Dogs at Festival

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:41 AM

I don't take my dog to festivals for selfish reasons - I don't want the responsibility of looking after her when I could be behaving in my usual irresponsible way. It's hard enough having a 8-year old child to keep your eye on, let alone a dog!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:05 AM

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM

I say ban dogs from festivals, I'm sure they don't like it, they fight, poo and get scared by the fireworks.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:20 AM

I tried dog at a festival but I couldn't get the damned thing lit.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:25 AM

That was the idea of putting the list up, so that I could have a drink in peace.


Thanks for that list Fred. It tells people which pubs to avoid too!!

Incidentally looking at the entries for the area(s) I know, it is way out of date.

And one of them that is in - the Rockingham Arms at Wentworth, threw out the BBC Folk Club of the Year.

Still it welcomes dogs - so that's OK.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:36 AM

In my experience, the hot dogs at festivals are far more of a health hazard than real dogs.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: romany man
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:58 AM

Lets start something new, what about my ferrets they go to festivals with me, and seem to sleep through most of it, but hey i can put em in me pocket or up a trousert leg, its amazing people cant do that with dogs,

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:21 AM

At last common sense.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:27 AM

Romany Man, if your ferrets and my lurcher worked together, we'd be able to supply food for the whole festival. Everyone like rabbit pie?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:29 AM

Go for it Leveller, it makes more sense than most of dogist posts

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Sooz on holiday
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:37 AM

Our dog enjoys being with us. We go to festivals. If dogs aren't welcome, neither are we.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:49 AM

Ralphie, you forgot the Corrs. Just pronounce it in English instead of Irish...


Where's me coat...

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:50 AM

Sandra Cur?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:02 AM

Chihuahawumba?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:02 AM

Even though dogs aren't allowed at Cambridge, I've been told that a lot of dogging goes on in the bushes around the duck pond at night. Can someone explain this to me?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:06 AM

Better and better, woof

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:12 AM

If Only Dept.

Kirsty McCollie

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:22 AM

Doggie MacLean?

WOOF, WOOF!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:31 AM

Shooglebumsniffty.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:40 AM

Kate Woofby
Peat Dog Fairies
Bitches of Elswick (sorry ladies)

Aaaaaaargh!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:41 AM

Ewan MacCollie

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:45 AM

thanks for dismissing my post as a red herring, Les. I was actually trying to make a serious point.

I agree that you remove the risk of dog bites by totally banning dogs. And that does not in any way impinge on the enjoyment of people such as yourself who do not want to be anywhere near dogs at festivals anyway.

However, quite a lot of people such as myself enjoy the fact that other people take their dogs to festivals, so I would lose out by your ban, and from other posts here there are others who feel the same.

My point is, if you feel it reasonable to rule against something to remove a small risk, then there are lots of other candidates too, for things to ban. Why pick on dogs specifically? Why stop there?

Re: Sharon's point about dog mess, urine, drool, etc. Those are not the only things to end up on the grass at festivals. All kinds of food and drink and worse (spit, vomit, broken glass, rusty nails...) end up there too. Not having dogs there wouldn't stop you needing to be careful where you sit, or stop you needing to wash your hands carefully...

All other issues with noise, irritation, heat exhaustion, whether they actually want to be there or not do apply just as much to (some)children and (some) drunks as they do to (some) dogs.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM

OK, seriously then, GUEST:nado, I think that if dogs are allowed at festivals the organisers should recognise the fact and provide the necessary facilities, such as designated toilet areas (in the same way that many caravan sites do) and also make hard and fast rules as to where dogs are permitted to go. The onus, of course, would fall on the stewards to enforce the rules.

Incidentally, at the caravan site where I stayed during the Osmotherley Gathering, someone had a cat on a lead. So what about other animals at festivals?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:24 AM

Les Barker (duh...)
Pete Quinn and the London Lassies
Clan McPeke

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:33 AM

"thanks for dismissing my post as a red herring, Les. I was actually trying to make a serious point. "

Sorry this is post 223. I can't see how I have dismissed you point specifically.

I have read all the post as they have appeared and people are just making the same points over and over again. A number of us have tried to sum up what has been said, but later posters - on both sides - ignore this process.

I have never been bothered by a dog at a festival but I have only been to a couple of dozen in my life. I have been bothered by dogs with and without owners close by hundreds and hundreds of times and been biten, jumped and chased a bit and trud in more dog shit than I can count.

Remember this?

"I wonder if I could ask for your help? A child was bitten by a dog at SFF and needed seven stitches. If anyone has any views on dogs at festivals would you be so good as to post on here or the festival blog - over the coming weeks we are going to decided if we should ban them or not. Many thanks for your help."

It was the first post.

As far as I can see all that could be said has been said. I trust nobody else will post unless they have read the 223 others and either have something original to say or as is happening now something funny!

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:39 AM

Cathal McKennell

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:44 AM

How many people have spotted (?) that dog is god backwards and that Rover rhymes with Johovah?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM

I agree with Guest Not a Dog Owner yet again. Some years ago I started visiting a jazz session which was held in a rather cramped pub. I live on my own and my dog hates being left alone when I go out, so I take him with me whenever possible. After a few visits I asked the landlord and the band leader if they'd mind my bringing the dog in - offering the proviso that I'd put him back in the car if he didn't settle. Both were delighted to welcome him in and, despite the noise from the band (yes jazz bands are usually a lot louder than folk acts) he settled under the table as good as gold, stirring only when I bought him a bag of crisps or somebody stopped to stroke him.

Ben proved a huge hit with the band and session goers alike and, in the several months before circumstances forced the session to seek new premises, I never received a single adverse comment or a sideways look from anyone.

Alas, when we did move, it was to a private club with a no dogs policy, so he now has to stop in the car. Yet, despite the fact that the band has been in the new venue for about 3 or 4 years, there is never a week goes by but I get several people asking after him.

This might come as a shock to one or two Mudcatters, but dogs are actually popular with a very large section of the populace.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:49 AM

Quite agree, Les, we've done serious.
Now, let's hear it for John McHusky and Fetch, Boy and Simpson.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:55 AM

My point is, if you feel it reasonable to rule against something to remove a small risk, then there are lots of other candidates too, for things to ban. Why pick on dogs specifically? Why stop there?

You are perfectly entitled to make that point - but some festivals already ban dogs. Shrewsbury organisers - after an incident when a child was bitten - are clearly asking questions about it too.

I think Steve has a good point - let's have a special dog friendly area where all the dogs and their owners can be together - with special dog-loving stewards to look after them. After all there will be plenty of volunteers from all these dog lovers going to festivals.

All dog-owners to pitch their tents/park their caravans in this area.

Dogs allowed to wander freely in this area if the owners so wish.

People can come up and make conversation with the dogs if they so wish.

Dogs to have a season ticket for the time they are on site - same price as a person ticket to pay for fencing to mark the area and extra security when some lager lout with a boxer on a long lead needs to be asked to leave. (See previous posts from Richard Bridge)

No dogs to be left alone, at least one person to be with their own dog at all times.

All dog owners to show insurance against the possibilty of their dog causing damage to people or property and up-to-date veterinary certificates showing a clean bill of health. (After all as responsible dog owners you have this already don't you?)

Any dog causing trouble to be asked to leave immediately along with their owners.

No refunds.

What could be fairer than that?

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:57 AM

I was at a festival recently when someone trod in some dog shit. Another festival-goer who was passing said, "I just did that" and wondered why they got their nose rubbed in it.

Hey, the old ones are the best!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:06 AM

Posted without comment....

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick - PM
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM

As the owner of a large extremely well behaved labrador/Rhodesian ridgeback cross,

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick - PM
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM


Alas, when we did move, it was to a private club with a no dogs policy, so he now has to stop in the car.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:46 AM

fair point that this goes round and round. Not quite sure why I'm continuing to post but hey, passes the time.

Yes, Sandra from Shrewsbury asked a specific question triggered by a specific, tragic and unecessary incident and unsurprisingly different people have different views about it. I offered a short reply initially and only felt moved to continue the debate when it felt like a vocal few might be giving the impression that the majority felt that it would be best to ban dogs at Shrewsbury. I'd rather be vocal on the other side and give the impression that, yes, maybe people do have strong feelings about this, but not unanimously in favour of a total ban.

Dave's solution sounds almost reasonable to me. Can we also have a fenced in area for children, to keep them out of my way? And a separate one for all consumers of alcohol? Excellent, now that we're all nicely segregated I'm sure we'll have a lovely time.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM

You can insist on dog muzzles but people will ignore it.
You could suggest doggy nappies but it ain't gonna happen, you can insist all you want that people clear-up after their dogs but enough won't to make it meaningless. And you can insist that all dogs be on leads too but it is unlikely to be universally adopted.
Legally the owners are responsible but to one bitten child the legal position is irrelavent.

It is not the dogs that cause the problem. They can be controlled in various ways. But kids dashing about doing what kids do (including baiting dogs) - dogs may just react. All the fine words and insurance policies about what should happen are small comfort.

There is not a happy answer, only the draconian or the gamble or a mishmash of the two.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM

Sorry Dave. Wrong again. I have a large Ford Mondeo with plenty of room for the dog to stretch out in comfort, and he has his own water bowl in there.

By the way; "......... many of them come slobbering up to me. "He's only being friendly" they say. Not as far as I am concerned he isn't."

Strange how the behaviour of some humans provokes exactly the same reaction in me.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:56 AM

"Can we also have a fenced in area for children, to keep them out of my way?"

Our previous dog, a Staffordshire bull terrier, was a better traveller than our current dog and used to travel in a large dog crate in the back of the estate car. He also loved to go in the crate when he was at home so we put his bed in it. My daughter, who was then 3, also liked the crate and would get in and close the door. One day a visitor called, came into the kitchen and saw a small girl apparently shut in a cage……

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

GUEST,not a dog owner,

"Can we also have a fenced in area for children, to keep them out of my way?"

I think this explores the idea of the slippery slope - which we are always on or the thin end of the wedge which is always available.

Why stop at children. Are their any other groups which you would like to put elsewhere? I leave it to others to list them.

I guess what we are calling for is a variation of species -ism. Many of us are prepared to discriminate against other species by killing them, eating them or destroying their habitats and so on. Some how most of us don't do this to children. But remember this?

"I wonder if I could ask for your help? A child was bitten by a dog at SFF and needed seven stitches. If anyone has any views on dogs at festivals would you be so good as to post on here or the festival blog - over the coming weeks we are going to decided if we should ban them or not. Many thanks for your help."

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

he he nice image, theleveller.

Ever seen the big fabric tubes that Jan the Blackboard Van lady has for kids to play in at festivals? She ties kids into them with a knot at each end and they bounce around looking kind of like lumpy animated sausages? I've always had an image of her, Hansel & Gretel witch-like, collecting them all up at the end of the day and hanging the sausage children up on big hooks inside her van and driving them away to her gingerbread cottage in the dark forest...

No offence intended to Jan mind you, she does a great job entertaining the kids at the festivals she's booked at. It's just my overactive imagination... :)

lets please keep Shrewsbury as a festival that has something for everybody, that's what I reckon!!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:22 AM

er... wrote my post before I saw yours Les so my final sentence there wasn't intended as an answer to your post as such...

... but my sentiment does remain the same - saddened as I am by the incident that happened at Shrewsbury this year I would still, as a punter, who is sometimes there with small children so most of my 'keeping kids seperate' comments were facetiousness (is that a word?), prefer that people were still allowed to bring dogs to the festival. That said, I would be happy if the controls on them were more stringent (i.e. short leads at all times, certain areas where they are not allowed to go, owners and dogs asked to leave if any sign of irresponsible owner behaviour...). That is where I'd be happy to sit on the gamble/draconian sliding scale.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: romany man
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:25 AM

Leveller, ferrets lurchers jack russells all ready to supply the pot. just as an aside its me job as well to do pest control where poisons gas and guns cant be used, should get the anti somethings going on another thread, oh well off to work. rabbit an squirrel stews good.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,not a dog owner
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM

mm..mmm... sounds tasty... I've never eaten squirrel but hear it's nice. Rabbit always goes down well :)

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM

I've spotted something.......FolkieDave & Steve Shaw aren't all that keen on dogs!

BTW:

Old Blind Dogs?
Glory strokes ?
Eric Beagle.......

Would they be playing Spaniel Hill?

Paul

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM

Strange how the behaviour of some humans provokes exactly the same reaction in me.

Somehow I can't imagine humans slobbering over you very often Fred - but then, there is no accounting for taste.

As for the idea of a separate dog area - well some festivals have separate areas; quiet and noisy for example. So nothing special there.

Some festivals have specialist care for children. So again there is nothing special about it.

specific, tragic and unecessary incident and unsurprisingly different people have different views about it.

I doubt people have differing views about whether a child at a festival should be bitten by a dog. People have differing views about what should be done about it.

We learn of three children bitten by dogs at festivals and a miscarriage from this thread alone, one of which was my own daughter. One child bitten by a dog is too many as far as I am concerned.

The easy way to stop it is to ban dogs at folk festivals - or as I suggested have a separate area a long way away specifically for dogs. A place where dog lovers can live and love their dogs to their heart's content and the rest of us can get on with our lives without being bothered or bitten by them.

Surely with this specialist area responsible dog owners wouldn't mind paying a little extra to have your dog with you at a festival?

And leaving if it disturbed people? By barking for example.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:02 AM

No objection to working dogs, assistance dogs, guard dogs, farm dogs for example - just don't want so-called pets (the ones that bite children) at folk festivals.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

Personally, I've no truck with dogs that bite anywhere, not just at festivals. I've no truck with their owners, either. I've owned several dogs of so-called 'vicious' breeds – an English bull terrier, a Staffie and a bull mastiff – and they never bit my children or any other people, or even other dogs, despite provocation. What's more, they were all cat-friendly. There are a couple of reasons for this: first of all I vetted the breeders to ensure they came from non-vicious parentage and, secondly, I trained them properly. My current dog, half Staffie and half whippet, came from a rescue centre but we made sure that she was both child- and cat-friendly before adopting her (she is, unfortunately, a little too sofa-friendly).

Sorry if I sound holier-than-thou, but it's simply a question of responsibility – if you own a dog, it's your responsibility. No 'ifs' or 'buts'.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM

half Staffie and half whippet

Mmmm... sounds delicious. I'll have one of those please, with chips and a side order of mushy peas.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:58 AM

I don't how significant this is but I saw a cherub in a T shirt at Shrewsbury with this on the front:

"So many kittens - so few recipes"!

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:03 PM

Soz, me cookieless above LiC.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:03 PM

"Mmmm... sounds delicious."

I think you'd find my Whipstaff a bit on the tough side. I've always found poodles a lot more palatable.

Subject: RE: Dogs at Festival
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:08 PM

mmm... sounds delicious. I'll have one of those please, with chips and a side order of mushy peas.

Where's Moor and Coast when you need them?

And change my mushy peas to avocado dip.