting dances for a very long time?

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:35 AM

1980 and a sixteen man 'Uppermill'!

Subject: RE: Saddleworth Rushcart 2008
From: JP2
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:22 AM

No Les,the long and the short of it is that Saddleworth Rushcart is exactly that,Saddleworth's.
Nothing to do with 19C traditions or historical connections,Saddleworth choose who they want to come to their cart and if they want all men sides that is their business and no one else's.
If you want an all inclusive politically correct Rushcart revive one or start one from scratch the YOU can invite who YOU like and if anyone tells YOU who to invite YOU can tell them where to get off!
Simple.