Ballad Opera

Subject: Ballad Opera
From: Jon Boden
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM

I'm interested in looking into examples of the Ballad Opera form. Does anyone know of any recently composed ballad operas (other than the Transports) that have been staged in some form? Many thanks, Jon

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM

How recent is recent? Kurt Weill rewrote the Beggar's Opera as The Threepenny Opera, and Ralph Vaughan Williams wrote Hugh the Drover.

Could we count musicals such as Mama Mia! which taken popular songs and set them into stories?

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:53 AM

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: GUEST,Helen
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:56 AM

Sorry - hit the wrong button.

Mick Ryan has been involved in writing several in collaboration with various people - one about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, one about emigration to USA (Pilgrim fathers era, I think but not 100% sure.) Also 'Babbacombe Lee' - Fairport Conventions tribute to 'the man they couldn't hang'.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:02 AM

We did something this time last year in Rhuthin but we decided to call it a 'masque'. It was a composed work but was based on two Welsh folk songs - Ffarwel i Blwy Llangywer and Marwnad yr Ehedydd. The overall work told the story of Coch Bach y Bala or The Little Turpin who was a famous kleptomaniac at the turn of the last century. It was performed as a 'promenade piece' in the old Ruthin Gaol which is now a museum (the audience progressed through the Gaol and got bits of the masque at various points.) The accoustics in the main cell block were out of this world!

Coincidentally I was just reading up on old Welsh ballad operas yesterday for a Radio 4 interview. They wanted some background on "Deck the Halls" and the tune was used in a couple of ballad operas in the 1700s.

sian

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:29 AM

The Tolpuddle one was (I believe) largely the work of Graham Moore and he followed it with 'The Last of England' which was based on the large scale, often parish sponsored, emigrations in the years after the Napoleonic Wars. It's apparently now been merged with the Tolpuddle one.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

The shows 7:84 and Wildcat did in the 1970s and 1980s were more or less ballad operas. They got the idea from "Oh What a Lovely War", which got the idea from Brecht and Weill, who got it from the original 18th century ballad operas.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

We've* just been doing Beware the Fylde Coast Sands which I see as sort of Ballad Opera. There's been two performances so far this summer, one on-board the Fleetwood trawler Jacinta, the other as part of this year's Fylde Festival. The libretto (some 20 songs in all) was entirely composed by Ron Baxter, writing very much in the traditional idiom (and a Kiplo-Bellamist to boot) to an overall narrative & conceptual arc, albeit essentially episodic in nature. Linking the songs was a spoken word narrative, briefly contextualising the various episodes which covered the period from the Engish Civil War to the wreck of The Riverdance in January this year.

* The Wyre-light Orchestra comprising members of Spitting on a Roast (Mikes France & Fairclough, Tony Mason & Alan Middleton) augmented by Ross Campbell, myself (Sedayne) and Rachel McCarron (who sang her own song about Riverdance...) with slide projection by John Webb. Ron and Ross, as Red Duster, regularly perform themed shows of a more intimate nature dealing with various aspects of the Lancashire maritime.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:02 PM

By the way, it might be worth noting that we had £5000 for our masque from PRSF. It might be that if anyone else was interested in commissioning a work, they should make enquiries in that direction.

sian

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: BB
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:56 PM

Mick Ryan's work is probably your best bet - he's been writing and producing shows for some years now.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM

I'm with Manitas on this--Mama Mia! would certainly be a valid contemporary example of ballad opera--the latest, and perhaps greatest manifestation of this art is Xanadu, which uses the deliciously bad 80's roller disco movie musical as a theatrical springboard for all manner of buffoonery and lampoonery.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: JohnB
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:58 PM

We will Rock You based on Queen's music actualy rocks if you are a Queen fan, although the storyline is a little "hoaky"
On the folk music side, someone from the east coast (Canada that is) did a "Marco Polo Suite" (the ship not the guy). I have a cassette copy of it somewhere.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: maeve
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:42 AM

That someone is the gifted composer and musician Jim Stewart.

About Jim Stewart

About the Marco Polo Suite

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Hawker
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:52 AM

Are the Cornwall Songwriters shows such as   Cry Of Tin Unsung Heores and Cornish Lads the sort of thing you mean?

Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Hawker
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM

All excellent shows by the way!
=)

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 12:42 PM

To be a "ballad opera" the play would have to be satirical, using contemporary popular music as a vehicle--dramatic stories that are told with folk music would be"folk operas". It could even be argued that folk music would preclude the "Ballad Opera" label, simply because folk music is not the popular music of this place in time.

Given that, it's all musical theatre, where the differences between satire and drama are often blurred. As far as the music goes, differences between musical genres are generally superficial--anyone remember "Hot Mikado"?

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

Submitted for your consideration:

Three Little Maids from Regular Mikado
Three Little Maids from Hot Mikado

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Hawker
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM

It would appear from that, having looked up The Transports that this too is infact a Folk Opera then, rather than a ballad opera? Tolpuddle man must also I think come into the Folk Opera Category?
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

Really, kids! I think we're okay letting the late Mr Bellamy call the Transports a ballad opera, now...

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:39 PM

For what it's worth, the Transports website calls it a ballad opera, Wikipedia calls it a Folk Opera--my points, easily missed, perhaps, are two--first that a "ballad opera" is a specifically satirical work, while the more overarching term, :"Folk Opera" includes dramatic works, and second that, given that most people aren't aware of the distinctions, and most writers, don't strictly follow them, it matters not.

Even still, I find it rather tedious to be referred to as a child for making this point.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:05 PM

M.Ted

that a "ballad opera" is a specifically satirical work

Really? By whose definition? On what authority? I've never heard this before.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM

The term "Ballad Opera" was first applied to Mr. Gay's "Beggar's Opera", which has ever been the measuring stick for such things. Don't believe me? Ask Helga--Wikipedia article on Ballad Opera

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:49 AM

Interesting article. The author also suggests:

In the twentieth century folk singers have produced musical plays with folk or folk-like songs called "ballad operas". Alan Lomax, Pete Seeger, Burl Ives, and others recorded The Martins and the Coys in 1944, and Peter Bellamy and others recorded The Transports in 1977. The first of these is in some ways connected to the "pastoral" form of the ballad opera, and the latter to the satiric Beggar's Opera type, but in all they represent yet further reinterpretations of the term

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:59 AM

" in all they represent yet further reinterpretations of the term"

A further point, and that is that the balance of satire and drama can be shifted decisively by the manner of performance--we have all seen droll performances of "dramatic" material, and there have been, perhaps generally less successful, "dramatic" performances of light and ironic material--so the lines are neither firmly nor permanently drawn. Got that yet?

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Cats
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:08 AM

Do 'The Cry of Tin' and 'Cornish Lads', both about the history of the Cornish Ttn and copper mines and 'Unsung Heroes' about the gardeners from the Lost Gardens of Heligan, all by Cornwall Songwriters, fit the bill? All are based on the radio ballads type format and are songs strubng together with dialogue. All excellent shows.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 04:48 AM

I would seriously doubt there is any defining absolute for A Ballad Opera any more than there is a defining absolute for Ballad or Opera. The Beggar's Opera is not The Transports; both are Ballad Operas. Folk Opera? What feck sort of cultural carnage is this? Jane Eyre is not Trainspotting; both are novels.

Anyhoo, it all would appear to start with Adam de la Halle, whose legendary pastourelle, the Jeu de Robin and Marion was the first in terms of possible opera or even musical (please note: The Wicker Man is not West Side Story; both are musicals) or even comic / ballad opera. Incidentally, for our take on Child #102 - The Birth of Robin Hood on John Barleycorn Reborn we used one of de la Halle's Robin melodies.

Something extra very special meanwhile:

Le Jeu de Robin et Marion

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:50 AM

Kiplo-Bellamist

What a lovely definition. I wonder if it can be further sub-divided: revisionist and traditionalist Kiplo-Bellamists, for example. Or crypto-Kiplo-Bellamists.

Spleen Cringe (neo-Bellamist-Pardonite tendency)

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:26 AM

M.Ted

the lines are neither firmly nor permanently drawn. Got that yet?

Well, that's what I thought in the first place which is why I was a bit surprised by your assertion that 'a "ballad opera" is a specifically satirical work' which was not supported by the reference you gave which said 'these "ballad operas" were antithetical to the more satirical variety'.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

I began one about 20 years ago, using the melody from Tom Joad for the intro song. The problem I ran into was that the song told the story too completely and obviated the need of the opera.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM

Porgy and Bess was introduced as a "folk opera" in it's earlier Broadway days.

Kurt Weill had "Down In the Valley" as an operatic form.

Actually, Grapes of Wrath might make an operatic libretto. Woody's Tom Joad
encapsulated the story but there are characters in that play that would lend themselves to
being fleshed out for the stage.

"Green Grow the Lilacs" by Lynn Riggs had an interpolated score in which authentic-styled
singers were used. When Rodgers and Hammerstein got ahold of it, they made a musical
of the Riggs play which became "Away We Go" and then changed to "Oklahoma".

There used to be outdoor pageants done in North Carolina that used music (many ballads).

Micheal Smith ("The Dutchman") has written folk-based musical productions in Chicago.

The term is ambiguous unless specifically applied to The Beggars Opera but there are many
musical productions that use folk and ballad themes.

A musical opera using just ballads probably doesn't exist. Obviously the Beggar's Opera contained songs that
were not ballads. Although the Moritat from Three Penny Opera was a ballad, the show contained all kinds
of songs.

Billy Grimes (The Rover) I believe was made into a musical production.

   There was one I heard years ago called "The Poor Sailor" or something like that
using variations of "Blow The Man Down"

There is Earl Robinson's "Lonesome Train" and a production called "Ballad for Americans".
These might fall under the category of oratorios, though.

Earl Robinson and Waldo Salt did an opera called "Sandhog" about the tunneling of the subway system in NY using folk sources.

Eudora Welty's "The Robber Bridgegroom" was made into a musical and borrowed from folk sources.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: GUEST,julia
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:35 PM

Some might be interested in my production "Grand Design" which I made from the true story of Ulster Scots immigrants, circa 1740, who are wrecked on Grand Manan Island in New Brunswick Canada and abandoned by the captain and crew. 10 women and an infant survive the winter on the island and are rescued by Passamaquoddy Indians in April who paddle 130 miles to an English fort in Pemaquid Maine to facilitate their rescue.
I used some period traditional music, both Scots Irish and Native American, as well as writing some in the appropriate style.
See the website www.the-grand-design.org for audio and video clips.

cheers- Julia

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM

Nobody's mentioned "Crab Wars" by the Kipper Family yet

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 06:38 AM

In 1964 an Oxford student theatre group wrote and performed a ballad/folk opera - call it what you will - entitled "Hang Down Your Head and Die". It was a sometimes serious, sometimes comic, production which looked at the question of capital punishment in a format similar to Joan Littlewood's "Oh What a Lovely War!" After a successful run in Oxford, the production transferred for most of the Easter vacation to a London theatre, where it got good reviews and did good business.

So far as I know, it has never been revived on stage, but the script may well still exist, and many of the songs are certainly recoverable. For further information, contact Mudcatter Greg Stephens, who arranged some of the traditional songs, wrote some of the new ones, and also played in the pit band.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:46 AM

Mention of the Kipper Family reminds me of Trunch. We were there earlier in the year on our Norfolk jaunt, taking a look at the parish church of St Botolph which has one of the finest of the few remaining pre-Reformation font covers in the country along with other wonders.

Whilst on solemn Bellamist pilgrimage to Wells-next-the-Sea, I had the idea of a shop dedicated to exclusively to Norfolk dairy produce. It's name? Butter and Cheese and All, which I'd learned especially, and not without some small singularity (see HERE for the full story) for our trip, fully hoping to find a suitable singaround, but had to content myself with an empty church at Cley. Maybe it's been done; we did pass one called Normal For Norfolk, reminding the missus of a nursing anecdote concerning the doctor who would write NFN in the files of one of his more demanding patients.

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Mr Fox
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

Anybody mention Taffy Thomas' production of Bob Pegg's 'The Shipbuilder', yet?

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:16 AM

Taffy also produced The Transports, didn't he?

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:32 AM

We (The Ram Company) are putting on Waltzers and Wonders, the Wakes is in Town for the very first time at the Derby Festival of Traditional Arts on Saturday 25th October.

Most of the material was written by Ian Carter more than 20 years ago and has lain unused. We debated whether to call it an opera of sorts, including folk or ballad opera. It contains songs, some of which are ballads, and narrative pieces which describe a story of the travelling fairgrounds. But it's not presented as a play.

More, including sound clips at www.ramcompany.co.uk

Howard Mitchell

Subject: RE: Ballad Opera
From: Jon Boden
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:20 AM

Thanks for that. That's all really useful. Jon