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BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards

GUEST,heric 23 Aug 08 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,HiLo 23 Aug 08 - 11:24 AM
olddude 22 Aug 08 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,heric 22 Aug 08 - 12:19 AM
WyoWoman 22 Aug 08 - 12:03 AM
PoppaGator 13 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM
Riginslinger 12 Aug 08 - 09:28 PM
Donuel 12 Aug 08 - 09:25 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 12 Aug 08 - 08:26 PM
pdq 12 Aug 08 - 08:04 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 12 Aug 08 - 07:55 PM
PoppaGator 12 Aug 08 - 10:21 AM
beardedbruce 12 Aug 08 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,pattyClink 11 Aug 08 - 04:51 PM
dick greenhaus 11 Aug 08 - 03:12 PM
kendall 11 Aug 08 - 02:56 PM
PoppaGator 11 Aug 08 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,heric 11 Aug 08 - 01:31 PM
kendall 11 Aug 08 - 01:15 PM
PoppaGator 11 Aug 08 - 12:36 PM
GUEST,number 6 11 Aug 08 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,heric 11 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,number 6 11 Aug 08 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,heric 11 Aug 08 - 11:41 AM
Riginslinger 11 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM
kendall 11 Aug 08 - 07:43 AM
Riginslinger 10 Aug 08 - 10:51 AM
Troll 10 Aug 08 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,number 6 10 Aug 08 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 10 Aug 08 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,number 6 10 Aug 08 - 12:57 AM
CarolC 10 Aug 08 - 12:43 AM
Ebbie 09 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM
Riginslinger 09 Aug 08 - 07:51 PM
heric 09 Aug 08 - 07:32 PM
heric 09 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM
Bill D 09 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM
heric 09 Aug 08 - 07:16 PM
Bill D 09 Aug 08 - 07:03 PM
Janice in NJ 09 Aug 08 - 06:18 PM
Sorcha 09 Aug 08 - 03:28 PM
CarolC 09 Aug 08 - 03:25 PM
CarolC 09 Aug 08 - 03:21 PM
Sorcha 09 Aug 08 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 09 Aug 08 - 02:25 PM
dick greenhaus 09 Aug 08 - 02:03 PM
Bill D 09 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM
Little Hawk 09 Aug 08 - 08:48 AM
Stilly River Sage 09 Aug 08 - 01:31 AM
catspaw49 09 Aug 08 - 01:29 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 11:29 AM

Not me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 11:24 AM

For God's sake...who bloody cares? Why are Americans so caught up with this sex thing. All this proves is that the media decides who is fit for political office.Someone Digging up "dirt" seems to be the major danger of political fame these days.Who cares what people do or who they do it with ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:52 PM

Hmmmm
I could be wrong but I think the baby looks like Bruce?
how about Peace wanna fess up here !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:19 AM

Yeah I was thinking about this again today, too. Whether he affected the nomination process or not, he could have, risking the Democratic party's shot at the Executive Branch. All those people working for him and with him, but it's all about him. Protector of nobody.

I was thinking about it because I am reading Gore Vidal's Hollywood, which is about the 1920 presidential election, and the characters are discussing adultery in its *political* ramifications, accepting the reality of prevalent adultery. They were talking about the "double deceit" in damage control efforts, and even theoretical "triple deceit" by FDR.

It's a basic eternal reality in the world, but a smart politician has to think carefully - and Edwards clearly is not / does not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: WyoWoman
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:03 AM

If he were not a public figure, in this particular political milieu at this particular time, I wouldn't give a rat's patoot what he does on his own time -- except that I think Elizabeth didn't deserve the heartache. (But what do I know? It's not like we share a latte every Friday at lunch and get caught up.)

My reaction to this is the same as it was to Bill Clinton's dumb behavior. It isn't the sex, it's the stupidity. Why give your enemies any more ammunition? And are you really so stupid and arrogant you think you won't get caught -- in the middle of a presidential race? God, what an idiot.

--WyoWoman


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 01:27 PM

That was Jack the Sailor who turned us on the Jon Stewart, not me.

Credit where credit is due!

(Thanks anyway, especially for reminding us to "explore all angles" on this topic.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:28 PM

goD!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:25 PM

PoppaGator inserted a great Stewart show link and brought up a good point about the sex angle.

At what angle did Edwards insert it?

What did the vagina look like?

What other orifices were involved?

How much fluid was secreted?


These are the things that America wants...nay...NEEDS to know.
FOX news is remiss without these succulent details.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:26 PM

>>>Last I heard was that a top "Edwards campaign contributor" made the payoffs directly out of his/her pocket. Still illegal I believe. Anyone with corrections or new info is welcome on this one.

How is it illegal? I obviously does not violate campaign finance laws. It obviously is not part of the campaign.

By the way last I heard it was Edwards' money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: pdq
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:04 PM

"I should not have perpetuated the assumption that Edwards raided campaign contributions for hush money."   {rated} PG

Last I heard was that a top "Edwards campaign contributor" made the payoffs directly out of his/her pocket. Still illegal I believe. Anyone with corrections or new info is welcome on this one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:55 PM

I think that Jon Stewart might have the best last word on this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:21 AM

Maureen Dowd's column this morning got it about right:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

It's not whether a politician is a Democrat or a Republican ~ it's whether he's a narcissist. And all them them are!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:11 AM

"Except, he was the one who told us that character counted. As in these remarks about Bill Clinton in 1999: "I think this president has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen."

Or, in a March 2007 interview with Katie Couric discussing the return of Elizabeth's cancer: "I think every single candidate for president, Republican and Democratic, have lives, personal lives, that indicate something about what kind of human being they are. And I think it is a fair evaluation for America to engage in to look at what kind of human beings each of us are, and what kind of president we'd make."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102016.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 04:51 PM

I'm with WyoWoman, I'm so disappointed and tired of this kind of news.

It's not really about Edwards, Dem/Rep patterns, or some 'private' indiscretion, and it's not about American unsophistication.

It's about EVERY single "leader" we have, eventually being revealed to be a two-faced, lying, no-good, corrupt hypocrite. If they lie in broad daylight about this stuff, they'll lie about everything else.   

So who cares? Lots of us still do. When a civilization is run by scheming liars, it's not long til the Decline and Fall is on our doorstep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 03:12 PM

Kendall-
Was that line about paying the piper written by a piper?


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:56 PM

Ho Hum


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:00 PM

If the sex angle were not disproportionately important in the context of US public opinion, there'd be no reason to start lying. Much as in the Clitnon/Lewinski affair. That makes it difficult to distunguish between "relevant" and "irrelevant" aspects of the scandal.

By the way, when I posted last week, I should not have perpetuated the assumption that Edwards raided campaign contributions for hush money. He's certainly rich enough to have paid that out of personal funds.

If it's true that an Edwards aide fathered the child shortly after Edwards broke off the relationship, I think that tells more about the woman than about Edwards or anyone or anything else.

Since everyone knows all about DNS testing, I doubt that Ewards would be denying paternity if he truly were the father ~ and his former paramour undoubtedly should realize the same thing. I have to wonder whether she went off birth control, or whatever, after being dumped as a way of getting back at Edwards by creating this scandal. Hell hath no fury, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:31 PM

You folks are missing the point by seeing the extramarital affair, which is almost a red herring, and failing to acknowledge that if the unproven allegations are true, he is toast, for good cause. And the poor sucker has positioned himself so that his word is not worth a Zimbabwean dollar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:15 PM

Scandal sells. Good news doesn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 12:36 PM

In a perfect world ~ hell, in a sane world ~ Americans wouldn't get so upset about sexual matters, whether involving politicians or otherwise. However, that's not the case. People involved in public life are supposed to understand how the public will judge them, and act accordingly. Or, at least, they need to realize that failure to measure up to the puritanical public's standards is done only at one's own risk.

John Edwards set himself up for very valid criticism once getting caught with his pants down because he had so obviously capitalized on the image of a devoted husband caring for a seriously ill wife. That, I think, is the main reason that many of his supporters (incluing plenty who had not gotten bent out of shape over, for example, Bill-and-Monica) have reason to be disappointed.

My own immediate disappointment was amplified because Edwards has been the only national political figure to show any real discernment of just how seriously the federal government failed, and continues to fail, the people and institutions of the greater New Orleans area. He had been a uniquely effective and perceptive champion of our cause, and now his ability to help is seriously diminished.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 12:33 PM

Thanks heric ... I'm always fascinated by the suckers who get lured into the hustler's traps at the carnival time and time again .... i.e. the hustler being the media, the suckers being the ones who fall for the illusion of the carnival midway.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM

Yes, I give a rat's ass about who becomes US Attorney General. He or she largely gets to decide which politicians deserve to be brought down, and is supposed to be an expert in ethics. You can fall all over yourselves trying to prove who is the least prudish among you. (Thanks for staying as an active reader and participant in the thread, 6.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 11:49 AM

"Yes, and knowing that, one wonders why the media makes such a big thing of it every time something happens."

Because the media knows people luv this stuff ... hell, this thread is being kept alive due to 'interest' .... otherwise as you say .. why give a rat's ass.

it's Amerikan politiks. The never ending carnival. The geek, the hustlers, Kupi dolls, fraud, thieves, the fun house, the bumper cars ..... people just luv it.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 11:41 AM

It's the denial of the legitimacy of his own flesh and blood that bothers me, IF indeed that is what is going on here. He would posture himself as the defender and protector of the poor and the oppressed, when he won't protect his own daughter? Or he would assume the mantle of Attorney General, chief arbiter of law and ethics in the country? How could one person be so full of himself?

Repeat: I don't know if that's his daughter (and different newspapers have conflicting circumstantial facts asserted). Can't believe a word he says and one thing is for sure - he created this mess and all the questions. Otherwise I'd agree with Richardson that people shouldn't "pile on."


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 07:46 AM

Yes, and knowing that, one wonders why the media makes such a big thing of it every time something happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 07:43 AM

Boys will be boys. It's a guy thing.I don't care who is doing who; it's the pretense that gets to me. These clowns who claim to be paragons of virtue while being anything but in private. People like John Edwards, Larry "Wide stance" Craig and Rush "the pharmacist"Limbaugh. Not to mention Bill "the gambler" Bennett preaching against betting.
A pox on all hypocrites.If you are going to dance, you must pay the piper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 10:51 AM

"This was no innocent child- she was 42 years old at the time."


                      She must of come fresh at 43!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Troll
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:03 AM

I don't consider any of the candidates to come up as high a standard as being " the lesser of two evils ".

They are all pathetic panderers to the LCD and special interests.

I'll probably write in Bugs Bunny again. He, at least had the guts to admit that he should have turned right ( or was it left?) at Albuquerque.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 07:44 AM

bonged .... bonked .... they both mean the same here in SJ Jack

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 04:43 AM

Bonged?

Bonked?


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 12:57 AM

I wonder if he bonged Paris Hilton ??

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 08 - 12:43 AM

Any woman who sleeps with a married man (or man with a married woman) exempts herself from any rights to expect her feelings to be protected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM

One final note from me and then I'll shut ma mouf. He "told the news media he didn't love her"? This was no innocent child- she was 42 years old at the time.

The notion of her being vulnerable at that age is kind of like Bush attributing his partying days to his "reckless youth"- he too was in his 40s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:51 PM

I wonder how the other woman felt when he told the news media he "didn't love her?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: heric
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:32 PM

Sure, he offered to participate in paternity testing, AFTER it was exposed in mainstream media. Precisely my point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: heric
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:30 PM

"I mean, do you know how many pictures have been taken of me holding children in the last three years? I mean, it happens all the time."

- John Edwards

(After he came clean. . . . )


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM

Last I heard, HE had offered to submit to DNA test, SHE is refusing to do it. (Some former member of Edwards' staff is claiming to be the father.)

Edwards being worth millions might explain both attitudes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: heric
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:16 PM

Part of the allegation, still in dispute, is that John Edwards would and did willfully deny the legal rights of his bastard child, in order to protect his own image and popularity.

If this allegation were probably true, I would want to know about it before voting, and the man would lose my vote.

Even if he knew there was a possibility the child was his, but he avoided the responsibility to ascertain the truth, he would lose my vote.

Prudishness is not a part of that calculation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 07:03 PM

He's NOT proud if he & his wife were not in agreement about it and it hurt her....nor should he be proud.

I'm not sure what gripes me the most....that he offended his wife's feelings, or that he imagined for a moment that he could keep the whole thing secret forever - and even meet this woman in a major hotel during a media conference!


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 06:18 PM

Hey, this is good news! Many -- possibly most -- of our political leaders going back to the Founding Fathers have been practitioners of polyamorous free love. As TJ said, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." And as I say, "whatever floats your boat." We're a nation of polys and pannies. We always were and we always will be. It's such a crying shame that Johhny Boy feels he has to apologize, like he did something wrong. Now is the time for him to take the lead, and get up in front of the cameras and tell it like it is: "Say it long! Say it loud! I'm poly and I'm proud!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:28 PM

:) Good one Carol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:25 PM

John McCain who cheated on his wife (and then left her) after she had been horribly injured and disfigured in a car accident. If Edwards' affair makes him no longer suitable for any kind of public office, would McCain's affair also make him not suitable for any kind of public office?


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:21 PM

Clinton may have lied under oath, but at least he showed up for the hearing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:08 PM

Uh, pdq, have you not seen the Hemmsings fiasco? Quote from Wiki:

"In 2000, the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, which runs Monticello, appointed a multi-disciplinary, nine-member in-house research committee of Ph.D.s and an M.D. to study the matter of the paternity of Hemings's children. The committee concluded "it is very unlikely that any Jefferson other than Thomas Jefferson was the father of [Hemings's six] children."[86]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Sally_Hemings_controversy

JFK! (Marilyn among others), FDR (Missy LeHand)....I could go on but WHY? Bill, Spaw, Hawk, the others have it right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:25 PM

Democrats seem to succumb mainly to sins of the flesh, while repubs seem more partial to sins of fiscal corruption.
_____________________________

I think seems is the operative word there. Plenty of Republicans get caught.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:03 PM

Interesting. Luminaries of both parties have sinned, but Democrates seem to succumb mainly to sins of the flesh, while repubs seem more partial to sins of fiscal corruption.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM

Now...*grin*...having had that hearty vote of agreement from 'spaw, let me say that **SOME** transgressions do show a certain type of character flaw that I might want to know about in choosing a leader.
NOT simple messin' around, where it is just a matter between spouses as to how to deal with it...ala Clinton and, evidently, Edwards.
But things like when Newt Gingrich "...pressed his first wife to sign divorce papers while she was still in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery. He also graciously said "She isn't young enough or pretty enough to be the President's wife." (and much more...a search will get you more than you need)
Nothing FDR did disqualified him for office....and as far as *I* am concerned, the same goes for Larry Craig, although I don't 'like' either his attitude or behavior. It is up to voters ...and obviously, his party and constituents are kinda picky on some topics.

What I wish we had in the press was a rule to discuss relevance before breaking a story and not, like the National Enquirer, work overtime to find smarmy stories, no matter who it hurts or whether it's important.

I know many will disagree and say 'any' behavior by a public official is 'grist for the mill'.....but take that to logical extremes and you won't find many folks with NO character flaws to do public jobs.

It is flatly NOT easy to decide where to draw the line...but if every mistake is displayed in the news, pretty soon (like now) they override serious issues.

(oh, Bill...quit rambling and chewing on it!)(oh, ok Bill, you're right)


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:48 AM

Yeah. So true, Stilly.

What if people were this silly about other people overeating? Imagine if there were reporters sneaking around all over trying to catch public figures getting a second helping at the Chinese buffet.

It's about as important as that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:31 AM

I agree. In the long run, sex is so unimportant in the larger scheme of things.

Really.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Integrity + Frailty? John Edwards
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:29 AM

What Bill said...............exactly what Bill said................twice............in three part harmony.........with feelin'...........geeziz, I must be aging faster than I suspected...........................

Spaw


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