BS: Observations of Republican Convention

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 07:32 AM

No wonder they jerked him from an anchor position!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM

I couldn't have said it better:

Olbermann on the GOP's use of 9/11 footage

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 01:10 PM

Modulated Green Screen on McCain's Talk...a crackup.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM

Taking a look again this morning, I see that of course there's a DNC in a (little more than a) Minute, too.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM

Thanks for the links, Becky.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:01 AM

Desert Dancer, Thank you for posting that..was interesting, and something to think about!!....Only problem is, a lot on here, are parroting WHAT to think, instead of moving on to HOW to think! but shhh..don't speak of it too loud, ..might wake someone up!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:15 PM

Admittedly, a biased condensation, but, amusing (if you you're not a Republican): The RNC in a Minute.

Here's a more even-handed, if similar, analysis for both conventions:
The words they used.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:53 AM

Hey Joe....
I was just working off of Akenaton's post...(the first one)
..and pointing out that there is room for 'honest conviction' from all of them...but after all...they ARE politicians...not saviors from on high...speaking of that, Palin at least admitted to getting 'high'(pot) in her 'youth'.....as Billy never inhaled......(jeez, rolls eyes).
Stereo politicians, speaking from both sides of their mouths........
Warmest regards and God Bless......

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:12 AM

Hmmm. In the first three cases, I think I'd change "if so-and-so had conviction" to "if so-and-so were a mindless ideologue."

Luckily, our four candidates this year are NOT mindless ideologues. Of the four, it appears that Palin is the only one who may be in favor of legislation to restrict abortion - and it appears that she truly believes this is the right thing, so I respect her honesty.

As for the others, do they support abortion, or do they oppose the attempt to control abortion with legislation?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:27 AM

ooops.....forgot me nameFrom: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM

If Obama had conviction, he would not wish to be leader of the biggest, baddest, capitalist country in the world.

If Biden had conviction, he as a Catholic would oppose abortion

If McCain had conviction, he'd oppose illegal immigration, and not have done the driver's license bit, while pandering across 'the aisle'

If Palin had conviction, she wouldn't have got the abortion, and urged her daughter to get one, for the sake of her political career.....oh, she didn't....no wonder the 'liberals' hate her....

Just 'drivel'

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:53 PM

If Obama had conviction, he would not wish to be leader of the biggest, baddest, capitalest country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:39 PM

DougR, fancy shmancy. What you really mean is "uppity", right?

By the way, what happened to all the talk about Obama being a media star? Can we start talking about Palin being like Britney? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:13 PM

Its conviction stupid!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:10 PM

Just t be clear, McCain's average lead over all polls is about 2.9 points. Nice bounce from the cheesecake; or else it was her gravitas as a candidate for senior national administration. I don't think the latter, though. In the gravitas department she's on a par with Mary Poppins.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

Part of the surge in polls is a positive view of the two Republicans and part is a very negative view of Joe Biden. In political circles, he is known as the Democrats chief attack dog. He rips the Republicans "a new one" even when they are sincere and correct. The public sees divisive partisanship in Biden and about 80% of us don't like what we see.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: DougR
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:11 PM

Folks here are probably aware that McCain/Palin pulled ahead of Obama/Biden in today's Gallup Poll by several percentage points. Prior to the RNC, Obama and Biden led by six or seven points. Seems, according to several respondents that folks thought the Democrats were putting on "airs" with their fancy staging, etc. at their convention.
DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM

The Republican Convention explained, in pictures.

Good for grins, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:47 AM

From the Washington POST:

By Howard Kurtz
The Ad: Announcer: The original mavericks. He fights pork barrel spending. She stopped the Bridge to Nowhere. He took on the drug industry. She took on big oil. He battled Republicans and reformed Washington. She battled Republicans and reformed Alaska. They'll make history. They'll change Washington. McCain. Palin. Real change.

McCain: I'm John McCain and I approve this message.

Analysis: John McCain is using this ad to try to reclaim the "maverick" label once routinely attached to his name, before he embraced the Republican right more tightly in seeking the GOP nomination. His new running mate, Sarah Palin, can also claim to have taken on her state's Republican Party as Alaska governor, although it is conservative media outlets that most often call her a maverick.

The Arizona senator has made a crusade of battling pork-barrel "earmarks," but the whopper here is that Palin opposed her state's notorious Bridge to Nowhere. She endorsed the remote project while running for governor in 2006, claimed to be an opponent only after Congress killed its funding the next year and has used the $223 million provided for it for other state ventures. Far from being an opponent of earmarks, Palin hired lobbyists to try to capture more federal funding.

McCain can fairly be said to have taken on the drug industry by co-sponsoring a bill to allow imports of cheaper drugs from Canada. Palin presided over a tax on oil company profits and pushed the industry to develop Alaska's gas reserves.

To say that McCain "reformed Washington" is an overstatement. He has had limited success, such as on campaign-finance legislation, but many of his other efforts, most notably on an attempt to revise immigration laws, have failed. And McCain has changed his position on such issues as President Bush's tax cuts, which he originally opposed but now wants to extend.

The commercial makes clear that McCain, with the addition of a rookie governor, is no longer running as the candidate of experience. Instead, he is trying to steal the "change" mantra from his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, and appeal to appeal to swing voters who are disillusioned with the Republican Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM

"The establishment media take pride in their role as gatekeeper to our political process and social discourse.

So the gatekeeper media's reaction has been: Who is Sarah Palin to suddenly show up on the national stage? We didn't vet her. And we don't approve of her.

Thus Martin Peretz, editor-in-chief of the venerable New Republic for the last 34 years, wrote a blog post Thursday while he was "still reeling from last night's malign hysteria at the Republican convention. This is a rotten crowd, even the pious Christian Huckabee and certainly Mayor Giuliani and the aspiring vice president, Sarah Palin."

Despite reeling from the speeches, Peretz was able to "give [Palin] her due: she is pretty like a cosmetics saleswoman at Macy's." He continued that it was "good to see that the Palin family didn't torture poor Bristol, at least in the open." And he concluded: "Yes, please God, do bless America and rescue us from these swilly people."

No malign hysteria there.

The Obama campaign, which would like to get votes from some of these very Americans, isn't going to follow Peretz down that rabbit hole. To the degree they have to address the Palin question, they'll stick to the argument they made in their first reaction to the Palin announcement: "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency."

" (Wm Kristol, NYT)

---

I absolutely love the characterization by Perez of the RNC crowd as malign and "swilly". It captures the zeitgeist very well -- the chanting USA, the electrification with Palin's half-truths, and the overdone balloons.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:47 AM

Why? Who knows? He probably has the right friends and connections in the industry...and they probably figured he would amuse the audience.

Don't expect much from today's music industry. It is run by people who worship money, not art. They aim for the lowest common denominator.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: GUEST,Thornton ON
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:10 AM

Did anyone watch Russell Brand host this year's MTV Video Music Awards last night in Los Angeles ?

The 33-year-old perverted clown insulted everyone from the president to a boy band because they said they don't do drugs and respect virginity.

Why on earth did they ask this thing to present the awards is this a reflection of music culture today ?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:55 PM

Yeah, pdq, but you know as well as I do that the electoral college is a crock when it comes to really representing the will of the people in an accurate manner... (grin)

What I meant was that Nixon may have actually got a slight majority of the popular vote nationwide in 1960. It's possible that some votes were laundered in favor of the Democrats in the Chicago area in that election, for instance.

I'm not a bit regretful that Nixon didn't win (officially) in 1960, I'm just saying that he may have gotten more votes than Kennedy. I think he would have been a poorer choice for president than Kennedy, just because of his paranoid personality and how adversely that affected his dealings with people.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:43 PM

The idea of an only semi-successful mayor suddenly taking over the Presidency is an awful one, to me. As she herself put it, the President's Administration is not a voyage of self-discovery.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: pdq
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:47 PM

Actually, Grover Cleveland ran for president in 1888 and lost. He came back in 1892 and won.

Also, Richard Nixon received only 40.8% of the votes in the Electoral College. Almost a landslide do to the Kennedy-Johnson success in the ol' Solid South.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM

"Obama will not be a flash in the pan if he is not elected"

Yes, I get what you mean about Obama's continued influence as a senator, Kat. I simply meant that he would be a flash in the pan as a presidential candidate if he fails to be elected this time, that's all.

The only one who has ever failed to win in a presidential race and then come back later to win one was Nixon...and his loss to Kennedy in 1960 was by a hair. (in fact, he might have actually won it, but we'll never know for sure)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM

IT's an odd situation. McCain is much more popular than the Republican Party, according to the polls. And Obama is significantly less popular than the Democratic Party. The natural consequence of this is for McCain ro run on popularity and Obama to run on issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM

Despite Joe Offer's worrying about how 'some' folks are trying to demonize McCain & Palin, I submit that the real issue & danger is not directly about those two individuals, but rather about the entire ISSUE of leaving the Republican power structure in place.

McCain is not likely to replace any significant amount of the bureaucracy he inherits, and many of THOSE folks were installed by an administration directed by Karl Rove and his pals.

Add to this that there at least two Supreme Court judges hanging on by their fingernails, hoping for Obama to replace them, and we see what the repercussions of allowing McCain in can be, even if he personally tries to be 'decent'!

Add to this the very IDEA of McCain not surviving his term and Palin, with her MUCH more conservative positions and MUCH less experience and knowlege becoming president. (Does no one remember Dan Quale & Spiro Agnew!?!?!)

I suppose that, to win an election, it is necessary to focus on the candidates & their qualities & character a lot, but Obama's campaign needs to keep constantly in front of the public just how devastating the last 8 years have been, and how much worse it could get.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM

LH, I forgot to say that Obama will not be a flash in the pan if he is not elected. He will still be a Senator; that's one more Democrat in the Senate to thwart whatever BS McCain and Palin may cook up to destroy a woman's right to choose, pack the Supreme Court with more right wingnuts, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:34 AM

Bobert, I still have that hope, too, as do millions of other people in our country all of whom will vote, I am sure.

Joe, I think, in your kindly way, you are giving Palin too much of the benefit of the doubt. She hasn't changed Roe v Wade in Alaska because she can't. First, she's not in the legislature and second it is a federal law. But, make no mistake about it, IF she becomes VP she will do ALL in her power, which may also become presidential power, to reverse it AND to pack the Supreme Court with more right wing judges, something McCain has already said he will do. Although, I would hope McCain would be thwarted by a comfortable majority Democratic Congress. Still it's a risk I don't want to take.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

Well, between checking off chores from the P-Vine's honey-do list this morning I have been catching snipettes of the Sunday talkin' heads and it seems the consenses that Ms. Sarah will be cacooned thru election day the best that the Repubs can pull off... So don't expect to see her on Meet the Press where Joe Biden just fielded one hard question after another...

And, other than the 3 debates John McCain probably won't do Meet the Press either which I fully understand...

So oughtta be an interesting campaign with McCain and Palin doing fake town hall meetings and rallies in the lilliest of white America... BTW, did ya' see yesterday's McCain ralley??? Must have been 300 to 400 people there and not one black person... Hmmmmm?

Looks as if the McCain/Plain strategy has been settled...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:56 AM

Just musing. If suffering unjust imprisonment and torture for years is an important qualification for the Presidency, should we look to Gitmo for the next crop of candidates? Or do we have to wait 40 years until they ripen?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:06 AM

Yanking a VP choice is risky.

What could cause McCain to withdraw Palin?

Could he really endorse no abortion even in a case of incest?
HYPOTHETICAL illustration

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM

"Tough enough", Little Hawk? Perhaps. Like any other peoples, Americans need to perceive their leaders as being tough enough to chart and hold to a course. However, I don't agree that 'tough enough' commonly entails

"1. bellicose statements about fighting America's supposed foreign "enemies" and pursuing them "to the gates of hell"

2. vicious attacks on the patriotism and courage and character and honesty and morality of the opposing candidate.

In my memory are Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Carter.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:34 AM

Some call it backbone some call it fight. The spirit of fighting for and defending our nation is neither unethical or wrong.

When Republicans were dedicated for their cause (which turned out horribly) they were called staunch.

Staunch Democrats have upset bearded bruce, but even he will prosper from the change that will begin soon.

How soon?

The change will face another 2 years of free fall from the Bush debt as well as corporate and financial bank swindles that have crippled the world market.

Bbruce is a fellow Ameican so I will of course do the right things to insure that he will not lose his house or job needlessly.

Inevitably he will do the right things to help us, his fellow citizens to live and build a better future.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM

Joe,

As it has been said about presidential contests, "The Dems have the 6 point proposals and the Repubs the 3 point victories"...

The Repubs have mastered winning these things... Right now MccIna has packed his campaigne with Bush speechwriters and strategists... It is rumored that Karl Rove has been secretly advising the McCain people and lets not forget the T.Boone's of the world who if the election gets close will spend whatever it take in 527 money to smear the Dem...

Plus, this year there are a large number of people who absolutely won't vote for a black man... Especially in the Southern Staegy states...

LH,

I still have ***hope*** that Obama will outflank McCain in enough states to win and be that "Trojan Horse" and actually be the kind of leader that can sell Congress and the American people on some major mid-course corrections which the country desperately needs...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:18 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:28 AM

LH,

"They do not vote in fair-minded and rational ladies or fair-minded and rational gentlemen who treat their opponents decently and look at both sides of something before shooting their mouths off, they vote in pit fighters. They are attracted by the scent of blood."


Exactly! Look at the Obama supporters here ( since there are a greater number) and see how many are acting in this way. Other than Joe Offer, I suspect they will continue to use tactics they call Rovian right up to the election, even when it is pointed out that they are hurting their own cause (By Obama!).

I do NOT say that the Republicans are much better- but I doubt they will make the concerted effort that the Dems are pushing. There will always be a fringe of "supporters' that push the limits of decency ("Anything goes as long as we win")- IMO there will be more on the Left than the Right in this election.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:33 AM

I'll tell you one thing that worries me, Kat. I think Obama may not be a nasty enough man to campaign effectively against the Rovian tactics of the Republicans. Your public will always vote against a candidate whom they do not perceive as "tough enough".

Posing as "tough enough" generally involves two avenues of crummy and cynical behaviour:

1. bellicose statements about fighting America's supposed foreign "enemies" and pursuing them "to the gates of hell"

2. vicious attacks on the patriotism and courage and character and honesty and morality of the opposing candidate

Obama is the type of person who likes to take the high road and rise above that sort of awful garbage...and I greatly respect him for wanting to rise above it...but it will not serve him well at the ballot box if he does, because the majority of American voters are unmerciless to people who take the high road. They do not vote in fair-minded and rational ladies or fair-minded and rational gentlemen who treat their opponents decently and look at both sides of something before shooting their mouths off, they vote in pit fighters. They are attracted by the scent of blood.

Thus they usually get the irresponsible governments that their instincts led them directly to, seems to me. That was what usually happened in Rome too. The mob loved nothing better than a conquering hero who came home figuratively walking on a carpet of skulls...or else promising to deliver one quite soon.

McCain is acting out that role to perfection, as Republican candidates almost always do. The only time I can recall when it totally backfired for them was in '64 when Goldwater ran. There was enormous sympathy for the dead John Kennedy at that time and a desire to continue his legacy by electing Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson played on that and successfully portrayed Goldwater as an extremist wacko who would lead the nation into a disatrous war.

And what did Johnson do in the four years after he was elected? He delivered that carpet of skulls...over in Vietnam.

This is why I trust the Democratic Party as much as I do the Republican Party, which is to say I trust them both about as much as I would a pit viper.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:11 AM

No, Kat, I guess I haven't read anything I believe about Palin's "extreme religious beliefs." Her beliefs are to the right of mine (mine are on a par with Obama and Kerry), but still what I would consider within the "mainstream." No, I wouldn't consider her ideas dangerous at all, even though I disagree with many of her positions. She doesn't believe in abortion and she inquired about book censorship - but I haven't seen any indication that she actually made any move toward removing books from libraries or negating Roe v. Wade. I think a candidate has a right to personal beliefs, even if others deem those beliefs extreme - the question is whether that candidate would impose those beliefs on the rest of the nation. Palin certainly hasn't done that in Alaska.
I think we need to get away from polarization and from demonizing people who don't agree with us. We may not agree, but we have to find common ground with our opponents if we are to make any progress at all. We cannot move foward in this country without at least some support from the Republican Party - I'd much rather deal with a McCain/Palin Republican, than with a Bush/Reagan/Nixon Republican.
I think John McCain is the Republican Senator that Democratic Senators have respected most. I think he still deserves that respect.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:40 AM

I could never forget that you are not an American, LH, but I think I was writing more to your metaphysical side, which knows no borders, correct?:-)

Amos, I agree, but I am still going to use my bumper sticker which says "McCain - Bush's Third Term."

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:04 AM

That McCain/Palin have succeeded in moving their position in public impressions away from Bush is a mission accomplished--they had to do that both because of Bush's poor repute and because, possibly, they have some smattering of principles against such things as torture and spying on citizens.

However, they ddo not represent the current of change which they claim to deserve the mantle of, IMHO. They did not deliver more than a sketchy paucity of concepts or programmatic ideas.

Going up against the rich proposals of Obama by imitating his platform with an added dose of fear and fight is not exactly inspiring.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:43 PM

I'm like anyone else, Kat. I have to call it as I see it.

You say that Palin's a flash in the pan. That will be true if the Republicans lose. If the Democrats lose, then Obama will have been a flash in the pan. That's how it always works in politics which is mainly the art of fashioning and marketing popular myths to keep the public divided, yet enthused and onside to once again rubber stamp their acceptance of the status quo.

The status quo is that you have 2 great ruling parties neither of which truly represents or serves the general public...and they can't, because they are the tools of larger concerns and those larger concerns are the corporate people who fund them and who fashion the myths which are marketed. One of the purposes of those myths is to maintain the world's largest military-industrial effort at full production by whatever means possible...and that requires more warfare and more threats of war.

I don't see myself as part of that system at all, so I can't support it. I'm looking at it entirely from the outside. Remember that I am not an American. I view your elections with trepidation as someone in a separate country, a country which, like the whole world, has very grave reasons to be concerned about what the USA will do in the next four years.

I'd much rather Obama gets elected than McCain, because the world in general would get along better with Obama, I think. It would be a chance to defuse a lot of international tension. I will not be overly surprised if he doesn't, however. Nor will I be overly surprised if he does. It could go either way at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:18 PM

BillD, I was cheering you on, you just couldn't hear me all the way from Colorado! I was so pleased to see you "let loose" it was fantastic!

LH, your defeatist rhetoric is so disappointing knowing your knowledge of the power of words, read and spoken. Like heric says, we have to try and it doesn't hurt to use words of hope, positivity, etc. as we do so.

Palin is a flash in the pan...burns bright and fast goes to ashes.

Joe, I can hardly see how you could think such of either of them. Have you read of Palin's extreme religious beliefs re' government, etc.? She is a very dangerous entity, imo and not someone to be encouraged.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: heric
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:35 PM

cross-posted. I agree with most of what you just said, EXCEPT maybe, just maybe, the less educated, the hayseeds, the ditto-heads, and even their social opposites, have a valid point to consider when they are highly suspicious of intellectuals in executive leadership positions.

I said at the time that Obama may have lost the election with his "bitter" comment made in San Francisco, and not in PA. Palin was instructed to and did hit hard on that one. He should have said it in PA. That would have been a lot more respectful.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:29 PM

Well, I'm still not convinced that McCain and Palin are as evil as many of you people say they are. I'm a Democrat (albeit a moderate one), and I'm going to vote for Obama/Biden, so don't get all worried about that.

The problem is, our country has a nasty record of electing Republicans with a fair degree of frequency, and there's a chance they'll do it again this year. In my lifetime, this country has elected a number of of Republican Presidents who are cynical, warmongering, corrupt, criminal, just plain stupid, or all of the above. I may not agree with the political philosophy of McCain and Palin, but I think they are a real departure from the typical Republican candidates. They are a sign of hope for the Republican Party, that maybe that party can come up with nominees who are halfway decent people.

I suppose that if McCain and Palin lose, this move toward Republican Party reform will be stopped dead, but I do see it as a ray of hope for now. After all, it sometimes seems that McCain's closest ally in the Senate is Ted Kennedy.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: heric
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM

AND, one last thing before I shoot some Tequilas: The Americans on this list don't address DougR as "The Honorable Gentleman from Arizona," but I believe they respect him and his opinions more than you suspect.

Really. It's complicated.


(And personally I think it's beautiful.)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:24 PM

I'm not saying that Amos's comments are not thoughtful and incisive. They often are. I am saying that it is not thoughtful and incisive comment that gets a politician elected in the USA, because the majority of voters are not swayed by thoughtful and incisive comment. They're highly suspicious of intellectuals, for heaven's sake! They don't trust them. They think that intellectuals are elitists who don't respect "working people". They are swayed by extremely crude superficial impressions and they trust people who reinforce those crude impressions which they are most familiar with and most in sympathy with...

I believe this is true of perhaps 90% of the electorate, and that's why the political parties deal primarily in marketing crude and usually mythological superficial impressions rather than in communicating much about reality.

And it just so happens that the Right has been far more clever for some time in how they go about creating and marketing those superficial impressions. They do it by appealing primarily to people's fear and their greed. The Left also does that, but the Left is, by definition, badly hampered in modern America...it's practically the only society in the world where the words "liberal" and "socialist" have attained mythological connections in the average person's mind with being "evil".

None of this has been done by reasoned argument or by any form of intelligent analysis. It's been done by marketing crude stereotypes and common myths to the general public. Superficial impressions.

It's the main reason why I can't be bothered listening to most political speeches. It makes me feel downright disgusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM

...and away we go

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of Republican Convention
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:52 PM

I was actually interested in the unrevealed promise of the Candidate Palin, LH, and open to what could be learned. But it revealed itself as another loop on the same record.

BTW I regret I did not make it clear that the essay above quoting her is not my own writing, but a quotation from an essayist in Slate.

Apologies.


A