Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: meself
Date: 29 May 09 - 11:02 AM

"I visited Canada a few years ago on a morris dancing tour and they were quite worried we would be putting Canadians out of work!"

So you're the guy who stole my gig! And here I'd gone out and bought bells and everything ...

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:51 AM

Some time ago we wanted to bring a band from Spain to perform dance music such as the dro and the lal. Immigration was worried that they, too, were going to put local musicians out of work. Fortunately their agent was able to deal with the problem.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:30 AM

You'd have thought if we were all 'subjects' of the same Queen some leeway could be made ...

I visited Canada a few years ago on a morris dancing tour and they were quite worried we would be putting Canadians out of work!

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: meself
Date: 29 May 09 - 10:03 AM

And what do the "states" have to do with it?

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to
From: GUEST,The lemonade lady
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:45 AM

So isn't it the same if we brits in to the states?

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:39 AM

Friends of mine who toured regularly in the US a few years ago said that their approach was to engage a good, well-reputed visa lawyer and pay them to get on with it. It wasn't cheap, but compared with the cost of losing paid-for flights and a month's work fees they considered it good insurance money well spent. It always worked, and a professional in the field is fully aware of latest bureaucracy changes, necessary timescales, and most importantly has a good trusted working relationship with the bureaucrats. Can't see any reason why this approach shouldn't work in the opposite direction. It's when people stick their heads in the sand, think they can cut corners, slip under the radar, it won't apply to them etc that things fall apart. None of which excuses ludicrous, offensive, inappropriate bureaucracy, regulations and attitudes on behalf of those who ought to be out catching real criminals to fulfil their quotas.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:24 AM

It's not the first time that this has happened, even before all the tightening of regulations, and artists who haven't got the requisite work permits have had real problems on arrival at this country. My other half has just come back from a month in California, and had to get all the paperwork spot on before she could go.

It's not really a question of whether the rules are excessive, stupid, bureaucratic, etc. (and I also happen to think they are). The onus is always on the artist(e) or their agency or manager - whoever - to work out the requirements before the journey is made, and make sure they're complied with. It's a huge shame that Allison Crowe was refused entry, but you can't buck the system just because you're a performer, and ignorance of the system is no excuse.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: meself
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:14 AM

Nice to see all the support for regulation, restriction, paperwork, bureaucracy, legality, and general fussiness. Keep up the good work, people - you're winning!

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: nickp
Date: 29 May 09 - 09:08 AM

Thanks for the links Howard. I guess I'd better get our current organisers to turn the organisation into a sponsor.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Morris-ey
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:52 AM

Anyone who wishes to enter a foreign country has to comply with that country's legal requirements and that means that they, or in this case their agents, research what that means.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:57 AM

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Britons beware - what few Civil Liberties which remain to us are under threat.

Still feel to vote BNP, or UKIP, anyone ?

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: meself
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:24 AM

From the linked article:

John Thurso, MP for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, told the NT this week: " ... The rule itself is an affront to the great British tradition of welcoming overseas artists and another example of this government's unyielding zeal for mindless regulation. Security is important, but throwing international performers into a lock-up and being rude to them should be no part of it."

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:02 AM

Seems fair enough.

We had a recent thread about another Canadian moaning about visa fees to the US....because they had waited too late and needed to expedite.

Publicity like this is a good reminder to get your affairs in order before internation travel.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Howard Jones
Date: 29 May 09 - 07:01 AM

I have no specialist knowledge but out of curiosity I googled and found these:

Working in the UK - creative and sporting workers

Sponsorship

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Ratdog
Date: 29 May 09 - 06:41 AM

Heya Betsy, you stated: "I met TWO Americans who were refused entry into Canada because of Drinking / Driving convictions."

Well, they weren't lying, Canada bars entry of anyone with a drinking and driving conviction, not just Americans but even to Canadians like my friend Jason, who moved here to the USA, got a DUI, now, even though his entire family still lives in Canada he's not allowed to enter, even to see them.

Talk about cold blooded, if Jason wasn't such a good friend of mine, and told me about it, it's likely I wouldn't have believed him.

On the other hand, I've traveled around and even worked in Canada, their laws involving alcohol consumption are more strict in general than those here in most of the USA, so it's not completely surprising.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: GUEST,Golightly
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:58 AM

There may have been recent changes to the certificates required, but musicians have always been treated with suspicion by immigration authorities.
Some years ago my partner was a professional musician who worked regularly in the US. Consequently, there were lots of American work permits in my partner's passport, so even if we visited America for personal, non-work reasons we were always questioned at length before being admitted into the US.

Canada in particular has always been stringent in its treatment of foreign musicians, so it's ironic that a Canadian musician fell foul of our regulations.

I think that countries assume that once you've worked there, your return visits are less likely to be purely personal.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Betsy
Date: 29 May 09 - 05:54 AM

The worlds going mad – thinking about the Canadian connection , I was travelling back from the Middle East yesterday and having to get a couple of different flights I met TWO Americans who were refused entry into Canada because of Drinking / Driving convictions.
I don't condone the D&D but they're hardly murders or gangsters – but it is enough to exclude them?
There seems to be lots of spare wood being let into Britain ,( and financially supported) so I send my apologies to Alison for what it's worth. There have been plenty of social models - which start by attacking art and culture - god forbid the British start these "tricks".

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: nickp
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:40 AM

Not sure about 'easily found' Howard. I've just gone round in cirlces for about 30 pages without finding what I needed to know. Perhaps you can help with a quick summary.

Assume (although it is true)... in the past I have been responsible for applying for work permits for American artists (musicians) to appear at a festival. Previously I have filled in a WP3 form with all the relevant details and sent it off with payment, receiving the permits (usually) very rapidly.

The only WP3 form I can now find relates to a few Eastern European contries so I guess it's been replaced.

Although I, personally, no longer do the permits, the organisation still gets US artists for the festival. Any helpful summary of the changes would be greatly appreciated.

Nick

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Howard Jones
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:01 AM

The information is easily found on the UK Border Agency website, although the system seems to assume a "creative worker" will be working for a single employer rather than doing a series of one-off gigs.

This situation was unfortunate for the musicians involved and their disappointed audiences, but it does look as if someone hasn't done their homework.

However, the allegations about the way they were treated while in detention are disturbing.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Rasener
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:47 AM

Just in case anybody gets concerned about the Tanglefoot tour, I can confirm that Tanglefoot have received their Certificates Of Sponsorship for their forthcoming tour.

Allison's agent (assuming she used an agent) should have known and dealt with it. That is the agents job, to be up on these rules and regulations.

However, I would like to thank Sheila for putting this thread up and making us aware of this issue.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: evansakes
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:43 AM

Is this "certificate of sponsorship" different to a 'work permit'?

If so, did these musicians have their work permits? Every tour has to have a 'sponsor' of some kind. Usually it's a booking agent who fulfills this role and they know how to process these things. There's no such thing as a private or social visit if remuneration is being made for musical performances.

I know of quite a few cases of musicians deported because they didn't have work permits. One renowned American singer-songwriter was caught out quite recently arriving for gigs without a permit.

When questioned if you're doing gigs it's best to admit it. Even customs officers have enough nous about them to go into another room, switch on a computer, google your name, find your website and know that your telling porkies.

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Kampervan
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:14 AM

Will nobody rid us of these turbulent lawmakers?

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 09 - 02:36 AM

She LOOKS like a terrorist; that's easy enough to see . . . .

Subject: RE: Canadian singer Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 09 - 02:34 AM

Beware of stupid people -- in groups.

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 May 09 - 12:21 AM

"She and fellow band members": Definitely not a personal visit.

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: michaelr
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:47 PM

..."all because she and fellow band members had failed to obtain a Certificate of Sponsorship from venues..."

Looks to me like someone didn't do their homework. We can all be dismayed, and with good reason, about post-9/11 Big Brother-style government requirements, but by now no one should be surprised by them.

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 May 09 - 10:19 PM

I spy a negligence claim against her legal advisers...

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: bald headed step child
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:07 PM

It is easy to wrest power from the people. Simply convince them of a common enemy, then convince them that you can protect them from this enemy.(Basic idea, not sure of the exact wording)--H. Goering

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:52 PM

The world's gone stark raving mad...

The lunatics are in charge once more..

Viva la Revolucion!

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: olddude
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:45 PM

Bald headed step child has it right
I have that quote from Franklin about my desk at my office

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: bald headed step child
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:11 PM

"Any man who would give up liberty for the sake of security, deserves neither"---Ben Frankiln

Subject: RE: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 28 May 09 - 06:04 PM

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that ths climate of fear nonsense that surrounds our every move doesn't actually appear to be stopping many real terrorists?

Subject: Allison Crowe refused entry to UK
From: sheila
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:34 PM

from an article in today's 'Northern Times', a newspaper for the north of Scotland -

"INTERNATIONALLY renowned Canadian singer Allison Crowe, on her way to stay with friends in North-West Sutherland last week, was held for 11 hours at Gatwick Airport in London by immigration officials – and then deported back home.

And all because she and fellow band members had failed to obtain a Certificate of Sponsorship from venues they were due to play at, a little-known visa requirement following legislation brought in last November to combat illegal immigration and terrorism."

full story at http://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/6098/North-bound_visitor__treated_like_a_terrorist_.html