BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex

Subject: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Newport Boy
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:50 AM

I've posted this on the 'Cloning pets' thread, but a lot of you might miss it there. It's definitely worth a thread of its own.

Read here and Marvel.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:02 AM

I thought I recognised the name and face in the cloning article.

That one really did hit the headlines in the 70s, with all the discussions as to whether it really is possible to rape an unwilling man.

I would have thought that she would have totally steered clear of any more publicity for life.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:09 AM

The man she kidnapped weighed 17 stone it was no mean feat. If he is still alive the last person on this earth he'll want to be reminded about is her; be worried to death she'll want to clone him.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:13 AM

LOL eanjay.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:19 AM

I loved the skiing down Mount Everest bit.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Newport Boy
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:33 AM

I wondered whether the carnation "up my nose" was accurate reporting!

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:36 AM

Naked down Everest at 40 below, the nose is likely to have the only open hole.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:52 AM

There isn't a lot else to do, in Okehampton! LOL

Trust me, I used to live not far from there...and all the locals have mink-lined handcuffs, so I've heard... ;0)

I think Seth Lakeman should write a song about her...

"The Ballad of Joyce McKinney'



.....and a hundred songwriters put their heads together on Mudcat...and started scribbling furiously..

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:01 AM

"I loved the skiing down Mount Everest bit."

I can't believe you DID that. I have to ask, "Was it cold?"

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:09 AM

It was a tabloid dream, wasn't it? Does anyone remember Erica Roe's five minutes of fame in the early eighties?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:14 AM

I still have the naked skier in my thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:24 AM

Take a hot shower.

(Reminds me of something I once saw in a Bosch painting that didn't have any skiing in it.)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:30 AM

How does a naked skier fasten her/his feet to the bindings? Nails?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:35 AM

I can't believe you DID that.

I'm full of surprises. You can't take me anywhere really :-)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:36 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Megan L
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:04 AM

Yes we do we take you everywhere twice _ - - the second time tae appologise :)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:35 AM

Whoa. Truth is stranger than fiction, once again.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: bankley
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:38 AM

"mink lined handcuffs".... bet the mink didn't find it too funny,,,,,, unless of course, it was already dead...

"Carnation up my nose"........ I did that once, but it was back-wash from evaporated milk..

"Nude down Mt.Everest"....... gives Ski Poles a new meaning,    (no reference to the fine folks in Warsaw)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:02 PM

I cannot believe that you people in 2008 find it amusing that a fellow human being was repeatedly sexually assaulted in a violent and humiliating fashion. OK, so he was a Mormon misssionary. And he might have been fastened down with furry handcuffs. And maybe there was something in the story about the chastity erotic-thought-proof underpants he had been kitted out with back at base in Salt Lake City. And I suppose the business of her skiiing down with that flower up her nose(was it really her nose?). And then it happened in Okehampton.And she did own a lot of cloned pit-bulls with remarkably silly names. OK, I admit it, maybe there are elements in the story that particularly depraved people might find funny( I hasten to add I am not one of them).

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:40 PM

**struggling to use Art Thieme's pun about "Mormon Nailer" in this context, but can't really find the words**

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:51 PM

Sorry, Greg, but I found the whole thing hilarious. Most humor, unfortunately, has some basis in other people's unhappiness/discomfort. At least, that Mel Brokks' theory.

Not having been anywhere near the UK in 1977, this is the first I've heard about any of this.

As bizarre as so many details of the story may be, the single nuttiest quote in the whole article , to me, is "they fled to Canada disguised as mime artists."

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:07 PM

"And maybe there was something in the story about the chastity erotic-thought-proof underpants he had been kitted out with back at base in Salt Lake City."

Actually, there was no such reference in the article referenced at the top of this thread by Newport Boy ~ that's one prurient detail you remembered on your own. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to condemn others who can't help but be tittilated by this very strange story.

I've heard about those Mormon undergarments before. I've been told that a good Mormon is never supposed to take it off ~ the only way it gets laundered is when the owner bathes. Or so I was once told, anyway, by a gay friend who claimed to have enjoyed an encounter in SLC with a likeminded Mormon fellow who would do just about anything except to remove his magic union suit...

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:24 PM

From Greg: "OK, I admit it, maybe there are elements in the story that particularly depraved people might find funny( I hasten to add I am not one of them)."


Ha! I can hear you'm laughin' from here, Greg. ;-)

Anyway, I know, having lived on Dartymoor, that it's rumoured you Exymoor people do get up to some far more shockin' things on a cold winter's evenin' ;-)

Good heavens! I shall never be able to look at The Osmonds in the same light again, for I've just found the Mormon Undergarments site.
(cross-eyed smiley)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:34 PM

Poppagator: believe me, there was plenty about the undergarments in the English reports of the trial that we were all reading avidly in 1977. I was only reading them for a research project on urban myths, of course. Others were doing it because of suchlike prurient details.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:51 PM

"there was plenty about the undergarments in the English reports of the trial that we were all reading avidly in 1977"

Tell me more!!! MORE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:58 PM

Good Christ! Even Spaw couldn't come up with a story like that. ;-D

Why doesn't Shane ever get kidnapped by such women?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:03 PM

greg - It wouldn't be funny to the person it was happening to. Definitely not. No one likes being held at gunpoint and rendered humiliated and powerless. Well, no one except the odd masochist, I suppose....

However, it is damned funny to read such a story at second or third hand a long time later and after the fact! ;-) Come on, man, where is your sense of the ridiculous?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM

I wonder if Anderson (the Mormon) has gone into hiding now that his admirer has resurfaced. Or does he regret escaping?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:07 PM

I wonder if those pit bulls have any idea what they're getting into?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:15 PM

Well it's a bad story but at least it shows that it wasn't only Mormons who raped their young girls rather than the other way around. Both practices are reprehensible.
Is this supposed to be funny? I don't think it is.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:30 PM

It wouldn't be funny at all if you were there...but something like this that is way outside our normal set of expectations can be funny at a distance merely because it is so far outside our normal set of expectations (regarding male and female behaviour, etc.).

Do you get that?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:45 PM

My first reaction was to inquire where one could sign up to be a Mormon missionary...but 57 years old, probably menopausal or post, well,,,never mind!

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:47 PM

Sorry, Little Hawk,I was using irony. I forgot that Canadians and Americans were talking here. To make myself totally clear, when I said that I didn't find the story funny, and then proceeded to list all the features that appear amusing,what I was implying was: yes, it does indeed seem funny. I'm sorry, but when Brits say "That's not very funny" they mean "That's extremely funny". Sometimes. And then somnetimes they don't.
Now, I think you live in Toronto. I would say "They have this little waterfall near Toronto". That would mean "They have a totally and bizarrely ridiculously large and really rather impressive waterfall near Toronto".

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM

I think it's called black humour, Stringsinger...You know, when you know you shouldn't laugh at something *really*, but the situation is so bizarrely hysterical that you find yourself doubled up with giggles.

I can imagine Alan Sherman doing a great take on this story..linked up to the Okehampton Tourist Information Office...

"Hello Mudder, Hello Fadder. Here I am at Camp Okehampton...."

Hello Mudder/Hello Fadder

I know, I am *so* politically incorrect...but hell, you have to see the funny side of this, otherwise, we need to all 'give up' and go home.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM

I had a girlfriend for awhile who was, frankly, a bit crazy. A rather wild girl. But that wasn't all. She had a sister who was a whole lot crazier. My girlfriend claimed that her lunatic sister once forced one of my girlfriend's previous boyfriends to have sex with her (the sister) at knifepoint.

Having known the sister, I'd say it was definitely possible that that she might have done that. She was full of unreasoning anger and was looking for something all the time, but I doubt she had any idea what it was.

Such assaults by women on men are certainly rare, but they do happen now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:04 PM

Righto, greg. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:34 PM

Turns out this woman was also Miss World-Wyoming! Multi talented, shall we say?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:37 PM

Greg, you might well have been employing irony ~ it is pretty obvious now, in retrospect ~ but I'm pretty sure that some of the objections voiced in this discussion expressed genuine disapproval of enjoying the extreme misfortune of another human being. It was hard to tell who was serious and who was kidding until you made your point of view more explicit.

If we were having this exchange in person, I would certainly have been able to perceive your ironic stance. If the look on your face didn't make it immediately obvious, I would have given you a look that would have prompted some sort of telltale response.

I think this misunderstanding is just another instance of the well-docmented fact that cyber-communication often leads to misunderstanding due to the absense of visual/personal clues that we take for granted in 3D-world exchanges. Especially when we forget to throw in an occasional smiley-face, or an LOL or two.

Chalking it up to the dubious assertion that you Brits are somehow superior to us dumb colonists in your capacity for subtlety and irony is bullshit. That theory continues to grow in acceptance only because it too often goes unchallenged. We're usually charitable enough to let it slide.

I recently read a wonderful statement about this from a British commentator. When I get home, I'll copy it verbatim and post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Newport Boy
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:39 PM

Looks like we need a full biography - there's probably more to be discovered!

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:43 PM

Ain't all THAT much more to be discovered . . . .


I think it's all bullshit. There are NO skis in that pic.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:45 PM

GAAAAHHH!!!!

Why the hell is she wearing a 19th century naval topcoat?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:01 PM

16 pages! Let's see that page by page...

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:18 PM

Now why wouldn't it be seen as such a joke if the genders involved were reversed?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:40 PM

Moreman?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Gust from Sanity
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:13 PM

"Now why wouldn't it be seen as such a joke if the genders involved were reversed?"

Because of a double standard. If men do its a pathetic, brutal crime, punishable by death,in some places.. if a woman does it, the man is seen as a wimp...but alas, such is the age we live in. (Reverse discrimination, I believe is the 'politically correct' word)...or, maybe
....aw, never mind, I won't say it.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:16 PM

"Now why wouldn't it be seen as such a joke if the genders involved were reversed?"

That's what makes you one of the brightest and most incisive people on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:30 PM

Actually, the question is hardly worth asking because we all know why.

Why do people not worry about birds attacking cats? (and there are some types of birds who do attack cats, kill them, and eat them)

Again, the question is hardly worth asking because we all know why.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:41 PM

'Rape is socially, not biologically conditioned.

Although most men do not rape, societies that encourage aggressive masculinity and objectification/exploitation of women as the norm, have alarmingly high rates of rape.
Viewing rape as an individual problem does not address the underlying causes.
Men and women need to come together to discuss and strategize the profound social, political and economic changes needed to create a rape free world.'

'Around the world at least I women in 3 has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime. Most often the abuser is a member of her own family. (John Hopkins School of Public Health 2000)

An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male'. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)

from UCSC Rape Prevention Education

there does not seem to be any statistic for female rape of men.

'Again, the question is hardly worth asking because we all know why.'

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:42 PM

Thank you Little Hawk, who I'm sure is NOT one of the cat eating birds. Even if he IS a 'hawk'.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:59 PM

No, I'm a spirit hawk. MY job is to carry messages.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: JJ
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 09:27 AM

I believe that Mormons remove their undergarments only for the Three Esses: sex, swimming, showering.

And please don't confuse them with the fundamentalists (such as the FLDS) who term themselves Mormons in order to have convenient sex with girls.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: open mike
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM

thanks for the clarification--i wondered what "asmime" artists were.....

"McKinney was remanded in custody at Holloway prison, north London, pending the full trial but released on bail three months later because of her failing mental health. May was also bailed and at this point they fled to Canada disguised asmime artists."

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 04:16 PM

'....Around the world at least I women in 3 has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime..... (John Hopkins School of Public Health 2000)

I don't believe that.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:09 PM

I find it hard to believe too, but I'm not one of those women. It maybe be significant to find out what their definition of 'beaten' and 'coerced' is. Then again, if we haven't been in that position, we won't understand anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:18 PM

Well, I am, my daughter is, my neice, and daughters best friend. And no, I don't plan to discuss it any further.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:30 PM

It's enough for me Sorcha.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:34 PM

I am willing to say that it was the non human 'creature' my sister is married to and that my sister was complicit in part of it. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:37 PM

Its nonsense!.....Then again what is seen as 'coerced'?....second thoughts???

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 06:04 PM

No. Go away. YOU are hardly 'sane' if you think that is all it is.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 06:18 PM

NATurally, she'd be from North Carolina:

"here, however, some men say they are wary of her"

: )

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Gene Burton
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:49 PM

What McGrath said.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:27 PM

Please release me, let me go.
I'm not unwilling, but although
You may think forced sex is a crime
My faith says "not one wife at a time"

Apologies to any Mormons on the site. It just came to me on reading this!

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 12:24 AM

Sorcha, My post was not a response to your post,but to the 1 in 3 women post. Please understand, not to your post. Thank You!

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:52 AM

There seemed at the time to be a tendency on the part of legal authorities to believe that, notwithstanding the testimony, Mr. Anderson had pulled what we in the States call an "Aimee Semple", which is to say that he abandoned his religious obligations spent the weekend shacked up with a hot date, and then claimed to have been abducted.

I can't say what happened, not knowing any of the parties involved, but I feel that, whatever happened, the puppies should not be made to suffer for it.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: sapper82
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 11:49 AM

The Manacled Mormon? Wonder if Wetherspoon have thought of that as a name for one of their pubs???

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

If you include in coercion not being allowed to sleep until you have laid back and looked at the ceiling until he had finished then, yes, I do believe those figures.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:38 PM

Perhaps you could put the TV over the bed......mind you, clicking the remote control in manacles.....

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 02:54 PM

The latest (MSNBC) report I've seen:

Did cloned puppies expose old mystery?

There's not much new in the article, but there are a couple of pictures of the subject (1973 and 1978) at a "slide show" linked at the article.

The comment that pretty well summed things up, at the very end of the article:

James Stamey, the husband of the woman McKinney was charged with threatening, said that McKinney left Newland about two years ago and that no one had really seen or heard from her.

Until she showed up in the news about the cloned puppies.

"That's our Joy," Stamey said from his home in Newland.

Years ago, Stamey said, McKinney was a beautiful girl worthy of the Miss Wyoming USA crown.

"She's ugly as sin now," he said. "But, sure enough, that's her."

John

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:20 PM

As a rough contemporary of the subject, I say, with regret, with regards to physical appearance, we've all seen better days, and most of us didn't look all that good in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:23 PM

I don't know what to say!

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:51 PM

On a more serious note--I am not surprised by the figures--

We live in a society where women are still widely regarded as being subordinate to men--the sad fact is that men are about the last people that any woman would want to be subordinate to--they are less able to express themselves, less able to organize things, less able to make positive changes, either in their lives or their environments, less able to control their impulses, less able to correct their own mistakes--

He's your boss, your teacher, your boyfriend, your husband, and he has more power than you, more money than you, he's respected more than you, and he has a network that will back him up no matter what he does to you. So the coercion doesn't have to be overt, because it it built in to everything--

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 04:31 PM

What a totally biased statement, imo, M Ted.

I like men and I get fair fed up with them being knocked. I think most men are lovely. That, I'm sure, would also be said about some women, by men.


There are bad men, selfish men, yes, of course there are.

BUT..there are also bad women (down boys!) ;-) and selfish women...and to be perfectly honest, I get really sick of hearing how dreadful men are, and how they are to blame for absolutely everything in women's lives these days, by the 'Let's Bash Men' brigade.

There are some men who have had their hearts broken by women who don't give a shite, and sometimes, hearts don't ever recover from that, and there are also women who this has happened to as well.

So let's keep this 'equal' shall we. The men-haters can go and mumble on their own, as can the women-haters, whilst the rest of us know the truth, that being that good and bad lies within humanity, regardless of which kind of underpants they happen to be wearing. :0)

And as far as men 'having a network that will back them up'...are you kidding? Most men daren't even smile at a woman these days, for fear of being hauled off to court on some dubious sex charge!

Sheesh!

Bring back wolf-whistling, that's what I say. This world was a far happier place when men could whistle at women, and women responded happily with a smile, instead of needing counselling or starting up a law-suit.

It's all gone nuts, as that statement above proves..to me at least.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go put my 19th century naval coat on, with my Moreman undergarment, of course...for I'm off for An Evening In Okehampton... LOL

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 04:49 PM

Maybe we live in two different societies. Most of what M. Ted says is true and I agree with him. I've been a supervisor who wasn't taken seriously. This isn't sexual harassment, but it ain't right.

You START with respect. Later if the guys learn you like to be whistled at, winked about, pinched on the ass or fondled, it's fine. Just so long as they start off with the same respect they'd want. Just so long as they don't treat ALL women like that.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 04:54 PM

That woman must be one helluva tough gal to be able to manacle a 300-pound man who didn't wanna be manacled.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 05:22 PM

Peace, did you read the articles?

It didn't say that the abduction was without the use of some form of arms, or fraud, trickery, or drugs.

What it did say that she was supposed to have had someone (I seem to recall male, but possibly unspecified gender, unspecified size or strength) helping with the abduction.

What else it said was that he was "manacled", and seems to me (without looking it up again) that he was shackled, spread-eagled on the bed. Or maybe that's just my prurient imagination.

And as to Anderson's weight, the only reference I remember seeing in the articles to his physical size was in the self-serving defensive statement by McKinney.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 05:32 PM

I certainly read the '300 pound' somewhere. .

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 06:06 PM

I think I read 'gun' somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 06:16 PM

A three hundred pound gun is excessive, no?

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:39 PM

Liz Cornish, How correct you are!!

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:46 PM

Liz Cornish--my point was simply that women should not be subordinated out of hand to men, as the often they are in our ostensibly enlightened society. I don't deny that there are some despicable women in the world, but that doesn't change my point.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:52 PM

I'm with Ted on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:11 PM

Peace, yes, you read "300 pound", as did I. But it was only through her self-serving statement, with no corroboration, and seems unlikely, to say the least. And her credibility is highly suspect.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:14 PM

M Ted is one of the most intelligent people who posts to this forum. He is at once both grabbing and incisive. I don't know why I defer to his intelligence, but I do. He is calm, kind and very well connected to the way he thinks. His writing is masterful.

Didn't mean to make you blush, but sometimes a guy's gotta say what he's gotta say.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 04:44 AM

M Ted, I hope I didn't upset you.

But I am the daughter of a kind, gentle man, who did not even start to fit into that description above. I have a son who is very like him too. My father considered all women to be 'ladies' and treated them with the utmost respect and courtesy. I am not a feminist, I never have been. I have though always believed myself to be equal to men, and men equal to me. I was raised that way. I realise that not all men are like my father, just as I realise that not all women deserve respect from men, and vice versa.

I just got agitated because it was, to me, a somewhat sweeping statement, that's all.

Thank you for at least acknowledging that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 07:58 AM

weight of

If you scroll down this article his weight is given as 17 stone which is 238 pounds.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 10:38 AM

I think that the 300 is an approximation. Round 17 to 20 and 14 to 15 then 20 x 15 = 300 .

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:45 PM

"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure!"

I don't allege that it does, but "if the shoe fits".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:00 PM

I don't even argue against the idea that there are many decent men, or they are well represented on mudcat, Liz, and am happy that you are surrounded with the better sort--but we live in a society where cards are stacked to the advantage of some, at the expense of others. I can be a broken record on that subject--I grant--

Thanks for the kind words, Bruce--and just let me say that, for my part, I think that you are intelligent, talented, and a great judge of character;-)

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:02 PM

I find points with which I agree in both M.Ted's and Lizzie's messages.

What Ted seems to be talking about are intitutionalized factors. Whether an individual man ~ or even most individual men ~ is benign, the general overall assumptions of the society most of us live in ("Western Civilization") make it relatively easy for a highly-placed egocentric bad-guy male to get away with an awful lot of sexist nastiness. And, of course, many characters of that type are successful and highly-placed in various institutions and businesses, thanks to their single-minded dedication to self-advancement.

Most of us guys are not like that, however, as Lizzie so elequently stated above, and the general vitriol that some overzealous feminist types direct towards men-in-general is as unjust and baseless in fact as any other kind of sexism, racism, ageism, looks-ism, etc.

I personally believe that class trumps just about every other kind of injustice. Wherever an overprivileged elite prospers at the expense of exploited masses, the fat-cat element includes members of both sexes ~ and plenty enough of the women play very active roles in perpetuating the status quo, if only by manipulating/controlling "their" men behind-the-scenes by all sorts of time-honored methods.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:09 PM

Flibbermajeez Sass manacled a Mormon past sackreeillious Finigans Wake. Down the shorts and up the mites. Sorump borump went the blipsnorts all in the bloom of now.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:21 PM

LOL

Maybe you'd best stik with cartooning. There'll never be another James Joybce, don't even try.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:17 PM

I keep reading this as "She mangled a Mormon for sex".

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 12:04 AM

EWwww... I am a feminist and do NOT hate men, nor do I preach hatred of men. I agree with a lot of what M.Ted and Jeri said and am reminded that it never does to paint all peoples with the same brush. My father was a gentleman who raised us with respect and good manners. My brother is a gentleman, too. I always felt the equal of the men and boys in my life. That did not prevent me from meeting a man who was very nice and gentlemanly who treated me really well, until I broke up with him, he got drunk one night, missed me, supposedly, and came to house and raped me. There are assholes out there and sometimes good people run into them. By and large our society does not see women on an equal footing with men.

Subject: RE: BS: She manacled a Mormon for sex
From: Acorn4
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 04:53 AM

I am a Mormon...
I've got a h**d on
But I don't want to get my wicked way
Just wanna get down on my knees and pray

Cos I wanna be chastity
Yeh I wanna be chastity

I came from the USA
All the way to the UK
But I don't want no Joyce McKinney
Cos I'm too fat and she's too skinny

Yes, I wanna be chastity
OH yeh, I wanna be chastity

Tune is of course "Anarchy in the UK"