A record question?

Subject: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:32 AM

I just bought a record player that will convert my 100 plus folkmusic records to CD's. Once I learn to use it, this will be my winter project. My question is: what do I do with the old vynal albums? Does anyone want them? I will appreciate any suggestions. Bob(deckman)Nelson ... in the Seattle area.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: nutty
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:41 AM

Sell them on ebay

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:46 AM

Archive them. Home recorded CDs can suffer unexpected failures. The Wikipedia article puts it well :Real-life (not accelerated aging) tests have revealed that some CD-Rs degrade quickly even if stored normally. The quality of a CD-R disc has a large and direct influence on longevity -- cheap discs shouldn't be expected to last very long. Unfortunately, branding isn't a terribly good guide to quality, because many brands (major as well as no name) do not actually manufacture their own discs. Instead they are sourced from different manufacturers of varying quality.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:19 AM

Hang on to them. In fact, better than copying them to CDR, store the digitised recordings on computer and back them up to a seperate drive. The problem with storing anything to digital media is that the file(s) can be wiped, over written, or subject to disc failure. That applies to backups just as much as to original copies.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: pavane
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

Bob,
If you have read the many threads here, you would know that you are NOT supposed to sell them after making a copy. That is no different in principle to copying an original CD and selling it, i.e. piracy.

If you DO, don't advertise the fact here, as it is illegal.

Also, as above, CD-R can decay quite quickly. Safer to keep the vinyl as backup.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Melissa
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:03 PM

I'm in the process of copying my records to cd too..nice winter project.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:06 PM

I'm considering offering them for FREE if anyone wants them, they'd just have to pay the postage. Any interest in this? Bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: pavane
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:08 PM

Still illegal, I believe

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

How can it be unlawful to gift them? Bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:29 PM

Giving them away is a great idea.
So is ebay.
Beats the heck out of the rubbish dump.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

Sorry: That was me.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:52 PM

"Any interest in this? Bob"

I'm interested.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Melissa
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:57 PM

me too..I love records!

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:11 PM

By the way ... olde records have great value if you're a skeet shooter! bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:28 PM

What I did is copy them to my PC. I store them in a protected directory that I back up. At least if they are digital I have them and they won't get scratched up. I can burn a CD at will. I can find them very quickly.   

you can make any directory (folder) protected and then unprotected, just right click on the folder and check the read only flag (assuming you are using windows)

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:35 PM

MY GOSH ... another "old dude" with good advice. I thought I was the ONLY one! thanx, Bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:39 PM

Old dude you said "you can make any directory (folder) protected and then unprotected, just right click on the folder and check the read only flag (assuming you are using windows)"

I don't see a read only flag when I right click a folder.

What exactly does making a folder protected do?

I am running WinXP.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: jeffp
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:08 PM

Right-click and select Properties. You should see the read-only box there.

It is a copyright violation to make a copy for another person. Making a copy to keep and giving the original away is the same thing.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:14 PM

I've transferred my vinyl and CD collections to my Mac and thence to my iPod - 12,000 tracks on the iPod is the result.

But I will never, ever get rid of the CDs - and particularly not the vinyl. I've had some of them since I was 16 or 17 and they're part of my life.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:16 PM

About 'legal':

I have bought old records in 2nd hand stores for years! I have GIVEN old records to 2nd hand stores and to friends.

Where do I go to turn myself in as a criminal?

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: weerover
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

I got the same type of gizmo as a present from my wife, but am holding on to the originals: as well as the legality question, the original sleeves often have information I may want to look at.

wr

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:32 PM

"Right-click and select Properties. You should see the read-only box there."

Mine is enabled by default. How does "read-only" protect the folder?

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:34 PM

I agree with the above. Until they come up with a device for copying the album notes on to a CD sized booklet, I need the originals.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: jeffp
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:49 PM

The issue is not selling second-hand albums, the issue is copying, then selling. Of course, if you don't respect intellectual property, you don't.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:53 PM

There is nothing illegal about selling or giving away vinyl records unless you keep copies, at which point you aren't really selling/giving them away - you're selling/giving away a copy, albeit your original copy. What is so difficult to understand about that?

This argument used to crop up regularly when people made cassette copies to play in the car. Perfectly legal if you keep the original, otherwise it's a breach of copyright.

Okay, make light of breaking the law if you must - the likelihood of being prosecuted is quite low, so you'll probably get away with it anyway.

Anyway, I would never get rid of any of my vinyl... too many memories.

'Read only' stops you accidentally deleting or overwriting the folder (and optionally its contents) unless you are really stupid and ignore the warning messages that tell you what you are trying to do! It's not limited to folders - you can do it with individual files, selections of files and even selections of folders.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM

Thank you for that info, Bernard.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:09 PM

As RangerSteve says, until I can conveniently copy the covers, I'm keeping mine. It is tedious enough digitising them, without typing out the cover notes.
Fortunately, years ago I made racks for storing them on edge, in batches of 10, and the boxes are portable.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM

Good point, Gurney - storing them on edge and not flat.

Why?

If stacked flat, Vinyl will eventually distort because it's technically still a liquid (just like glass!! Honest!!), and too much weight will permanently compress the grooves of records towards the bottom of the pile, possibly rendering them unplayable. Standing them on end means there's only the weight of the individual record to worry about, so they don't distort.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:36 PM

Hmmm ... perhaps I should have stored my children vertically ... several of them are somewhat distorted! bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:54 PM

You can also scan the covers and keep the images in your music folder and/or print them out for the CD cases.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM

It doesn't matter how you store children, they will always become distorted!! Send 'em up chimneys and put them to work in t'mills... that's what I say!

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:41 AM

Scanning record sleeves isn't an easy thing. Most of us only have access to an A4 scanner, and a 12" LP doesn't fit. We also can't affort to be spending vast amounts of cash in a commercial set-up.
I tried scanning in sections and using photo stitching software to mak the scans into one image, but it tended to either straighten out curved lines or put a curve onto the straight edges of a "frame".
Taking a digital photo using a camera also didn't give a suitable image.
Any thoughts anyone?
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:48 AM

Geoff - I've scanned in 12" LP covers on an A4 scanner in two passes. The secret, as far as I can tell, is to (a) make sure the lid is firmly down on the cover so as to avoid distortion in the scanned image - no easy if the scanner has any kind of a lip, and (b) use reasonably good software to marry the images. I use Photoshop myself, and it's fairly good.

An alternative is also to see if the cover is available on the net as an image which you can download for private purposes.

Mind you, A3 printers have dropped in price - any idea what an A3 scanner might be these days?

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Andrez
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:56 AM

Well unless I missed something up top, no one seems to have asked Deckman what records does he have? So I'm asking.....well whaddya got? Do you have a list?

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:13 AM

This will be a winter project ... which follows my summer project and also my fall project. As soon as I get into the records, the first thing I'll do is make a list and post it here. Thanks, Bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: treewind
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:32 PM

You should be able to do the sleeves with a reasonably high resolution digital camera. You'll need to put the camera some distance away from the LP cover and zoom in so it fills the frame, put the camera on a tripod so you can adjust its position and leave it there when it's in the right place, and experiment with lighting so you get even coverage and no glare. You probably don't want flash; bright diffuse daylight or daylight color temperature lighting would be good, or get the camera to adjust for the right colour balance.

It isn't easy, but keep experimenting. I've spent a lot of time photographing small printed circuit boards for the place where I work, to display on the website. It has taken a long time to get it even nearly right, every image still has to be edited lots, and every time I do it the pictures get better...

Anahata

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:00 PM

That's the way I do it. As many LP sleeves are glossy on the front, you have to be careful not to photograph yourself taking the photograph! If the camera is good enough, it's better to take the photograph with the sleeve above centre of the picture, which avoids this problem.

I find putting the sleeve flat on the floor with a couple of fluorescent tubes either side, a couple of feet away, works quite well - especially if you switch them on! As Anahata says, the tripod (or some other way of fixing the camera) is essential.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:20 PM

I get excellent results using a Canon scanner with a standard size surface and Canon photo stitching program. I press down on the cover to flatten out the edge curving.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:49 PM

100 LPs will take up about 1 1/2 lineal feet of floor space.

As several other people have suggested, do not get rid of the originals. You never know what will happen to the CD copy.

I know one person who made a CD from a record that was so dusty theat the copy was painful to listen to. Another made copies that skipped regularly in his car and on his next home player.

If you still have the LPs, you always have a second chance.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:09 PM

Saving to MP3 or a Flash Drive are more robust media

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:25 PM

A question? If I copy my records, and then continue to save the originals, isn't that a little like keeping your previous wives around? Hmmm ... Oh, never mind! bob

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:51 PM

Not exactly Bob......The hole in the middle of the record is smaller than the hole in the middle of, uh, well.......you know.........................................


I'll be leaving now...


Spaw

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:25 PM

Idleness, Bob that's why you make then into CDs. Then you only get up to change them every 40 minutes instead of every 20 minutes. Or even 75 minutes if you don't copy a couple of your least favourite numbers. And you can play them in the car, or the shed, or anywhere.
You do have some decisions to make, though.

If you have 2 LPs by the same artist, do you make two or one CD, dumping as suggested above? (75-80mins of one artist on a recording is a long time, much longer than the same length of time at a gig.) If you have 3 LPs by them, do you split one of them and make 2 CDs.

Do you separate out the numbers like on a CD, or just record the lot like you did when you taped? Easier to record without breaks, pausing the digitising program whilst you turn over the LP.

If you have compilation records, do you tag bits of them onto your new CDs, filling up some of that empty space, or do you add them all together.
I haven't made anything like all the mistakes that are possible yet, but those are three that I have made.

Subject: RE: A record question?
From: pavane
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

If you make Data CDs in MP3 format, you can get 7 hours or more in one CD. Just make sure your CD player can read them. And you can put each album in a separate folder, easy to skip them.