A Mudcat Glossary

Subject: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Doctor John
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 04:29 PM

Many a folksong contains obscure words or expressions and there have been threads about this at times. It may be dialect, jargon, archaic words, local (in time or place)expressions or forgotten sexual euphemisms. Whatever it makes some songs quite unintelligible. What are "chain plates"; what is Lead Belly song "Pigmeat" about; what does "Stooin Doon The Waall" mean? Could a glossary of terms be started rather like the biographies and the database? Dr John.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 04:44 PM

no, Dr. John, you don't understand- what we are supposed to do is just change the words to something vaguely approximating what we hear, whether it tracks, scans, or makes ANY sense..then folkies/scholars will have something to debate and conduct erudite discussions about in Mudcat 2099....;>)

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 05:02 PM

For a fine example of folkie/scholarly discussion, click on this:

bodacious blue clicky thang

seed

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 06:20 PM

There's a "Folkie's Dictionary" at http://www.cgrg.ohio-state.edu/~spencer/FF/index.html, however it doesn't list "pigmeat," "stooin," or "chain plate."

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 06:56 PM

Well, all the ladies seemed to have craved Huddie's "Pigmeat" so I could take a wild guess! Perhaps his Kosher girlfriends were content to stick with his "chicken".

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 11:22 PM

Dr John & Jeri,
Chainplate : that part of a ship that the shrouds are attached to.
Shrouds : Ropes or ,these,days , steel cables that hold up the mast athwartships
Mast : vertical stick that the sails --etc etc etc

Regards Ted

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Fadac
Date: 21 Jun 99 - 12:00 PM

Dr. John More on Chain Plates. (puff out Ted's deff a bit.) The lines that hold a mast up, where they attach to the vessel, This is called the chain plate. sometimes they are stanless steel that go deep inside the hull, they have to carry the full weight of all the ships sails and rigging. Chain may have been used to help hold things down at one time.

On the old time sailing ships, men would climb up the side ropes (ratlins) to get to the yards (things square sails are hung from). On the bottom of these ratlins, where they attached to the ship, there were a series of wood blocks rigged as sort of an early block and tackel rig (called deadeyes). These were adjusted to set the angle of the mast. The bottom of these were attached to the chain plate. Most modern sailing vessels now use wire rigging and a turnbuckle to adjust the tenson. However th ere some advantages of the old deadeye system. (like they never ever fail without lots of warning, turnbuckles can just snap. Surpriese! Mast comes tumbling down. This is very bad.)

As lots of these terms come down to us over the ages, some of the orginal prouncouition (sp?) have been lost. To properly pronounce some of these terms it helps to have a large wad of tobaco in your mouth. If you don't chew, then a couple of large pieces of potato will work. Just put them in your mouth and say,

ForCastle = 'focsl (mumble spit.) Top sail = T'sail (dribble) etc.

Enjoy,

Fadac

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 08:19 AM

Sorry, but I can't resist putting my two penn'orth in!

Right. The wooden ships' masts were supported at the sides (and to take the strain from the wind on the sails) by ropes called shrouds. Each shroud was attached as Fadac describes, to a pair of deadeyes which were joined together by a rope which looped through holes in the deadeyes, and could be adjusted to tighten up the shroud. The bottom deadeye was attached by a wrought iron fitting at the edge of the chain plate, which is a wooden platform that sticks out at right angles to the hull and parallel to the water. This fitting was attached by a wrought iron strap called a chain, the bottom end of which was bolted through the hull of the ship. OK so far? the chain plate was also called the chain wale, or channel when you're chewing your wad. The leadsman would stand in the forechains (i.e. of the foremast) and take soundings by heaving the lead - a lead weight on a line marked off in fathoms, shouting things like "By the mark twain!". For deep-sea soundings, he would use a deep-sea (promounced dipsey) lead, on a long line. Don't ask about tinky-winky and laa-laa leads! The leadsman could get into trouble if he was too idle and just pretended to to heave the lead and haul it back in; he'd be swinging the lead.

Have a look here for more info. Don't be overwhelmed by the amount of rigging on a ship: just remember that it's basically fairly simple, but multiplied by the number of sails and the number of masts!.

There are lots of good books on the subject if you get hooked; meanwhile try reading Patrick O'Brian's novels.

---

Nearly forgot! Stottin' doon the waall is from the north-east of England. Stotting is what you do instead of walking after several pints of N'castle Broon Ale. I think the wall was the wall of a ropeworks (and therefore very long) in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, which prevented stotters from falling over on their way from the pub.

Steve

Subject: Standing rigging pictures
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 10:11 AM

And have a look at this page for a good drawing of the bits in question. Click on the drawing for a large detailed version - you'll see the channels and the chains clearly.

Steve

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Doctor John
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for all the information especially the links to the sailing ship sites. I can now sing (sort of) sea shanties when I'm stottin' doon the waall on Friday neet and know what I'm talking about. Should we keep this thread going with other terms of interest? Dr John

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 99 - 01:47 PM

V. interesting, that article about masts and rigging. I always had a fair idea what I was singing about in "John Dameray" (a fairly obscure shanty I do which I like lots but most others don't, to judge by the lack of the join-in factor) when I sang "John come down the backstay", but now I know exactly.

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 03:51 AM

Sliding down a backstay was a much quicker way of getting down from wherever you were on the mast than climbing back down the ratlines, if you had the nerve for it. Another short-cut was to run out along the top of the yard (the spar that the sail is fixed to) instead of climbing out with your feet on the footrope and your hands holding the yard, The only problem was that the whole thing would be ging up and down, side to side, backwards and forwards, and round and round - all at the same time, at different rates!

There must be some real sailors out there who can contribute?

Steve

Subject: RE: A Mudcat Glossary
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 10:06 AM

SteveV This should supply all and any nautical terms your heart may desire. Some supplied by "real sailors" :-)>

Regards Ted