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BS: Census Nazis
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Subject: BS: Census Nazis From: SINSULL Date: 12 Mar 09 - 08:13 AM A 'Catter posted that he had an unpleasant interaction with a census taker and I wondered if anyone else had been on the receiving end of the counters? In the 80s I received the "Long Form" in the census which meant I had to fill out pages of stupid questions including whether or not I had indoor plumbing. I filled out the form and then was put on a list of people to be "tracked" for ten years until the next census. Supposedly this was to track changes in the population and determine funding for schools, roads, etc. That meant that this woman (paid) would show up and ask more stupid questions. I went along with it and only answered questions I was willing to answer until one night she showed up at my door with no warning (it was supposed to be by appointment only) after 9PM with her list of questions. I was on the phone and my son was in bed, I told her I could not do it then and she left very annoyed."This is Federal business." Around 11PM she came back, rang the doorbell again, woke my son again and asked was I ready now. I threw her out. Her parting jab was that she was a Federal Employee and she would fix me. I called the Census Bureau and told tham that I would have her arrested if she rang my doorbell again.They apologized, were sure I misunderstood and yadayadayada. They replaced her with three others. The first reviewed my last form - the bitch had filled it in herself. After that I was never available and eventually they went away. A friend also got the "long form" and wisely answered the stupid questions stupidly - he had the only functioning outhouse in Jackson Heights. He wasn't "invited" to participate in the ten year program. So I know how to handle my civic duty this time around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 12 Mar 09 - 08:32 AM All I can say is, being a census worker is a very difficult, unpleasant, and thankless (and sometimes dangerous) job. I know. I've done it myself. And the pay isn't all that great either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ron Davies Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:06 PM "Census Nazi" is a bit strong. They can however waste a lot of your time. Jan and I were surveyed--several months in a row. And despite the fact that we told them--over and over, month to month--that nothing had changed, they insisted on reading the same list of questions every time. And they got exactly the same answers--which I told them at the start of the call (fortunately it was calls, not visits--so I could listen to Vivaldi, Dvorak, etc. at the same time.) I suspect many people would not have gone through with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 12 Mar 09 - 10:53 PM They have to read them. It's not a census if they don't. And they pester people because their supervisors make them. And their supervisors' supervisors make the supervisors be strict with the census workers. And the supervisors of the supervisors of the supervisors, etc, etc, etc... all the way up to the people who run the whole show, who are accountable to the US Constitution, which is the highest authority in the country, and a damn fine one, too if you ask me. There are good reasons for the questions they ask and the methods they use. The census benefits the voters. Answering the census is as much a civic duty as voting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Mar 09 - 01:38 AM As many of you know, I worked for 25 years as a federal investigator, doing security clearance investigations. After they retired, several of my predecessor investigators worked for the Census, and they really enjoyed it. Because of their investigative experience, they tended to get assignments that were more challenging - and less tedious. Gee, maybe I should consider that next year, if my retirement savings go down any further... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: GUEST,Slag Date: 13 Mar 09 - 02:14 AM If you have ever done genealogical work you will really appreciate how valuable a census can be. IMO though the questions should pertain directly to populations numbers. The picayune details of plumbing and how many slaves you own needs to go bye bye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: GUEST,rangeroger Date: 13 Mar 09 - 04:38 AM After the 2000 census I had some of these officious assholes show up at my house. It started with a minivan that passed my house as I drove into my garage. It spun a u-ie and pulled into my driveway. The driver jumped out and inormed me he was with the U.S.census and he had some questions to ask me. I told him I had answered all the questions on their form and he should go away as I was not going to answer anymore. He wasn't quite sure how to handle this,but I backed him into his mini-van. He showed up a couple of weeks later and got out about 2 words before he was back in his van. Then came the lady in the camel-hair suit and white blouse. Gold sedan with Washington plates.Laptop in hand. When I opened the door and she began her ramble about needing important information about my address, I told her I wasn't interested and that she could address all her questions to the numbers affixed to the front of the house if that was what she needed. After I had closed the front door she must have stood outside,postulating her position for 10 minutes. I blame all of this for Smelterville showing the largest percentage (33%) of growth for an Idaho city in 2000. Yep, we went from 400 to 600 population. rr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ref Date: 13 Mar 09 - 06:18 AM I guess being properly represented in DC just doesn't matter to you if it causes you an inconvenience at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:17 AM I never thought about it as "tracking." But, I do seem to get the long- form and twice have had the "interview." Come to think of it as a kid the family was interviewed also. Maybe it is the answers we give on the long form. Its rather fun. I would like to Make Some Questions for the next census in eleven years ( I understand they need to be submitted soon.)
How many times did you have candlelight dinners in the past year? - restaurants, blackouts, birthday cakes do not count.
In the interest of making a smaller "carbon footprint" on the planet earth - would you be willing to use washable corncobs in place of toilet tissue? May we leave you with a dozen and have you report back next census?
If you have an automobile - at what pressure do you run your tires?
Yes - I would like to work for the Census.
Sincerely,
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: RangerSteve Date: 13 Mar 09 - 07:27 AM Gargoyle - My pressure cooker came with instructions that recommend not cooking split pea soup in it. OK, I've done my part. You're welcome. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Raptor Date: 13 Mar 09 - 08:19 AM "A census taker once showed up at my door. I ate his liver with some fatha beans and a nice quiante." -Hanibal Lector |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: SINSULL Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:54 AM Threatening me with retribution from the federal government because I objested to a late night doorbell ring is unacceptable. I now have a functioning outhouse. Given the government's inability/refusal to curb illegal immigration, is the census not a bit of a joke? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: SINSULL Date: 13 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM I have an original Census Form pre- 1913 (the year my father was born). I will have to dig it out. But I remember all it lists is the names and ages of the people living in the house. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ron Davies Date: 13 Mar 09 - 09:39 PM Once you have answered census questions in depth in a given month and you tell the census worker nothing has changed in say, your own work hours, the worker should take your word for it, and not insist on reading a further long list of the same questions on that topic that he or she read to you last month--which you then give exactly the same answers to as the preceding month. This would save time for both parties--and minimize alienation of the family being quizzed. If census-taking does not reflect common sense, it's the process which should change, not the people being canvassed. Especially since as it is there are enough people who refuse to participate. It is simply foolish to annoy those who do. And yes, I am fully aware of the value of the census. But the nature of the questions I am talking about would not result in any benefit to the locality. And the questions would still be answered at any rate--just not as laboriously as the clunky bureaucratic process now in place seems to require. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 12:54 AM The census taker does not have any latitude or decision making authority. They are required to do certain things, and if they want to continue to be census takers, they have to do them. The solution is not to take it out on the census takers, but to start writing to people who have the authority to make changes in how the census is taken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Mar 09 - 04:22 AM Well, as an investigator, I was required to ask all the questions - sometimes I'd paraphrase them to make it not so tedious, and after 25 years I was able to sneak them into a normal conversation instead of making it sound like I was reading a list. But if an agency requires a set list of questions, enforcing the requirement is the only way to ensure that the survey is complete. Like I say, the trick is for the census taker to make it sound like he/she is not just reading a list. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 07:19 AM For rank and file census takers, the ones who only do that job for a relatively short period of time once in ten years (which is what I did), it's unlikely that they will develop the level of skill in interviewing people that someone who does it every day for their entire career would do. I don't know much about the workers who do follow-up interviews, because I never did that kind of work, so I don't know if they are career census workers or just people who do the work sporadically like the ones who do the regular interviews. However, I think that the nature of the questions in the census are of a much more statistical nature than questions that someone would ask in a background check, and I think they would be much more difficult to put into a conversational kind of context. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ron Davies Date: 14 Mar 09 - 07:39 AM The census taker can take the comments of the people he or she surveys back to HQ and tell them the legalistic way the census is taken is alienating the very people the census is trying to reach. By the way, I did not take my annoyance out on the census takers--but I did tell them the system has to change. Especially the insistence on asking the very same questions month after month, even when the citizen tells you at the start in a given category that nothing has changed. I don't accept that bureaucracies can't be improved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 07:47 AM Rank and file census takers don't have access to HQ. When I was doing census work, we were trained and under the supervision of someone who worked out of her home, and we met for training in a church basement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ron Davies Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:02 AM They should still pass along suggestions up the hierarchy--and not make excuses why they can't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: meself Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:07 AM What makes you so sure they don't "pass along suggestions up the hierarchy"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Ron Davies Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:24 AM I implied that from Carol's comments. Perhaps that was unfair. But I would certainly hope they would do so. After all, it would make their own jobs easier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:56 AM I doubt that reports of complaints would get past the supervisor. I didn't get any specific complaints myself... just a generalized sort of antagonism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Maryrrf Date: 14 Mar 09 - 10:42 AM I would have no objection to filling out the long form and answering questions by a census worker. I understand that although the quesitons may seem pointless, the government needs the data for some obscure but possibly legitimate reason. But I would expect them to call before coming to the house and to come at a reasonable time. After 9:00 pm is not reasonable, and after 11:00 pm is outrageous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: SINSULL Date: 14 Mar 09 - 11:49 AM That was my problem, Mary. Even telemarketers are legally prevented from calling after 9PM, at least in Maine. I felt it a civic duty to fill out the census accurately and agreed to the long term census because I was convinced it was of value to the community. I was treated very badly and threatened. All bets are off if you threaten me. No access to HQ? I guess I can stop worrying about retribution from the Federal government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM I think people would be surprised by how bare bones the census operations are. It's structured a lot like grassroots organizing, believe it or not. At least at the local level, and with regard to the low level operation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: jacqui.c Date: 14 Mar 09 - 02:33 PM I wonder how many posters here actually READ SINSULL's first post completely? From the follow on posts it doesn't look as if some did. Mary wasn't complaining about the census per se - rather the way in which individuals carry out the job. I would agree with her that anyone insensitive enough to turn up on the doorstep after 9.00pm and to then come back at 11.00pm should not be doing that particular job. I would have done exactly the same thing as Mary and called to complain. What some posters seem to have missed is that Mary was prepares to put herself out to do here civic duty, but her treatment was such that she has been put off the idea as a result. Maybe there needs to be better training of census takers to make sure that they understand that the people they are contacting are doing their civic duty and should be accorded a certain degree of respect and consideration. I guess being properly represented in DC just doesn't matter to you if it causes you an inconvenience at all.. I would think that two unannounced visits, at 9.00pm and 11.00pm are rather more than 'inconvenience. Threatening someone, I would also suggest, is more than just inconvenience - it's downright criminal behaviour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: CarolC Date: 14 Mar 09 - 03:01 PM The part that my posts were mostly a response to was the last paragraph in which misleading the census takers seems to be a preferred way to deal with them, not only by the poster, but also by one of the poster's friends. I agree that the behavior of the particular census worker described in the opening post was totally out of line. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Art Thieme Date: 14 Mar 09 - 03:45 PM It's about privacy. Recent times, situations, administrations plus Nat. Security issues have made folks, if not paranoid, somewhat more protective. Staying below the radar is a querencia where some feel best. Given that old definition of power: Power is the extent to which you can inconvenience others. ---- even this relatively benign intrusion into our lives can, in these protective times, force an uncharacteristic reaction from some thoughtful people. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Peace Date: 14 Mar 09 - 04:48 PM I was the guy who bitched about it initially. I do not object to helping my country by giving some info. I DO object strongly to being threatened by anyone, whether they work for government or not. Since the threat came before the smile, I told the worker to f/o, although maybe not in such polite terms. I recognize that the people doing the job are doing a job. That in itself is no excuse for a thread. "If you do NOT fill out this form you can go to jail for eons" or words to that effect. Sorry, but say hello, preface the jail remark with "I have been instructed to tell ALL people to whom I deliver this for that . . ." and life woulda been jus' ticketyboo. At that point I would have asked if it was a private cell and could I take my guitar, etc, we'd have had a laugh and things woulda been good. Guy in a bar came over to me and said, "You're in my chair." My answer got a bit snide. Had he said, "Excuse me buddy, but I was in that chair, etc" and I would have moved right away. All has to do with manners. Use bad manners on me and you can f/o. Period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Peace Date: 14 Mar 09 - 04:50 PM That said, I still refused to answer the religion question. Told the feds it was none of their business. Haven't heard back. I expect, however, I won't get the loooooooooog form this time around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Census Nazis From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Mar 09 - 09:29 PM As an investigator doing background checks, I worked almost exclusively without appointments. It was the only way to get the job done with any efficiency. Appointments were a drag, because many people took twenty minutes on the phone to arrange a five-minute interview - and multiple appointments would make me zig-zag across town all day and spend all my time driving. If the person was in a hurry, I could get my interview done in five minutes and get all the information that person had to give. If the person had more time, so did I (one of the advantages of not having appointments to keep). I usually made 8:30 PM my cutoff time for visiting homes, later in summer and earlier in winter. If going back meant a hundred-mile drive, I would sometimes push my cutoff time a little later. And yes, I did interviews at 2 AM, but never at residences - only to get people at work on the night shift. I would assume that the woman who contacted SINSULL at 9 PM and then at 11 PM, was an idiot. There's no way the Bureau of the Census would require that sort of thing - but it's possible the employee was behind on performance quotas and desperate to survive. -Joe- |
