BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards

Subject: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:55 PM

I don't know what to think. I do know I'm disappointed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_affair

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:59 PM

It is a sad thing. He shouldn't have done it. Its between Elizabeth and him though.

I've heard some politicians dump their sick wives and hook up with younger women.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:04 PM

Certainly, it is a common thing. Look at John McCain. However, I was hoping for better.

On the other hand, I agree that the affair is between him and his wife. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Or hers, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:07 PM

I don't think this is very long as Mudcat copy'n'pastes go:



By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards on Friday admitted to an extramarital affair while his wife was battling cancer. He denied fathering the woman's daughter. Edwards told ABC News that he lied repeatedly about the affair with 42-year-old Rielle Hunter but said that he didn't love her.

He said he has not taken a paternity test but knows he isn't the father because of the timing of the affair and the birth.

ABC said a former Edwards campaign staffer claims he is the father, not Edwards.

Hunter's daughter, Frances Quinn Hunter, was born on Feb. 27, 2008, and no father's name is given on the birth certificate filed in California.

Three weeks ago, the National Enquirer said its reporters caught Edwards visiting Hunter at a California hotel. In the interview, scheduled to air on ABC News' "Nightline," Edwards said the tabloid was correct when it reported on his meeting with Hunter at the Beverly Hills Hotel last month.

Edwards was a top contender for the Democratic nomination for president, pursuing his party's nod even after announcing that his wife, Elizabeth, had a deadly form of cancer.

He placed second in the Iowa caucuses last January but dropped out of the race a few weeks later. He has been mentioned as a possible vice presidential choice for Barack Obama. The former North Carolina senator was the Democratic nominee for vice president in 2004.

David Bonior, Edwards' campaign manager for his 2008 presidential bid, said Friday he was disappointed and angry after hearing about Edwards' confession.

"Thousands of friends of the senators and his supporters have put their faith and confidence in him and he's let him down," said Bonior, a former congressman from Michigan. "They've been betrayed by his action."

Asked whether the affair would damage Edwards' future aspirations in public service, Bonior replied: "You can't lie in politics and expect to have people's confidence."

In 2006, Edwards' political action committee paid $100,000 in a four-month span to a newly formed firm run by Rielle Hunter, who directed the production of just four Web videos, one a mere 2 1/2 minutes long.

The payments from Edwards' One America Committee to Midline Groove Productions LLC started on July 5, 2006, five days after Hunter incorporated the firm in Delaware.

Midline provided "Website/Internet services," according to reports that Edwards' PAC filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Midline's work product consists of four YouTube videos showing Edwards in informal settings as he prepares to make speeches in Storm Lake, Iowa, and Pittsburgh, as he prepares for an appearance on "The Daily Show With Jon Stewart" and travels in Uganda in 2006.

Edwards' PAC following the six-figure payment with two smaller payments totaling $14,461, the last on April 1, 2007.

At the time Hunter was compiling the videos in mid-2006, Edwards was preparing a run for president.

Hunter's name appears on credits in the four videos as director and cameraman.

Episode One of the four videos captures a conversation between Edwards and an unseen woman as the two chat aboard a plane about an upcoming speech in Storm Lake, Iowa.

Cutting between clips of the speech and the conversation with the woman, Edwards touches on his standard political themes, declaring that government must do a better job of addressing the great issues of the day, from poverty and education to jobs and the war in Iraq.

"I want to see our party lead on the great moral issues — yes, me a Democrat using that word — the great moral issues that face our country," Edwards tells the crowd. "If we want to live in a moral, honest just America and if we want to live in a moral and just world, we can't wait for somebody else to do it. We have to do it."

{nice one, Mr. Edwards} ~   ed.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:10 PM

I'm greatly disappointed, and now rescind any of my hopes for a place for him in a possible Obama administation. It is a private matter of course, but I am saddened.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:10 PM

Anyone in particular in mind, JtS? heh heh heh...

I've always maintained that anyone who would want to be President must have a serious psychological flaw or two. When I cast my vote, I never think I'm selecting a saint; for me, it's always a matter of "lesser of two evils."

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:14 PM

There are a few of them PoppaGator

Remember Newt?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:22 PM

pdq, I must say that I don't see the point of cutting and pasting the exact same article that I linked to. (!)

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:24 PM

Open season on public figures. It's nobody's business but the few people involved. Too bad the National Enquirer felt so compelled to go after him. It wasn't like Gary Hart who made himself a target by challenging the press to prove it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:32 PM

If people would read the article (and thanks for posting it, Ebbie) you will see a total of $114,461 was paid to this lady for four short videos on YouTube. The donors of that money have a right to see it used for proper purposes or it should be returned. This is not "just about sex" but about flagrant disrespect for campaign laws and arrogance in general.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:41 PM

Yes, Ebbie, I too am very disappointed. John Edwards was "the guy" for both me and my wife; in fact, it was mentioned just the other day that it would be great if in the future he could get the nominee and select Elizabeth as his running mate - that's how much respect we have for her in this small Texas house.

Having written the above - this is between John and Elizabeth and has nothing to do with you and I and need not be doggedly reported on. With all of the deaths, the lies, the favoritism and wasted tax dollars that have been spent during the last eight years on Iraq and what else by buffoon bush and his sick administration - the press would do well to leave the Edwards' alone and look towards the white house and all of it's stinking filth. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:43 PM

Newspaper articles have a pretty short life on the web; links to them become obsolete/inoperative fairly quickly. The copy-and-paste option assures that the text will still be available to those who read this thread next month or next year.

The misappropriation of campaign funds is much more serious than the marital infidelity ~ at least, to us, the public. Of course, the two offenses are irretreivably interrelated.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM

"...the two offenses are irretreivably interrelated"

Isn't what Edwards paid sometimes called "hush money"?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:54 PM

>>>Too bad the National Enquirer felt so compelled to go after him.

Yeah the Enquirer scraping the bottom of the barrel for news. Who would have thunk it? :-)

It was sleazy but not unexpected.

>>>From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM

"...the two offenses are irretreivably interrelated"

Isn't what Edwards paid sometimes called "hush money"?<<<

It that illegal? or even immoral? Yes the affair was immoral. But covering it from third parties is the Edwards' business.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:06 PM

Eh...Excuse me, you're "surprised and disappointed"?

Don't ya just love the Americans....still believe in their politicians, how quaint...

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:13 PM

"Yes the affair was immoral. But covering it from third parties is the Edwards' business. "

Using money contributed for a political campaign for the purpose of covering up personal misbehavior certainly IS the public's business.

Despite my generally cynical attitude towards politicians in general, I have to admit that I found this particular bit of bad news somewhat of a shock and disappointment.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:05 PM

>>Using money contributed for a political campaign for the purpose of covering up personal misbehavior certainly IS the public's business.<<

That is true. Is that what happened? I haven't seen any accusations of that. If it is the case, then he certainly is not as smart as I thought he was. Why would a lawyer with a few hundreds of millions spend a couple of hundred thousand illegally?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:08 PM

Jesus Keriste. I'm with a friend and C fuckin' CN is spewing crap, the bastards. Recall when they toed the line right along with FOX. This is enough to gag a maggot. Bastards are supposed to report the news. Fact is, they make it. Let's not play into that shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM

PARDON ME!

"C fuckin' CN" should read "C fuckin' NN".

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:16 PM

I honestly don't care about politicians' affairs. The media throw out dirt so people who love to make judgments can get their rocks off doing so. There are too many things we don't know, which we have no right to know and never WILL know. Let his family deal with it and not the prying, self-righteous busybodies that we, the masses, can frequently become.

Does the difference between 'tabloid' news and 'hard' news exist anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:32 PM

I care about the politician's morals when they proclaim to be against "threats to the family" and for "the sanctity of marriage."

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:45 PM

Amen to that, Jeri. This is NOT newsworthy.


There is no hint of a misappropriation of funds from what I have read.

Something I consider to be much more newsworthy and something Americans, esp. in Colorado should know about is the Family Values Bob Schaffer, GOP candidate for Senate, has imparted to his son. He uses children in his political campaign ads and touts so-called family values. Yet in a quick perusal of his son, Justin's, Facebook Internet page, it seems apparent and appalling his type of family values include racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, and sexism. A picture of a Jesus with a confederate flag and assault rifle and the words "What would a Republican Jesus Do?" is just one example of the extreme and potentially violent values Mr. Schaffer seems to espouse. Such are not of value to a just and diverse society. Mr. Schaffer does not deserve to serve our great State nor our Country.

Why doesn't the press cover that type of ilk?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: kendall
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:46 PM

Now that I'm getting older I thought it was great that I'm more patient. Then I realized, I just don't give a shit.

Look, the males of every mammalian species is hard wired to hump almost any woman that will allow it. There is an old saying, "A stiff dick has no conscience ."
The only thing that keeps us paragons of virtue in check is consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: kendall
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:47 PM

By the way, I don't respond to bomb threats.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:33 PM

Kendall, I have often thought that the male of the human species is more civilized than the female- he had farther to go. *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:48 PM

Uh, didn't Bill Clinton get IMPEACHED for something like this? ALL of it is just OTT as far as I am concerned. As I keep saying, alpha males.

At least as far back as Jefferson, the US presidents have done this....Alpha Males. Get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:57 PM

Get real guys

there is nothing new under the sun!

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Conservative...YES!!
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:00 PM

Uh...no...Clinton got impeached for LYING under oath.


Big difference.


YES!!

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:09 PM

and again......

'Having an extramarital affair may be a big boo boo for public figures in Singapore and serve to taint the image of politicians in America, but it's not likely to make a big difference amongst French

Are all our politicians or their wives or their families beyond reprimand when it comes to their personal lives or matters? I seriously think it's impossible for anyone to be 100 per cent squeaky clean.'

vive la difference !

and who (should) cares?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:14 PM

Well, he joins a distinguished group: JFK, FDR, William Clinton, Rudy Guliani, John McCain, Gary Hart, Alex Rodriguez...

BFD!

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:16 PM

"...At least as far back as Jefferson, the US presidents have done this..."

How can anyone claim that?

In the last 140 years, Warren G. Harding was the only Republican president who was not faithful to his wife. Woodrow Wilson was the only Democrat who was. {please don't mention the slime piece aimed at George Bush during WWII, or Dwight Eisenhower who spent 5 years overseas and had a "companion" that was well-known to the press as well as to his wife}

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:32 PM

Gotta wonder how the primary would have turned out if this had come out during the affair. Who did Edwards siphon more votes from, Clinton or Obama?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:46 PM

"In the last 140 years, Warren G. Harding was the only Republican president who was not faithful to his wife." pdq

Ye gods. You know that, how?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: WyoWoman
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:53 PM

What they do on their own time is, I guess, their own business. However,John Edwards, you arrogant bastid, don't hold yourself up as a fine example of morality and then pull this crap. And don't try to gussy it up: You cheated on your partner just like any other mortal in such circumstances. Elizabeth is a classy, smart woman and she deserved better. What makes it such an affront is that you traded on her illness and on your beautiful devotion to a very sick wife. Your relationship, the two of you, inspired millions of people to aspire to that kind of support and closeness.

What hubris.

I agree with Sorcha, however. As long as we keep being attracted to alpha males with the win-at-all-costs instincts it takes to succeed in this warped system, we tend to end up with men with enormous ego needs that often are handily filled by the young, taut and easily impressed.

I work so hard not to be cynical, but sometimes, other folks don't exactly make it easy for me.

-- Wyo

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:04 PM

CNN has set Edwards up for death by stoning. Wolf Bluster is selling the stones.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:45 PM

>>>However,John Edwards, you arrogant bastid, don't hold yourself up as a fine example of morality and then pull this crap.<<<

When has he called himself an example of morality. I've listened to him a lot. I've only ever heard him talk about three different things, poverty, his father worked in a mill and that there were three people at the debate. I didn't hear the speech today, did he say he was an example of morality when he was admitting the affair? That would be rich.


Hey Hardly,

Are you cheering for your man Bayh to be named the VP candidate?

His home town is pumped!

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: MarkS
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:55 PM

Hey, look. He was just practicing for what he wanted to do to taxpayers.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: mg
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:05 AM

IT is all very sad. But if indeed he is the father, and wanted someone else to claim paternity, why not just a single man somewhere instead of a married man with children. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:13 AM

Ho hum. I don't give a toot whether John Edwards has had an extramarital affair, Bush has had an extramarital affair, Cheney has had an extramarital affair or Hillary has had an extramarital affair. I don't care if Obama or McCain did either.

What does it have to do with formulating policy? What does it have to do with running a country effectively? What does it have to do with anything that applies to governing effectively?

What proportion of the American public has had extramarital affairs at some point in their lives? I bet it's in the high 80s or more. Yet these hypocrites and the even bigger hypocrites in the media get all bent out of shape when a politician does what most of them have done themselves at one time or another.

This isn't news, it's just rank sensationalism and media feeding frenzy. People's private sexual affairs and interests are nobody's business but their own and that of their spouse or lover, if they have one. These incidents should not be used by the media to destroy careers.

A person's private sexual "morality" is totally their own business, and you can't judge it if you are not them, because you simply don't know enough about it. Besides, you wouldn't want someone judging you for stuff like that, would you? It's not necessarily a moral issue at all. It's a very personal issue. It has nothing to do with one's morality as a human being in a larger social and political sense, in my opinion.

John Kennedy had a huge number of affairs. So what? It didn't seem to interfere with his ability to do his job and govern, did it? In Kennedy's day the press had enough class not to publicize stuff like this. They knew it wasn't any of their business, and they knew it would be in bad taste to do that.

Now everybody thinks it's their business. Well, it's not. This is like a gathering of 300 million voyeurs staring through someone else's bedroom window. It's ludicrous.


As Jeri said: "The media throw out dirt so people who love to make judgments can get their rocks off doing so. There are too many things we don't know, which we have no right to know and never WILL know. Let his family deal with it and not the prying, self-righteous busybodies that we, the masses, can frequently become."

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:27 AM

In FDR's day, the press covered for the president... now they stalk famous people and pay stringers to catch them doing 'immoral' (whatever THAT is) things. I can't believe he thought he could hide the situation forever.

I also fervently wish that sex would quit being included as a test of competence & leadership.

I also wish folks would stop making it a Republican/Democrat "your side is just as naughty as my side" thing.



....I also wish ...in vain ...NOT to see such juicy tidbits posted here within 37 seconds of hitting the 'news'....

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:40 AM

>>Hey, look. He was just practicing for what he wanted to do to taxpayers.<<

Whisper sweet nothings in their ears and give them all 100 thousand dollars?

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:24 AM

I have a suspicion that affairs are more the rule rather than the exception. Which makes this a rather unremarkable story, all things considered.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:29 AM

What Bill said...............exactly what Bill said................twice............in three part harmony.........with feelin'...........geeziz, I must be aging faster than I suspected...........................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:31 AM

I agree. In the long run, sex is so unimportant in the larger scheme of things.

Really.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:48 AM

Yeah. So true, Stilly.

What if people were this silly about other people overeating? Imagine if there were reporters sneaking around all over trying to catch public figures getting a second helping at the Chinese buffet.

It's about as important as that.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM

Now...*grin*...having had that hearty vote of agreement from 'spaw, let me say that **SOME** transgressions do show a certain type of character flaw that I might want to know about in choosing a leader.
NOT simple messin' around, where it is just a matter between spouses as to how to deal with it...ala Clinton and, evidently, Edwards.
But things like when Newt Gingrich "...pressed his first wife to sign divorce papers while she was still in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery. He also graciously said "She isn't young enough or pretty enough to be the President's wife." (and much more...a search will get you more than you need)
Nothing FDR did disqualified him for office....and as far as *I* am concerned, the same goes for Larry Craig, although I don't 'like' either his attitude or behavior. It is up to voters ...and obviously, his party and constituents are kinda picky on some topics.

What I wish we had in the press was a rule to discuss relevance before breaking a story and not, like the National Enquirer, work overtime to find smarmy stories, no matter who it hurts or whether it's important.

I know many will disagree and say 'any' behavior by a public official is 'grist for the mill'.....but take that to logical extremes and you won't find many folks with NO character flaws to do public jobs.

It is flatly NOT easy to decide where to draw the line...but if every mistake is displayed in the news, pretty soon (like now) they override serious issues.

(oh, Bill...quit rambling and chewing on it!)(oh, ok Bill, you're right)

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:03 PM

Interesting. Luminaries of both parties have sinned, but Democrates seem to succumb mainly to sins of the flesh, while repubs seem more partial to sins of fiscal corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:25 PM

Democrats seem to succumb mainly to sins of the flesh, while repubs seem more partial to sins of fiscal corruption.
_____________________________

I think seems is the operative word there. Plenty of Republicans get caught.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:08 PM

Uh, pdq, have you not seen the Hemmsings fiasco? Quote from Wiki:

"In 2000, the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, which runs Monticello, appointed a multi-disciplinary, nine-member in-house research committee of Ph.D.s and an M.D. to study the matter of the paternity of Hemings's children. The committee concluded "it is very unlikely that any Jefferson other than Thomas Jefferson was the father of [Hemings's six] children."[86]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Sally_Hemings_controversy

JFK! (Marilyn among others), FDR (Missy LeHand)....I could go on but WHY? Bill, Spaw, Hawk, the others have it right.

Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:21 PM

Clinton may have lied under oath, but at least he showed up for the hearing.