BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes

Subject: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:19 AM

Is this possible?

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:28 AM

If they love each other, absolutely. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Michael
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:34 AM

If they could would the ofspring be Blushes?

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:34 AM

Is this a racial question or one of genetics? I recently saw pictures of Tigons and Ligers - the result of lions and tigers mating in captivity. The animal was HUGE!

In ancient times marriages were arranged between royal children of warring tribes to ensure peace. I have often thought that arranged marriages might be the key to peace in the Middle East, Ireland, NYC.

haven't had my coffee yet - sorry, I'm babbling.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:07 AM

I'm sure they could, the crucial question is whether they would produce viable offspring. I've never heard of, still less seen myself, such a thing.

Until just now, when out of curiosity I googled "blackbird thrush hybrid" and came across
this discussion

and followed the link to this picture

So yes, it would appear it's possible, though not very common.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:25 AM

I'd say it's possible for any species of animal to mate with any other of relatively similar physique. It's all just a matter of finding someone willing to hold the female participant down long enough for the indignity to be completed.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:34 AM

They are both the same genus Turdus [lovely name] but generally they keep themselves to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:58 AM

On a more serious note than my previous post...

Let's not forget that most animals mate only when the female is in estrus. At that time, she is producing chemicals and exhibiting behaviors that excite males of her species. For cross-species mating to occur naturally, the chemical and behavioral cues from a female of species A must be similar enough to those normally given off by a female of species B to arouse a male of species B.

Humans are the only animals who willfully have sex with members of other species. When it occurs in other species, it's due to chemically-induced confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:45 PM

Just to make things clear, the Common Blackbird of Europe is in the genus Turdus and so is the American Robin.

The group if birds American call "blackbids" are in another family: Icteridae.

Hybridization within a genus is not rare. Between gerera, less common and unlikely to produce fertile offspring. Between groups holding different taxonomic levels called "families", rare and almost certain to produce no fertile progeny.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:47 PM

That's often the reason humans do it to.. sometimes they HAVE to be confused chemically to have sex with anything.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM

And do blackbirds suffer from 'Thrush'????

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:11 PM

very true Liz while directing traffic one evening i saw a chemically confused male of the human genus attempting to mate with what was presumably a female of the genus lampost. And no I didnt cause any crashes

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:56 PM

Oddly enough in today's Guardian there is this article Evolution: Charles Darwin was wrong about the tree of life:

"Evolutionary biologists say crossbreeding between species is far more common than previously thought, making a nonsense of the idea of discrete evolutionary branches

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:24 PM

Just like any human who claims to be of "pure __________ blood."

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:32 PM

From Dan Quinn's version of The Little Ball of Yarn -

Said the blackbird to the thrush
"You are my turtle dove."

At least one of those birds needs counselling.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:49 PM

From the New Scientist article:

"Microbes swap genetic material so promiscuously it can be hard to tell one type from another, but animals regularly crossbreed too - as do plants - and the offspring can be fertile. According to some estimates, 10 per cent of animals regularly form hybrids by breeding with other species.

"Last year, scientists at the University of Texas at Arlington found a strange chunk of DNA in the genetic make-up of eight animals, including the mouse, rat and the African clawed frog. The same chunk is missing from chickens, elephants and humans, suggesting it must have become wedged into the genomes of some animals by crossbreeding."

Ha!

What can happen between microbes, and what can happen between vertebrates are very different things. And what is entirely missing from this article is the microbe-mediated shuffling of DNA that goes on -- microbe (viral phage or bacterial) DNA can be inserted in the genome of the species infected, and similarly DNA can be copied out and transferred via the microbe's genome.

Certainly, things are much more complex than anyone knew...

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:49 PM

Megan, ROFLMAO.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:58 PM

Snail.[
in my version,
its o no my turtle dove your the only one I love, wont you let me wind your little ball of yarn.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:40 PM

My Uncle used to breed "mules", which were bullfinch x canary,or greenfinch x canary.....I remember they were the most beautiful colours.....couldn't sing though.
Wild birds of different species in captivity, can mate,construct nests and lay eggs, but they are very rarely fertile.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:51 PM

"I did not have sex with that thrush!"

Well, Mr. B-bird... Define sex...

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:05 PM

Better yet, define "thrush". Or "have".

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:11 PM

"And do blackbirds suffer from 'Thrush'????"

"I did not have sex with that thrush!"

Actually, what Bill Clinton was diagnosed with was "strep throat of the penis".

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: skipy
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM

Clawed is a stupid name for a frog!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:51 PM

The European Blackbird seems to recognise their relationship to Thrushes, in that they are territorial and try to chase off other Blakbirds AND ALSO Thrushes. They ignore such other direct competitors as Starlings, Sparrows, Waxeyes and Mynahs (this in NZ.)

I thought this might be a step on the way to an inter-species relationship.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:18 PM

For cross-species mating to occur naturally, the chemical and behavioral cues from a female of species A must be similar enough to those normally given off by a female of species B to arouse a male of species B.

But what if he just struck out with the one that excited him and is just working off pent up residual arousal 'cause some other big hulkin' bird scored with the one he wanted?

It seems to work that way with a couple of species^* I've observed.

^* English, Irish, Polish, French, Italian ...

John

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:53 PM

Captain Birdseye

in my version,
its o no my turtle dove your the only one I love, wont you let me wind your little ball of yarn.

Must exist in lots of hybrid versions. There are three in the DT, none of which mention turtle doves at all.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:38 PM

American Bison (aka Buffalo) will breed with domestic cattle in areas where their ranges overlap. Unlike mules, which are infertile, bison/cattle crosses ("beefalo") are fertile hybrids.   As a result, almost the entire bison gene pool has been polluted with domestic cow DNA. There are only four herds of American Bison whose genetic makeup is 100% pure bison.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Joe_F
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:43 PM

If the boys were all blackbirds and the girls were all thrushes,
There'd be plenty of hybrids to sing in the bushes,
Sing whack foldediddle dido, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:28 PM

While doing some research to identify birds in my yard, I had recently run across references to dark-eyed juncos and white-throated sparrows interbreeding. Just did a little more research and found this, which indicates in the introduction that approximately 10% of bird species interbreed.

It is a bit technical, but an interesting read, nontheless.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:55 PM

But do those four herds of bison wear white dressing gowns?

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:04 PM

Of course, no thread on cross-breeding can be allowed to slip by without mention of Mudcat's own resident hybrid, Gluon the Duckdog.

Gluon is a Mallairedale (a cross between a Mallard and an Airedale) who sometimes exists as a particle, sometimes as a wave, and whose velocity and location cannot both be known at the same time. His entire vocabulary consists of the word "QUARK!", a cross between "quack" and "bark", but always spoken in uppercase bold. By subtle variation of tone and emphasis, he is able to communicate a multitude of ideas with that single word.

Gluon's favorite activities are hyperspatial travel, neutrino juggling, and humping Rapaire's leg.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: bubblyrat
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:20 AM

" If I were a Blackbird,I'd simper and blush,
   If I was approached by an amorous Thrush...."

       But even in New Zealand, sex with Mynahs is proscribed.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

"American Bison (aka Buffalo) will breed with domestic cattle"

Passing blackbird, flying by
Dropped a message from the sky.
Angry farmer wipes his eye
And says.....
....thank goodness cows can't fly.

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:13 PM

I've just read through the thread, and no-one seems to have remembered the yarn or thought to warn, that the blackbird and the thrush they sing out from every bush,keep your hand upon your little ball (of yarn).

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: JennieG
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:49 PM

I have seen the result of a mating between two very different Ozzie birds, the galah (largish pink and grey bird) and sulphur crested cockatoo (larger, white with yellow crest). The cockalah's body was mottled grey and white feathers and the head was orange, obviously the mixing of the galah's pink head and the cockatoo's yellow crest. Although unusual it was quite striking, I reckon there could be a market for those birds.

The woman who owned it (it lived in a pet shop) said it was the result of a mating between two very frustrated birds who both lived in captivity.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:57 PM

So if tigons are a cross between tigers and lions, how the hell did the turtle-dove get its name? And can I have some mental floss to get rid of the image in my brain?!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: can blackbirds mate with thrushes
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:41 PM

I believe that a blackbird is a kind of thrush, so it may be possible.

When I visited Europe and got a good luck at a blackbird, I realized that the European blackbird is an American robin in a black suit. Same walk, same tolerance of people, same fine singing, same golden ring around the eye...

BWL, thanks very much for the info about the mallardaire. Especially the picture and the description of its call. Quark!