BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker

Subject: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Cats
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 10:52 AM

Iknow this is a very serious situation, but the pictures it conjures up are defintley worth sharing, as are the questions it raises.

Now, did they really want a Training Day, in a nice little hotel near Hastings... with a creche!!!

What happened to the parrot?

Did they swash and buckle over the side?

Arrgh Jim Lad...

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:01 AM

I actually find this quite amusing, but not because of the pirate angle. It's just kind of poetic justice that the thing we most need to ween ourselves off of right now just got more difficult to move around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:21 AM

Just read it before I came on. It is more common than you realise. A lot of smaller boats owned by the wealthy often get boarded and cash and jewellery stolen.

These guys don't drink black rum and wear black and white hooped tops, they are hi tech and do their homework before the prey leaves port.

Many a holiday ruined, nasty pieces of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:33 AM

Q-boats.

Also, they have now pissed off the Saudis.

That is not smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:39 AM

Q-boats are my recommendation also. And lots of them. Q-boats both large and small. All the maritime nations should cooperate in the effort and do no less than exterminate those engaging in piracy. A concerted effort of that sort would sort things out fairly well in a year or two, I expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM

Dash it old boy, send a gunboat, what?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:51 AM

No, not a gunboat. They can see a gunboat coming. I say hit the bastards without any warning whatsoever, and that's what Q-boats are for.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Skivee
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:55 AM

As a recognized member of the international pyratocracy, I am constantly amazed at the ill-conceived attack sratagies of our Somali brethren.
There would be no problem if they simply pulled along side of their prey and began singing shanties.
I might recommend "Rolling Down to Old Mogadishu", "Johnny's Gone To Hijack", " Farewell And Adieu To You Somali Ladies", " The Jolly Roving Petrochemical Distillate Product", as well as any songs mentioning rounding the horn (of Africa).
The appreciative passengers and crew would soon be raining money,jewels, and stock options down on them.
At least I think they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM

"...Just step up to the table with your bollocks on display;
And if they ask 'Were you ever at sea?'
You can say, 'Ten times 'round the horn.'
You can tell them you're a sailor
Since the day when you was born."

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:11 PM

It's a very serious matter, and the millions of dollars that have been paid in ransom so far only encourages the practice. If someone doesn't hit them, and hit them hard, very soon. Then it will only escalate, and lives will be lost.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:32 PM

Absolutely Mr Bridge, after all it worked before according to the records. Mind you that also was allied with a bounty of £20 per head of every pirate killed.

The "gunboats" (Sloops actually) worked and would work better than Q-ships because the "gunboats" were used not only to clobber the pirates at sea but also the ports from which they sailed. There was no such thing as an arrest or a trial, piracy on the high seas warranted death for those involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM

I think that it should be stopped both off the Horn of Africa, in the Straits of Malacca, and everywhere else it rears its ugly head. Attacking another nation's ships on the high seas has long been an act of war or near-war, and this is reminiscent of the Barbary pirates of the early 1800s. It must be stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: pdq
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:47 PM

The United States had conflicts over territory with several countries in it's early days, incluing England, Spain and France.

The young United States took a huge step in 1801 by starting the first foreign war with the Barbary Coast pirates. Unfortunately, this conflict is either misinterpreted in text books or expunged completely for political reasons.

                                                         read here

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,Comrac
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 02:09 PM

With the cost of heating oil at the moment it seems that Pirates living in Saudi are ripping us all off !

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 02:09 PM

Okay, fine. Let's use gunboats AND Q-ships, then, along with submarines, satellites, airplanes, commandos....let's use the works.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 02:13 PM

Piracy on the high seas.... carries the death penalty in most cultures with shores to their land.... Who would be stupid.... or clever enough.... to take even a calculated risk?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 10:19 PM

The area already has naval ships from several countries to quell the high seas adventures. This new haul was three times the size of an aircraft carrier, 450 miles out to sea, and carrying $100m worth of crude, which belonged to the Saudis (I think.) There's a long list of recent ships not making much news, and they STILL have that one with the tanks from Ukraine.

Are these some crazy sumsnabiches, or what ??

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 10:42 PM

Overall, the IMB estimates that piracy costs the shipping industry
anywhere from $1 billion to $16 billion a year. Although this figure might appear unacceptable, it is generally viewed as an inevitable cost of doing business that, when measured against the annual value of maritime commerce—which in 2005 totalled $7.8 trillion—is not, in fact, prohibitively onerous.


------------------
Sixth, corruption and dysfunctional systems of national criminal
justice have encouraged official complicity in high-level pirate rings, which has directly affected the phantom ship phenomenon. According to the IMB, in the Philippines, Indonesia, China and Thailand—all states where syndicates enjoy direct or at least partial access to co-opted or bribed members of the administration and bureaucracy— >>ships can be hijacked "to order" for approximately $300,000.<< These insiders not only provide invaluable information about activities taking place in the maritime commercial market, they also ensure that gangs are kept abreast of actions that industry or law enforcement are taking to counter their activities.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG697.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: irishenglish
Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:25 PM

Where's Captain Haddock when you need him?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 12:50 AM

The Saudis might want to think about investing some of that Madrassa money in Little Hawk's Q-boats.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:53 AM

I would have thought the rich Saudis would have the sense to protect these ships, if not with their own armed forces ( who never seem to be any use ) then with some mercenary forces.
It's up to them, they have the money, why should the rest of the world have to bother with them?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 05:26 AM

Recent large ships taken by pirates:

Pirates seize Japanese cargo ship off Somalia

No word on 23 crew aboard; attack comes despite increased security

The Associated Press
updated 12:08 a.m. CT, Sun., Nov. 16, 2008

And:

Somali pirates seize supertanker

Hijackers sail Saudi-owned vessel — the largest ever taken — to Somalia
The Associated Press
updated 2:05 p.m. CT, Mon., Nov. 17, 2008

This second one, the one cited at the beginning of the thread, is the largest vessel (thus far) hijacked, and was attacked about 450 miles out in the open ocean.

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - Somali pirates hijacked a Saudi supertanker with a cargo of crude oil hundreds of miles out in the Indian Ocean in a dramatic escalation that showed their expanding reach.

Many smaller vessels are attacked, frequently with crews and vessels held for long times, and fairly often with the murder of crew members.

From the first link, a summary of causes and conditions:

Somalia, which has had no functioning government since 1991, is the world's top piracy hotspot. It is located along the Gulf of Aden, which connects the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean and is one of the world's busiest waterways with some 20,000 ships passing through it each year.

Somali pirates are trained fighters, often dressed in military fatigues, using speed boats equipped with satellite phones and GPS equipment. They are typically armed with automatic weapons, anti-tank rockets launchers and various types of grenades.

In October, 22 sailors — eight South Koreans and 14 citizens of Myanmar — were released following a month of captivity after their South Korean shipping company paid a ransom to Somali pirates.

South Korea has said it is considering dispatching navy vessels to waters off Somalia to fight rampant piracy.

NATO has sent three ships to the Gulf of Aden to help the U.S. Navy in anti-piracy patrols and to escort cargo vessels.

The European Union has said at least four warships backed by aircraft will begin policing the dangerous waters in December. The EU flotilla will eventually take over the NATO patrols.

Despite the increased security, attacks have continued unabated off Somalia. There have been more than 80 attacks this year in the African waters.

From the second link:

Pirate attacks off Somalia have surged more than 75 percent this year, hitting freighters, tankers, yachts and fishing vessels. The pirates raised international alarm bells in September when they seized a Ukrainian freighter, the Faina, carrying a cargo of battle tanks and other weapons. The Faina and its 20-member crew are still being held off Somalia, watched by warships to prevent the removal of its cargo.

With most attacks ending with million-dollar payouts, piracy is considered the biggest economy in Somalia, a country that has had no stable government for decades. A report last month by a London-based think tank said pirates have raked in up to $30 million in ransoms this year alone.

***

The seizure of the Faina and its cargo of weapons prompted a reinforcement of warships patrolling the waters off Somalia. Along with a Russian frigate and Indian vessels, a NATO flotilla of seven ships is in the Gulf of Aden to help the U.S. 5th Fleet in anti-piracy patrols and to escort cargo vessels. The 5th Fleet said it has repelled about two dozen pirate attacks since Aug. 22 in the gulf.

Another multinational fleet currently led by the Dutch has carved out a protected lane through the Gulf of Aden, through which 20,000 tankers, freighters and merchant vessels transit every year, entering and exiting the Suez Canal.

But other ships — including ones too big for the canal like the Sirius Star — pass off East Africa to circle the continent by the Cape of Good Hope.

The expansion of attacks signals they too could be vulnerable.
"There will never be enough warships," said Graeme Gibbon Brooks, the managing director of British company Dryad Maritime Intelligence Service Ltd. "The whole area is 2.5 million square miles ... the coalition have to act preemptively and be one step ahead of the pirates."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:03 AM

I gather that there is a Port where the pirates hold captured vessels . Who controls that part of the country ? Or are the so called pirates actually government ponsred ??

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:50 AM

All this satellite surveiilance and drones and stuff isn't up to much, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:53 AM

"A lot of smaller boats owned by the wealthy often get boarded and cash and jewellery stolen.

Please, you're breaking my heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:02 AM

Theft is theft, piracy is piracy, regardless of the income level. I can't weep for a rich person being robbed, but I can weep for fisherfolk.

An international coalition should take whatever steps are necessary to end piracy (as much as you ever can) where ever it rears its head. The Caribbean, the Malacca Straits, the Horn of Africa -- where ever and using whatever means are needful.

Yes, I'm sorry for the Somalis and the other poor folks, but this is done by warlords and bandits and not by the poor sod plowing dusty ground. You don't think the POOR get any of the loot, do you?

Robin Hood this ain't.

And I wouldn't worry about sinking a few of pirate ships.....

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 09:09 AM

Of course, there isn't much piracy in Israeli waters,but then the Israelis have the hardware,and the balls,to deal with that sort of thing swiftly,decisively,and fatally----sadly,the dithering,hand-wringing ,bleeding-heart apologists who infest the corridors of power of our once great Western nations just aren't up to dealing with piracy on the High Seas,or the River Thames, for that matter.I saw the recent reports about the British Royal Navy engaging with, and killing,some pirates in one of the "hot spots", and the way the newspapers and TV in Britain reported it, you would think that the Navy had committed some terrible crime !! O Tempora! O Mores !

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 10:11 AM

Leadfingers asked:

I gather that there is a Port where the pirates hold captured vessels . Who controls that part of the country ? Or are the so called pirates actually government ponsred ??

The port is in Somalia.

Who controls? Two possible answers:
1. The pirates
2. No-one. Somalia is a failed state, effectively without a government.

Not government-sponsored, because there is no government there.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:06 AM

Just to put the location into perspective 450 nautical miles S-E of Mombasa is NOT 450 nautical miles out to sea. That puts this tanker either just going into of just coming out of the Mozambique Channel. It still is way off where you would expect these clowns to be.

Nail their base ports to such an extent as to make those who live there think twice about walking along the beach.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:14 AM

What upsets me about this is hearing the JibJab video summing up 2005 where they talk about pirates in somalia... plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 11:44 AM

Iranian-operated cargo ship hijacked off Somalia

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates – The U.S. Navy says a cargo ship has been hijacked off the Somalia coast — the latest in a series of attacks by pirates operating out of the African country.

Navy Commander Jane Campbell of the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet says the 26,000-ton bulk cargo carrier was attacked Tuesday in the Gulf of Aden.

She says the ship was flying a Hong Kong flag but is operated by the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081118/ap_on_re_af/ml_piracy

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 12:15 PM

From McGrath of Harlow:

"A lot of smaller boats owned by the wealthy often get boarded and cash and jewellery stolen.

Please, you're breaking my heart.

I suppose that you believe that the rich deserve to be robbed and murdered.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM

I'd rather they weren't robbed, murdered, or rich.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:09 PM

Why do you object to what other people have Kevin.

Typical "Socialist" politics of envy??

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:12 PM

Only envy if I wanted it myself, which I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:13 PM

So, nobody should be rich, including you?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:42 PM

You've got it in one.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:31 PM

Never gonna happen, and I seriously doubt it's a good idea. The only time an organism reaches equilibrium is when it's dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:34 PM

Piracy comes in many forms...

The pirates themselves claim that they have been forced into attacking international shipping after the destruction of their coastal fisheries over the past decade. Without an effective government for nearly two decades, Somalia has descended into a violent anarchy, a vacuum exploited by commercial fishing operations, many from Europe, to cash in on tuna and unspoilt fishing grounds.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/pirates-seize-giant-oil-tanker-1023093.html

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM

Yes, Carol, there's probably some considerable cause for moral outrage on both sides of the line on this story. Nevertheless, piracy cannot and should not be tolerated. It sounds to me like there is need for a world effort to restore some sort of functioning economy and civil society to Somalia...but no one wants to stick their hand in the hornet's nest, because there is no obvious monetary profit in doing so...and a good deal of risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 05:17 PM

I don't disagree that piracy cannot and should not be tolerated. I just think that we need to look at all forms of piracy when we say that.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 06:32 PM

Maybe legal title to the ships and cargoes could be sold at a discount to the Russian mafia...

(the Ankh-Morpork solution)

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 06:37 PM

Sniff...

I just recieved word that my application to join the pirates has been turned down??? Hey, I sent a CD an all but they said they didn't need no blues players... That is a polite interprtation... I reckon the blues ain't big with this gang...

Well, they ain't into hooks for hands or parrots so, heck with 'um... I'll start my own pirate crew, with parrots, hooks and blues...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: heric
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:07 PM

There ain't no denying that would be a hell of an item on one's Bucket List: Join pirates in stealing a ship with a displacement of more than 300,000 metric tonnes and $100m dollars of crude. lordamighty. "Go skydiving at the North Pole" hardly compares.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:34 PM

Yazzir, heric...

I heard on NPR today that the pirates are gettin' all the good lookin' chicks, too... They lined up to hook up with a good pirate man... And, at least fir now, alot safer than skydivin' over the North Pole"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:42 PM

I don't approve of piracy/stealing in general. Controlling the rich needs to be done in other ways. 'Rich' isn't even always bad, as getting there fuels many aspects of progress. And some of the Rich give away much of their wealth in useful ways. It's not for me to decide which of them should be robbed.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:48 PM

Come on, Bill... You'd make a great pirate... You know, with yer sideburns... Man, if there was ever a pirate lookin' guy, it was you... So, please reconsider 'cause I have a plan and I had counted on you for a senior position...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 01:38 AM

There are, or were, American 'pirates,' too, depending on your personal interpretation.
American tuna boats fish in other nation's coastal waters because "Tuna are pelagic wanderers," despite those nation's protests. If the tuna boats are arrested, the American Government threatens to break off relations with that country, considering this to be the act of an unfriendly power.
I don't know if this still continues, but it certainly did some years ago, here in NZ. Our government caved in. We still arrest the fishing boats of other nations, though. Their tuna boats, too.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to call them privateers, since they have/had government support.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:17 AM

That's not piracy, Gurney, it's poaching. But you're right, poaching tuna should be considered a serious crime. The only fish that should be poached is salmon. Tuna should be grilled.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 08:10 AM

I was listening to a radio talk this morning with a bloke in the UK that runs an anti-piracy consultancy. Disturbingly he reported that the ship owners don't give a toss about the abducted crews. You can pick crews up anywhere - they are a dime a dozen.
The anti-pirate weapon that he advises ship owners to install is the LRAD. Long Range Acoustic Device. The sound waves hitting people at 1000 metres is most uncomfortable and at 500 metres it is unbearable. Its a wide angle device so you don't have to be too flash with your accuracy. I might get one to use on the neighbours !
For details go to ;
http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/anti-pirate-weapons-piracy-somalia/
See item 2.

JG/FME