WHITBY Folk Week - the small print

Subject: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM

I was asked in the Station at Whitby, "Did you get to Martyn Wyndham Read's concert Of Graeme Miles songs?"   
Sadly I hadn't, I would love to have done but I didn't know about it.
Why Not?
Because I guess it was hidden away in the small print of the Whitby Programme.
After all the superb work they put into laying it on, Whitby Folk Week organisers hide away in the small print not the Terms and Conditions, but the Programme of events we've come to see!
In 2008 I downloaded the programme and printed the bits I needed in readable type, ideal, but I couldn't find that for 2009, just a page saying 'buy a programme, four quid.' Yes we may be tight on the folk scene but it grieves me paying four quid for something I can't read.
Ageism is illegal now! Lots of Festivals have Young Persons programmes so why not something for the Over Fifties? Why can't we have Large Print events for those who don't have microfiche readers for eyes?
If you couldn't read your Whitby Programme please post 'Me too!'

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:02 AM

Why can't they simply put the whole programme on the web in advance?

Festivals with fewer resources, like Linlithgow, manage it.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Andy Seagroatt
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:26 AM

Also, under each biog, why not put the event numbers they are appearing at, saves a lot of searching. And while they are about it why not put a biog in for all performers!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: LesB
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:38 AM

It was no more difficult to find than any other event, only difficult to get into. We arrived 15mins early only to be turned away (house full), and we had season tickets.
Cheers
There were so many changes to the program this year, a lot of it was irrelavant. It also caused a 'squirm moment' for us, because The Wright Family didn't have a profile, I hadn't a clue what to expect. So we went to a double header with them and Grace Notes. After the sublime Grace Notes The Wright Family turned out to be a 5 piece Jews Harp band. I gave it 5 mins then had to try & make an unobtrusive exit.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:06 AM

Jack Campin - I agree entirely "put the whole programme on the web in advance" because as well as being convenient it is good advertising. Long since that I organised little 'festivals' but my plot was to put out full info to get people there. But as LesB found House Full perhaps Whitby would dismiss any need to advertise.
Sorry Les to note that several Wrights can make a Wrong!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:52 AM

Before complaining , perhaps you should consider the work already done by the NEW committee, many of whom are still finding their feet.

By all means make suggestions - I'm sure they would be taken on board, Or even offer your time and support - I'm sure that would be appreciated.

But most of all say thank you to all that was positive about the festival, that these volunteers spent all year working to provide.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:54 AM

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:56 AM

OOPs

Turning up on time for an event which was brought forward by an hour because of a bouble booking at the venue did not go down too well either. On the other hand perhaps John should invest in a pair of specs. All in all I enjoyed myself and it is not easy organising an event of that magnitude well done

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:39 AM

By all means make suggestions - I'm sure they would be taken on board,

If you can't put the programme up, could you at least put the start and finish dates on the festival website? (They still weren't there a week before it started).

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 01:50 PM

Thanks for the notes. I'm pretty much in agreement with many of you BUT… as the guy who does the design for the programme etc. I think it might be useful to share the following.
Firstly there is a question of cost… don't think we haven't had other ideas, personally would have loved to use the format used by the Australian National Folk Festival. Liz offered to do the numbers of events next to the artists. We agree with many of your comments BUT…(yes, that's two upper case 'buts', there is a question of cost, fine if you want to pay big bucks for your programme, there is also the question of scale – Linlithgow might be a great festival but does it last for a week? Does it have the biggest workshop series of any UK folk festival?
As for programme changes, they're inevivable and we really did do our best. We (the staff) might have lost some sleep trying to solve problems but people still came up to me and the other members of staff, as well as the directors and told us they were having a great time. e have a lot to learn, a long way to go BUT…(yes I know) the Whitby Folk Week was enjoyed by loads of people and those whose week was totally and irrevocably destroyed by a clash of programming really shouldn't go to folk festivals.
By the way, please make suggestions, if cost and helpers permit we're only to happy to try to accomodate them. Just don't expect miracles we're only human.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM

Linlithgow might be a great festival but does it last for a week? Does it have the biggest workshop series of any UK folk festival?

Doesn't matter - I can find what they've got on in advance, so I've been sometimes. As long as I can't find out what you're going to have on offer, long enough in advance to book holidays and accommodation, I'm never going to yours.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:04 PM

Hi Jack,
my point is that its very much more difficult to do what you're asking - this is a matter of scale really. Shame that such a little thing should prevent your going to one of the best folk festivals in the UK.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM

Was the programme not on the web last year?
Did I dream it? (Possible at my age)

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:52 PM

John - the solution was to spend your £4 (like the rest of us had to) and buy an advanced copy of the programme - I got mine at Saltburn FF, you could have sent for one by post.
Then you could have studied it at your leisure.

Yes, changes did happen but they were published daily in the "Whitby Wailer" available from festival office.

If the Whitby Festival committee attempted to cater for the individual needs of all it's punters, the task would be impossible.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:18 PM

Is the problem of scale so great that you can't even put the festival dates on the website?

I knew it was sometime in August but couldn't find out any more. Since I could find out the dates and the programme for a week-long folk camp in Transylvania, that's where I went instead. (It might have been the Nuits de Nacre festival in Tulle, they have details up in advance too - as far I'm concerned, you're competing with every late summer festival in Europe whose website has a schedule in a language I've got a dictionary for).

I've never seen a programme. It's not too hard to get to, I know Dick and Susan like it, I imagine you have spots for local-ish performers like Jim Eldon and Alistair Anderson who I'd want to hear, but that's not quite enough for me to commit a whole week, and I couldn't arrange to go part of the week without an advance schedule.

There are lots of ways to put programme info on the web as soon as you have it - a permathread here, a Twitter page, a blog, a public iCal calendar, an RSS feed, whatever suits. It doesn't need to take any longer than finding a post-it note to add it to your office planner.

Maybe you just don't want to attract anyone who hasn't been before. Your choice, I won't argue if that's what you want.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:42 PM

Festival dates - now that is a fair point. Put simply the website will be completely updated. Watch that space.
'Maybe you just don't want to attract anyone who hasn't been before. Your choice, I won't argue if that's what you want.'
…and obviously that's not what we want, why would you even suggest it?
Like I said, we are trying to get it right, we're not experts but we do care about this festival. You may not be aware of it but this is a massive project, it doesn't have grant aid thus is self-funded and, contrary to popular belief it is run by a devoted but shrinking number of volunteers.
I'll also repeat that the punters had a great time once again!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:43 PM

I can only presume that you are not familiar with Google. A simple request for info on WHITBY FOLK FESTIVAL brings you to this page.

Whitby Folk Week which provides you with dates and other necessary info.

I can't think you would need more than this.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:58 PM

I can't think you would need more than this.

You had to send off 4 quid and an SAE for a paper copy of the programme - none of the information is on the site. And the programme was presumably printed from a PDF file that could have been uploaded to the web in seconds. I'd buy the paper programme if I was there, but that doesn't make sense as a way of doing advance publicity.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Cats
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:19 PM

I appreciate all the hard work that goes into planning and producing a programme for a festial as big as Whitby and you are never going to please everyone. However, if you have sight problems you have the right to ask for the programme to be available in an alternative format [comes under disability discrimination act] so perhaps next year you could ask for one of those. You might have to ask for it early so it can be printed off for you but if you can't see it, it's worth planning ahead. A note for the organisers, if anyone does ask for it in a different format all you have to do is have a copy on the computer and enlarge the print to whatever size and font they ask for and print it off as a one off. That way you comply with the law and don't have to go to the expense of printing different format and can change the font and the size to suit the individual.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Barry from wife compute at work
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM

I biggest gripe for my trying to figure out which of the few festivals I can afford to make in a season is finding out about whose performing & if I'm not familiar with them a link to they're site or a good discription of them & what they do. If I can't find out whose performing & what they're about, I'll go to a festival where I can find the info, full & in advance. No excuse for not getting up the performers up in advance.

Barry

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,padgett on lap top
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 06:25 PM

I have the greatest regard for Whitby ff organisers, for potential audience and for the performers

I passed comment that now this 2009 festival is over they could start on 2010 ~ was told started in May 2009 for 2010!!

The programme was BIG and caters largely for traditional devotees and they were there in abundance including a number of Scottish based performers and one or two Irish and Welsh (well Michael O'Leary Johns!)

The Irish singer Tom? I had seen and heard at Bradfield trad festival earlier is a very stylistic singer (not billed)

Juggling venues, artists, mc's, stewards non arrivals must be a nightmare and organisers need iron constitution

Ideas and feedback are vital and I heard or some cock ups and filled in feedback forms ~ certainly about conflicts with the regatta

The regatta depends on tides, but Wff needs certainty of dates from year to year

Accommodation is at a premium and to have the same week for both is ridiculus!

Folk week relies heavily on committed volunteers and regard for folk music

In any organisation of this type the work, falls on few and dedicated shoulders

Good work for 2009, well done to all and lets hope they can iron out one or two problems

Some new names this year like Hissyfit in more contemporary vein sat well along side
Dave and Julie Evardson and John Conolly

Bryony Griffith and Will Hampson, Matt Quinn, Sam Lee and Sam Pirt from the younger end too of music and and song

Contact names for roles such as artists, stewards, sponsorship and adverts needed here too (yes they were in the programme) and the website should remain active for 2010 ~ perhaps!!)with this information

Just some thoughts

Ray Padgett

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tootler
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:11 PM

Having the programme on the website would be very useful. Although I live fairly locally, I can't afford to spend the whole week at Whitby (for family reasons as well as financial ones), so having the programme available on the Website would help me in choosing when to go.

One vital piece of information missing from the website was the location of the festival office. At least I couldn't find it and I think I scoured it pretty thoroughly. It needs to be fairly prominent say on the contacts page and the programme page.

Advice and info on parking would also be useful. Parking in Whitby is bad enough in normal times and is a real problem when there is any special event on, so pointing people to where they might stand some chance of finding parking would be very useful.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tyke
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:14 PM

I could tell you where the Parking is in Whitby however some would have to tell me how to do the HMTL to change to small print the details of said parking. Because if I told you then and told everyone else at the same time then the Car Park would be FULL!

Im afraid it's a case of Park it safe and walk it and if needs be Taxi back up the hill to retreve it. It's free parking in the Coop car park depending how much you spend and for how long.

Sorry but that is just how it is until someone comes up with the idea of a Bus or train services for Whitby.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: bill\sables
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:16 AM

The top of the first page of the programme gives the address and opening times of the festival office, and the middle pages of the events programme (Yellow pages)show a map of every venue of the festival along with festival office and all the car parks.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:28 AM

Every increase in point size adds to the cost of production of a paper printed document. I just tried moving the points to 12 point - fairly standard I guess. That action increases the cost to around double - who pays £8 for a festival programme? As I've said, we're taking your comments seriously and will make some changes to the website asap. But we still need a paper programme at the festival itself.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:50 AM

I'm still waiting to hear some thankyou's to the festival volunteers who spend their time in working (many have fulltime jobs)to provide the festival. Without them you wouldn't have anything to complain about nor would you have a festival to go to.

It is very easy to find fault - it is far harder to give time and effort to ensure that at least 99.9% of the people attending have a happy experience.

If the programme text is too small then the most sensible solution would be to invest in a small credit card magnifier available at most newsagents.

Putting the program on line may not be a total solution. This years Saltburn Festival prog was on-line but not downloadable so still required you tu buy a programme if you needed or wanted to have the info to hand.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Cats
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:06 AM

Nutty .. I said thank you, even though this year I couldn't go. I also said how i apprciate all the hard work. I wasn't whinging, just offering a solution for a way round those who need alternative versions under the DDA which all festival organisers must comply with.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:13 AM

Putting the program on line may not be a total solution. This years Saltburn Festival prog was on-line but not downloadable so still required you tu buy a programme if you needed or wanted to have the info to hand.

That's actually a good idea. If the paper programme is an essential source of income it makes sense to make it harder to print your own. When reading advance publicity, you don't need hard copy anyway.

In practice I can't imagine many people trying to print their own for a large programme. A commercially printed one will always be more usable than a pile of sheets off your home printer and 4 quid isn't going to break the bank.

The top of the first page of the programme gives the address and opening times of the festival office

But nothing on the website does, unless you want to go to Bradford. Since the office is where I'd expect to go to buy the programme, having its secret location only revealed in the programme itself doesn't exactly help.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,tom foxe
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:21 AM

Plus and Minus Whitby points:
-1. Feedback forms only available from Festival office -maybe you could put them in programme ?
-2. I made an email emquiry about the brilliant Irish poet Locker o++
-+? Donnelly as he wasn't in the programme, also googled but no joy & email bounced back - can anybody help please |?
Too many venues were simply TOO HOT with poor or no ventilation. I didn't attend the Rifle Club which I'm told was the worst, but was forced to leave the Resolution Concert Room. which had non-opening sash windows, many of them had large extractor fans but it weems they were part of an old installation, the room has 3 large aircon units but you wouldn't know it for all the good they did.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Ruston
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:21 AM

Yes - thanks to everyone for the hard work. Of course there were glitches, failing to book advertised venues being a pretty major one, but we all survived. I think that the biggest problem we face now is, as I understand it, the apparent desire of Scarborough council to keep the Folk Festival and the Regatta as a permanent twin booking and maybe take over the running of it all themselves. Whether they have their eyes on moving the FF to Scarborough itself has also been mooted.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,TOM FOXE
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:29 AM

- Don't keep staples near your PC - they play havoc when they get in the keyboard ! Sorry, didn't mean to send message without positives.
+1. Helpful, hardworking, cheerful festival volunteers.
+2. Brilliant performers, esp. the women singers and funny guys.
+3 Extra performers drafted in when some didn't turn up.
A big THANK YOU to all organisers & helpers.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Nick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:06 AM

There was a programme of sorts on the site last year I think - Whitby Progamme 08 PDF though it doesn't mention the locations!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Diva
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:15 AM

A huge thank you and well done to the festival committee and organisers and all the stewards. As I am involved with a festival in the Scottish Borders I know exactly what its like for us, for an event the size of Whitby I don't know how they are not quivering wrecks by the end of the week.

Things go wrong......its part of the deal....

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:15 AM

A Google search for links to the URL of that PDF draws a blank. How were you supposed to find it?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Nick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:17 AM

I don't know - I can't remember where I came across it but I found it last week

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,jim mac farland
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:42 AM

hi tom foxe

the info you wanted on the "racker donnelly" (peter donnelly)can be found at [e-mail]

this info. is on his CD "rhymes of the racker" -- great cd--

hope this helps

jim

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:53 AM

Crikey!

First, THANK YOU everyone for Whitby Folk Week. I suspect all those who think this are a) still recovering and b) decided not to read a thread which could be interpreted as being critical.

1. I too found programming clashes/ be in two places at once. Then I asked myself "Would I be willing to take on this job?" and shut up pretty quickly.

2. I found feedback forms at two workshop/concert venues and at the spa.

3. Jack - I just don't get you. If you were to go to the Festival Office, you'd be at the festival. What's your point about not knowing where it is, if you say you're never going? Well, not until you get your own copy well in advance of it being available. I wonder if you mean a year-round office, which I suspect is a series of volunteer kitchens, spare rooms etc. Also, there's a great danger that if you wait for a programme, it will be way too late to find anywhere to stay. (Sorry, organisers, if you still have camping available at that point. Me, I'm booked for next year already.)

4. Last year's programme was for LAST year. Why should it still be available online?

5. Move to Scarbro'? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't even make me imagine it.

6. Again, THANK YOU everyone for WFW.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: LesB
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:54 AM

One mans meat etc, Re Racker Donnoly. I had to go out of the concert, he was driving me round the bend!
See we all like different things.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:04 AM

Scarborough council have mooted this move before - it isn't viable because Scarborough is too big and there aren't enough venues in close proximity to one another. The Regatta can't be fixed because of the issue of the tide and the Folk Week can't be fixed because of the calendar of festivals nationally which it has to fit into. It ain't going to happen.Even the Musicport World music festival (conceived in Whitby) has moved to Bridlington this year because the terms and accomodation for events are better than could be offered elsewhere.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:11 AM

Who's on which day!

Firstly a big thank you to all the organisers!
Yes it would have been nice to see the full programme online but I always buy a paper copy anyway as a souvenir and season ticket holders get one free. Now to the website - the home page gives a brief description of the festival and the dates are clearly shown. There are then links to the guest lists, camping arrangements, tourist info and even music to download for one of the workshops. The pdf of daily appearances whilst not giving details of venue and times does give anyone coming for a short time the chance to make a decision based on who is appearing that day. Whitby does not go for the BIG headliner acts so if you miss seeing someone you will almost certainly get the chance to see them again somewhere else during the week. The festival office is only open during folk week and was signposted on most routes into Whitby. Programmes were also on sale in many pubs and shops and at the tourist info office. There were some programme changes but these were publicised in the Wailer as soon as they were known and although it can be frustrating to turn up to an event that isn't happening or worse has already happened no festival of that size is going to run without some problem arising.
Let's give credit where credit is due and say thanks for a bloody fantastic week!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Willa
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:13 AM

Glad to see that most of the posts here are positive & constructive.
I agree with Ray and Nutty.
There were 616 events in the programme; the mind boggles at the organisation required! Yes, events were moved, artists were missing, but these things happen and clearly the programme, printed in advance, can never be set in stone.
I attended/stewarded two workshops every day, had at least another seven hours of sessions/concerts every day.Tremendous value for money!!
I took feedback forms to my workshops; don't know whether that was generally done.
Some people do not go into the office at all and so miss the Wailer and notices re changes; perhaps the need to CHECK venue times/details could be made clearer on the website and in the programme.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:21 AM

The unnamed Irish singer mentioned by Ray Padgett is Tom McCarthy ... and he wasn't billed because he wasn't a booked artist. In fact, having travelled up on the train from London with him and one or two others, I think his decision to come to the festival was rather late in the day (and he thoroughly enjoyed himself). Racker Donnelly is certainly an acquired taste ... and can be quite intense ... but when he hits the right buttons is intensely funny!! (Although somebody really ought to fill him in with the correct history of Woking - severe distortion there !!! [grins])

Re the timetable, there certainly was a version up on the web last year (2008) - it was the only means I had of finding out when I was on the bill!!! (Different organisers). Sidmouth certainly publishes their full programme on the web about a month before the festival kicks off.

And as to feedback forms , I saw only one, in the hands of a lady in the Football club late on Friday night. I would certainly like to have had one to fill in, but had not seen one all week. (I gather from speaking to someone on that night that they were in the Festival office, but had been somewhat lacking in profile and visibility). Maybe someone should consider putting something up on the website??

The Wailer, principle organ of information about changes to events and venues, seemed to be lacking in visibility as well. I popped into the office nearly every day to get hold of one, but in previous years, I had normally bought mine from one of the venues. This year I didn't see hide nor hair of any at any of the venues I attended - was this a change I wonder?

Anyhow, a great week as always. Disturbing, though, to hear rumours that the politics of the local council might be involved in the double scheduling of the regatta against the festival. Tides were apparently suitable for the regatta two weeks before the festival week, and two weeks after it. Talking to a couple of local B&B owners they like the clash no more than we did, as it effectively loses them money. More worrying still the rumour that the council would like to see the festival moved to Scarborough!! For me the appeal of the festival is its traditional nature AND the charm of the location... I would certainly feel no attraction at all to the idea of going to Scarborough as the venue - please say it ain't so?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:23 AM

Composed and posted that before the other comments about Scarborough materialised!!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:24 AM

Great Festival (as ever)
There is so much on that you really need to do a month's advance planning to make sure you don't miss anything. I found last years on-line programme useful, but in a place like Whitby it is essential to know where things are, unless teleportation comes free with the season ticket.
I would like something that can be downloaded into a spreadsheet so that I can play with it (eliminate the ones I know I won't go to).

I agree with the excellent suggestion -
"Also, under each biog, why not put the event numbers they are appearing at, saves a lot of searching. And while they are about it why not put a biog in for all performers" . Would help a lot.

The fact that you put a little info on the workshops (e.g. that it is no.4 of 5) is an improvement. But some entries are still mysterious to the uninitiated. The entry PLAYFORD would mean nothing, looking up the entries for the workshop leaders (if you had time between rushing to the other things you didn't want to miss) would give you a clue that it was some kind of dancing, but little else. One year we went to a North West clog workshop, expecting something like the Lancashire Wallopers or Camden Clog do, and found it was NW Morris. Too late to run off to one of the other good things we were missing.

You give free programmes to season ticket holders, but why, oh why do I have to faff about and waste a stamp sending for my advance copy? Please can I ask and pay in advance when I book. My husband pulls the middle out of his, so 1 souvenir programme (in advance) and 1 working programme would be enough for us. It might save the festival a few pence to give the working programme free to season ticket holders and ask them to pay for the full one. Is there a paperless, email option for advance publicity?

Keep up the good work (we've got our tickets and flat booked for next year)

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM

Maybe we should all write to Scarborough council petitioning them to leave OUR festival alone.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 09:18 AM

I started going to Whitby Festival in the early days. When the whole festival cdould be organised around the Mission to Seamen. When I said this at one of our workshops there was shocked disbelief.

At such a massive event and let's remind ourselves built up, organised and grown by people who basically have not taken a cent for themselves, then we have to appreciate there will be mistakes. It happens.

I sincerely believe that anyone who is offering criticism - should do so quietly to the organisers - who I am sure will take their messages on board. They really also ought to be prepared to help in some way in the organisation. There will be something you can do.

My wife wants to know why we have not been before as a married couple. (I had, she hadn't). She enjoyed the Irish workshops with Jerry O'Reilly, whilst I was off hanky-waving. Read into that what you will!!

We'll be there next year. Something better is unlikely to come up.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Shelagh
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 09:51 AM

Whitby Folk Festival is ALWAYS the week running up to the August Bank Holiday, so you can work out next year's dates right now!
As far as the small print goes, for many years I've been getting my programme in advance and photocopying each page onto A4 size so's I can read it more easily. Since I left work I've been scanning it and blowing it up that way.
Yes the first part of the week was a little frustrating - going down from the campsite to the Royal Hotel, only to find out that I should have been at the campsite didn't make me a happy bunny but the excersise did me good.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM

'And while they are about it why not put a biog in for all performers" . Would help a lot.'
You're dead right!
As the guy who puts the blogs in the programme I'm a bit frustrated by the people who sent their stuff in the week before last (no names – look at the gaps) and the people who, despite my clear request for 300 dpi pics still managed to send in postage stamp sized photos. I can turn water into wine, but miracles, I don't do!
I really liked the suggestion of feedback form in the programme – we sometimes, for printing reasons, have to include blank pages and suggestions like this are great. Watch next year's prog. For the last two years we have tried to put the list of numbers of events next to the artist- sadly the booking database was set up so that this was very difficult. We're working on that too.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: sid
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:18 AM

This thread started with someone saying they missed a concert because they couldn't find it in the programme - then someone else said that they went, but couldn't get in 15 mins early, suggesting that a lot of people did find it, like they found everything else. So that works then!
I've been going to Whitby for 30 odd years, since the days of Church House, the scout hut and the Garland hanging from the rafters in the old Spa! - it's always been a great week and a good holiday, despite being in Yorkshire.
I'm now a regular steward at the football club each evening and this year even did a couple of "turns" to help with programme changes as both the organisers and artists were anxious to maintain a standard and to ensure that the show would go on despite all the scheduling problems thrown in their way.
Let's not forget that Malcolm Storey and others grew the festival to what it is now and grew with it, the new committee have had to catch these bouncing balls and keep them in the air, and they're not doing a bad job either. Things are still changing and will probably continue to do so. Moaning and complaining is easy and depressing, volunteering and helping is difficult but more rewarding - you choose!
SID

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:28 AM

The blank pages are useful for noting the various times when an act you don't want to miss is on. Or jotting down dance instructions and other info. that you want to remember when you get home.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: LesB
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:39 AM

May I congratulate the stewards on Stakesby for keeping the 'facilities' in such good order. Also the weather for doing it's bit & being the dryist whitby for years.
As for Whitby moving to Scarborough, well it wouldn't be Whitby then. Most people come to the folk week because it is in Whitby & we all love Whitby.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,flyingcat(moira)
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 11:38 AM

I'd like to add my appreciation to the organisers. stewards and averyone who contributes to creating this huge event. It was a great festival. so much going on, such a choice of events, dances, concerts, music sessions, workshops, something for everyone. Yes there will be some hiccups but that's life, best laid schemes and all that. I had a wonderful time and look forward to next year. Moira

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tootler
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 03:46 PM

A few observations.

First. I thoroughly enjoyed my day in Whitby and the events I went to were well organised and really enjoyable.

I also found the people in the Festival Office extremely helpful and pleasant. Overall the organisers are to be congratulated on putting on such a successful event year after year.

To Tyke.
I live in Middlesbrough and go to Whitby on average about once a month and have been doing so for the past 30 years, so I am thoroughly aware of the parking situation. In fact, I left my car some distance from Whitby and rode the last bit on the bus and went back at tea time to fetch it when the parking situation had eased. My observation was for those visiting from away who are not familiar with Whitby and for whom, some advice and guidance on the website would be helpful.

To bill\sables
Having the location of the festival office on the programme is not a lot of use if you are wanting to go there to buy a programme. The location also needs to be on the website. I found out the location by asking at the tourist office which was no problem as I had come in by bus and was close by the tourist office. However, if you had managed to park your car on West Cliff... Well I leave you to figure it out.

I found the pdf and I thought it a good idea, though it was not a lot of use to me personally as I am more interested in the participation events. I do think the link could have been a little more prominent, though. I think that particular page could have been made so much more useful if it had been more complete and included times. It helps with planning. How about another similar pdf with the participation events - workshops, sessions and singarounds - with the names of the leaders? This would be very helpful.

I am looking forward to going next year and hope to be able to spend a little more time than one day.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tootler
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 03:58 PM

I forgot to mention dancing in the list of participation events. How could I be so lax?

I love watching the dancers and I love the music, but feel uncomfortable doing it myself. I feel like I have two left feet.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:42 PM

Could it just be that Scarborough Council are deliberately making things difficult in Whitby so we'll move to Scarborough????Hmmmm!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tig
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:58 PM

Didn't realise you had done the programme Paul. Other than a list of 'Who's on Where?' I was more than happy with it, thanks. For those who REALLY don't want to pay for the paper it's written on ask for a working programme - no biogs etc.

On behalf of the stewards on the Rugby Club may I say a big 'THANK YOU' to all of you on our site. Other than a few hiccups which we tried to put right as soon as possible (sorry to the gents who had cold showers) it was your help to keep the place tidy which made our jobs a lot easier.

We will be running the same system of 'enclaves' with each team having it's own area next year as you seemed to like it. It certainly made it easier to direct people as they arrived. Quick plea - get your bagman to send the correct info as to numbers/what you are staying in as soon as possible so you get the right amount of space.

We will also be enforcing the NO DOGS rule along with the no wheels on the playing area. This is not our choice but Scarborough Council's so we can do nothing about it.

Thanks also go to Peter (club steward) for putting up with us and the amazing butties for breakfast - not to be missed!

I had a good festival and hope you all did too.

Thanks again
Tig

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:13 PM

Thank you to all the organisers - did a a great job trying to cover all eventualities. But as for the programme I would appreciate at least a twelve point font so I could read it easily. It was good that you print it on yellow with black because that helps the partially sighted but there is a minimum standard for type size and it would be great if you could meet this either in paper copy or on your web site so we could print off a copy and enlarge the text to suit, or on the advance note that you send round (sae for programme) add a tick box for a request for a large format programme insert. We would love you even more then...

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:35 PM

Jack - I just don't get you. If you were to go to the Festival Office, you'd be at the festival.

The problem is the other way round. If I was in Whitby for the festival how would I know where the office was?

I've just been through this one, at the early music festival in Csikszereda, Transylvania. I never did find the office; the address on the website (and the paper programme) was wrong and the janitor of that building didn't know where to try. Fortunately I managed to find where one of the first concerts was and picked up a programme from there. Csikszereda is about the same size as Whitby, i.e. big enough to hide an office in so it would you more than a week to find it.

In Penicuik, I had great difficulty finding the festival. There were banners across the street but it took me about an hour to find anyone who could tell me where it was (in a hotel down a side road on the very edge of the village). And Penicuik is a lot smaller than Whitby.

What's your point

Cut out the offensive cliches and don't pretend to be thick.

about not knowing where it is, if you say you're never going? Well, not until you get your own copy well in advance of it being available.

Am I supposed to spend four pounds and an SAE on every festival I'm thinking of going to?

I wonder if you mean a year-round office

They seem to have one, in Bradford. I'm certainly not travelling there months in advance to find out if Whitby might suit me.

there's a great danger that if you wait for a programme, it will be way too late to find anywhere to stay.

Which is why the mail-order programme is pointless and why they ought to put information on the web as soon as they have it.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 06:31 PM

What a brilliant week again, thankyou to all the organisers and stewards who make it possible, Whitby has the best facilities and bands for dancing of any festival in the country and a huge following of people who turn up each year.   Yes the venues are too hot, yes they get crowded and oversubscibed sometimes, but the atmosphere generated by the intimacy of performer and audience is once again unequalled elsewhere and makes up for the conditions. I think the Pavilion Theatre could be used more, but I am in awe of anyone organising such an event and feel churlish in any critisism, long live WFF long may she/he rein supreme amongst festivals.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: vectis
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 09:52 PM

Brilliant week but there were problems when venues were changed because you needed a Wailer in order to know about said changes and I never saw one for sale during the whole week.

I went to a concert because it had Strawhead and other artists, I paid for my ticket and waited, and waited, and waited. No Strawhead. No one told me they weren't appearing the concert merely ended and they still hadn't appeared.
It would have been good if the steward had told me when I bought my ticket. I would still, probably, have paid and stayed but I wouldn't have felt slightly cheated at the end of the evening. A lot of ticket holders left at half time, I wonder if they were disappointed too.

I appreciate the workload thet the organisers are under and on the whole things went well despite some turnip heads deciding to run the regatta being during Folk Week.

The problem of ensuring people (including non-season holders) get to find out about last minute changes when most don't have computers with them is one that needs to be addressed. Possibly posters in the windows of some shops, pubs etc put up every day with additions, cancellations and venue changes would work and be a fairly cheap option.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Soldier boy
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 11:23 PM

You never will please all of the people all of the time. You'll always find some gripers.

A very well done to all the organisers. This is and has been, my favourite folk festival in the UK, for the past 20 years and Scarborough has no chance of trying to snatch it!

I might be missing something here; but surely an initial summary and synopsis of what a festival has to offer; with a list of artists booked and details of workshops and morris teams attending and camping and accomodation details etc etc on a website, should suffice well enough to whet anyones appetite and enable them to make a decision on whether to attend a festival or not and then to send off for the programme for the full details if they are really interested.

Why should you possibly need a full programme and schedule detailing every single event, hour by hour and day by day at such a huge week-long festival, posted on the website? Surely advance ordering of programmes and sales during the festival are an essential income generator for that festival. So why should organisers shoot themselves in their income-generating foot by allowing freeloaders to download and print off every single detail on line for nowt?

Is £4.00 for a programme (+ sae) really too much to fork out?

On the subject of the location of the official festival office, however, this really must be made ever so clear on the web site.

Jack Campin! Your comments are becoming more and more offensive here. Tut tut! Calm down boy!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:37 AM

Just a thought for you Paul, if you video all next years festival events you could put it on utube for the following year, certain moaning buggers could then watch it from the comfort of their armchairs and you and the rest of the committee could get your life back and perhaps spend the summer relaxing on an island in the sun somewhere

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Michael
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:49 AM

Steve Gardham said:-
"Could it just be that Scarborough Council are deliberately making things difficult in Whitby so we'll move to Scarborough????Hmmmm!"

This is a question we have asked several times over the last few years, we know that Scarborough Council (who are also Whitby's council)invited Malcolm Storey to take 'his' festival to Scarborough.
The gist of his reply was 'NO!'

We also know someone who has for many years been involved in the National Student Drama Festival, a week long event in Scarborough, and is also involved in Whitby Folk Week. He has always said that whilst being an ideal venue for the former it does not have the facillities for Folk Week (availiable concert venues, small venues, camping etc) and what it does have are too far apart. NSDF is held in The Week Before Easter when not much else is happening.
WHITBY Folk Week isn't. QED

Cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:19 AM

In spite of some glitches most folkies have a good week. This time we found the May Cheadle "not ready for a full session" lunchtime event in the pavilion was excellent. The participants and people going to the cafe had the benefit of the music - and May herself said she enjoyed it. Please can we have that again next year?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:52 AM

I might be missing something here; but surely an initial summary and synopsis of what a festival has to offer; with a list of artists booked and details of workshops and morris teams attending and camping and accomodation details etc etc on a website, should suffice well enough

It would, but somebody would have to edit it.

Why should you possibly need a full programme and schedule detailing every single event, hour by hour and day by day at such a huge week-long festival, posted on the website?

You don't, but it would probably be easier to provide the raw information than edit the times and places out to create two different versions, and then try to keep them in sync.

Surely advance ordering of programmes and sales during the festival are an essential income generator for that festival.

Up to the organizers to say, but I'd bet they sell far more programmes at the event - like just about every other festival I've ever heard of.

So why should organisers shoot themselves in their income-generating foot by allowing freeloaders to download and print off every single detail on line for nowt?

It's hardly "for nowt". The hassle of printing off a large festival programme at home and lugging loose sheets around means that hardly anybody would do it if they could buy a bound hard copy at the event.

Is £4.00 for a programme (+ sae) really too much to fork out?

It is when you haven't decided to go and it's only available too late to swing your decision.

Jack Campin! Your comments are becoming more and more offensive here.

When some bystander comes out with patronizing shite like "what's your point?" you can hardly expect me to be polite back. (On the other hand, the organizers posting here have been perfectly reasonable).

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

I didn't have a programme nor did I know where the Festival Office was before I arrived in Whitby.

To find the Festival Office I followed the big yellow AA signs that had "Festival Office" on them. I thought the clue was in the name. Clearly that was too much detail for some people.

It looks like we are back to the thread on Sidmouth whereby those who were there thought it was great; those who weren't there thought it was badly organised. (Copywrite-Derek Schofield).

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Michael
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:26 AM

When some bystander comes out with patronizing shite like "what's your point?" you can hardly expect me to be polite back.

And that, Jack, by sinking to their level, is how threads degenerate.

cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:52 AM

Jack - as the 'bystander' responsible for the 'patronizing shite' I apologize unreservedly for my phrasing, since you found it offensive. I think exasperated was what I was aiming for - and not with you personally.

Maybe knowing where the Festival Office was (thanks not least to signposts mentioned above on my first Whitby) and knowing it is a temporary arrangement for that week only, I truly could not understand the point you were trying to make. Perhaps I should have mentioned the signs.

Knowing the organisers, I'm sure that the website will have at least some of the information you are hoping for. If you do make it to Whitby, I hope you will enjoy it as much as those who return year after year.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:14 AM

There were plenty of options to buy a wailer if nyou needed one, The Leisure centre, The Office, The Spa Pavilion all had them, if you needed them they were available with minimum effort realy.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:20 AM

Just wanted to thank all of the organisers of this superb festival. I had a fantastic time.   Sure there were some glitches, but if 95% of an event involving over 600 events, hundreds of artists, stewards and staff in dozens of venues, goes well, I think that's a miraculous achievement.

Not sure about the comments concerning the dates and the website - they were definitely there, that's where I got them from to book my leave from work. The festival office location of West Cliff School was also shown on the website, as well as on the huge AA signs scattered around town which guided me to the office during the week itself.   During the year, my queries concerning the festival were answered when addressed to the Bradford addresses / email / phone shown on the website.   All of the programme changes that affected me were in the Wailer which was easily available, and I knew which artists were planned for which days from the link that Mrs Duck posted earlier.

Car parking was easy to sort out - typing 'Whitby Car Parking' into Google gave a map of the car parks and method of buying advance parking tickets.   In exactly the same way as I'd found out about travel to anywhere else I planned to visit.

The fact that the festival's organised by volunteers who remained friendly and cheerful despite whatever was thrown at them, makes this event doubly phenomenal. I've so very pleased that so many people care about this music so much that they want to give up their spare time to make Whitby happen.   Thanks a bundle, all of you, you all deserve huge medals adn my life would be much sadder without you.   Congratulations

Joy

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: ossonflags
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:41 PM

Considering Mick Mcgarrys Singaround in Endeavour was mis advertised we did not do to bad - see seperate thread

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:49 PM

"There were plenty of options to buy a wailer if nyou needed one, The Leisure centre, The Office, The Spa Pavilion all had them, if you needed them they were available with minimum effort realy." Unnamed Guest

Actually, all the locations named are very close to each other ... if you had no reason to go to the office/crafts fair/or the Pavilion (and that's a large place) then the "minimum effort" certainly wasn't minimum. As I said above, copies used to be available on sale on the door at the various venues IIRC... I didn't see any on sale at the football club/museum/Conservative club which were the venues that I was most often at ... hence the trek out of my way to the office when I could to obtain one. Options to buy only exist if you know about them ... and that's the first time that I was aware that copies could be obtained at the Pavilion .... I certainly didn't see any there. I wonder if the programme should indicate exactly where, other than the office and craft fair, they are available for purchase? (Not a complaint, by the way - just an observation).

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM

One suggestion for next year. Could a list of programme changes as shown in the wailer be taken by stewards to each venue and a copy at the tourist office - just one copy per venue then people could check at their first event of the day. I agree with Soldier Boy that it is enough for me to know who is appearing at a festival to make a decision about going. I would also make use of the folk network and ask others who have been what they think of it and what to expect. With the internet there is no need to arrive anywhere without having at least an inkling of what they would find there.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

Someone will no doubt be making a note of these suggestions and asking those making em to volunteer to do it!!

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM

I didn't know about the AA signs, and obviously they'd make a difference. Whitby must be the only festival anywhere that manages that, there isn't even a visible one to the Edinburgh Fringe office.

It would still be better to know exactly where. My experience in Csikszereda was about as bad as it could get: progressively worsening undiagnosed coronary artery obstruction and venues all round town, last minute changes because of the weather, and the only sure way to find out what was happening was to go to the venue and check the signboards (stopping every 100 yards to wait for the pain to go away). And Csikszereda is fairly flat. If the last of those AA signs to the Whitby office followed a walk round town and pointed up the hill to the parish church, somebody would have been scraping me off the steps. There must be quite a few punters who'd want to minimize how much walking or wheelchair-pushing they did.


I found the pdf and I thought it a good idea, though it was not a lot of use to me personally as I am more interested in the participation events

Me too - I wouldn't want a lot of detail, and these are the events most likely to change at the last minute, but it would be nice to know what goes on, in general terms.


Whitby Folk Festival is ALWAYS the week running up to the August Bank Holiday, so you can work out next year's dates right now!

If you're in England. We don't have it in Scotland, and the first I knew about it was when the post didn't arrive this morning (posties work to the English holiday calendar). But okay, maybe that'll be in my calendar next year along with the king's birthday in Bhutan.


The Edinburgh Twinge seems like a good model for informing people about last-minute changes. People who can't easily get at Twitter will usually be only a few yards away from someone who can. It's the sort of task that can easily be delegated to an enthusiast.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

OK - for 'week running up to August Bank Holiday' read 'last full week in August'. The Bank Holiday is always the last Monday in August. This year is as late as it gets.

So next year Folk Week, running from Saturday to Friday, is 21-27 August, in 2011 it's 20-26 August, and so on.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:48 PM

Whitby must be the only festival anywhere that manages that

No it isn't. Of the festivals I have attended so far this year - most seemed to have some sort of signage. Except Bradwell. But Bradwell only has about 60 people. And they all know where it is.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:49 PM

For "Bradwell" read "Bradfield" of course.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: TheSnail
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:02 PM

It's the sort of task that can easily be delegated to an enthusiast.

Very much to the point. Folk events like Whitby are almost entirely dependant on unpaid enthusiasts who welcome positive suggestions and offers of help. I think they might appreciate a little thanks for their efforts which they certainly get from me. Had a wonderful time.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:40 PM

Here is my very grateful thanks to Paul Davenport and the host of organisers and stewards who lay on such a great festival.
I do appreciate especially the dedication to keeping the cost down.
Of course I phrased my first post to attract attention but it was in the hope of rallying to my flag all my fellows with vintage vision.
I'm disappointed this hasn't happened. If it had, THEN I could have gone, petition in hand to the organisers.
The thread has gone its own way but folks will regardless have discussed the highs and lows of their Whitby week at the bar of the Station, the Metropole or Cons Club or wherever. Now we're back home Joe and Mudcat generously give us this cyber bar to lean on.
Do keep the chat polite and thanks again to Paul for contributing.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

Bradfield is in the lap of Mark Davies and seems to clash with Cleckheaton next year

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM

"Bradfield is in the lap of Mark Davies and seems to clash with Cleckheaton next year"
A bit of a non-sequitur, methinks, since Dave's comments were about signage !! And in fact, from my one visit to Bradfield a couple of years back, I seem to recall that Mark _did_ actually put some signs (not signage - a horrible Americanised non-word) up on the country lanes to show the location of his barn. It's not the sort of "festival" that would need signs in the same way as a large town like Whitby.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Northerner
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:11 PM

I second the suggestion of having further outlets for notices of programme changes/sale of the Wailer. Whitby's venues are quite widely distributed. I heard of one progamme change only at the last minute and couldn't get to the venue in time for the start. Having said that the MCs were good at letting people know of last minute changes and organisers were also hotfooting it around the venues to pass information on to people. So let's make their work easier!

A good festival. Thank you everyone!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:33 PM

Well yes but the previous gist was about continuity of dates wasnt it?

Signs at Bradfield are certainly required as locals tend to think that they are still at war with the Germans and turn the signposts to confuse!

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:39 PM

Padge-you mean we're Not at War with the Germans? When did that end? Notices would be a good idea- maybe posted at participatng pubs Sation Endeavour and Library etc - a few venues around Whitby would not be too hard to manage.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:41 PM

I've just heard that the Regatta dates are nothing to do with the tides but depend on the availability of the Red Arrows.
Anyone confirm that or am I just being wound up?!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:35 PM

I don't know who Michael is and prefer that he does not speak for me.
There was NEVER any suggestion by anyone official or otherwise that WHITBY Folk Week would move to Scarborough - how could it.
That's like having the Edinburgh fringe in Bristol or anywhere else for that matter.

Regarding the festival office location:
I DO know that the building work meant there was a doubt over this.
The location of the office is normally shown on the pre festival newsletter that goes to ticket holders.
Once in the town the office is signposted.
What more is needed?

It's annoying when people turn opine into fact and there seems to be an awful lot of that on Mudcat.
Even in retirement I can't be bothered to correct them all.
Maybe I could do a mature PhD on correcting WFW myths - I wonder if the lottery people would fund me?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,old salty
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM

your being wound up !!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tig
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

With some of the things people do PhD's on Malcolm I'm sure you could get funding :-) The last thesis I was asked to contribute to was about types of Real Ale.

Or you could just write a handbook on The Challenges of Running a Folk Festival. Most people would never believe it.

It was good to see you looking so well this year.

Hugs
Tig (aka Chris from Doncaster)
xxx

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:41 PM

I've just heard that the Regatta dates are nothing to do with the tides but depend on the availability of the Red Arrows.

I heard that too. It was horlicks then and it is horlicks now.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:17 AM

Careful Linda, you will end up as "Volunteer signs" next year!

You back in harness for next year then Malcolm?

Gawd 'elp us!

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:16 PM

Chris - thanks.
Ray Padgett - NO!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:34 AM

Thanks Malcolm

Whitby ff is Whitby ff and such a lovely "little" traditional affair

It is something to be looked forward to each year

To meet people like Malcolm Storey and all the volunteers and guests that go to entertain and be entertained

Every year brings new songs and people into focus

Long may it be so

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:44 AM

Programmes cost money, and earn revenue. Sensible organisers would not give away their data if they can sell it. And they usually go to press mere days before the event (last minute panics and illnesses, including artistes) and often arrive as they are being asked for. In my experience.

Towersey cost 4GBP for a mere 4.25 days of festival. I refused to buy, and copied what I wanted manually. But then I would be at each ceilidh and go to the free sessions in pubs, despite paying for my ticket. I missed a few things but I have to admit, if Ipayed 4 quid for a programme I would expect to have the info at hand.

They usually list workshops sperately, which is a blessing.

Larger but not exactly large print - Chippenham charges 2.50 GBP for a booklet about 4 times the size of the Towersey 4GBP one, and you can remove the events as one smaller swatch. Towersey is defintely poorer value.

Small goes in pockets, large you can read. It is not all bad.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:44 PM

Sidmouth offered theirs on the net. Which I duly printed out. This was of course extremely inconvenient to cart about and I bought a "proper" one as soon as I could (which really hurt, me being a Yorkshireman and all). Floreat Sidmoutha!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

Whitby Festival also had a "working" programme which could be pulled out separately of the larger one.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Lucy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:46 PM

As a member of the "wrong-making" Wright Family refered to earlier by Les B i'd just like to apologise whole-heartedly if our being missed from the programme caused anyone else any embarrassment.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Lucy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

Oops, that got sent before i'd finished. What i was saying was:

As a member of the "wrong-making" Wright Family refered to earlier by Les B i'd just like to apologise whole-heartedly if our being missed from the programme caused anyone else any embarrassment.

As new-comers to the festival we were a bit disappointed to get left out but also sort of hoped that it might mean we might get a few more "accidental" listeners! I know jews harps aren't everyone's cup of tea, but we also sing a bit and you know, at least it's something a bit different!

That's one of the things i love about Whitby - when you come across new and interesting things as well as old favourites.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 07:45 PM

Lucy ... I can't see that you have anything to apologise for. I've always enjoyed the contributions of the various members of the Wright family at the National, Keith Summers Festival and in the last couple of years at Whitby. I very much enjoyed the only set I saw that you all gave at the Football Club - singing, playing of the Jews Harp and all... good humour, virtuousity, and not bad singing either!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:45 AM

I second that Irene, always an enjoyable contribution from the Wrights.
Jerry.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:04 AM

Re Regatta

Whitby Gazette have Folk Week v Regatta thread

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/Whitby-Regatta-and-Folk-Week.5615864.jp

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:41 AM

Programmes cost money, and earn revenue. Sensible organisers would not give away their data if they can sell it. And they usually go to press mere days before the event (last minute panics and illnesses, including artistes) and often arrive as they are being asked for. In my experience.

So, your experience is with incompetently run ones. Most festivals (in any genre and across all of Europe) manage to get advance publicity made available months ahead. The Edinburgh Fringe is the largest arts festival in the world by a huge margin, and they've been getting their programme published and distributed (free) months in advance for decades.

Increasingly the trend is for all programming information to be on the web.   The advantages of properly printed hard copy are so great that almost anybody at the festival will want it - and having the info on the web will get more attendees, so the overall effect will be to boost sales of the paper version.

Saying "we're not going to tell you what's on until you're committed to coming, and even then you're going to have to pay us to find out" is not exactly a welcoming attitude. Particularly when there are dozens of other events the punters could go to at the same time which take the approach of "here's what we'll have, does that appeal to you?"

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 07:15 AM

Thanks for posting that JHW - which confirms (sort of) the conversation which I was present at at which one of the Folk Week organisers was making comments about the clash of the two events, and political wranglings, possible moves. All I can say is that I sincerely hope that some of the comments in that report are incorrect - if Folk Week was to decamp to Bridlington next year (?) then an awful lot of us who have paid our deposits down for accommodation next year are going to be less than happy ! That doesn't sound realistic to me (Interesting to note disgruntled commentator number 6 in the newspaper comments - I wonder why she thinks that accommodation for the week is fully booked, and like hen's teeth to obtain if we are all camping???)

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mo the caller
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Someone commenting on that newspaper article said we are the rudest people.
I can see how anyone wanting a quiet drink in a pub and surrounded by musicians arriving for a session (e.g. the Fllece Balcony) might think this. But presumably sessions are scheduled with the approval of the licensee.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Willa
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:41 AM

Lucy

Your comment -'That's one of the things i love about Whitby - when you come across new and interesting things as well as old favourites.'

Exactly! I was one of those who 'accidentally' found you all, and enjoyed the experience.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 09:44 AM

Re the newspaper article - interesting that one of the locals in a conversation on the Sunday was warning me off going into the town on Sunday and Monday evenings because of the rowdy and dangerous element of the people attending the Regatta. That disgruntled person commenting had obviously not met some of the Regatta crowd ... and was daft enough to say that we all camp (catch me doing that - I like my creature comforts)... wonder why it's always so difficult to find accommodation coming up to the festival if we're all living under canvas?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:08 PM

Jack Campin

It is fairly obvious you are not going to attend Whitby so why not leave them to it and stop wasting valuable voluntary time?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:07 AM

Well said Malcolm. In this world there are two sorts of people, those who do things, and those who stand around criticising. And we know which on you are!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 05:15 AM

"Most festivals (in any genre and across all of Europe) manage to get advance publicity made available months ahead. The Edinburgh Fringe is the largest arts festival in the world by a huge margin, and they've been getting their programme published and distributed (free) months in advance for decades."

It's not really fair to compare the situation at Edinburgh with a festival like Whitby - it's not like with like. Edinburgh does not "programme" a festival as such - the hundreds (thousands?) of artists who take part (and their agents and managers) do. Edinburgh Fringe as an entity simply gathers together the information about what is happening. They have enough staff to actually employ a couple of people whose ONLY JOB is to put together the brochure. Because there are no season tickets as such, with each of the events being independent and tickets to each event being purchased seperately (though there is a central box office), having a free brochure which is available at multiple venues around the town is absolutely vital as a shop window, especially for the smaller acts. Also, because there is so much going on, and because promoters' tickets have to be ordered several weeks in advance of the festival (one of the primary functions of Edinburgh is as a showcase where promoters and media get to see new talent, and hundreds of them turn up for the festival), the brochure simply has to be ready when it is, which is about two months before the festival. As a promoter, you receive the brochure, select the events you want to go to, and e-mail the festival office. A dedicated member of staff then has to ring round the agents or the artists involved in the shows you want to see, and request your tickets, which are then waiting for you when you arrive (providing the agent has said yes). As you can imagine, doing this for all of the press and promoter requests that they get is a massive job. It takes a lot of time. And it's one of the main reasons why the Edinburgh brochure is produced whan it is.

I can see both sides of the argument regarding not printing all of the information about what is happening at a festival in order to encourage programme sales. It is an important revenue stream - and we all know that no one is getting rich from this folk festival business, so I hope that Mudcat members are savvy enough to separate this concept from one of "greed". At Sidmouth, you get a free programme if you buy a week's season ticket, which I reckon is pretty fair.

When I ran a smaller festival, we gave details on the website of who was on on which days, but didn't give times or locations. Those were available in the programme, which cost a few quid to buy. But we also posted a daily timetable of events around the building. Nevertheless, a customer (presumably well-meaning) went home and made a spread-sheet of all the events and made loads of copies, and left them all around the building - presumably so that people would not need to buy a programme. We did not know about this until someone came up to Box Office angrily complaining about its inaccuracies - whoever had done it had made loads of mistakes. We had to apologise profusely, but explain that it was nothing to do with us, and try to hunt down any stray copies that were left around. It seemed like a lot of palaver to avoid paying £3.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:41 AM

Oops! That should of course read, And we know which one you are!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Diva
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:53 AM

I am involved with a festival much smaller than Whitby and am very aware of the work it takes to get ours up and running. Never mind the co ordination that organising 717 separate events must take. Huge thanks to all involved, to the moaners...try running a festival or put your money where your mouth is and offer help

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:17 AM

I went this year to the Festival this year (with the wife) for one day to see the dancers and to go into a sing-a-round.

With the Regetta being on we have never seen such crowds but everyone we saw (and all we talked to) were having a great time.

The only low-point is coming back and seeing the whingers and the comments that they make on this site.

We are looking forward to next year - I would suggest to all those with less favourable comments to 'ship out'

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:04 AM

Jack Campin
It is fairly obvious you are not going to attend Whitby

No it isn't. I'd be more likely to go to it than any other folk festival in England, particularly given Dick Greenhaus's personal recommendation. Won't happen next year but 2011 is a possibility.

But it seems quite a lot of people don't want me there, or any other other new attendees. (The present organizers themselves seem a bit more open minded). The lack of advance information is a complete show-stopper for me.

Specifically: I play instruments and sing a bit; my girlfriend dances. I'd be wanting to go to workshops or other participatory events for music and she'd be wanting to go to others for the kinds of dance she likes at the same time. So we'd need to see the schedule to work out whether that was doable, without one or other of us ending up on our own with nothing to do for long periods. Is that such an outlandish and unreasonable sort of question to ask?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:28 AM

Would somebody who has one volunteer to mail JC a copy of this year's programme, please. I would do it myself, but don't have a copy.

The general scheme of things changes little from year to year, and while such a measure obviously cannot tell him the detail he needs, it may, when intelligently read in conjunction with such "artists booked so far" information as the website provides, enable him to make the decision as to whether or not to come.

As any regular attender of folk week will tell you, arrangements for accommodation need to be made well in advance of a detailed programme having been decided, never mind published.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:39 AM

Jack - The problem is that Whitby is unique and even the programme does not give a full flavour of what is available, as the Whitby Fringe adds a large amount of additional events.

The thing to do is .......

1, Find some form of accomodation.
As people tend to book from year to year this is not as easy a task as it may seem.

2. Buy a programme when you arrive --- they are readily available in the shops in Whitby

3. Buy a season ticket from festival office if you think you can fill your week with workshops, concerts and other official events. If not - buy individual event or day tickets. Some groups buy one season ticket between them and pass it round.

4. Above all - explore. The surrounding coast and countryside are some of the most beautiful in England and should be appreciated. The festival puts on events at Robin Hoods Bay for this very reason.

Whitby is only a small seaside town. Moving from one event to another is not difficult for the ambulant and taxi's are always available.

P

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:05 AM

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:08 AM

How can one say jack that there could be long periods in Whitby with nothing to do.

The place and its surroundings are lovely.

I have 'over the years spent many weeks on Holiday in Whitby (Winter and Summer) and always found plenty of things to do.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 01:28 PM

Jack - 'ending up on our own with nothing to do for long periods'

That can't happen in Whitby. Maggie and I sort out accommodation, buy a programme when we get there, sort out where we need to be, but spend more time on fringe events (which aren't in the programme anyway). You'll never be short of things to do in Whitby or the surrounding area. We often stay on for a couple of days after for a bit of walking etc, as we are far too busy during the Week itself.

You've got to take Whitby Folk Week on trust. It's been running so long in its present form that you know there will be good concerts with good artists, good dances and good workshops with many other good events that you are always spoilt for choice.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Aeola
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:03 PM

Fylde FF have a pretty good layout for their prog, cross ref etc.,and once the format is sorted it is only a matter of update year on year.As for cost of production generally the initial 4/500 usually cost the most and then the cost becomes relatively cheaper. Good luck anyway it's not easy organising a FF.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:19 PM

Jack I don't know how far you'd be coming but do give Whitby a try, (best without a Regatta clash).
It's a wonderful old town and the countryside of the surrounding North Yorks Moors an absolute delight.
If you pm me your address I'll happily send you my this year's programme. (I couldn't read it anyway)
Cheers, John

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:14 PM

Jack,
      It is imposiible to be bored ,at a loose end at Whitby, and I only play flamenco guitar.
                  Mrs Ted Griffin.
                  Pipe smoker of the year 1973

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM

And all the dashing about between events gets you fit (and it's worth it)!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Soldier boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 10:43 PM

Jack campin, your arguments and criticisms are sounding more and more lame,timid and pathetic. They really are getting very boring indeed.
Haven't you got the message yet? Shut up or put up and make the effort next year to come to this festival and enjoy all the delights it has to offer, because with so much on offer, it can't fail to tick all your boxes.
In other words Jack, stop winging from the sidelines and experience it in the raw. You will love it and you will be made very welcome by the whole whitby folkie community. I promise you.
Why do you say that quite a lot of people don't want you there? Man, you are such a sensative soul and take things so personally.My heart bleeds for you. Bless!
We forgive you for all your self-imposed objections and will welcome you anyway.
Bit of a shame that you and your girlfriend lead such diverse lives; with you liking playing and some singing and her liking to dance the night away, so once you hit a festival you go your seperate ways I presume.
For some reason I find that quite funny and it does not surprise me one bit!!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:54 AM

Jack Campin

Towersey is not what I would call a poorly run festival. Steve Heap is nothing if not a consumate businessman. He has obviously decided not to net-publish the programme as a chronological list, nor as a complete dataset.

I know from stewarding that artists illnesses, venue vagaries and acts of god dictate that the publishing of information too early leads to misinformation. And it is the stewards' fault for not predicting the unforseen, usually. As a result programmes get printed at the last possible moment from organisers' bitter experience.

Chippenham publishes a non-printable version of the programme on the web quite early. Bromyard hasn't. Sidmouth did several versions as the EC fraternity remonstrated that their info was incomplete. They responded incrementally. The organisers' thinking is as varied as the punters' expectations, IMNSHO.

And who of us don't make the odd mistake occasionally? Especially when reading any size of print?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:59 AM

I made a last-minute decision to go to Sidmouth for a couple of days. My decision on when, and indeed if, to go was helped immensely by being able to view the advance programme on-line.

Festival-goers seem to be divided between those who are quite happy to go without detailed prior information, and those who want, or need, at least a framework to plan their activities around. It is entirely up to a festival to decide how much, if any, information they wish to publish in advance, and it is entirely up to potential visitors to use that as a basis on which to choose which festivals they go to.

Jack has made a perfectly reasonable point, based on his needs and desires. The OP also made a valid point about getting the information in a legible format. If a festival wants to attract visitors with similar needs and desires, then it can provide the information they seek. If, for perfectly valid reasons, the festival chooses not to do so, it won't get those visitors. It's simply a commercial decision.

I don't see why Jack should be slated for making his requirements known, but it seems to be normal on Mudcat to regard any comment which is not entirely favourable as an attack. On the other hand, the festival is fully entitled to disregard those requirements.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:02 PM

The fact is Whitby did show who was on on which days just not a detailed timetable.