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English Folk - Peasants to Professors
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:41 AM "When are the moderators going to censure this vile witch hunt, or have they too joined the baying mob, mindless with blood-lust? Shame on the bloody lot of you." Thank you for your kind support, SP, but I'm pleased the mods let these posts stand, and that they give me the freedom of speech to respond to them. Mudcat is the ONLY place that allows that to happen and I have a lot of respect for them for doing that. If you read the fRoots board, it drives the Moaning Minnies half mad with fury that freedom of speech is permitted over here, because it stops them from being able to show only one side. Ruth, you weren't even on the BBC board when I first posted, so with due respect, you have no idea what happened. There was no adulation involved, never has been, just a strong desire to right a wrong. That wrong HAS now been righted, by Phil himself, because you've all taken Show of Hands to your hearts...and that's so warming to see. Ahhh...'Mary' :0) OK, coach to catch!
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,Mary Brennan Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:33 AM What RA said! Lizzie wasn't banned because she likes Show of Hands. Even Phil Beer has said that he doesn't know her and would like her to stop writing about them in the way that she does. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:31 AM Why get out there and see what you could actually be doing that's positive and constructive for your community, or for the music you purport to love so much? And some time ago you suggested doing a radio show. Perfect for what Joanie says. Why not approach your nearest community radio station? See if you can offer them a folk programme. Phonic Radio here doesn't seem to have a specialist folk show. Or perhaps you could have an input into their roots and shoots show. Lots of people could then help you taking this music out to the community. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Jack Blandiver Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:30 AM When are the moderators going to censure this vile witch hunt, or have they too joined the baying mob, mindless with blood-lust? Shame on the bloody lot of you. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:27 AM "I'd posted about a band 'they' loathed, and from that moment on, things were never quite the same." Can we abolish this fiction once and for all? It was NEVER abvout the bands you chose to write about, it was in the incessant, over-the-top way you wrote about them and insisted on shoving your personal tastes down other people's throats. It was not a response to the music as such; it was a response to your fawning adulation which, as many people have said, often served only to polarise people's opinions, as they got heartily sick of having the same few names shoved incessantly down their throats. Of course, to acknowledge this you would also have to acknowledge that, actually, the problem might lie with you. I won't hold my breath. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:25 AM Gawd, folkiedave...are you related to 'folkygrim' on the BBC? You know, that guy who used to turn up and rant at me about the most purile things..over and over and over...Hardly ever showed up on there unless I was there..You write in such a similar way...IMO, of course. :0) Humble? Why do you have to apologise for having an opinion? LOVE your opinions, even if others don't. They're what makes you, you. And now, I gotta go out for the day, so I'll leave you all to rant and rage. I'm off on a Peasant's Charabang Day Out to Torquay. (No Professors Allowed!) :0) Didn't we 'ave a luvverly day...... ;0) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:18 AM "There is no rhyme or reason to what happened in that thread." Oh, I think there is. Eliza had made her feelings about your recent behaviour very clear after your repeated and wholesale attacks on EFDSS and your completely misguided disparaging of Walter Pardon. As had Phil Beer, of course, and Steve Knightley, though less directly than the others. Eliza has made it clear that she does not desire your "support", and she certainly doesn't need it; people who like and respect her work were, I think, simply trying to divert you. Why? Because when you zone in and fixate on an artist, the nature and result of your attention can be both scary and ultimately damaging. Simples. David eG makes some very salient points: he's clearly one of the good guys on every level, getting out there and giving his time to make a difference, both to society and to the music. But I guess you'll now take one flippant off-the-cuff remark and use it to browbeat and undermine him with whenever you get the opportunity - it's ever so predictable. Tellya what. How bout, instead of writing screechy reams of hysteria at and about him from now on, you take a leaf out of his book? Why get out there and see what you could actually be doing that's positive and constructive for your community, or for the music you purport to love so much? Or why not learn an instrument? I'm off to my melodeon lesson now, as it happens. It's a good way to engage with the music. Go to sessions. Learn some songs. Be a part of the music, not just a passive consumer. Because then you might begin to understand what it's really about - and that's NOT squeeing like a deranged teenager over "celebrities". |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:13 AM It wasn't me who brought in the scenario that Dave (el gnomo) did, and if he's not squirming, he should be, believe me....because there is a line you don't cross...he crossed it as far as I'm concerned. The excellent news this morning is that he'll be able to keep his eliza cds now...which will cheer him up no end. Yup, it seems that I do get some people's backs up. I did from the very first message I ever posted on the BBC. And it stunned me, because there was nothing in it that should have made folks feel that way. I was simply a new poster, first time ever writing anything on the computer, but, without me realising it, I'd posted about a band 'they' loathed, and from that moment on, things were never quite the same. Five years down the line, those who once shouted out so angrily against Show of Hands have finally accepted them, said openly how much they've gone up in their estimation. Of course, I realise that 'intelligent' folks such as these would only say that about Show of Hands music, and would not have the hypocrisy in their souls to merely now support them purely because Phil asked me to stop talking about the band in 'adulatory' terms, for that would be to make out that the Moaning Minnies were even bigger hypocrites than I had thought them to be.... Whoa! Far be it from me to suggest that one! I think it's wonderful that they now love the same music I love...and I look forward to reading their words about some Show of Hands songs in the near future. Who'd a thought it, huh? Everything turns out sunny in the end. :0) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: tijuanatime Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:13 AM >>But it doesn't excuse you from making statements that have no evidence behind them<< "As I(without corroboration) roved out one bright(imho) May(although I can't prove it) morning(I wasn't wearing a watch)" |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Barry Finn Date: 04 Jun 09 - 04:12 AM "Hey, we don't have a 'disorder' though. We're just us. :0) And as can be seen from some of the lyrics of your songs which you've posted from time to time, pretty darn creative too." Thanks Lizzie, hopefully this summer you'll be able to hear them in person Barry |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:59 AM Again, imo, the English folk world has a great deal to learn from the US, and others. And that Lizzie is an opinion you are perfectly entitled to. It is when you miss those three little letters out you get into trouble.Try putting it in more often - indeed try IMHO (in my humble opinion). But it doesn't excuse you from making statements that have no evidence behind them. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Phil Edwards Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:52 AM in this campaign to silence me, to make ALL artists terrified of me, and to humiliate me on every board I ever visit. Someone who gets the same negative reactions in a lot of different places may be the victim of a conspiracy against them personally. Or they may just act in a way that consistently gets people's backs up. "I'll leave that with you." ((c) Nick Hewer) well, you've tried to squirm you way out of a difficult situation I don't think Dave is the one who's squirming. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:51 AM Hey, Dave (folkiedave that is, please see my post above this... Why *is* the English folk world so serious and so darn humourless? It's always puzzled me...You can see it back on Folk Britannia, it's been there for decades..A great shame...it could be so very different... Hey ho.. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:47 AM Thanks, Barry. Hey, we don't have a 'disorder' though. We're just us. :0) And as can be seen from some of the lyrics of your songs which you've posted from time to time, pretty darn creative too. Yes, Americans (Canadians and Australians too) *have* been brought up a few times in this thread, for being, in my opinion, far more accepting, far more laid back, far more welcoming. Again, imo, the English folk world has a great deal to learn from the US, and others.. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:39 AM Lizzie, there aren't any "Professors". It is a term you made up. Can you not realise that when you make things up it means you have made things up? Don't start dealing with these words as if other people use them and mean them in the same way as you do - which is anyway you choose. However Eliza, bless her heart - for she must be a very busy woman - has joined on the debate. From Lizzie - "Oh poo...Eliza luvs me really". Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy - 'My Music' From: GUEST,eliza c - PM Date: 03 Jun 09 - 10:05 PM no i don't. sorry. i think, after years of observation, that you're a moron. e |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Barry Finn Date: 04 Jun 09 - 03:36 AM As an American (we've been brought up now a number of times in this thread) Lizzie, I encourage you to check out these threads; ADHD/ADD and http://www.healthyplace.com/adhd/parent-advocate/dyslexia-what-is-it/menu-id-916/ I not trying to insult you by posting these. My brother is dyslexic & I myself am ADHD along with my older brother, my nephew, my mother & my son. These disorders are also often known to be umbrellas that other disorders seek shelter under & sometimes seldom are ever realized. We are also sometimes known to be very "superfocused" when otherwised scattered. Good luck Barry |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 04 Jun 09 - 02:47 AM Nope....I didn't *write* about Eliza, merely pointed people to the documentary about her music and introduced a few videos of hers. Please read the thread. If you can find vast amounts I've written about Eliza elsewhere, or Bellowhead, please feel free to post them here. And if those few words have allegedly put you off Eliza's music, well, she's far better off without you, isn't she, rather than having someone so vacuous appreciating her music. Yeesh! And by the way, if you want to know *why* I don't write volumes about them, it's because they are within the 'inner circle' of the Professors, and...as you'll see from Eliza's thread, if anyone the Professors deem unfit and unworthy of talking about them, DARES to do just that, even in the most minor of ways, all hell breaks loose, and they do all they can to drive folks away. There is no rhyme or reason to what happened in that thread. A total outpouring of nastiness over what????? Why??? You tell me, Dave. You explain to me what happened in that thread, because I've not a clue. As to your other comments, please don't twist what I said. YOU were the one who said that my words about those artists had put you off them, which is the biggest load of whatsit I ever did hear, particularly as 2 out of the 3 you mentioned I do NOT even write about. What is shows, is that you are happy to bring any artists into this battle to get at me. How it works is that you make any artist feel that if I dare to write about them, dare to love their music, then their career is virtually over, because people like you will go out of your way to ensure that they are laughed at on boards like these. It's clever. It's been going on for years...and I know it works, because some artists have brought their music to me, wanting me to write about it, whilst being shite scared that they'll also be the next on the list of musical victims to be made fun of, in this campaign to silence me, to make ALL artists terrified of me, and to humiliate me on every board I ever visit. Sadly, this time, it backfired badly against you, and it's plain for all to see how this 'system' is meant to work....but doesn't. There ARE artists who've been given such a hard time by The Professors, that they DO run scared. I have no respect for folks like that. If jumping into bed with the traddies means more than the believing in the absolute beauty of their music, well, that to me, shows just how deeply controlling the English Folk World has become, has ALWAYS been, ruled over by a small group of humourless, dictactorial people, who seek nothing more than to control ALL artists within 'their' world...and they will stop at NOTHING to ensure that control remains as deep as possible. As to your comments above on those less fortunate than ourselves...well, you've tried to squirm you way out of a difficult situation. To be honest, reading what you've just said above makes it even harder for me to comprehend the viciousness of your original words, because *anyone* who would ever dare to use such a comparison, is, in my book, beyond belief. But to use such a comparison, to score a cheap and dirty point, when you apparently work alongside those very souls who struggle so hard in a world that doesn't care...well...????????? And on that note, I'll leave you to your words. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jun 09 - 09:22 PM I am actualy quite involved with the 'shambling, smelly' ones, Lizzie - In a volunteer day centre in Salford. What do you do? Laugh with them? Feed them? Talk to them like real people? Or is it beyond your dyslexic reasoning to actualy do something worthwhile? They need your pity like they need a hole in the head. Also, you have no idea in any way shape or form what my music collection comprises of, yet you have the audacity to hint that I have limited my collection in some way. I think you may be very surprised to find offerings from some of the artists you wax lyrical over alongside Martin Carthy, New Model Army, The Cure and Franz Ferdinand. I don't just listen though. Like with the disadvantaged, I actualy do something. I have run a sucessful club and festival for 25 years. I sing, play multiple instruments, work full time (on shifts which is why I am still here at 2:15am!), have 5 kids, 4 of which have honours degrees and all of whom have survived the educational system and still find time to know the difference between enthusiasm and complete twaddle! I suppose though that someone who starts the thread Eliza Carthy - 'My Music' only 4 or so days ago and then follows up with the comment And as for Bellowhead and Eliza, I never write about them, so you must have read the words of someone else cannot be expected to understand any of that... Now please go away and tilt at windmills elsewhere. Thank you. DeG |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,Richd Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:21 PM ahhh..Doris. Now there's a name. A happy medium. All this is a lot easier if you think of it as a cosmic sort of thing. Communications from another world. A diversion. An entertainment to bring pleasure. A rest from the cares of the day. An exchange of pleasantries between people who may or may not exist in the identities they claim on line. We love the messages from the long dead, and shout at each other while the songs whisper in the dark. We all love the songs. Who cares about the singers? The songs abide. A happy medium. Yib Yib. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jun 09 - 08:17 PM "I used to think that Lizzie was mostly harmless. You know, like one of them shambling, smelly people that wander through the streets of any metropolis and occasionaly shout nonsense that makes people laugh with a vague feeling of discomfort." That has to be one of the sickest comments I've ever seen. Not about me, but about people who are utterly alone, so often desperate, and time and again ignored by people who should be offering them help. And you think they're just a joke? You think they're there for you to make fun of???????????????? And as for Bellowhead and Eliza, I never write about them, so you must have read the words of someone else, and thus, thrown your CDs away for no reason...and yeah right, like you soooo had them in the first place. Yeesh! AND...you're way too late about 'she damages artists' etc..because Diane's been doing that show for the last 5 years....so please, keep up and find your own set of insults to throw! By the way, please don't worry about Show of Hands...they don't need your support, or mine... Now I'll leave you to get back to your book of 'The Loving, Tolerant World of English Folk Music' |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:49 PM Oh, and in case the dyslexia cuts in and anyone thinks that I was just writing beutiful smells or whatever it is. I, like a few others I know, used to quite like Show of Hands, Bellowhead, Eliza Carthy and a plethora of others. Now we have to carry their CDs out of the shop in plain brown wrappers and will not be seen within a mile of their concerts for fear of guilt by association! |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:43 PM I used to think that Lizzie was mostly harmless. You know, like one of them shambling, smelly people that wander through the streets of any metropolis and occasionaly shout nonsense that makes people laugh with a vague feeling of discomfort. Just to show I am not set in my ways or too old to learn I am quite happy announce that I have changed have changed my mind. Just like a more infamous Lizzie, I don't think anything will ever be proven but the hatchet jobs she has done on the careers of those she purports to love makes me wonder what they have done to deserve such terrible retribution... :D (eG) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: glueman Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:14 PM Wasn't that Doris Stokes richd? Actually the post modernist thing might have legs - Folk means Foucault: shanty town and the fin de siecle or perhaps Folk, beyond the irony curtain by J. Derrida or even Folkie's Pendulum, and the death of the modern by Almost Everyone. "I think Gg has shot himself in the foot in the depth of his pretension." Don't worry Pugwash, I know the whiff of horseshit and tuppence coloured gurus when when I smell them. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,richd Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:49 PM That's the happy medium comrade! |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Jack Blandiver Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:40 PM professor or peasant., rather than to be able to both at different times. Of course the trick is to be both at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,richd Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:21 PM It's interesting that several of the discussions going on here are about authenticity and authorship- both of great concern to post-modern theory. Also interesting that this discussion is put in terms that imply that people have to choose one or the other- professor or peasant., rather than to be able to both at different times. Myself, I'm a professor in the day and a peasant in the evening. Other people I know prefer it the other way round. At the moment I'm Kinda slipping towards the happy medium. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:32 PM And she can type lying down. That confirms it really I suppose! |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:30 PM in a way that is often indistinguishable from a parody of itself. You know Richard you might have something there. Do you think it could apply to Lizzie as well? I have often thought of her as post-modern and that seems to confirm it!! |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Banjiman Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:30 PM Is he the only one? LoL |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:26 PM In the light of Gg's apparent wish to construct a postmodernist critique of folk song, I think I should direct readers to the basic wikipedia article on it: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism I am most taken by two quotes: - first "of, relating to, or being any of various movements in reaction to modernism that are typically characterized by a return to traditional materials and forms" but second "postmodernism refers to a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, interconnectedness or interreferentiality,[4] in a way that is often indistinguishable from a parody of itself. It has given rise to charges of fraudulence" I think Gg has shot himself in the foot in the depth of his pretension. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:10 PM Oh, is that what "postmodernist" means? |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:10 PM Lizzie, you do really know how to make them dance... |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 05:02 PM See - I do my best to help people and it is thrown back in my face. Hurumph........ |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:53 PM "Contact me and I will give you a list of my charges" Good job I didn't say that..else you'd have called me a Trollop. Oh, I can type lying down, no worries. :0) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:46 PM If your head is aching it might be best if you go and lie down. And whatever you do - don't do typing. It will only make it worse. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM Is this the folkiedave theory of critical validation based on how much you can flog a book for? Ungrateful wretch. I offer you a heavy book for half the price it is available elsewhere post free and you whinge. Last time. I am fussy about the people I sell books to. I have a first edition of A Shropshire Lad. Is it folk? Is it feck BTW Well spotted - it is in fact poetry. But it is about Joy and Beauty and Love and Simplicity. Try interesting Lizzie, she is into that sort of thing. Of course all that stuff is really symnbolic and allegorical you know. And the significance of the number 63? I'll let you decide on that one...... what's it worth? You want me to value it for you? I can do this - but I have to warn you it is a skilled job and I do charge. Contact me and I will give you a list of my charges. Alternatively you could see how much people are charging via ABE. That comes a lot cheaper. And does it make Housman a good poet? Does the book make Housman a good poet? Well a lot of people seem to think so. After all it has been in print continuously since 1896. But if you aren't sure why did you buy the book? Because it was a first edition and cost £0.20p? I'll buy it off you for that price. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:24 PM I'd be extremely interested in a post modern theory of folk music if there's one available. There are a number available but as you aren't a post-mdernist I can't sell them to you. Damn they were really inexpensive too. No market you see. the role of the songwriter in folk. Could have done you a couple of those as well, but anthropological and about attribution. Sorry you didn't want stuff like that earlier. re-appraising the craft of Bert Lloyd There was a short radio piece by Martin Carthy for Bert's Centenary. I might be able to help you there. Likely to be expensive because of copywrite issues. But ask. I might be able to fix up a transcript. if you have a psychoanalytic reading the folk revivalist I'm all ears. Remarkably I know someone who is doing just such a book - AND is looking for a likely subject. But she is looking for someone who has a brain as well - sorry - but being all ears you don't qualify. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:18 PM Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....I is soooooooo confoooosed! My head is aching! Songs. Beauty. Joy. Simplicity. Thank Lordy I is a peasant.... ;0) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,Goose Gander Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:12 PM "I'd be extremely interested in a post modern theory of folk music if there's one available" - Do you really want the postmodernists to do to folk/traditional music what they did to literature? For gender, see the Dugaw book. "psychoanalytic reading the folk revival"? - If this exists, I'll read it for a laugh. After all, sometimes a banjar is just a banjo. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,Goose Gander Date: 03 Jun 09 - 04:00 PM "I'm not a post modernist but it sounds like a cat among stool pigeons." If you could translate this statement, I'd be willing to attempt a response. But if you mean you're more interested in (for example) the "social construction of 'irish-ness' among Irish-American professionals in the midwest" rather than (for example) Irish-American fiddle music in the midwest than I'm afraid we're not going to see eye to eye on much of anything. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: glueman Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:46 PM I'd be extremely interested in a post modern theory of folk music if there's one available. I'm not a post modernist but it sounds like a cat among stool pigeons. Or the role of the songwriter in folk, re-appraising the craft of Bert Lloyd, something on gender and if you have a psychoanalytic reading the folk revivalist I'm all ears. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: GUEST,Goose Gander Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:46 PM Here's a few more: Cohen, Norm / Long Steel Rail Dugaw, Diane / Warrior Women and Popular Balladry, 1650-1850 Gammon, Vic / Desire, Drink, and Death in English Folk and Vernacular Song, 1600-1900 Green, Archie / Only A Miner; plus other books on folk arts, labor culture, etc. and dozens of essays published throughout his career. Van Der Merwe / Origins of the Popular Style Whisnant, David / All That Is Native and Fine: The Politics of Culture in an American Region |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:45 PM a friend of mine picked up a used copy of the Penguin Book of Folk Songs (one of the compilers is, of course, A.L.Lloyd)Is it folk....? |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: glueman Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM Is this the folkiedave theory of critical validation based on how much you can flog a book for? I have a first edition of A Shropshire Lad. Is it folk? Is it feck BTW I paid 20p for it at a jumble sale in v.good nick, what's it worth? And does it make Housman a good poet? |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:35 PM I haven't looked at Rod's site for ages - pressure of time really. I know Mike's work on the Revival appeared there - not sure which came first. I also seem to remember that Alistair Banfield (real expert on folk song records), had a lot to do with the Topic Discography and that was acknowledged on the site - but I am doing that from memory. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 03 Jun 09 - 03:20 PM "Mike Brocken - "The English Folk Revival" I believe I'm right in saying the Mike Brocken's book originally appeared as a series of articles on Rod Stradling's Musical Traditions website. Mike Brocken is also the author of the complete Topic Records Discography, also to be found on the Musical Traditions website |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 02:56 PM what other serious analysis of folk music has taken place that isn't anthropology or taxonomy/collection? Something in other words that hasn't emerged from those with a vested interest? Well under "A" there is David Atkinson's book "The English Traditional Ballad". Under "B" Mike Brocken - "The English Folk Revival" Under "C" there is Robert Cantwell's book "When We were Good- The Folk Revival". Under "D" the well-known Ginette Dunn "Fellowship of Song" Under "E" Roger Elbourne's book about "Lancashire Music and Tradition in Early Industrial Lancashire". Do I really have to go through the rest of the alphabet? I suppose publishing a book could be a vested interest. So what your question says is "What books have been produced about folk song that have been produced by people who haven't written any books? An interesting contribution to the debate. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 03 Jun 09 - 02:53 PM I'm sure you meant to say Do you mean the 'vested interest' of somebody who desperately wants there to be a definition of 'folk'(whatever that means) |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Folkiedave Date: 03 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM Wilgus did some interesting work Folkiedave, especially in categorising texts according to narrative, Never mind it must be a different Wilgus you are looking at. I'm looking at the one that devotes half of its content to "the controversy over the communal nature of the ballad". Little to do with taxonomy and even less to do with collection. However if it doesn't float your boat - no problem - it's since been sold. one is that people really don't give a shit about it, two you won't get a debate worth a damn that doesn't come back to collection and attribution and three, there are few neutral and intelligent voices - each has some professional or quasi-professional axe to grind. Got a nice one for you. "Folk Song: Tradition, Revival and Re-Creation" the book that came from the 1998 Conference in Sheffield. "A fascinating and timely collection of new insights in the field of folk song, representing the exciting diversity of current research and deserves to be read by scholars and folk revival participants alike". Or to put it another way - 36 people who do give a shit. Some were professionals in the field of folk music or folklore or even folklife, and some were not. Incidentally what does "quasi-professional axe to grind" mean in this context? Give us an example of someone? No? I thought not. Evidence means little to you of course. Now this book is exactly what you are looking for and there is only one listed on ABE books and that costs - believe it or not - £210.00. Since you are have an interest in this sort of thing I can do it for exactly 50% of that price - £105.00. What an offer!! And of course I include postage. Quick - before that one is sold too. |
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Subject: RE: English Folk - Peasants to Professors From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Jun 09 - 01:44 PM |
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