BS: What's the matter with Canada?

Subject: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:54 PM

A scathing article from Slate.

I hope y'all can do something about Harper.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM

Who is this Harper guy anyway ???

:)


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:57 PM

ok ... all joking aside.

Harper was up in Fredricton N.B. on the weekend campaigning for the upcoming Canadian Federal election.

Take a look at this foto. You would never see this in the U.S. of A. ... notice there are no Secret Service guys all around him. I was told by the person who took this foto there were a few RCMP guys around (of course), but even they were talking and joking with the people on the street.

Harper in the street

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:16 PM

Canada's system of government was historially based on a two party system. It was a system that allowed a political party to gain power and overrule objection from the other party. At some point they would suffer a defeat in the polls and the second party would rule as did the other one. Patronage and corruption was what counted without much objection as the second pig waited its turn at the trough.
Now there are several parties but the older two have never learned to share power with them. The Parliament no longer is where government business is carried out because governments want to operate in secrecy. Elected members are only trained seals who must comply with every wish and whim of their leader or they are disciplined, but minority governments keep the power within Parliament and keep bastards like Harper in check. Even with a so called majority of members in Parliament the party may have much less that a majority of the popular vote. In that way we can end up with an elected dictatorship and that is Harper's goal. There is danger that he could get his wish even though most of the electorate would sooner see him in Hell than in Ottawa!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM

"Italians and Israelis may have learned how to function under minority governments, but Canadians are still working on it"

?

Minority government is not at all new to Canada.

But, if you lead one, you can't function for ever as if you have a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:57 PM

Well Lester Pearson learned how to function back in the 60's and with Tommy Douglas holding the balance of power we had perhaps the best government in Canada's history. It gave us medicare and a national pension plan that would be the envy of the world. Harper though is too domineering to consider such diplomacy and instead tries to bully his opponents. If he ever gains uncontrolled power he may try to dismantle or privatize both.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM

The most amusing thing I saw in the article was the Liberals being described as "leftists".

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM

Canada has a three party system. The Bloc Quebecois keeping the system civil.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:23 PM

Pretty good article. But the Liberals are not a "leftist" party, they are a "center" party...one that is badly disorganized at the present time and losing its strength to 3 different smaller parties...the NDP, the Greens, and the Bloc Quebecois. The NDP and the Greens could be described as somewhat "leftist".

The ONLY truly "rightist" party in Canada is the Conservatives under Harper and their base of support in the populace is, at best, only about 40%, I would think.

40% can win a majority government, though, if the other 60% get split between 3 different parties! Therein lies the problem.

The part of the article that summed it up best was this:

"The Conservatives may not represent the views of most Canadians, but with four parties fighting for the left-wing vote, the Conservatives might win simply by sliding up the middle."

That is Harper's objective. If he achieves it, things will get considerably worse in Canada, because the government will have been hijacked by a minority viewpoint, and not with good results.

The Liberals used to effectively represent the broad centre of Canadian viewpoints. They lost cohesion due to their own internal mismanagement, their sense of entitlement, and their general arrogance, and the fox is now in the henhouse.

This Conservative fox does not represent the will or wishes of the majority of Canadians, but if the Conservatives get the majority government they are seeking, then the will and wishes of the majority of Canadians won't count for jack shit, because a majority government IS, in effect, a limited dictatorship (until the next election).

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

""""""""" Ditto LH!
Of course the answer is proportional representation based on popular vote but who among this bunch of bastards wants to deplete their power just to be democratic? Certainly not the big two!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM

Certainly not the big three.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM

Aha! And therein lies the problem, Sandy. The Liberals and Conservatives have no intention of honestly sharing power with the smaller parties, because it would mean giving up some of what they already have.

Self-interest on the part of those in power is what can kill the heart of any nation when it gets way out of hand.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:53 PM

Well Q, it all seens to depend on who thinks that they will gain or lose. With this attitude the biggest loser is the electorate!
All that being said and only by degree it is a better system than in the USA. We have, at least never, had a president elected by his brother. The saddest part though is that both countries raise the flag of democracy to the world, ignoring improvements that could make it a truth! A fine example of political greed and corruption!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

The solution to it all will be guns I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: bankley
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:10 AM

"Some of us are good with the music, some are born to the gun
We all keep doing whatever we can, under the insurgent sun"


bullets not ballots ? sounds like Bolivia these days... trouble is the gov't has the big, smarter guns and lots of them, and lots of practice... and if there be any civil emergency that the uniforms can't handle, we have just signed an agreement ( without parliamentary debate) with the US, that allows either country to send 'forces' across the border (if requested) to assist with the 'response'.... sounds okay when we're talking about natural disasters.... but the authorities didn't really specify.... so, one call from Ottawa to Washington, and the mountain brigade from Fort Drum NY., could secure Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa within a few days.....scary thought, but it's already been thought out at the higher levels....so we'll just keep you distracted by bird poop on Dionne, the PMs warm fuzzy TV ads, and the new NHL song contest.... and by the way, how much is the Afghan mission costing us, to the closest billion please.... pass the syrup

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: leftydee
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

People are still surprized when conservatives fuck up an economy?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:36 PM

I think that the Canadian problem is two fold. There is no truly national Party and there is no leftist Party. Both the Liberals and the NDP are centre line parties. Stephen Harper is leader of a very right wing party and, unfortunately he will probably win a majority in the next election. I see the conservatives as being the old Reform Party and it is therefore a Party with no philosophical grasp of the nation as a whole. I do think that Liberals understand Canada in a way that the oter parties do not, however, they have not been able to articulate this, especially in the west whre many see the country as a business and not as a nation. The NDP are a self righteous bunch really and don't get it at all. Sheep in sheeps clothing.
   After this election Canada will be a very different place and I, for one, will be very sorry to that happen.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM

Interesting comments, Hilo. There used to be a national party. It was called "the Liberals". But it's not a national party anymore. There used to be a moderate, centre, small-c conservative party also which could serve reasonably well as a national party when elected. It was called "the Progressive Conservatives". That party is gone. The present Conservative Party is a radical Reaganite neocon party that is utterly out of touch with the traditional aspirations of a majority of Canadians...but they are profiting from the fact that the majority of Canadians have no national party to vote for anymore and are splitting their vote between Liberals, NDP, Greens, and Bloc Quebecois.

I agree with your assessment of the NDP. They are out of touch.

The Conservatives know exactly what they're doing...the only trouble is, what they are doing is wrong...and they do not represent the majority of people in this country. They represent their corporate friends in Big Business.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM

I agree that what Harper is doing is wrong. But I am afraid that he will get enough votes to keep doing it. What I don't understand is why Canadians are allowing this to happen. The Reform Party evolved from the manufactured gripe of Western Alienation, the current Conservatives are the result of that movement. I believe that the West, particularly Alberta sees the Liberals as an "Eastern" party rather than as a national one and the Liberals must remind people what is at stake here..Canada as a social democracy is disappearing and Canadians seem reluctant to do anything about it. Why is that ?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:52 PM

"What I don't understand is why Canadians are allowing this to happen"

why ... because people are content and living in a sense of false security .... unable to comprehend the ever changing world around them ... unwilling to take a stand on their own 2 feet and to take democracy into their own hands

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

Well, there's another problem here, Hilo. A lot of people hate the Liberals over various past gripes and would much rather vote NDP. A lot of other people are fed up with the NDP and would rather vote Green.

Now...all those people share one thing in common: they won't vote for the Conservatives.

But how do you get NDP supporters or Green Supporters to vote Liberal if they like the NDP or the Green Party better?

And why would they?

The only conceivable solution I can see is for the NDP and the Greens and the Liberals to form a single party....but they won't do that.

So it ain't gonna happen.

The only other conceivable solution I can see is that the Conservatives will finally create so much damage that their support among their 40% of the people will be badly eroded and then they'll finally get voted out.

That will take awhile.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:27 PM

Grohman Knives of Pictou , Nova Scotia produces some of the finest high quality knives to be found on Earth. Grohman Knives is located in the constituency of Peter MacKay. Peter MacKay is Canada's minister of defense. Grohman has supplied knives to the Canadian military for many years. Grohman has a problem because the Chinese are cloning a lower quality version of their product. The Canadian military has put up for tender the knife supply and guess what? The tender went to an importer bringing in the Chinese junk. These are specialty knives for paratroopers and SAR-Techcs, designed to cut away a failed chute. These brave souls now must rely on a lower grade product in an emergency situation to save MacKays department a few bucks. It seems that he does't give a shit about his constituents or his troops as he not only allowed it but defended it today on a CTV interview.
Ask again "What's the matter with Canada?"
IT'S BEING RUN BY IDIOTS AND ARSEHOLES!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM

It's being run by people for whom money is always the first concern and the final arbiter. Not results, not public health, not having a well-equipped military....money.

There's your problem. These are not "idiots", these are people operating according to a faulty premise: that money matters more than anything else does.

That is an idiotic premise, of course. ;-) Okay...maybe they are idiots, but not in their own terms. Arseholes? Well...possibly. Traitors to their own land and people? Very possibly.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:49 PM

Received from another Montreal friend.

"Newfoundland Fisherman


A boat was docked in a tiny Newfoundland
fishing village.


A tourist from Toronto complimented the
Newfie fisherman on the quality of his fish
and asked how long it took him to catch them.
'Not very long', answered the Newfoundlander.

'But then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?' asked the
Torontonian
The Newfie explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs
and those of his family.
The Torontonian asked, 'But what do you do with the rest of your time?'

'I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take an afternoon
nap with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends,
have a few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs... I have a full
life.'


The Torontonian interrupted, 'I have an MBA from Queen's University and I
can help you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then
sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger
boat.'

'And after that?' asked the Newfie.

'With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one
and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers.
Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can then negotiate
directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You
can then leave this little village and move to St John's, Halifax, or even
Toronto
'How long would that take?' asked the Newfie.

'Twenty, perhaps twenty-five
years,' replied the Torontonian.

'And after that?'

'Afterwards?
Well my Friend, That's when it gets really interesting,' answered the
Torontonian, laughing. 'When your business gets really big, you can
start selling stocks and make millions!'

'Millions?
Really? And after that?' said the Newfie.

'After that you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast,
sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take an afternoon nap
with your wife and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends.'

And the moral is:

Know where you're going in life... you may already be there!"

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: rehab11
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:14 PM

Tommy Douglas, was a man of God, he just could not take it anymore. HE saw people suffering and knew he had to run for office. Pearson also gave us our own flag which we only got because so many people signed I spent days getting people to sign in 1961 at 13. I feel people do not realize the power we have if we get together if harper does try to f it up   I Will FIND the ENERGY to stop him in his tracks one way or another.

dee

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM

Pearson was a diplomat; Douglas was a saint. Their ilk is lacking today! I was all for the new flag except I wanted the blue "sea to sea" bars!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:28 AM

Hey! I love Canada, except for the République du Québec.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:46 AM

Hey, a lot of good songs, good food and great people in Québec.

Lots of information here:
Tourisme

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:55 AM

I was not for the new flag back then. ;-) Why? Well, I already knew the old Red Ensign very well as a child, and I loved it deeply. I could see no good reason why it was not an excellent flag for Canada and why it should not be retained. I still love it to this day, and I don't much care for the new flag, because I think it looks kind of like a gas station logo or a grocery chain logo or something along that line.

Mind, you, it's not a bad flag as flags go...so I'm not offering extreme criticism of it or anything, I just like the old Red Ensign better and I like the deeper shade of red on the old Red Ensign better. Also, it has a symbol for the French on it, a fleur-de-lis, as well as symbols for the Irish, English, and Scots on the same shield, and I like that as well. It has no symbol for Native people...that was something they didn't think to do at the time.

The new flag is a single generic national symbol of a Maple Leaf, which is fine, I guess...but it seems to me that it would be better if there was a third color in it too, probably blue...something there to give the French part of Canada some symbolic recognition.

I'm English-Scottish Canadian by heritage, by the way. I will never stop loving the Red Ensign because I knew it in my childhood. I never looked upon it as meaning that we were a dependency of Great Britain, rather that we were traditional friends of Great Britain and participating members of the British Commonwealth...but fully independent in our own right.

I did not feel we needed a new flag to assert our independence. Pearson did feel so. So I disagreed with Mr Pearson on that one matter, although I think well of him in general terms.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:12 AM

"Hey! I love Canada, except for the République du Québec."

I love all of it. Was born and raised in Quebec.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:23 AM

Good to hear, Peace. I love all of it too. Whereabouts in Quebec were you raised?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:25 AM

Montreal and Weir. Until I was 16, then I left home.

Heck, LH, you know Quebec. Good people f--ked up by policies, politics and governments.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:31 AM

Yeah. In my experience there are good people everywhere. You just have to go there, get to know them, and you find out that most of them are good people. It's politics itself that is the problem, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:36 AM

I'm with you, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:52 AM

Quebec has probably changed but when I went there in the '80s I was not well received.

I pulled out a US $10 bill to pay for some food in a shopping center in Lac Megantic. It was probably worth $15 Canadian then. the cashier held it up a screeched Dix, Dix, as if I had pulled out a switchblade but eventually she took the money.

Maybe it was the shorts and the Hawaiian shirts my Wife and I were wearing.

We noticed all the food containers had French on one side and English on the other. A box of cereal had Smurfs cereal on one side and Les Stroumphs on the other.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM

Being a country divided by two languages, all products must be labeled in both French and English.
To most of us who have just one language, this may cause brief confusion at the grocery- depending on which side of the can faces out on the shelf-

Is it Chaudrée palourdes du Maine, or New England clam chowder?

Is it Chaudrée de poulet et de mais, or Chicken corn chowder?

Of course both bear the name Campbell's.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM

I hope Canada doesn't go the way of the current US administration.
A Bush/McCain Canada is another disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

Regarding the French/English language labelling on all our stuff...most English-language Canadians just ignore the French part, and I would assume for the French-language Canadians it's the other way around, but I had a Pakistani girlfriend for a time, and she would deliberately pronounce the French words in an exaggerated English phonetic style just for fun. This resulted in horrible mispronunciations of the French words...and we'd both laugh.

Beans, for instance, became "har-i-cots", whereas peanuts were "ar-a-chides". Just pronounce it exactly as if it were an English word. I hope no French people ever overheard her doing this, they would have been pretty disgusted. ;-)

My girlfriend had utterly no comprehension of the French language, as should be quite clear from the above, but she did find French labelling handy for this odd form of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:07 PM

In Alberta, the voters are strongly conservative; A Bush-Palin victory is seen as best for our petroleum industry and agribusiness, and for continued support of NAFTA.
Obama reeks of plunging into the unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:04 PM

Byelingamal labelling!!! Ohhhhh... not to get started on that eh!!

Of course, as I hail from Canuckistan's ONLY oficially bilingual province, apart from Newfoundland (insert tasteless Newfie joke here), je pas %^*%^*. Flip it for the translation.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM

"Obama reeks of plunging into the unknown."

Better the devil ya don't know than the sonuvabitch ya do!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:26 PM

I do not understand how 7-9 TRILLION dollars of debt makes people think that staying with the same type of administration and administrative policies will help anyone.

And NAFTA be damned!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM

Damned? I got another few words.

Speaking of unfair trade... did you see McKay peddling on CBC over the Chinese knives in his own riding? What a twit! And, he dances over to Afghanistan and gives $18M to a school while NS kids will freeze their arses off with mobile classrooms in January... suppose some of his buddies will lease them to the province?

Arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

The report on the cost of the Afghanistan fiasco to Canadians will be released very soon. Gnu, we should have invested in armaments years back. We'd be filthy rich today. Well, filthy anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM

Yes. The news media is saying that Stevie One is treading thin ice releasing the report as the "war" (arrgghhhh) is "unpopular" (2X).

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM

Sorry Sawzaw that your greenbacks were not well recieved! Quebec like most other areas of Canada usually welcomes American cash. The only thing that I don't like is that the denonimations all look the same. Except for northern Maine and DisneyWorld it is hard to pass Canadian money in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM

They accept Canadian Tire money at par, Sandy.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM

Well, Canada makes a little out of selling military hardware. Hard to find current figures, and sales to the U. S. are not reported.
$678 million worth sold in 2002, not including U. S.
Guesstimates are $2 billion in sales to U. S. (various bloggers- data are not released by the government).

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM

Anyone want to buy a few slightly used British subs? Guaranteed not to sink.(as long as they are kept in drydock) Sea King choppers going cheap as well.
Did anyone ever notice that you often see Bush flying in a military chopper but you never see Harper in one? Wonder why??

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM

Bush doesn't invite him?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:33 PM

"you never see Harper in one? Wonder why??"

Not enough spin?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:09 PM

Unlike USA, Canadains are unified (outside Quebec, that is),
We call it pop


http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/308-the-pop-vs-soda-map/

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:15 PM

In the past Candian dollars were worth around $.65 so they were not well received in the US. I have seen signs along the interstate saying Canadian dollars accepted here.

When we were down in Old Mehico, their eyes lit up when you pulled out a dollar.

At the Maine / Canadian border. People were streaming out of Canada to shop at a huge Walmart.

Likewise along the Mexican border, Mexicans were streaming in to buy what? Pampers of all things. I also saw ancient battered Mexican pick up trucks with cardboard piled as high as it could go, headed back to the border. I think they use it to build houses there.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:56 PM

In 1956, the Canadian dollar was at $1.09 U. S.; ups and downs typical of all currencies. Those big Walmarts are on both sides of the border, unfortunately.
Anyone who has used Pampers with kids knows how expensive their use is, and goes where they are cheapest.

Mexico, like many other countries emerging into a globalized economy, has many poor that tend to be bypassed by the growing middle class. NAFTA will be important in bringing North American economies together.

And that cardboard is worth money, even here in Canada, for use in recycled products. It should never go to the landfill dump, as it so often does in the United States of Waste (and here, too, to be truthful).

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:34 PM

In the 80's there were no Walmarts in Canada or Mexico.

Here in the US there is usually a separate pick up of recyclables every week.

At the landfill, there are separate places to dump cardboard and other recyclables. Businesses usually have free dumpsters provided to them for cardboard. They have narrow slots to keep people from stuffing anything else into the cardboard collection dumpster.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:16 AM

We have pretty much the same thing going here in Ontario with the recyclables.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM

Recycling is now available in much of North America; my point was an objection to the sneering attitude toward Mexicans collectiing cardboard for resale.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: bankley
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:23 PM

guess what... we are already heavily invested in the arms trade.. hundreds of millions from the CPP., and also big tabacco ($200 m.)

do as we say ..not as we do... here detonate this and let's light something up.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

Yeah, that's right, Bankley.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM

My view is that Harper has seen the traction a Bush Administration has received on a populist level in 2000 and 2004 and wants to copy that. He may have his hands in the pockets of
some notable US corporations as well.

I don't really think Canadians want another Bush. Then there's the old authoritarian
philosophy that in the interest of creating a "greater good", it's ok to lie and cheat.
I imagine that some Canadian's subscribe to this world view as they do here in the states.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:43 AM

"... in the interest of creating a "greater good", it's ok to lie and cheat."

In Canada its OK to lie and cheat if it financially benefits your family. We learned it from the Chinese.

diana is running for cover.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 01:24 AM

In politics it's okay to lie and cheat...if you get away with it. Also in business.

These things are true everywhere, not just in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

What I don't understand is why the Liberal Green Shift plan is not being more widely discussed. It seems to be an essential issue that we all take climate change seriously and it should be the main focus of this election in Canada. I realize that the Liberals have not done a good job of explaining this plan but there is a lot of info on it and I am amazed that people have not informed themselves regarding this.
Perhaps one of the things that is "wrong with Canada", as with many democracies, is that citizens do not fully engage themselves in the process.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:03 PM

Green shift plan is way too complicated for average people to understand - like me for instance, and although everyone seems to know that we need to address climate change and new clean energy sources- most people just want cheaper gas prices for their cars now and are simply not ready to seriously tackle that issue in this election. We are in for a Conservative dictatorship and hard times for many social issues including funding for the arts, health care, climate change - many programs to be cut in favour of tax cuts to business and oil companies over the next few years. The same political opportunist cronies that ruined the Ontario economy under Mike Harris will be in charge of Canada's economy and social programs. We will be turning back the clock instead of moving forward - too bad. The Liberals unfortunately deserve to be shot down again because of their past corruption when in power and ineptitude in voting for important issues in parliament and also electing the wrong guy as leader of the party to win over Canadians in this election. I've seen this all before with the conservative Brian Mulroney government - and in a few years if and when Harper really messes things up and Canadians get totally fed up with government ineptitude, we'll throw them out of power once again. The beat goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 02:00 PM

Sounds about right to me, Arnie.

Ontario has never really recovered from what Mike Harris's Conservatives did to it. He was the only Ontario premier I can every recall who inspired graffiti here and there on buildings suggesting that he should be killed. That sort of thing is very unusual in Canada.

Hilo, I think that most citizens do not fully engage themselves in the process because they have lost faith that any of the larger political parties will really represent them once elected.

The past record suggests to me that their loss of faith in that respect is fully justified.

Political parties do not end up serving the public once elected. They end up serving the major financial forces in this country which fund them and get them into power, because the people in charge of those major financial forces are the personal friends and peers of the politicians themselves.

Again, like the $ySStem in the USA, it's a closed loop...one in which the general public, frankly, has little effective input. Their vote is not an exercising of choice, it is a rubber stamp on a foregone conclusion.

People sense this instinctively at a gut level, therefore they are losing interest in participating in what has become mostly an empty charade...a pretence of genuinely representative democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:28 PM

Some of the same members of Mike Harris's Ontario conservative government are now prominent cabinet ministers in Harper's government. Back in Ontario they coined their conservative philosophy "The Common Sense Revolution" ( their name for cutting programs they didn't like and restructuring government handouts to cities and municipalities, schools, hospitals and health care institutions ) It lead to numerous hospital closings, city & municipality amalgamations who were forced to take over enormous social responsibilities, and massive education cuts. I laughed when they appointed John Snobelen, a grade 11 high school dropout as the Minister of Education and training - that's how much common sense these guys had! He messed that up so bad, they then put him in an environmental portfolio where He actually repented a bit by protecting public land and canceling the spring bear hunt. But later they discovered He spent most of his time at his ranch in Oklahoma while still being paid to be a member of the Ontario parliament. Read all about him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snobelen    These are very trustworthy folks! They left power with everything in a complete mess and handed Ontario a record deficit. Canada - we're next.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM

American fascists need Canada as part of the national socialist hemisphere.

Tons of money from American ruling class banking families purs into conservative movements to aid the progress of fascism.
The police state should handle the protests.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 04:46 PM

"what's the matter with Canada"

Here's a few of my complaints ....

1. it takes too long for postal delivery from Toronto to Saint John.

2. Air Canada

3. too much hockey ... not enough baseball

4. our passport expires in 5 years ... hell, why not 10 years.

5. The country is too wide

6. Maple syrup costs too much



biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM

Liberal Green Shift plan is complex and is proposed at a bad time. .
I suspect quite a few folks (me included) are skeptical that the money they loose on price increases will actually be made up in income tax relief.
Strategically, it was a really bad move for the liberals and a gift for Harper.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:00 AM

I have been to a number of presentations and have read quite a lot about this plan. It does not seem overly complicated, to me at least. Many countries do have a carbon tax and it does seem to work, especially in Norway. I wonder when would be a stategic time to take some steps towrd curbing carbon emissions. I tend not to see this as a political issue but as a human issue. We have got to start somewhere and this plan seems better than no plan at all.