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BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009)
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM They got one engine, robz, 'cause it was still attached... The other one won't be too hard to find seein' as it's most likely in the bottom of the channel and they can send down one of those un-manned subs with a camera... One thing fir sure is that it hasn't wnadered off...lol... As fir me joinin' the search party.... I'll take a pass... If they want someone to come "give the gun" to them geeses then they got the right guy... I'll load up all my buddies here in the holler and we'll take care of that situation in short order... How do you spell "goose jerky"??? Ummmmmmm, good... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 18 Jan 09 - 08:56 AM "I know that folks are looking for a "feel good" story and this one was for a couple hours... " You say that like it is some sort of crime. Of course people are looking for a "feel good" story. What sort of idiot spends time only on stories that make them feel bad. You say that any pilot could have done that? Well, there was only one person who piloted that particiular plane so if he deserves it, let him be the hero. It is one thing to have the knowledge of what to do, it is another actually do it. When you do it in your Piper Cub, let us know how it turns out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM I didn't say I was gonna do it, Ron... What I have been sayin' is that it wasn't rocket eurgery to do what he did... And part of what he did was motivated by his own survival instincts.... Keeping the nose high was not only the correct thing to do but also saved his life... Now, as fir "feel good" stories... We have a great one with the Innaguartion of Barack Obama and for the last three days here Obama has had to alternately play 2nd fiddle to the plane crash... I mean, I've seen Obama stories pre-empted by "news breaks" that contain no real news about the crash but yet another interview of one of the passengers thoughts about the crash... Hey, I ain't saying the guy didn't do a fine job but ain't that why airline pilots have to have so much training??? I mean, I'd like to think that if I was taking off from Reagan National and a couple kamakzi geese killed off the engines that the pilot would know to land the plane nose-up in the water... Now back to crashin' a Piper Cub... No thanks... Allready done that in my life and got it out of my system, thank you... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 18 Jan 09 - 09:50 AM The Guardian (UK) got hold of the pilot's CV, see below. Looks like the passengers were very lucky to have Mr Sullenberger in the hot seat. The right stuff indeed. Chesley Sullenberger, from Danville, California, is a 29-year veteran of US Airways with 40 years' aviation experience and about 20,000 flight hours in jets, propeller planes and gliders. He flew F-4 jets in the US air force before beginning his civilian career, and now gives speeches on aviation safety. Among his interests are studying the psychology of how teams cope in an emergency, Sullenberger is a graduate of the USAF academy, Purdue University and the University of Northern Colorado. He was a speaker on two panels at the High Reliability Organisations (HRO) international conference in Deauville, France, in 2007 and has just been named a visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley. He served as an instructor and Airline Pilots Association safety chairman, accident investigator and national technical committee member, local media said. He has participated in several USAF and National Transportation Safety Board accident investigations. His safety work led to the development of a Federal Aviation Administration advisory circular. Working with Nasa scientists, he co-authored a paper on error-inducing contexts in aviation. He was instrumental in the development and implementation of the crew resource management course used at his airline and has taught the course to hundreds of colleagues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Rapparee Date: 18 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM This is all part of a plot by the Canadians. They want Ft. Ticonderoga and parts of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine back, so they are sending suicide Canada geese to crash our aircraft. This is a new level of Canada geese violence against the US, raising the bar from the biological and chemical attacks you can find in many US fields and ponds to direct action. TO ARMS! I say. Deport all Canada geese! Send 'em back to Canada where they belong! And let's build a fence to keep 'em out, too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 11:26 AM Terrorists everywhere... Wonder if Chnogo had a hand in this??? B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 18 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM "I'd like to think that if I was taking off from Reagan National and a couple kamakzi geese killed off the engines that the pilot would know to land the plane nose-up in the water..." We would all like to think that, but the reality is we do not know - and pilot error has lead to disaster. Of course he was "doing his job", just as the rescue workers on 9/11, school teachers, doctors and volunteers who give their time and energy. It goes without saying that EACH of these people receive training and are supposed to know what to do when the time come. You can sit in front of as many simulators and take all the tests you wish, but when it comes down to a real life emergency you have to put up. This guy IS a real hero and deserving of all the accolades, and attempts to even slightly explain it away as "matter of course" is simply ignorance of the situation. Plain and simple, the news cut ins were well deserved as this incident set an example of how people depend on each other and come through in times of strife - something we often ignore. Give the man his due unless proven otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: EBarnacle Date: 18 Jan 09 - 12:59 PM Spoke with Larry/Lorcan/InOBU yesterday and today. He has been down at the World Financial Center and has gotten several photos of the submerged plane and of it sitting on its barge. He has posted these to the web but I do not remember the link he gave me. The plane will be taken and studied by the NTSB. The reason Sully is not available for comment is that NTSB is a bureaucracy and they build their cases sequentially. In other words, they look at the physical evidence, then ask the participants questions relating to the evidence. This way, they can ask the questions fewer times than if they interview, look at the evidence, discuss the questions raised by the evidence, etc. This system is a pain in the butt for the public but it makes sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 01:19 PM Hell's Bells, Ron... I don't know if you you have ever flown either right ot left seat in a plane but one thing that all pilots have to do is learn about landin' the things under very difficult curcumstances... Crosswinds can be extremely tricky where you have to "crab" yer way down and then once your down ya' crab yer way down the runway, too as the wind is pushing so hard against the side of the plane that it wants to push you off the runway or "ground loop" you... In order to get a basic pilots license you are required to complete one heck of alot of foul weather landings... Not in a similator but in a real airplane... After an afternoon of touch-n-gos with 30 knots blowin' at yer side you get a feel for what to do and its that repetition, like playin' geetar, that imprints this stuff in yer brain... Now with the number of hours in both the similator and in real airplanes that are requird to become a commerical pilot these guys (and gals) all have that stuff imprinted... The fact that this plane was landing on water, as opposed to a runway, doesn't change the ones imprints and feel to do what they have to do... Ask any commercal pilot other than the retired ones who Big Media is paying to say that this guy was some kind super-natural pilopt and they'll tell ya' the same thing... I mean, if we're gonna make this guy a hero then why not report the stories of every pilot who has had to literally fight a plane onto the runway with 30, 40 and 50 knots crosswinds... Yeah, the onboard computers can handle some of that but there have been thousands of landings where the pilots had to dig deep and depend on the imprinting that training played on their abilities... That ain't "ignorant" on my part... Yeah, the story involves a spectacular landing but not because this guy was some super-hero but because he was in the left seat at the time... But I do agree 100% that alot of people did stuff right... The pilot included... But I don't agree, as the mdia would have you believe, that just about every other pilot would have done the same thing with the same results... That is my point... I think by making this guy, former jet fighter pilot, glider pilot, etc., etc... an exception rather than the rule is a dis-service to commercial pilots everywhere... That's as plain (pun intended) as I can state my opinion... If you want to think that makes me ignorant, Ron, have at it... It's a free country... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 18 Jan 09 - 01:29 PM It is a free country, and you were not in the cockpit - so yes, your comments speak from an ignorance of the facts of the situation. Of course you are allowed to make your opinion,but we have the right to disagree with that opinion and you have to expect that. You are not speaking with all the facts. This was NOT making a landing with crosswinds - which is a difficult manuever but it is not the same scenario. The emergency procedures started at 3000 feet, not 35,000 and while I would suspect he had numerous landings with crosswinds, this was probably his first time ditching a plane in the Hudson River in one of the most populated regions of the country. No one is making him an exception - except perhaps yourself - but they are making him a hero. The man is a hero, regardless of your opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: InOBU Date: 18 Jan 09 - 01:34 PM http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorcanotway/ Hi folks, here is the web address (thanks Eric) and it is the first page today, after a few days, use flight 1549 as a search term. Cheers lor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 02:20 PM Bobert: It is quite true the media have made the most of it. That's something they do theses days. But it's also a fact that the pilot and the co-pilot and the flight attendants did their company proud, and were well served by Lady Luck into the bargain. 100% of passengers alive and very few injuries. That is indeed a "Miracle On The Hudson". I think you are 'peatin yoresel' bro', cuz' you gave such a outlandis' reply on 'count o' yo missin' yore lucy luv show. Me, I'm waiting for the first lawsuit ro roll in! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:13 PM Listen, ron... I didn't say that the guy landed the plane with corss winds.... I said that pilots have to land planes in all kinds of foul weather conditions... This is where they imprint and hone the feel of what is occuring during various difficult landing situations... If you think that is nt a fact then talk with some real pilots... So in order to become a license commercial pilot one has to have gone thru these exercises... It's kinda like playing geetar... The more you have done it the more imprinting.... Then when you are in a situation where someone in yer band is messin' up you have things that you have imprinted that take over and save the song... Nevermind, Ron... Go back to yer hero worshipin'... Now, as fir you, roboskie... That "I Love Lucy" was a little joke... I haven't seen one of them shows in the last 30 years... Okay, I fot some bootlegged "Amos and Andy" shows on VCR but I don't wacth 'um either... CNN and sports is about it fior me... Opps, Eagles and Cardinals on.... Gotta go... Go Cards... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:22 PM Is Sullenberger a "hero?" I think that depends on what one's definition of "hero" is. But he is certainly worthy of high praise indeed. I just had a chat on the phone with my brother-in-law, John, the retired airline pilot. He and my sister are on their way home from Colorado, where they were visiting my nephew, David, and his wife. David is also an airline pilot, following in his father's footsteps, but flying in a slightly different direction—John flew for Northwest, David flies for Southwest. Pat (my sister) and John are stopping off for a week at their place on Flathead Lake in Montana before coming home to Seattle, and they gave Barbara and me a call. John and I talked a bit about the Hudson River landing, and John's comment was that the pilot did a fine job, doing exactly what he was supposed to do and doing it well—a combination of luck and the skill to take advantage of it. Many pilots would have tried to make it back to the airport, but when a big jet has suddenly turned into a glider (not to mention that some reports said that at least one engine was on fire), that could be a real crap shoot. Sullenberger quickly assessed his options in relation to the geography beneath him and made the judgment call that the best chance to save the passengers and crew was to try to set down in the river—but gently. Once the decision was made, he executed the landing with great skill, which required a cool head a in potentially disastrous situation. Is Sullenberger a hero? He acted coolly and with good judgment in extraordinary circumstances. That makes the cut in my book. John and I talked about bird strikes a bit, and John described how, about twenty-five or thirty years ago, he was flying a 747 out of Glasgow, Scotland when they went through a flock of birds. They were small birds, but there were a lot of them (someone told John they were ringed plovers), and they were vacuumed in by all four engines. The engines still worked, but they were acting up and John knew they'd never make it across the North Atlantic to Boston, so he dumped fuel and headed back to Glasgow, where he set down safely. The airline put John and the rest of the crew up in a nice hotel in Glasgow and apparently forgot about them, so they had about a week's vacation complete with flight pay until the company remembered they were there and brought them back. Regarding the screen or grid over the engines, John said that The Powers That Be don't seem to regard the ingestion of birds to be that much of a problem. They have bench-tested various engines, basically firing frozen turkeys into a running engine, and most of the time, it simply fricassees the bird without doing any damage. At the speed of impact, he wondered if even a stout screen would do any good. But the Hudson River incident may bring about a reassessment of the problem. John did say that the Northrup F-89 Scorpions that he flew when he was in the Montana Air National Guard did have "engine shields." By the way, when John was showing me around Malmstrom AFB in Montana back in 1961, I saw a couple of these F-89s sitting in a hangar. They're much bigger than they appear in the photo. The fuselage is about the size of a bus! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009 From: Amos Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:46 PM The pilot hasn't been allowed to just go home, Bobeaire, because the NTSB is taking evidence. Nothing more strange than that. As for his performance, the thing about it that is noteworthy is that he had the cool presence of mind to make a very tough judgement call in almost no time, and execute it correctly. Sure it was partly his training in play, of course; but he had the spine to do it right, and he was the last man off the plane making sure his poeple were all away and clear. That's good piloting, you ask me. There are hundreds of airline pilots who could have done a much worse job, training or no. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:55 PM I'd hate to think that, Amos... I think by the time that a pilot has the ten gazillion hours it takes to get a commerical license that that pilot is purdy welled skilled... Draggin' one tail ain't difficult... Just pull back on the yoke (or joy stick) and the nose will lift fir ya... Purdy elementary proceure... Thanks, Don, for yer report... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:00 PM Bobort: you remind me of the story of the guy who was bitchin' about a mechanic'bill. He happened to see that the replacement part was $1 American. The bill was fer $100 (that's "a hunnert" in Bo-talk). He demanded the bill be broke down in terms he could unnerstan', sorta like you're askin' for by beein' so condesendin' as to the skills of Mr. Sully. The bill came: Replacement part- $1 Knowin' which part to replace: $ 99 Sorta like that. the pilot flew, or more properly, glided, a hundered ton behemoth of metal and flesh, into a soft landin' on a material yon plane was not designed to impact - water. Moreover, he got EVERYONE out alive. I'm pretty sure it ain't been done before. Actual-wize, it was a dead-stick water landing you be down talkin' yon Sully but yore just expositing on yore ignance, You 'mind me of yon actor who was butcherin' the graveyard scene of Hammlet, he had all the words, but he was off'n everthing else. Yon crowed was vexed and began peltin' 'im with pnces and playbill. Yon actor finlly got upset enuff t'brake charcter and yelled: "whut you mad at me for? I didn't write this crap!" so bobo take a peaceful dump and try to get it outer yer sysem, bro. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:13 PM It's not exactly as if he could try it again if he screwed it up the first time. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM Also he was goin a hunnert knots, racin' boat speed. At least. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:26 PM First of all, the weight of the plane is a red herring... Don't much matter if it weighs 1000 pounds or a gazillion pounds, roboz... What matters is stall speed, yer air speed and yer glide path... Now I ain't all that ceratin what the stall speed was but once you get there it gets tough to get the nose of the plane up 'cause you ain't gotta nuff momentum fir that but I'd guess that the stall speed on that plane to be 'bout a hunnert knots... Maybe a little more... but if you is coming down you can get yer knots way the heck up... Plenty fir the big finale'... Shoot, I no longer care about this... The Cardinals are up on the Eagles late in the 3rd quarter... As for the $1 part??? Man, that's a bummer... That ain't never happened to me but then again my junk is so old that I understand it and know which $1 part it needs... Now back to the game... BTW, I gotta a call into Sully... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 06:24 PM Cardinals Win!!! Good God, Hallaluah!!! Now thems is some heros... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 06:45 PM "Miracles happen because of years and years of training" (NTSB statement made a short time ago)... I rest my case... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 07:19 PM what case? you make it apparent you don't unnerstan' yore physical limitations bringin yon honkin' big rig jet to rest with the innards still livin'. don' let the dore hityassend on yer wayout bobo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 07:47 PM I never was challenged to land a jet witrh 155 people on board on the3 Hudson River, robz... I was challenged to land a Piper Cun in the river... Problem is that I don't have one to crash 'er I'd consider it... Back a few years ago I challenged George Bush to a carrier landing after the "Mission Accomplished" faked landing on the carries by the Shrub... I said that if he would land on the sumabich I'd do it with a tail dragger Piper Cub... He never got back to me on that one... No matter, i knew if I could have gotten Bush to agree to the "land-off" then I could get someone to lend me their Cub... I mean, who wouldn't wnat to see this ol' hillbilly land a Cub on an aircraft carrier but I know I coulda done it with a hunnert feet to spare... Shoot, give me a Kit Fox and I'd make it two hunert feet to spare seein' as it has a stall speed of like, ahhhhh, 40 knots... Gotta tie that baby down 'er it's goin' flyin' by itself... Sho nuff... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 08:16 PM "I never was challenged to land a jet witrh 155 people on board on the3 Hudson River, robz... I was challenged to land a Piper Cun in the river... Problem is that I don't have one to crash 'er I'd consider it..." Prolly a good thing, thar, bert. After all, with the power off, you know you're gonna be on the surface shortly. Question is, whut shape you and yer souls aboard are gonna be in. Early returns from the black boxes are that both powerplants terminated at the same time. About ten years ago, a four engine jet was takin' off Elmendorf, other end of town from me. Ran into a flock of Canada geese and went down, big fiery wreck, loss of all aboard. What happened on the Hudson was a combination of everything good, and if that ain't what makes a miracle I dunno what is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 18 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM Well, yeah.... I do consider it a miracle is many ways... It was a miracle that the plane got enough altitude for the pilot to have some options.... It was a miracle that there weren't no boats blocking his runway... It was a miracle that there were ferries close by to pick everyone up... I think that's about all the miracles... But, as fir the landin', that was all trainin'... I would like to think that if I had had more discipline and become a "licensed" pilot that I could have pulled off the same river landing... I think I could pull it off in a Piper of Cesna right now but the Piper but the landing gear would prolly flip the plane... Now a Piper Cherkee??? Different story... I think I could land it just the way that Sully did it... Okay, it wouldn't float as long... Maybe a minute or two... There wouldn't be any standin' on the wings waiting for the ferries... But I'm glad that ther NTSB has validated my arguements by suggestin' that most trained pilots, if not all, would have done the same thing with the same results... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 18 Jan 09 - 09:52 PM Bobo: If wishes were horses. . . maybe if you were superman you could fly around the world backwards and prevent the whole thang from hapnin'... I thought your argument was that it was no special thing and interrupted your valuable television watching. You've actually shifted your argument to technique as opposed to success. Before you were arguing that the pilot's success was no special thing and now you're graning that it was a miracle in many ways. You hint you know enough about planes to crash one and that sounds believable enough. I think the most helpful thing most of us could do would be to shift to a diet with more goose in it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: InOBU Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:02 AM Photo page flight 1549 in hudson river Hey guys... stop arguing and go look at the photos!!! I froze my butt off to take em! Cheers lor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:15 AM Bobert, I know this "southern hick" personna that you have created through your postings on Mudcat is probably entering into the tone of the current posts you are making in this thread, but I think your complaints about this pilot being called a "hero" are a bit odd. I don't think you realize how you are coming across - and usually you are one of the brightest posters on these boards, once the reader sorts through the slang and humor. This isn't some crop-duster being set down in the creek next to the old fishing hole - this was a very large jet with 155 people on board experiencing a catasrophic emergency over one of the most populated areas on the globe - an area that is still jittery after witnessing 9/11 first hand. Everyone agrees with you that pilots receive training on this type of emergency. I would bet good money that even with all that training, the first reaction would be to crap in your pants and pray and then recall procedures. We want to believe that we are in safe hands and that all pilots will react the same, but I think we all realize - and even you probably admit it - that human nature enters into the circumstance. This pilot DID HIS JOB under difficult circumstances, and while your ego might prevent you from admitting it, he IS a hero. By logically following your complaint that he cannot be considered a hero because he simply followed the training that every pilot learns, then the same "rule" would be applied to everyone who serves in the Armed Forces, works in law enforcement, fire departments, school teachers, etc. These individuals are trained to handle all sorts of emergencies and situations, so by your thought process we should not be considering them heros if they are simply doing their job. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 19 Jan 09 - 01:34 PM What Ron just said! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bonzo3legs Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:29 PM I almost believe that some folks just do not like good news, because they can't weep and wail about it!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: InOBU Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:41 PM Grumble grumble grumble, mutter mutter, jeeze, grumble, ya freeze yer butt off... grumble mutter... and all yer mates wanna do is go at each other... grumble mutter (gulp a big chug of whiskey) grumbutterwazzagromph... and they don't even check out the photos... just slag each other... humph... lor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bonzo3legs Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:42 PM "I almost believe that some folks just do not like good news, because they can't weep and wail about it for years afterwards!!!" ....particularly some USAians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bill D Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:22 PM I looked, Lorcan..I really did! *grin* now whatever you think about 'heros' or how many pilots could have done that landing, I'd guess that Sullenberger would not bet that he could pull it off perfectly again...or even 7 out of 10! He was skilled, he made the right choice, and he got it right the first time...that's all we know, or need to know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: bfdk Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:36 PM Lorcan, I looked through your pictures, and they're excellent. Thanks for posting the link. I'd be interested to know if you use a tripod for the night shots, or do you have extremely steady hands? What settings do you use for shots like that (speed/aperture/ISO..)? Best wishes, Bente |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: dick greenhaus Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:37 PM It's enough to reflect that this was a situation where everyone did the right thing. And it worked! That's a miracle! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:39 PM Have a look at this shot in InOBU's set with another skein of geese flying past the salvage crane. I see the pilot's been invited along to Obama's inaugauration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: InOBU Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:58 PM Hi McGrath... thanks, yes, they seem to be flying the lost man (goose?) formation! Dear Bente: As to night shots, I use a mono-pod, tucked under my arm, like a rifle stock, and often steady my arm on a parapet, or other object. With the counter ballence of the monopod one can get a very steady shot. I seldom extend it to the ground, as it makes framing a shot quickly, a problem. The ISO was 1600, and the shots into the OEM van were a floresent setting on the white ballence, and the others a tungston setting. Thanks to all, and what a wonderful story. Cheers lor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:07 PM Well, well, well... Maybe it's a matter of how one defines hero... Martin Luther King was a hero... When the plane when down in the Potomac 20 years ago in subfreezing temperatures there was as man who dove in the water to save a woman... He, IMHO, was a hero... The guy who jumps on a hand grenade is a hero... I mean, heros willingly put their lives on the line by choice... Sully did what he had to do... He had no other "choice" but to land ther plane in the water... But at 3000 feet he had time to collect his thoughts and run thru the physics part of ther landing... That was a good thing... Maybe a miracle??? (lol)... Had this occured at 500 feet things would have been a lot tougher because he'd have less time and less of a glide path which would have cut down on his choices or time to evaluate them... I guess that was a miracle (lol)... Yeah, okay... The guy did a fine job... No, make that a superb job... No, make that text-book perfect job... Operative word here is "job"... It his his job... That is why we have pilots on commercial airliners, folks... To do a fine job when they have to do a fine job... If it weren't for things like geese attacks there would really be no need for pilots since the planes purdy much fly themselves... (Huh, BOberdz...) That's right... Computers takes the sumabiches off, fly them from point A to Point B and then land them... The pilot tapes the brake at the end of the flight and unless something bad happens that's about it... (But, Boberdz... That's not the way it is in the movies...) No, but that's the way it is with commercial airplanes... But now with Obama coming into office I reckon folks just want some heros so I tell ya' what I'm gonna do... Seein' as tomorrow is innaguration day and I'm feeling good I'll just give in if it'll make everyone all warm and fuzzy and give Sully a "Boberdz Hero Badge"... Yes, sir 'er Ma-am... Yer a hero, Sully... Now go home to yer wife 'n kids, will ya... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:24 PM Shucks pardner, that is mighty nice of you all. Iz sure that Sully will be sleppin purdy good tonight knowing that youse in his corner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: InOBU Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM Well... Bobert... I think the fellow who brings a hip flask to freezing photogs is a hero. There was a hero Sat. A nice Swiss fellow named Jan. He didn't have a hip flask, but he did have a bit of a candy bar for a freezing photog. So, he gets a silver star, if he had a hip flask, I would give him a gold star. Frankly, whenever I get off a plane in one piece, I consider everyone from the bagage handlers up, a hero... especially the cabin staff who keep me well hydrated - lor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:54 PM Anyone with a flask is a hero... I mean, I reckon that makes me a hero, too, 'casue I been known to "carry"... Which remonds me... I used to perform with a feller who made the best moonshine and would show up at various gigs with his flask... Man, geeze o' pete, that stuff was good... As fir landin' in one piece my brother, who is a pilot, says that "any landing you walk away from is a good one"... Lol... Reminds me of my first landing.... I must have enjoyed the crap out of 'cause I musta bounced and relanded half a dozen times but I finally got the sumabich on the ground... I was still shakin' an hour later but I guess the ol' guy who was talkin' me thru it wasn't concerned 'cause he never took the plane back over... (He was drunk, Boberdz...) Well, yeah... Funny thing about the way things used to be.... We had a dirt field 'bout 1/2 mile from where I gre up and it had a "club house" where these old WW II pilots would hang out and drenk... I loved flyin' so my dad would take me over there and give one of 'um a few bucks to take me up... None ever made much of a deal (or any deal, for that matter) about them drinkin'??? So I learned to fly by going up with half-drunk pilots in old tail draggers... See, that's what I don't understand... Hey, what'sa couple of drenks??? I mean, it calms yer nerves if you get attacked by a bunch of stupid birds but no, you can't do that... I ain't talking fallin' down .025 drunk... Just a couple of Iron Cities... I prolly shouldn't say this but I used to have a little mini-stocker.... We do ten lap'ers 'tween the main events... On an 3/8 miles oval that means the speeds might get to 70 or so on the back and front strethes but not much more but, hey, 70 with hald a dozen cars all around bangin' on ya' is fast enough... So before the race there were a couple of us who'd suck down a couple chilly ones... Hey, calmed the nerves... Never did have a serious wreck, you know drivin' on the roof of the car... Nevermind... Congrates, Captain Sully... Yer award is on the way... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:24 PM Computers do it all? A lot of it, yeah. But I'm quite sure the crew is there for more than just decoration. I'll be seeing my brother-in-law, the airline pilot, in a couple of weeks. I'll check with him. Scenario: Large airliner takes off from a major airport on an international flight. The intercom comes on with the captain's voice making the usual announcements—weather, altitude, airspeed, estimated time of arrival at the destination—then continues with "Ladies and gentlemen, this is a historic flight. Although there are flight attendants to serve your needs, the operation of this aircraft is completely automated. There is neither pilot nor second officer. The aircraft is being flown by a sophisticated and thoroughly tested computer. Be assured that you are perfectly safe and that absolutely nothing can go wrong (tic) go wrong (tic) go wrong (tic) go wrong (tic) go wrong. . . ." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:31 PM By the way, when I commented in an above post that I have worked a Boeing as a production illustrator and that "the 727-200 number 2 engine firewall is mine!" be it also noted that on the early 747s, the brackets for the lights in the ladies' john are mine also. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:40 PM LOL, Don-o... Commercial pilots all cover their backs and so yer brother will tell ya' that he's buzier than a one-leg-man-in-a-butt-whup contest... Yeah, maybe catchin' up on the sports page, 'er listening to that new "Matallica" CD (lol)... But really, Don-o... The pilots don't do much once they are taxied and ready for take-off... But, in their defense, they are stone sober... Well, most of 'um.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Don Firth Date: 19 Jan 09 - 08:44 PM Okay. But I'm sure I can get the straight scoop from John. He's that kinda guy. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Bobert Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM Get him drunk... He'll tell all... lol... Actually, I've got 2 friends who are commercial pilots and one who does soemthing on AirForceOne... Had a few chi8lly ones with all of them... Then there is my brother... Ahhhhh, not commercial but, ahhhhhhh, wierd... Has time in military similators (Don't ask me)... Has taken aerobatics training... Yeah, he knows stuff... Not sure why, but he does??? Yeah, Don-o... Get bro drunk and "he'll tell everything he knows"... Guarenteed... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: robomatic Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:26 PM Lessee bobo: you may not know whut yo're a talkin' about, but you know or are close to a bunch a guys that does . . . sounds like a winer. gitalong now lil hiporamus! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:16 AM For your reading pleasure. SRS Commuter ferries to rescue in NYC crash landing Newsday.com January 18, 2009 NEW YORK - When a crippled jetliner pancaked into the Hudson River last Thursday, the first rescuers on the scene were not police or the U.S. Coast Guard, but a handful of ferries that offer visitor tours and shuttle commuters between New Jersey and Manhattan. Within minutes, even before the first police divers dropped into the frigid river and emergency-equipped watercraft got there, the sightseeing and commuter ferries were close enough to begin plucking passengers off the wings of the wallowing A320 Airbus. It wasn't the first time these ferries _ the ugly ducklings of New York's harbor waters _ had responded to an emergency that happened right outside their wheelhouse windows. When two hijacked jetliners crashed into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, commuter ferries bringing morning rush-hour workers from Jersey City, Weehawken and Hoboken, N.J., abruptly turned themselves into evacuation craft, transporting thousands of dazed and frightened people from the scene to safety across the Hudson. Some ferries were pressed into service again to evacuate people stranded by a massive power blackout in the summer of 2003. Homely and utilitarian, river ferries have been a fixture in Gotham for well over 100 years, before bridges connected Manhattan to Brooklyn and New Jersey. One of the oldest and most famous ferry craft are the Staten Island ferries that ply the harbor between the lower tip of Manhattan and the city's outermost borough, five miles away. These orange boats provide not only free, 24-hour commuter service but also quick round-trip tours for visitors. Other ferries take tourists to three historic spots in the harbor _ Ellis Island, the former reception hall for millions of immigrants to the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries, the nearby Statue of Liberty, and Governors Island, a former military base. The commercial ferry business, once moribund, underwent a resurgence right after Sept. 11, when crippled subway service in downtown Manhattan nearly doubled ridership on private ferry operations. The main role in the air crash was taken by New York Waterway, whose Weehawken, N.J.-based ferry fleet shuttles tens of thousands of commuters from northern New Jersey to Manhattan's west side. Three of its ferries rescued 142 of the 156 people on US Airways flight 1549, according to company CEO and president Arthur Imperatore Sr. The blue and white jetliner, its twin engines disabled by a flock of geese on takeoff from LaGuardia Airport, splashed down in mid-river with all the grace of an aquaplane _ just as the New York Waterway ferry Thomas Jefferson was backing away from the company terminal at West 39th Street for a pre-rush hour run to Weehawken. Captain Vincent Lombardi, 32, saw what he first thought was "an odd-looking boat," but quickly realized it was an aircraft. Notifying the Coast Guard by radio, he was first at the scene and within five minutes his crew was pulling the first of 56 passengers aboard. The pilot, Chesley Sullenberger, had looked for boats nearby in deciding where to ditch his aircraft, the NTSB said. Within minutes of the plane's crash landing, at least six ferries and a number of smaller craft, including police and fire department boats, converged on the plane, which was drifting southward at about 3 miles an hour. "It was hard to stay with it," said Brittany Catanzaro, the 20-year-old captain of the New York Waterway ferry Governor Thomas H. Kean, who picked up 24 survivors. A sister ferry, the Yogi Berra, commanded by Vincent Lucante, retrieved an infant and a toddler, and when they started to cry it was "the best sound that we could hear," he said. Others who rushed to the scene included two high-speed catamaran ferries, the Athenia and the Admiral Richard E. Bennis, which were docked in Weehawken, and the ferry Moira Smith. There was also one private craft, a former Coast Guard work boat whose owner, Scott Koen, 50, of Rutherford, N.J., was cleaning up when he heard a radio call and raced to the site a mile away. "When you can pull 150 people out of the water and nobody dies, there's nothing to compare it with _ this is the one," said Koen, who retrieved about six survivors. "There were a lot of brave people in the water that day and they were all worried about each other, not themselves." Flight attendants get high praise in Hudson River rescue USA Today WASHINGTON — Pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger has garnered most of the headlines for safely piloting a crippled jet onto the Hudson River, but investigators and aviation workers say there is an unsung group that also deserves praise: the three flight attendants on board. Sheila Dail, 57, Doreen Welsh, 58, and Donna Dent, 51 — with a combined 92 years of experience on the job — were the ones who opened emergency exits, ordered passengers to don life jackets and directed them out of the plane. All 150 passengers escaped. "They did everything right," said Mike Flores, who heads the wing of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA-CWA) union, which represents the three. "Had they made one mistake, we would be talking about a completely different outcome than we saw on Thursday." Including the co-pilot, all five members of the crew were invited to attend today's presidential inauguration. According to information from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the airline, Dail and Dent were seated at the front of the cabin. They told investigators they shouted "Brace!" just before landing and then directed passengers to life rafts on the left and right side. Welsh was seated at the rear, where the landing was more violent, the NTSB said. She waded in chest-high frigid water, directing passengers to exit over the wings, she told investigators. Only after all the passengers had escaped did she realize she had suffered a deep cut on her leg, NTSB member Kitty Higgins said. Higgins grew emotional Sunday describing the crew's performance. "This is a testament to experienced women doing their jobs," she said. Sullenberger, 58, and co-pilot Jeffrey Skiles, 49, who themselves have a total of 50 years at the airline, deserve plenty of credit for steering Flight 1549 into the Hudson after hitting a flock of birds, said several attendants, including AFA-CWA leaders. But after enduring years of pay cuts, layoffs and what they see as decreasing respect from the public, it's time to give the attendants their due, they said. "Knowing what it entailed to get those people out safely just gives you chills," said retired flight attendant Jeannie Cox, 51, of St. Petersburg, Fla., who flew for 19 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Plane Ditches In Hudson River (15 Jan 2009) From: bfdk Date: 20 Jan 09 - 04:48 AM Lorcan, thanks for explaining. A friend of mine also uses a monopod and swears by its efficiency. I'd consider getting one once I get a decent camera again. I'm amazed you can get it steady enough with the monopod merely acting as counter balance, though. I have come across the difficulty of framing a shot when using a tripod, suppose it's the same with a mono. I think those shots are very clear for ISO 1600, what camera do you use? Best wishes, Bente Terry, if you haven't posted while I typed this, you're malingering! (100) |
