BS: nuclear fusion

Subject: BS: nuclear fusion
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 08:58 AM

how safe is this form of Nuclear Power?

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:09 AM

Nuclear fusion has never been used on Earth for any purpose other than destruction because it can not, so far at least, be harnessed. However it is the furnace that fuels the Universe, so our very existance relies on it.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:17 AM

If and when (I prefer "when") they get it to work, it should be very safe, compared to fission. Fission uses a chain reaction in heavy elements. It happens all by itself. A fission reactor is essentially an atomic bomb that's been damped down so it goes off really slowly. If anything goes wrong with the damping, it goes off faster and you have Three Mile Island or Chernoble (sp?)

A fusion reactor involves squonching hydrogen atoms together so they make helium and give off extra energy. Stars do the squonching by sheer gravity, which is why stars are stars and planets aren't. Planets aren't massive enough to have enough gravity to start the fusion process.

In a man-made fusion plant, the squonching would be done by powerful electromagnets. If anything goes wrong, the hydrogen gets unsquonched and just goes out like a burnt-out light bulb.

That's how I understand it anyway. I'm not a nuclear physicist, but I read a lot of science fiction.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:27 AM

It could also take the dangerous wastes from fission and turn it into non-dangerous wastes while producing energy. (For instance, radioactive uranium eventually decays into lead -- this would hasten that process by "fusing" additional particles into the uranium or whatever base is used. See any good high school chemistry or physics textbook for a better and more complete explanation.)

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:51 AM

I was under the impression,that there was an experimental nuclear fusion.,somewhere in France ah here it is,
ast Updated: Tuesday, 28 June, 2005, 07:57 GMT 08:57 UK
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France gets nuclear fusion plant
Janez Potocnik, EU commissioner for science and research holds the agreement signed at Moscow's President Hotel on 28 June 2005
Commissioner Potocnik attended the meeting in Moscow
France will get to host the project to build a 10bn-euro (£6.6bn) nuclear fusion reactor, in the face of strong competition from Japan.

The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) will be the most expensive joint scientific project after the International Space Station.

The Iter programme was held up for over 18 months as parties tried to broker a deal between the two rivals.

Nuclear fusion taps energy from reactions like those that heat the Sun.

Nuclear fusion is seen as a cleaner approach to power production than nuclear fission and fossil fuels.

        
Rapid construction of Iter will be a major step in the development of fusion as a potential large-scale source of electricity that will not contribute to climate change
Prof Sir Chris Llewellyn Smith, UKAEA

Officials from a six-party consortium signed the deal in Moscow on Tuesday, for the reactor's location at the Cadarache site in southern France.

French President Jacques Chirac thanked member countries of the European Union, as well as Russia and China, who crucially lent their support to the French bid: "It is a big success for France, for Europe and for all the partners of Iter," he said in a statement.

The European Union, the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China are partners in the project.

Japan earlier withdrew its bid, after a deal was worked out for the "runner-up" to receive a generous concessions package.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 10:14 AM

Back in the mid-80s, a couple of scientists in Salt Lake claimed to have discovered "cold" fusion, but their experiment couldn't be replicated and the furor eventually died out. This possibility has apparently resurfaced and, if it proves accurate and practical, may eventually lead to a fusion reactor in every house. More here.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 01:29 PM

Pons and Fleishman, wasn't it? A flurry of great white hope. Very sad that it did not stick. A number of Japanese scientists have, in fact, replicated some of their results producing thermal anomalies and tritium traces suggesting fusion by (IIRC) exposing treated water to ultrasonic frequencies of some kind.


A

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 02:03 PM

ITER, an experimental reactor, if all goes well (continued funding, no engineering glitches, etc.), is scheduled for switch-on in 2018.

It's a wait and see.

A good article on fusion:
http://fire.pppl.gov/iter_us_sauthoff_eit_020605.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Mar 09 - 09:26 PM

In the meantime, there is the the big fusion reactor in the sky.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 07:41 AM

Fusion has been achieved in experimental reactors, but only briefly and the energy input was greater than the output.
To make the nuclei fuse,high pressure and or temperature is required.
The plasma has to be contained magnetically because no material is solid at the temperatures used.
It may never be possible to engineer a practical reactor (or carbon capture from a coal boiler?).

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 11:34 AM

There are always safety issues when that much energy is involved. If containment fails at the very least people down wind will end up breathing the building that housed the power plant. That can't be good.

The sun sends us enough energy for our needs once we figure out how to cheaply harness it and store it. That would be a lot easier than fusion power plants.

But I am a science fiction reader like Peter. I'd like to see fusion developed for use in space.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: folk1e
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 11:43 AM

The main problem they are facing (at the moment) is containment of the plasma. This is achieved by use of very large supercooled magnets which are also used to speed up the plasma round the reactor. Enclosing plasma under these circumstances has been described as "like holding spaghetti with elastic bands"

It is a long shot but the advantages of this are vast! Cheap and carbon free energy is definitely a goal worth trying for!

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 02:23 PM

The ITER fusion project is a joint research and development project, receiving support from the European Union (EURATOM), Japan, China, the United States and Korea.

On 18 March, ITER advertised for 74 new open positions.
ITER website- ITER

Click on their "Newsline" for current information.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 06:36 PM

Tritium ignited by powerful lasers within a magnetic containment "bottle". This is going on at Lawrence Livermore Labrotories in California. The electricity used is enormous and the magnetic field generated is milllions of time as powerful as Earth's natural magnetic field. It is, however, shielded and tightly focused. The tritium pellet is slightly larger than the head of a pin.

IF they can get this to work it will pay back the electricity thousands of times over in clean, non-polluting energy with helium and some hydrogen as a by-product.

Least-wise, that's how I remember it!

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 01:16 PM

Tritium is radioactive, half life of 12.3 years.
Enriched tritium is being produced at nuclear reactors in India; U. S. production is shut down until new reactors are built.

Tritium

Livermore experiments have released radioactive tritium to the atmosphere and contaminated groundwater, creating concern.
An article on the dangers from Tri-Valley CAREs"
http://www.trivalleycares.org/MaryliaTritiumLLNL06.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 05:04 PM

From today's "HSWire" (a compendium of homeland security stuff, which cover 'most everything):

Cold fusion is enjoying a rebirth

Published 30 March 2009

Researchers presented new evidence for the existence of this promising -- and controversial -- energy source' papers discussed last week at the national meeting of the American Chemical Society

At any good bookstore that has a large science selection, it is more likely than not that you will find many books in the physics section that have both "cold fusion" and "hoax" in their titles. It is time, perhaps, to give cold fusion another look, especially as researchers are reporting compelling new scientific evidence for the existence of low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR), the scientific name for cold fusion -- that holds the promise of a new source of energy. One group of scientists, for instance, describes what it terms the first clear visual evidence that LENR devices can produce neutrons, subatomic particles that scientists view as tell-tale signs that nuclear reactions are occurring.

Low-energy nuclear reactions could potentially provide twenty-first century society a limitless and environmentally clean energy source for generating electricity, researchers say. The report, which injects new life into this controversial field, was presented here today at the American Chemical Society's 237th national meeting held last week in Salt Lake City. It is but one of thirty papers on the topic that were presented during a four-day symposium called "New Energy Technology" which was held on 22-25 March, in conjunction with the 20th anniversary of the first description of cold fusion.

"Our finding is very significant," says study co-author and analytical chemist Pamela Mosier-Boss, Ph.D., of the U.S. Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR) in San Diego, California. "To our knowledge, this is the first scientific report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from an LENR device."

The first report on cold fusion, presented in 1989 by Martin Fleishmann and Stanley Pons, was a global scientific sensation. Fusion is the energy source of the sun and the stars. Scientists had been trying for years to tap that power on Earth to produce electricity from an abundant fuel called deuterium that can be extracted from seawater. Everyone thought that it would require a sophisticated new genre of nuclear reactors able to withstand temperatures of tens of millions of degrees Fahrenheit.

Pons and Fleishmann, however, claimed achieving nuclear fusion at comparatively "cold" room temperatures - in a simple tabletop laboratory device termed an electrolytic cell. Other scientists, however, could not reproduce their results, and the whole field of research declined. A determined group of scientists persisted, however, seeking solid evidence that nuclear reactions can occur at low temperatures. One of their problems involved extreme difficulty in using conventional electronic instruments to detect the small number of neutrons produced in the process, researchers say.

In the new study, Mosier-Boss and colleagues inserted an electrode composed of nickel or gold wire into a solution of palladium chloride mixed with deuterium or "heavy water" in a process called co-deposition. A single atom of deuterium contains one neutron and one proton in its nucleus.

Researchers passed electric current through the solution, causing a reaction within seconds. The scientists then used a special plastic, CR-39, to capture and track any high-energy particles that may have been emitted during reactions, including any neutrons emitted during the fusion of deuterium atoms.

At the end of the experiment, they examined the plastic with a microscope and discovered patterns of "triple tracks," tiny-clusters of three adjacent pits that appear to split apart from a single point. The researchers say that the track marks were made by subatomic particles released when neutrons smashed into the plastic. Importantly, Mosier-Boss and colleagues believe that the neutrons originated in nuclear reactions, perhaps from the combining or fusing deuterium nuclei. "People have always asked 'Where's the neutrons?'" Mosier-Boss says. "If you have fusion going on, then you have to have neutrons. We now have evidence that there are neutrons present in these LENR reactions."

They cited other evidence for nuclear reactions including X-rays, tritium (another form of hydrogen), and excess heat. Meanwhile, Mosier-Boss and colleagues are continuing to explore the phenomenon to get a better understanding of exactly how LENR works, which is key to being able to control it for practical purposes.

Mosier-Boss points out that the field currently gets very little funding and, despite its promise, researchers can't predict when, or if, LENR may emerge from the lab with practical applications. The U.S. Department of the Navy and JWK International Corporation in Annandale, Virginia, funded the study.

These presentations at the symposium caught our eye:

    * Steve Krivit, editor of New Energy Times and author of The Rebirth of Cold Fusion, offered an overview and update on LENR
    * Tadahiko Mizuno, Ph.D. of Hokkaido University in Japan and author of the book Nuclear Transmutation: The Reality of Cold Fusion, reported on the production of excess heat generation and gamma ray emissions from an unconventional LENR device that uses phenanthrene, a type of hydrocarbon, as a reactant.
    * Antonella De Ninno, Ph.D., a scientist with New Technologies Energy and Environment in Italy, described evidence supporting the existence of low energy nuclear reactions. She conducted lab experiments demonstrating the simultaneous production of both excess heat and helium gas, tell-tale evidence supporting the nuclear nature of LENR. She also showed that scientists can control the phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 10:57 PM

No need to use it. I have bene telling people for years what the answers to our power needs are.

1. A big ring around the world and big pylons with wheels on touching it so as the earth rotates the wheels generate power

2. Exercise bikes with dynamos wired up to the national grid and powered by convicts

3. Clockwork

And don't get me going on wind farms. We have enough natural wind - why do we need to grow it on farms? I know it is hard to believe but some people think I am mad...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 11:17 AM

It's easy to getheat out in space on space stations in orbit, because there's no atmosp[ere to dilute the power of the sun's rays. Forget all this fusion/fission/coal/biomass/windfarm stuff. Fill plenty of hot water bottles with cold water(or just get a pile of bricks ) and fly them to the Skylab space station. Put them on the sunny side till hot. Bring them back down. Simple. All the energy you want.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 02:50 PM

Imagine all the hot air going to waste in legislative chambers around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 05:46 PM

...and speaking of greenhouse gasses and energy. We need to grow more beans of every kind. Lot's of wind.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: GUEST,dh
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 05:55 PM

Lawrence Livermore is now certified to use their 192 laser fusion generator, supposedly for the ourpose of testing nuclear weapon components.

It is far superior to the little laser fuson lab back at University of Rochester 26 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 04:36 PM

I read science fiction too but I also took some physics classes:

Nuclear fission generates energy by creating interactions from splitting atomic nuclei mostly from enriched uranium. Nuclear reactors cannot become nuclear bombs. There are many designs for them, some designs such as Chernobyl's, should have been left on the drawing board. The French have well over half their electricity derived from the energy produced by fission reactors.

Nuclear fusion comes from the combining of hydrogen atoms into helium atoms. But, like striking a match takes the input of energy to kindle a great fire, getting the hydrogen atoms to 'bump uglies' takes overcoming the nuclear forces of their charge repulsion. This occurs in stars, nuclear tests and weapons, but otherwise is like herding cats and is what's being worked on in various laboratories. So far no one has achieved a controlled fusion reaction with a positive energy budget (Lots of matches burned, kindling charred).

Cold Fusion? Do not hold your breath. It is unproven and undocumented.

Subject: RE: BS: nuclear fusion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 04:51 AM

Cold fusion back in the news.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16820-neutron-tracks-revive-hopes-for-cold-fusion.html