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BS: Organic Food
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Subject: BS: Organic Food From: Wesley S Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:16 AM Organic foods are: A - A great idea. I eat organic whenever possible. B - It's OK. I'll eat it but I don't go out of my way to do it. C - A fad and/or a hoax. It's probably not really organic anyway. Pick one. Or make up an answer of your own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:21 AM A. Though I'm afraid it's going to get tougher in the current economic climate. I think it's healthier, and better for the countryside. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Paul Burke Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:57 AM D. Better for the ground. In many cases, the produce is healthier and less likely to be toxic* than mass- produced stuff, but a lot more expensive and often of lower quality. I'll skip supermarket stuff, often flown in at vast carbon cost, if it's really organic at all, and not just an excuse for a price premium. I'll eat the locally grown stuff if it looks good and is reasonably priced. * Remember ergot and the many other fungally- and bacterially- produced toxins that occur purely "naturally". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: bobad Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:59 AM I grow my own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:48 AM The producers of organic food use pesticides based on copper (which never goes away) and pyrethrum, which kills all insects, good and bad. They use the excuse that these are 'natural.' Whatever that means. Once I searched the net trying to define 'organic fertilizer'. All I found was a publication from the State of Arkansas. The list of agricultural and livestock wastes which qualify as organic fertilizer was a shock. No thanks. In my tiny garden I will sprinkle the nice clean grandules of fertilizer from a box. My plants have thrived for 30 years on them and no one has been sick. Last year friends gave us an organic cantaloupe. My husband wouldn't touch it until I squirted anti-bacterial dish soap on it and scrubbed every millimeter of it with a brush. Rinsed it well, of course. Once I went with a friend to Wild Oats. She had been away from home a long time and needed to restock. Her basket of food, which included only one piece of meat, cost over $240. It may have been $262. All this cost for food which supposedly LACKS expensive technologies. What nonsense! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:40 PM As a Hutterite friend selling produce in a local farmer's market said, "Our stuff is organic. It sure ain't mineral." I look over the 'organic' produce at the store and sometimes find the exceptional, such as the almost black rosso tomatoes, or the yellow, both of which have superior flavor in my view. Otherwise I don't use it. The additional expense and the lack of information on just what the label 'organic' means don't encourage me to go 'organic.' Once having had a large garden plot, and experimenting in various ways, it became obvious that "avoiding expensive technologies" cost me more in the long run. Most vegetables in the supermarket cost less than those I could produce, considering expenses such as soil maintenance, cultivation, fertilizers, fencing, protection against frosts and insects and burrowing animals, etc., etc. 'Growing your own' definitely is not a solution for working people, it is a time-consuming operation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: bobad Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM What is Organic? Organic is an agricultural method. It is based on agricultural management practices that * Create ecosystems capable of ensuring sustained productivity * Control weeds and pests through a diversity of interdependent forms of life * Recycle plant and animal wastes * Use crop selection and rotation * Manage water With this method * Soil fertility is maintained and improved by a system that maximizes soil activity * plants and animals are provided with essential nutrients * Soil resources are conserved. * Insects and diseases are controlled by o encouraging a balanced hostpredator relationship o increasing beneficial insect populations o using biological and crop controls o mechanical elimination of pests or damaged plant parts. For Crops: * No chemical pesticides nor weed killers o instead use mechanical or biological techniques and organic methods * Neo synthetic fertilizer nor sewage sludge o instead reinforce the soil by using proven agriculture methods * No Seed originating from GMOs (genetically modified organisms) o instead use only original seeds For animal breeding: * Neither antibiotics nor growth hormones o instead use alternative therapeutic techniques such as homeopathy * No animal wastes or slaughter byproducts in food diets o instead use feed that is cultivated according to organic standards and without GMOs * No overpopulation of animals in closed building o instead provide decent living conditions with adequate moving space, sunlight and fresh air For processed food products * No chemical dyes, artificial flavours nor synthetic additives including sulphates, nitrates o Preserving the original taste * No preservatives * No irradiation * No synthetic fungicides or preservatives in packaging or storage materials From COG - Canadian Organic Growers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:54 PM " 'Growing your own' definitely is not a solution for working people, it is a time-consuming operation " Square foot gardening is one solution. You won't replace EVERYTHING, but you can utilize space wisely, produce an abudance of produce that you enjoy, and it does not take as much time and effort after the initial setup. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: katlaughing Date: 01 Oct 08 - 01:02 PM Ron, what do you mean by "square foot gardening?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM "Organic is an agricultural method." What is defined is a "feel good" method, impractical for the most part. Only the grower knows that his produce fits the 'method,' there is no satisfactory way for the consumer to know if the produce in his store or farmers market meets the criteria of that list. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Janie Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM Square Foot Gardening It is a intensive gardening method or system in which you can grow a lot in not much space. Once you have your beds set up, it is pretty efficient. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM Thanks Janie! You are right, it is efficent! Pest control is much easier, weeding is easier and the results are terrific. After the first year, it becomes even easier. You do not have to till, add a little compost and put in your plants and then go back inside to grab a beer! It replace the idea of "row" planting which is something that farmers need to do, not backyard gardeners. You would be surprised at how much you can grow in a smaller space! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:16 PM In England it would seem to be a bit easier to buy locally, direct from farms, if the observations on this thread are typical of the American experience. Here you can get veg boxes delivered from local organic farms. You can have meat delivered from them, too. And visit the farms if you want to. I used to belong to the Soil Association - I think organic farming provides a welcome alternative to industrial food production. The proliferation of farm shops and farmers' markets in the UK would indicate that many people feel this way, and organic farming has been a big contributor to the real, local food movement. The idea of someone scrubbing an organic canteloupe with anti-bacterial detergent before they're willing to eat it is about the saddest thing I've heard in a long time.I hope you take equal care in scrubbing the pesticide-ridden food that comes from the supermarket. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: CarolC Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:26 PM I grow my own. I use an intensive method, but it's 4' X 8' beds. Organic is much healthier, because with this method, the soil is built up and not depleted, so the food has much more nutrition than the food grown non-organically. Organic farming is really the only way family farms can survive in the US, since the big agribusiness companies can't compete using this method. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: bobad Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:27 PM "here is no satisfactory way for the consumer to know if the produce in his store or farmers market meets the criteria of that list." This is simply not the case, at least in Canada. You can find out all about standards, certification and labelling at this site http://www.cog.ca/, if you are so inclined. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:50 PM Organic produce at stores in Calgary, Canada, have little signs saying "Organic." NO data. Store personnel have no information. The same is true at farmers markets. One must take someone's word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: curmudgeon Date: 01 Oct 08 - 03:26 PM This thread has more misinformation than some of the politicals. "Natural" is not the same as organic. There are laws and regulations concerning the label organic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 01 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM Indeed - the UK operates by the Soil Association standard, and its logo appears on goods and products which meet the correct criteria. It is a labour-intensive business to come up to their exacting standards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Bee Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM Same for Canada. I know a woman who has an organic cat and dog biscuit business. It was a huge effort to become organic certified, took a year or longer, and there were inspections. She grows all the vegetable ingredients, eggs are from her own chickens, so mostly she purchases certified organic grains and flours. But this meant both her garden, her chickens, and her suppliers all had to be looked at. If you're interested: http://katiesfarm.ca/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:57 PM yes - you can't even use muck from non-certified farms on the fields where your animals graze, if you produce organic meat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM sorry - that should have been, "on the fields where you make hay for animal feed", not on the fields where they actually graze. Nasty! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 01 Oct 08 - 05:49 PM organic food tastes .... well, it tastes like food. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Oct 08 - 07:27 PM As stated, most produce in Calgary grocery stores that is labeled 'organic' has no additional information. Selection is very limited in any case. Canned vegetables with 'organic' on the label are an exception, they have a note that they are certified by Quality Assurance National, which is the organization selected by by the USDA, National Organic Program. At the NOP website, they speak of lists of allowed or prohibited substances, etc., but I couldn't find any specifics at their website (Most organic produce in stores in Calgary comes from the U. S.). Fresh produce with the 'organic' label, as noted before, is expensive in Calgary (e. g., 3-4 organic potatoes cost as much as a 5 lb. bag of unlabeled potatoes). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: LilyFestre Date: 01 Oct 08 - 07:40 PM We grow a great deal of our own veggies and while we don't use chemical pesticides and such, it's difficult to know (I'm sure there are tests we could have done) about the soil and any chemical residues that it contains. We also raise our own chickens and eat the eggs. We have raised pigs in the past as well as a cow. Knowing what your livestock has been raised on is somewhat comforting. I wish we could go 100% organic but it's just too spendy. We do what we can. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Janie Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:02 PM Until we could afford it no longer, we bought nearly 100% organic, and my gardens have always been organic. I can't afford to do that any longer, but do still stick with organic milk, butter, cooking oils, etc. Lots of toxic chemicals are fat soluble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Bee Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:50 PM We're lucky in that we can get fresh eggs from the neighbour, and there are enough small farms not too far away that we can buy beef 'on the hoof'. I'm waiting now for half a cow for the freezer (husband is major carnivore), which will come in the form of ten or so roasts, a huge stack of steaks, various other cuts, and around 25 kg. of lean ground. All of it at about $5.25 per kg., which is less than half store price. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Ruth Archer Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:10 AM when money's tight, i always make sure that anything I eat that's grown in the ground is organic. Apparently root vegetables absorb lots more pesticides through the soil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Gervase Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:03 PM I would prefere to buy locally rather than organic while many supermarkets continue to sell organic food from Zambia or Peru. I like the idea of organic food, but in the UK it's hard to produce it unless you're doing so on a large scale. To register with the Soil Association as an organic producer costs £500 a year, whether you have five acres of five thousand. For a smallholder, the price-loading needed to recoup that outlay would make the produce prohibitively expensive. Our own lamb, hogget and mutton is produced as near as dammit to organic standards (though I will use antibiotics to treat infections rather than let the animals suffer), but I'm not allowed to call it organic unless I pay £500 a year to the Soil Association. As we're only selling around 30 carcasses a year that would mean jacking up the price by around £17 a time just for the organic label - and prices are so competitive that we'd end up pricing ourselves out of the market. Most small producers are in the same boat - which is why buying from a small local producer is usually the best option, both in terms of food miles, sustainability and ethical production. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Megan L Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:05 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Megan L Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:07 PM Now how did i do that ahm gettin auld. buyin small and local is grand if ye kin aford it maist folk on the pension buy whatever is cheapest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Bee Date: 02 Oct 08 - 01:07 PM Right you are, Megan - people with low income and children to feed as well. Here, though, 'local and small' as opposed to specifically 'organic' is usually cheaper. When fruit or vegetables are being harvested here, most farmers/orchard owners have enough surplus that they sell it cheaply at farm markets or roadside, and there are many U-Pick operations, where fields or orchards are set aside for the public to pick their own and pay a lower price. Large eggs here in the grocery store are over $3.00 a dozen. We had to insist our neighbour take $2.50 a dozen for her fresh extra large eggs from free range chickens, as we don't want her to end up in the red over the cost of chicken feed. She felt guilty charging more than $2.00 because she really enjoys having hens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Oct 08 - 01:28 PM How do low income people get to roadside or U-Pick operations, or to farmers markets, which mostly are in outskirts far from town centers? Anyway, U-Pick is not an option in cold Alberta- a berry-picking operation is about it. Illegal to keep chickens here- a long drive to get out of the city to rural areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Organic Food From: Bee Date: 02 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM Q - different (and smaller, and more small farms) province, different options. There are weekend farmers' markets in the city and in most towns here. The biggest Halifax market is right downtown, and so is the one in Dartmouth. There's even a Saturday-Sunday market in the tiny village near me. Most flea markets (popular here) in the city and towns usually have people selling produce. U-Picks are harder to arrange, nevertheless, there are lots of groups who specifically borrow or rent a vehicle for the purpose of taking people to U-Picks. It's a one hour drive to the Annapolis Valley from Halifax-Dartmouth. My elderly fixed-income neighbour went with one of these organized trips last weekend, coming back all happy and rosy-cheeked with bags of vegetables and apples and quinces and such. You are experiencing the problem of size. Here, while chickens are illegal in the city proper, you could still take a Metro bus in several directions and pass a number of properties with small flocks of chickens. Halifax also boasts a couple food co-ops. I was a member of two (at different times) when I lived in town, and they can be really good if they are run well. One of the things they do is buy produce in bulk direct from farmers. |
