BS: Yuletide - the Solstice

Subject: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:53 AM

To all our friends on the 'Cat :

May the re-birth of the Invicible Sun bring you and those you love, all Joy, Health, Peace and Love in the time to come.

So mote it be.

Erica and Bryn

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: John J
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:24 PM

Thank-you, that's lovely.

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 01:13 PM

Winter Solstice Point 2008 - 21 December, 12.04 GMT.

Splendor Solis!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:27 PM

Originally, as I understand it, they burnt the yule log in memory of the time that shamans
in earlier cultures set trees on fire to appease the gods so that daylight would return.
They picked the Solstice to do this. Eventually, the sun did come back so more trees
were set on fire. This is why we have Xmas Tree lights.

Christmas is undoubtably a pagan holiday. It was appropriated by Christians to make
up a birth of Christ which was assuredly impossible to be on Dec. 25 if he existed at all.

The Egyptian God, Mithras claims the 25 of December as a birthdate.

They clocked Jesus as being sometime in June. They researched the intersection of
the planets in a row making the proverbial biblical star of Bethlehem. I think it was Jupiter and another planet which escapes me now. In June.

I like the Pagan Christmas because it makes more sense than does the Christian one.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM

And to you and yours likewise Bryn!

A plug for a seasonally enchanting book that I'm currently reading, by a couple of my favourite authors:

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christmas-Spirits-Rituals-Yuletide/dp/1594770921/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

Though personally I'll be glad to get this "bluddy 'orriblist year" outa the way... Roll on Imbolc!

Rosie :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:55 PM

May the snow bring you whiteness......jeez!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:56 PM

Oops, that's: Pagan Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: gnu
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:00 PM

Well, the bright star is now in the western sky.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:03 PM

Awww, so thoughtful! And may abundant rabbit droppings bring your snowmen speckly brownish stainings Mr. Sanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:35 PM

Bryn & Erica, thank you and may your wishes for all of us return to you tenfold.

IB, that is a beautiful image.

I was watching Burt Wolf's travel show on PBS the other day. He was doing a ride up the Danube and claimed that Christmas trees came about when Protestant churches decided they were okay, i.e. not too Papist/garish as a representation of the Christ child and the Light. That was a new theory to me!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 04:22 PM

"...Christmas trees came about when Protestant churches decided they were okay, i.e. not too Papist/garish ...

Doesn't make sense! Christmas trees could not have first "come about" in such a context. The statement implies that Christmas trees had been known under "Papist" juristiction, before the Reformation. The Protestant reformers in that neck of the woods apparently rejected the Christmas tree for a period of time, and then had to reconsider and relent.

I suppose the "pagan" impulse to celebrate the Winter Solstice by bringing evergreen foliage into our houses is just too strong to be denied!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM

From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:03 PM

Awww, so thoughtful! And may abundant rabbit droppings bring your snowmen speckly brownish stainings Mr. Sanity!

Ahhh, the yuletide spirit!

Merry Christmas, anyway.
Happy New Year, as well..

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 08:37 AM

Ancient humans came from darkness and they spread across the planet
They saw the sky above them, and they learned to find their way
Out of ignorance and shadow to the hope of human kindness
They were strengthened by the knowledge that they gathered every day
And all wise folk speak of peace on earth, of harmony and struggle
Yet another cycle's gone, and a new one will begin
On this darkest day of winter, we recall that the Spring will come again
On the darkest day of winter, we cherish light with green and kith and kin...
Well now, each of us must travel, yes we all must make our journey
It seems that time is telling us to use all we can know
To help lift up the fallen we must sow the seeds of goodness
The torch has passed among us now to light the way to go
For our hearts are as a chalice, and our dreams are of the sunlight
They burn away the darkness as we kiss 'neath mistletoe
Unlike eagles flying higher, unlike rivers down a canyon,
When diamond stars shine down on us, we know whereof they glow...
And the wise still speak of peace on earth, of harmony and struggle
Yet another cycle's gone, and a new one will begin
On the darkest day of winter, we remember that the Spring will come again
On the darkest day of winter, we cherish light with green and kith and kin...

I cherish all of you. Love, peace and harmony in all of its manifestations, musical and otherwise, to you, in the coming year and future.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:40 AM

It was Martin Luther (November 10, 1483 – February 18, 1546) who is credited with first decorating a tree at Christmas. The story goes that he was walking through the woods one Christmas Eve and saw a fir tree with the stars shining through it. He was so moved by its beauty that he uprooted one and brought it home, fixing candles to the branches to signify the stars as heaven brought down to earth.

In the UK, the first Christmas tree is credited to a German Princes Lieven, who had one put up in 1892, a good 10 years before Prince Albert. He and Victoria made them popular, but previously they had been almost exclusively a German tradition.

Others credit St Boniface of Crediton who, in his attempt to convert Germany to Christianity in the 8th Century, cut down a sacred Oak tree. A fir tree miraculously sprang up in its place and Boniface adopted this as the symbol for the new faith. Combine this with the German tradition of putting a fruit tree branch indoors in water to force it into flowering during the season, and the legend told by a 10th Century geographer that on Christmas Eve at midnight, all the trees in the forest bear flowers and fruit, and you've got yourself a brilliant excuse for dressing a tree with flowers, fruit and lights. Princess Lieven's tree was decorated with paper roses, apples, gold foil and sweets.

We've gone over to electric lights these days because our homes, being warmer and less plant friendly, dry the trees out so much that real candles become a fire hazard.

Whether it's a pagan tree worship, a Saturnalian tribute or a Christian holy day, have a blessed Solstice... and although I bat for the other team, I'll be lighting a few candles, just in case!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,solstice boy
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 11:50 AM

I was born about 7.00am, Sunday 21 Dec, 49 years and 3/4 months ago..

does that mean I might have any special supernatural powers
I'm not currently aware of..?

Also, need I hide in the attic this Sunday
for fear any barmy old hippies might
want to sacrifice me..???


[yeah, I'm sure I probably ask this question on every mudcat
winter solstice thread..]

whatever, I'm taking a celebratory bottle of fine old malt
up the attic with me , just in case..

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:02 PM

Knocking on the door of 50 'solstice boy'? You'll be lucky to get a look in with the barmy old hippies. Get in line! Don't you realise that there are lots of gorgeous Wicca babes out there now, merrily 'sacrificing' themselves to the bearded ones? And not just on feast days either...

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM

PS if you're genuinely interested I can knock up an astrological chart for a small fee. Along with the usual black cockeral and stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:14 PM

The Amish, traditionally, do not put up a Christmas tree but I don't know that it is a hard and fast rule.

I was 9 years old when my sixteen year old sister brought in our first tree. It was a table top model and we made and colored bands of paper that we strung on the tree, as well as tinting popcorn and threading strings of it 'round and 'round the tree. I don't remember that there was anything else on the tree but it was a momentous occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:55 PM

Yuletide Blessings to you Bryn and your family.

Blessed Be

Khatt and Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: lady penelope
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 04:57 PM

I dunno, wiccans are weird..... But that's organised religion for you... *G*

Solstice boy, yes you do have special powers, you can spotaneously combust at the drop of a sickle.... LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 07:32 PM

Sorry, that 1892 should of course be 1829... d'oh!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 07:35 PM

From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM

PS if you're genuinely interested I can knock up an astrological chart for a small fee. Along with the usual black cockeral and stuff.

You can WHAT????!!!!????!!
Now that must be an AMAZING WOMAN!!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:08 AM

And do you by any chance have a sideline interest in a Fried Chicken shop?

Well it's sinful to waste all those black cocks on one thing...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:22 AM

Well it's sinful to waste all those black cocks on one thing...


Liz,   Behave yourself!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:53 AM

Erks! I'm scared of engaging in any more worthless banter here in BS unless that Scorcha lady comes back and flames me again for cluttering up the place. But as you've asked so nicely LTS, FYI I don't actually have any spare black cocks for you to munch on, but apparently I do have (quote) "arseholes, everywhere" (certainly more than are required for my personal needs) that could be nicely BBQ'd instead...
Any good to you?

Sorry, sorry Bryn, I promise to stop Off-Topicing your genuinely charming Solstice Greetings thread now and return to shameful lurking... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM

I'm totally aganist Politcal Correctness, it's not a happy holiday it's the season of Chirstmas but people ten to forget that.

here is a poem that someone sent me and I agree with it.


*Twas the month before Christmas*

*When all through our land,*

*Not a Christian was praying*

*Nor taking a stand.*

*See the PC Police had taken away,*

*The reason for Christmas - no one could say.*

*The children were told by their schools not to sing,*

*About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.*

*It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say*

* December 25th is just a ' Holiday '.*

*Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit*

*Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!*

*CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod*

*Something was changing, something quite odd! *

*Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa*

*In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.*

*As Targets were hanging their trees upside down*

* At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.*

*At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears*

*You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.*

*Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty*

*Are words that were used to intimidate me.*

*Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen*

*On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton !*

*At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter*

*To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.*

*And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith*

* Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace*

*The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded*

*The reason for the season, stopped before it started.*

*So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'*

*Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.*

*Choose your words carefully, choose what you say*

*Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS ,

not Happy Holiday !*

Please, all Christians join together and

wish everyone you meet during the

holidays a

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Christ is ¡The Reason¢ for the Christ-mas Season!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 11:09 AM

how true

Remember that Christmas is all about Jesus, but if you don't like this then why celebrate it in the first place, you should all become Jehovah witness or Mormans or some other faith that doesn't celebrate Christmas ans then you won't be classed as a hypocrite.

I celebrate Christmas because I'm a Chirstian, and it is a Christian holiday.

So have your pagan Christmases or whatever but don't sing Christian songs and don't give/take Christmas gifts because that smacks of
being a hypocrite

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 11:43 AM

This thread was about Yuletide or Winter Solstice. And it was warmly intended and charmingly worded by the OP. Though of course like many threads it has inspired interesting tangiental discussions. Please try not to mistake a friendly gesture as an attack. And if you dislike the thoughts a thread such as this generates, perhaps it is better to refrain from reading it and indeed posting?
Happy Solstice, and may some en-Lightening sparks fall your way.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 12:11 PM

Sleepy Rosie - when I'm pretending to work, I'm doing it for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs... I'm SURROUNDED

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 02:41 PM

It might make sense to ask those who aren't Christian believers to refrain from singing carols whose lyrics explicitly concern the birth of the Christ Child...

...but it makes no sense at all to preclude such persons from gift-giving, enjoyment of food and drink, placement of trees indoors, singing fa-la-la-la-la, promotion of human fellowship and peace on earth, and other such time-honored Yuletide/Soltice traditions.

These midwinter holidays are the birthright of all of us, of any religion or none at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 03:12 PM

Dunno what happened there... there was an erudite piece on the Solstice and the fact that I'm surrounded by assholes because of my workplace, but it vanished!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 07:13 PM

Man - you know - since modern pagan revivalists started redefining the christmas holiday for me, my life has been revolutionised ...

... at least for as long as it took me to chew my last mouthful of turkey ...

And of course my 4 year old daughter really gives a s*** too.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 07:59 PM

goatfell, one thread of that copy and paste is enough, imo. You posted it in the Christmas thread, then verbatim in here. Leave off.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: jimmyt
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 11:00 PM

Happy whatever! jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 11:13 PM

From: Goatfell
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 10:55 AM

I'm totally against Political Correctness, it's not a happy holiday it's the season of Christmas but people ten to forget that.

here is a poem that someone sent me and I agree with it.


*Twas the month before Christmas*...........................

Not only do I applaud you,.....you get a standing ovation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: CapriUni
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 02:00 AM

I was raised, culturally, Christain (Quaker), but, in practical terms, my upbringing was secular. I was taught, by my parents, the story of Jesus' birth, and that the star on top of the tree represented the Star of Bethleham.*

But mother also told me, from the time I was seven or so, that Jesus was not really born in December.

She said, even back then, that we celebrate Christmas when we do because of the ancient pagans who celebrated the winter solstice, that they would light candles and fires to entice the sun to come back, and bring greenery into the house to encourage life to keep going. And she said that the main reasons why we give gifts to each other, and have feasts and sing songs because we've got a long, cold winter ahead of us, and things would get very depressing, otherwise.

In my teens, she started a brief tradition of holding a Winter Solstice potluck party at our house, inviting all the neighbors over. When the sun set, she would try to encourage people to join in a collective cheer, to say good bye to the old sun, and get ready for the new one to come... mostly, people just looked at her like she was weird. But she cheered enthusiastically, anyway.

We always bought a live ball-and-burlap tree; we took off the decorations and moved it to the basement on Twelfth Night (I was also told it was bad luck to keep it up any longer), where it could stay cool-yet-protected until the ground thawed in the spring. Then it would get planted somewhere on the property.

She also told me that it was good luck to have a bird ornament somewhere on the tree, because it represented the continuation of life in the coming new year -- I really do not know which culture she got that from. Our ornaments were always eclectic and folk-arty /homemade -- none of this Martha-Stewart style "Theme" stuff. But nearly every year, we'd buy one new bird ornament to hang in the tree (And it was considered especially auspicious if we found a real bird's nest somewhere in the branches of our tree. I remember that happening a couple of times).

Anyway, that's what I remember. So it's hard for me to really get my head around the apparent conflict some see between celebrating Christmas and celebrating the winter solstice, because I've known all my life that the two are linked, and that both halves are important to people, though each half is more or less important to different people, and that's okay.

For the record, I never really talked to my mother about how she was raised, religiously. I think they went to an Episcipalian church in New York City when they were kids, though I think she and her siblings spent more time running around the church towers, getting into mischief, than actually listening to any of the sermons. She once told me, near the end of her life, that she considered Mathematics to be her religion, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were useful metaphors for the Past, Present and Future, respectively-- and that when we die, she thought it could be that we're reincarnated into the daisies that we push up, and that our souls, if souls we have, just become part of the pattern of energy in the universe as a whole. So I guess most "normal" people would call her an atheist. But she was a very spiritual, maybe-believing-in-magic-along-with-science, atheist. She specifically asked to be cremated, and for her ashes to be periodically spread on our compost heap.

---

*It was thin wood, a geometric design, and painted barn-red. My mother bought it at a Danish design store, iirc, for my parents' first Christmas as a married couple. I think we used it every year, at least, until Mom died.

Glad Yule!

Io, Saturnalia,

Merry Christmas!

Happy Hannukka!

Happy New Year!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 03:52 AM

what it says

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 04:38 AM

So have your pagan Christmases or whatever but don't sing Christian songs and don't give/take Christmas gifts because that smacks of
being a hypocrite

Hey, I'll celebrate Christmas, Saturnalia, the Solstice, Divali, Hannukah, Eid and whatever festivals I fancy, mate! There are loads of religions and they all say they are right so who am I to disagree. If they want me to celebrate - I wll. Don't need to be asked twice.

Just don't ask me to do any of that weird stuff...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 04:58 AM

El Gnomo - you mean weird like drinking eggnog? What the hell is that stuff anyway? No sane person would drink it any other time of the year, so why now?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Michael
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 07:32 AM

Whether or not you have any Christian beliefs, we(both UK & US and many other parts of the world) have a holiday including 25th December.The holiday exists because of the Christian festival of Christmas, not for any other reason, so let's call it that.

It's a bit like saying "I don't believe in Woden, so I'll just call the day between Tuesday and Thursday 'day'" If you see what I mean.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 08:22 AM

And the "Winter Solstice", is an *astronomical event* which occurs somewhere between the 20th and 23rd December. Nothing wrong with calling that what it is either.

And I seem to remember reading somewhere, that at least a couple of those astronomical events like the Winter Solstice, were officially established at least >poster counts on her fingers< eleventytwelve or so years before Jesus or Woden or anyone else was born ;-)

Anyone know the approximate time for the Sunrise (UK) on the 22nd? If it's clear I might go out and catch it.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:25 AM

but what has that got to do with Christmas eh!
If you don't believe in Christ then don't celebrate Christmas,I have no problem with that but BRITIAN IS A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY or it used to be.
If you want to have that sort of 'faith' then go ahead but remember what Christmas is all about that's all, and who it is all about as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:39 AM

If I was a muslim or a jew or any other memeber of faith I would be going off my head at this Happy Holidays and not a word would be siad about me, but as a Christian, I've just to sit back and allow people to critasize me, and just take it lying down, I mean would would be saying these things about a muslim or a jew or anyone else for that matter no but because I'm a Chirstian reminding people wht CHRISTmas is all about I have been told to shut up, aye tell that to a muslim to shut about their faith and see where you end up, I don't mind people the way the celebrate CHRISTmas, but don't tell me what I can and can not do.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Mr Oldbugger
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:57 AM

Goatfell, if it makes you feel any better this Xmas..

I'm an agnostic and couldn't give a monkeys for anybody's religion..

..and if it wasn't for the mrs being so girly
about all this seasonal
good cheer bollox

I'd be just as happy to treat it all as just any other miserable bloody day...

happy @#*?in' christmas !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:00 AM

No-one here is telling anyone else what they *should or should not be doing*, except YOU Goatfell: "Do this, don't do that. Bla bla bla!"

Yes there is only one TRUE CHRISTMAS, it's a holiday the Church established on the 25th December and it involves lots of pressies and plastic baubles and pudding (I know 'cos I've seen this Sacred Mystery in action myself)

This thread is for people interested in Winter Solstice on the 21st.

So please stop bossing everyone else about, and stop telling other people who you don't know from Adam what *they* can and can't do, and go and TROLL your own thread. Ta..

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: GUEST,Mr Oldbugger
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:16 AM

oh no Goatfell.. and now you've just reminded me..

if it aint bad enough I've got keep the telly turned down low
and all the lights off
in case of carol singers...

theres also bound to be the annual plague of local godbotherers
banging on the front door
early in the mornings
when i'm trying to settle down for a quiet relaxing shit..


xmas is worse than %*@#in' halloween..

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:20 AM

I give up,

I now know what this thread is all about, and I'm sorry for being an Idiot and bumhole.

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: skarpi
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:22 AM

The winter solstice " vetrar sól stöður " is tomorrow .

HAve a great holydays all .

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:27 AM

"I'm sorry for being an Idiot and bumhole."

Lol! Well seeing as you made me laugh out loud by saying "bumhole", everythings good again... ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:32 AM

thank you