BS: A birther in the Court

Subject: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:45 PM

This shows you how nuts the whole birther thing has gotten.
A fascinating read. Justice does work.




IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA
COLUMBUS DIVISION
CONNIE RHODES,
Plaintiff,
vs.
THOMAS D. MACDONALD, Colonel,
Garrison Commander, Fort
Benning; et al.,
Defendants.
*
*
*
*
*
*
CASE NO. 4:09-CV-106 (CDL)
O R D E R
Plaintiff, a Captain in the United States Army, seeks a
temporary restraining order to prevent the Army from deploying her to
Iraq in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Plaintiff alleges that
her deployment orders are unconstitutional and unenforceable because
President Barack Obama is not constitutionally eligible to act as
Commander in Chief of the United States armed forces. After
conducting a hearing on Plaintiff's motion, the Court finds that
Plaintiff's claims are frivolous. Accordingly, her application for
a temporary restraining order (Doc. 3) is denied, and her Complaint
is dismissed in its entirety. Furthermore, Plaintiff's counsel is
hereby notified that the filing of any future actions in this Court,
which are similarly frivolous, shall subject counsel to sanctions.
See Fed. R. Civ. P. 11(c).
BACKGROUND
Plaintiff's counsel is a self-proclaimed leader in what has
become known as "the birther movement." She maintains that President
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 1 of 14
Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 of the United States Constitution
1
provides in relevant part that "No Person except a natural born Citizen
. . . shall be eligible to the Office of President."
This Court dismissed an earlier action filed by Plaintiff's counsel
2
on behalf of a military reservist based upon that plaintiff's lack of
standing. See Cook v. Good, No. 4:09-CV-82 (CDL), 2009 WL 2163535 (M.D.
Ga. Jul. 16, 2009).
2
Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and, therefore, he is
not eligible to be President of the United States. See Dr. Orly
1
Taitz, Esquire, http://www.orlytaitzesq.com (last visited Sept. 15,
2009). Counsel has filed numerous lawsuits in various parts of the
country seeking a judicial determination as to the President's
legitimacy to hold the office of President. The present action is
the second such action filed in this Court in which counsel pursues
her "birther claim." Her modus operandi is to use military officers
as parties and have them allege that they should not be required to
follow deployment orders because President Obama is not
constitutionally qualified to be President. Although counsel has
managed to fuel this "birther movement" with her litigation and press
conferences, she does not appear to have prevailed on a single claim.2
In fact, Plaintiff previously filed the present action in the United
States District Court for the Western District of Texas. That Court
summarily dismissed her complaint upon finding that Plaintiff "has no
substantial likelihood of success on the merits." Rhodes v. Gates,
5:09-CV-00703-XR, Order Den. Mot. for TRO 3 (W.D. Tex. Aug. 28,
2009). Counsel then re-filed the same action in this Court.
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 2 of 14
The Court observes that the President defeated seven opponents in
3
a grueling campaign for his party's nomination that lasted more than
eighteen months and cost those opponents well over $300 million. See
Federal Election Commission, Presidential Pre-Nomination Campaign
Disbursements Dec. 31, 2008, http://www.fec.gov/press/press2009/
20090608Pres/3_2008PresPrimaryCmpgnDis.pdf (last visited Sept. 15, 2009).
Then the President faced a formidable opponent in the general election who
received $84 million to conduct his general election campaign against the
President. Press Release, Federal Election Commission, 2008 Presidential
Campaign Financial Activity Summarized (June 8, 2009), available at
http://www.fec.gov/press/press2009/20090608PresStat.shtml. It would
appear that ample opportunity existed for discovery of evidence that would
support any contention that the President was not eligible for the office
he sought.
Furthermore, Congress is apparently satisfied that the President is
qualified to serve. Congress has not instituted impeachment proceedings,
and in fact, the House of Representatives in a broad bipartisan manner has
rejected the suggestion that the President is not eligible for office.
See H.R. Res. 593, 111th Cong. (2009) (commemorating, by vote of 378-0,
the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood and stating, "the 44th
President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August
4, 1961").
3
Plaintiff's counsel speculates that President Obama was not born
in the United States based upon the President's alleged refusal to
disclose publicly an "official birth certificate" that is
satisfactory to Plaintiff's counsel and her followers. She therefore
seeks to have the judiciary compel the President to produce
"satisfactory" proof that he was born in the United States. Counsel
makes these allegations although a "short-form" birth certificate has
been made publicly available which indicates that the President was
born in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4, 1961.3
To press her "birther agenda," Plaintiff's counsel has filed the
present action on behalf of Captain Rhodes. Captain Rhodes entered
the Army in March of 2005 and presently serves as a medical doctor.
The American taxpayers paid for her third and fourth years of medical
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 3 of 14
4
school and financially supported her during her subsequent medical
internship and residency program. In exchange for this valuable free
medical education, Captain Rhodes agreed to serve two years in active
service in the Army. She began that term of active service in July
of 2008 and had no concerns about fulfilling her military obligation
until she received orders notifying her that she would be deployed to
Iraq in September of 2009.
Captain Rhodes does not seek a discharge from the Army; nor does
she wish to be relieved entirely from her two year active service
obligation. She has not previously made any official complaints
regarding any orders or assignments that she has received, including
orders that have been issued since President Obama became Commander
in Chief. But she does not want to go to Iraq (or to any other
destination where she may be in harm's way, for that matter). Her
"conscientious objections" to serving under the current Commander in
Chief apparently can be accommodated as long as she is permitted to
remain on American soil.
Captain Rhodes is presently stationed at Ft. Benning, Georgia
awaiting deployment to Iraq. This deployment is imminent and will
likely occur absent an order from this Court granting Plaintiff's
motion for a temporary restraining order.
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 4 of 14
5
DISCUSSION
I. Jurisdiction and Abstention
Plaintiff seeks to have this Court declare a deployment order
issued by the United States Army void and unenforceable. It is well
settled that judicial interference in internal military affairs is
disfavored. As the Supreme Court has explained:
[J]udges are not given the task of running the Army. The
responsibility for setting up channels through which such
grievances can be considered and fairly settled rests upon
the Congress and upon the President of the United States
and his subordinates. The military constitutes a
specialized community governed by a separate discipline
from that of the civilian. Orderly government requires that
the judiciary be as scrupulous not to interfere with
legitimate Army matters as the Army must be scrupulous not
to intervene in judicial matters.
Orloff v. Willoughby, 345 U.S. 83, 93-94 (1953), quoted with approval
in Winck v. England, 327 F.3d 1296, 1302-03 (11th Cir. 2003). The
limitation on the judiciary's involvement in military affairs does
not mean that such interference is never appropriate. However, "'a
court should not review internal military affairs in the absence of
(a) an allegation of the deprivation of a constitutional right, or an
allegation that the military has acted in violation of applicable
statutes or its own regulations, and (b) exhaustion of available
intraservice corrective measures.'" Winck, 327 F.3d at 1303 (quoting
Mindes v. Seaman, 453 F.2d 197, 201 (5th Cir. 1971)). Moreover, mere
allegations of a constitutional violation unsupported by a reasonable
factual foundation are insufficient to warrant judicial review. To
hold otherwise would be to create chaos within the military decision-
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 5 of 14
6
making process and chain of command. As explained below, the Court
must balance several factors to determine whether judicial review of
a military decision is authorized.
Typically, the first issue to be resolved in cases seeking
judicial review of a military decision is whether the soldier has
exhausted all intraservice administrative remedies. See Winck, 327
F.3d at 1304. In the present case, Defendants do not contend that
Plaintiff was required to exhaust her intraservice administrative
remedies, presumably because no procedure is in place for a soldier
to contest the qualifications of the Commander in Chief. Defendants
do argue, however, that the dispute presented by Plaintiff's
complaint is not justiciable in the courts.
Even if a soldier has exhausted her intraservice administrative
remedies, the Court must decline to review the military decision if
the review would constitute an inappropriate intrusion into military
matters. Id. at 1303 & n.4 (citing Mindes, 453 F.2d at 201). It has
long been the law in this Circuit that in determining whether
judicial review of a military decision should be undertaken, the
reviewing court
'must examine the substance of that allegation in light of
the policy reasons behind nonreview of military matters,'
balancing four factors: (1) 'The nature and strength of the
plaintiff's challenge to the military determination'; (2)
'The potential injury to the plaintiff if review is
refused'; (3) 'The type and degree of anticipated
interference with the military function'; and (4) 'The
extent to which the exercise of military expertise or
discretion is involved.'
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 6 of 14
It is not always clear whether the analysis of the appropriateness
4
of judicial review of military decisions involves subject matter
jurisdiction or abstention principles based on comity and respect for the
unique military decision-making process. The Court finds that the proper
analysis in this case requires an evaluation of the deployment order using
principles of abstention. See Winck, 327 F.3d at 1299-1300
(distinguishing subject matter jurisdiction from abstention principles).
7
Winck, 327 F.3d at 1303 n.4 (quoting Mindes, 453 F.2d at 201).
Although certain aspects of the Mindes decision have been eroded
through the years, the Eleventh Circuit has relatively recently
reaffirmed the "unflagging strength of the principles of comity and
judicial noninterference with, and respect for, military operations
that informed" the analysis in Mindes. Winck, 327 F.3d at 1304.
4
Using the Mindes factors as an analytical framework, the Court
finds that it is not authorized to interfere with Plaintiff's
deployment orders. First, Plaintiff's challenge to her deployment
order is frivolous. She has presented no credible evidence and has
made no reliable factual allegations to support her unsubstantiated,
conclusory allegations and conjecture that President Obama is
ineligible to serve as President of the United States. Instead, she
uses her Complaint as a platform for spouting political rhetoric,
such as her claims that the President is "an illegal usurper, an
unlawful pretender, [and] an unqualified imposter." (Compl. ¶ 21.)
She continues with bare, conclusory allegations that the President is
"an alien, possibly even an unnaturalized or even an unadmitted
illegal alien . . . without so much as lawful residency in the United
States." (Id. ¶ 26.) Then, implying that the President is either a
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 7 of 14
8
wandering nomad or a prolific identity fraud crook, she alleges that
the President "might have used as many as 149 addresses and 39 social
security numbers prior to assuming the office of President." (Id. ¶
110 (emphasis added).) Acknowledging the existence of a document
that shows the President was born in Hawaii, Plaintiff alleges that
the document "cannot be verified as genuine, and should be presumed
fraudulent." (Id. ¶ 113 (emphasis added).) In further support of
her claim, Plaintiff relies upon "the general opinion in the rest of
the world" that "Barack Hussein Obama has, in essence, slipped
through the guardrails to become President." (Id. ¶ 128.) Moreover,
as though the "general opinion in the rest of the world" were not
enough, Plaintiff alleges in her Complaint that according to an "AOL
poll 85% of Americans believe that Obama was not vetted, needs to be
vetted and his vital records need to be produced." (Id. ¶ 154.)
Finally, in a remarkable shifting of the traditional legal burden of
proof, Plaintiff unashamedly alleges that Defendant has the burden to
prove his "natural born" status. (Id. ¶¶ 136-138, 148.) Thus,
Plaintiff's counsel, who champions herself as a defender of liberty
and freedom, seeks to use the power of the judiciary to compel a
citizen, albeit the President of the United States, to "prove his
innocence" to "charges" that are based upon conjecture and
speculation. Any middle school civics student would readily
recognize the irony of abandoning fundamental principles upon which
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 8 of 14
9
our Country was founded in order to purportedly "protect and
preserve" those very principles.
Although the Court has determined that the appropriate analysis
here involves principles of abstention and not an examination of
whether Plaintiff's complaint fails to state a claim under Federal
Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6), the Court does find the Rule
12(b)(6) analysis helpful in confirming the Court's conclusion that
Plaintiff's claim has no merit. To state a claim upon which relief
may be granted, Plaintiff must allege sufficient facts to state a
claim to relief that is "plausible on its face." Ashcroft v. Iqbal,
129 S.Ct. 1937, 1949 (2009) (internal quotation marks omitted). For
a complaint to be facially plausible, the Court must be able "to draw
the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the
misconduct alleged" based upon a review of the factual content pled
by the Plaintiff. Id. The factual allegations must be sufficient
"to raise a right to relief above the speculative level." Bell Atl.
Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555 (2007). Plaintiff's complaint is
not plausible on its face. To the extent that it alleges any
"facts," the Complaint does not connect those facts to any actual
violation of Plaintiff's individual constitutional rights. Unlike in
Alice in Wonderland, simply saying something is so does not make it
so. The weakness of Plaintiff's claim certainly weighs heavily
against judicial review of the deployment order, and in fact, would
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 9 of 14
One piece of "evidence" Plaintiff's counsel relies upon deserves
5
further discussion. Counsel has produced a document that she claims shows
the President was born in Kenya, yet she has not authenticated that
document. She has produced an affidavit from someone who allegedly
obtained the document from a hospital in Mombasa, Kenya by paying "a cash
'consideration' to a Kenyan military officer on duty to look the other
way, while [he] obtained the copy" of the document. (Smith Decl. ¶ 7,
Sept. 3, 2009.) Counsel has not, however, produced an original
certificate of authentication from the government agency that supposedly
has official custody of the document. Therefore, the Court finds that the
alleged document is unreliable due to counsel's failure to properly
authenticate the document. See Fed. R. Evid. 901.
10
authorize dismissal of Plaintiff's complaint for failure to state a
claim.5
Examining the second Mindes factor, the Court further finds that
the risk of potential irreparable injury to Plaintiff as a result of
the Court's refusal to review the deployment order is minimal.
Plaintiff has not sought to be excused from all military service.
She does not seek a discharge from the Army.   She does not even seek
to avoid taking military orders under President Obama's watch. She
simply seeks to avoid being deployed to Iraq.   As observed by the
Eleventh Circuit, one "cannot say that military deployment, in and of
itself, necessarily entails [irreparable harm], even if to volatile
regions." Winck, 327 F.3d at 1305 n.9. "Holding otherwise could
unduly hamper urgent military operations during times of crisis."
Id. Thus, the lack of potential irreparable harm to Plaintiff weighs
against judicial review.
Finally, the "type and degree of anticipated interference with
the military function" that judicial review would cause is
significantly burdensome. Any interference with a deployment order
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 10 of 14
11
injects the Court directly into the internal affairs of the military.
This type of interference has serious implications. For example, it
would encourage other soldiers who are not satisfied with their
deployment destination to seek review in the courts. It also will
have an adverse effect on other soldiers who honorably perform their
duties. Presumably, some other military doctor, who does not resort
to frivolous litigation to question the President's legitimacy as
Commander in Chief, would be required to go to Iraq in Plaintiff's
place. Similarly, the doctor who Plaintiff is being sent to relieve
and who has likely been there for months would be delayed in
receiving his well deserved leave because his replacement seeks
special treatment due to her political views or reservations about
being placed in harm's way. "It is not difficult to see that the
exercise of such jurisdiction as is here urged would be a disruptive
force as to affairs peculiarly within the jurisdiction of the
military authorities." Orloff, 345 U.S. at 94-95.
Based on an evaluation of all of these factors, the Court
concludes that it must abstain from interfering with the Army's
deployment orders. Accordingly, Plaintiff's motion for a temporary
restraining order is denied, and her complaint is dismissed in its
entirety.
II. Failure to Satisfy Elements for Temporary Restraining Order
Even if the Court did not abstain from deciding the merits of
Plaintiff's claim, the Court finds that Plaintiff has failed to
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 11 of 14
12
establish her entitlement to a temporary restraining order.
Plaintiff must establish the following to obtain a temporary
restraining order:
(1) [Plaintiff] has a substantial likelihood of success on
the merits;
(2) irreparable injury will be suffered unless the
injunction issues;
(3) the threatened injury to [Plaintiff] outweighs whatever
damage the proposed injunction may cause the opposing
party; and
(4) if issued, the injunction would not be adverse to the
public interest.
Schiavo ex rel. Schindler v. Schiavo, 403 F.3d 1223, 1231 (11th Cir.
2005).
As explained previously, Plaintiff has demonstrated no
likelihood of success on the merits. Her claims are based on sheer
conjecture and speculation. She alleges no factual basis for her
"hunch" or "feeling" or subjective belief that the President was not
born in the United States. Moreover, she cites no legal authority
supporting her bold contention that the alleged "cloud" over the
President's birthplace amounts to a violation of her individual
constitutional rights. Thus, for these reasons alone, she is not
entitled to a temporary restraining order.
Second, as previously noted, the Court's refusal to interfere
with Plaintiff's deployment orders does not pose a substantial threat
of irreparable injury to her. Plaintiff does not seek to be
discharged and apparently is willing to follow all orders from her
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 12 of 14
13
military command except for any order that deploys her to Iraq.
Although close proximity to any combat zone certainly involves
personal danger, Plaintiff, somewhat disingenuously, claims that fear
is not her motivation for avoiding her military duty. She insists
that she would have no qualms about fulfilling her duties if
President George W. Bush was still in office. The Court cannot find
from the present record that deployment to Iraq under the current
administration will subject Plaintiff to any threat of harm that is
different than the harm to which she would be exposed if another
candidate had won the election. A substantial threat of irreparable
harm related to her desire not to serve in Iraq under the current
President simply does not exist.
Third, any potential threatened injury that may be caused to
Plaintiff by the denial of the temporary restraining order certainly
does not outweigh the harm that will result if the injunction is
granted. As mentioned previously, the threatened injury to Plaintiff
is not substantial; yet if the temporary restraining order was
granted, the harmful interference with military operations would be
significant.
Finally, Plaintiff has failed to establish that the granting of
the temporary restraining order will not be adverse to the public
interest. A spurious claim questioning the President's
constitutional legitimacy may be protected by the First Amendment,
but a Court's placement of its imprimatur upon a claim that is so
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 13 of 14
14
lacking in factual support that it is frivolous would undoubtedly
disserve the public interest.
For all of these reasons, the Court finds that Plaintiff's
motion for a temporary restraining order should be denied.
CONCLUSION
For the reasons previously stated, Plaintiff's motion for a
temporary restraining order is denied and Plaintiff's complaint is
dismissed in its entirety. Defendants shall recover their costs from
Plaintiff. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 54(d).
IT IS SO ORDERED, this 16th day of September, 2009.
S/Clay D. Land            
CLAY D. LAND         
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
Case 4:09-cv-00106-CDL    Document 13      Filed 09/16/2009    Page 14 of 14

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:20 PM

Orly Taitz's Client Files A Complaint Against Her
By David Weigel 9/19/09 10:23 AM

"Bad news for Orly Taitz, the indefatigable birther attorney. On September 17, she filed a motion of consideration on behalf of her client Capt. Connie Rhodes, asking for her deployment to be delayed. It was, typically for Taitz, overheated and incoherent: "[T]his court ignores some of the soundest and most carefully researched and professionally assembled and presented evidence, collated and substantiated by a former agent of England's Fabled 'Scotland Yard.'"

Taitz's motion was dismissed in an exasperated decision by Judge Clay Land that should definitely be read in full–I've provided an excerpt after the jump...

But the twist today comes from Capt. Rhodes herself. She has sent a letter to Judge Clay Land, blasting Taitz for filing the motion to stay her deployment without even asking her.

I do not wish for Ms. Taitz to file any future motions or represent me in any way in this court. It is my plan to file a complaint with the California State Bar due to her reprehensible and unprofessional actions"...

http://washingtonindependent.com/60122/orly-taitzs-client-files-a-complaint-against-her

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:22 PM

snopes.com covers another court case relating to the birthers.
Federal judge dismisses a complaint by attorney Philip Berg, who claimed Obama was born in Kenya.

Link to the Obama birth certificate page on snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:30 PM

And here is yet another one:Dismiss Memorandum

retired Air Force Colonel worried he may be called for duty and is uncertain that the commander in chief was born in the US.

Memorandum from the US District Court linked says "This case, if it were allowed to proceed, would deserve mention in one of those books that seek to prove that the law is foolish or that America has too many lawyers with not enough to do."

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 04:37 PM

Here's an excerpt fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Taitz

..."In his opinion, Judge Land opined on Ms. Taitz: "Her modus operandi is to use military officers as parties and have them allege that they should not be required to follow deployment orders because President Obama is not constitutionally qualified to be President". The judge cited evidence the plaintiff submitted, including an online AOL poll, that the plaintiff believed was evidence that President Obama was not a citizen, and therefore she should not have to deploy to Iraq

Judge Land expressed astonishment at Ms. Taitz' apparent misunderstanding of American judicial fundamentals: "Thus, Plaintiff's counsel, who champions herself as a defender of liberty and freedom, seeks to use the power of the judiciary to compel a citizen, albeit the President of the United States, to "prove his innocence" to "charges" that are based upon conjecture and speculation. Any middle school civics student would readily recognize the irony of abandoning fundamental principles upon which our Country was founded in order to purportedly "protect and preserve" those very principles...

Following a petition for rehearing of his original dismissal order, Judge Land sanctioned Taitz for frivolous litigation and ordered her to show cause why she should not be fined $10,000 for abuse of judicial process."

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:52 AM

Memorandum from the US District Court linked says "This case, if it were allowed to proceed, would deserve mention in one of those books that seek to prove that the law is foolish or that America has too many lawyers with not enough to do."

'One Million lawyers' by Tom Paxton

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:02 AM

Crazy Birther is redundant.

I wonder if they would have raised hell if McWar had been elected? He was born in Panama.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:37 AM

BIRTHER !!!!
Is there no noun that can't be turned into a verb, or adjective that can't be buggered about either?
FFS, if people were taught a full and proper vocabulary at school, perhaps they wouldn't need to invent these abysmal mongrel words.
I heard some asshole the other week talking about summiting a mountain.
I despair, really I do.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:14 AM

On the contrary, the flexibility of words as parts of speech is one of the glories of English: look at the Shaxperean formulations, "Grace me no Grace & Uncle me no Uncle"; "He out-Herods Herod"...

BTW my mother's name happened to be Bertha — no relation! She wasn't crazy - or anyhow, not much...

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:58 AM

It may be redundant but it describes what needs to be described. There are many
"birthers" out there who think they are sane.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 10:24 AM

Only because they only talk amongst themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM

Here's a blog post from Orly Taitz to her supporters:

"Notice. Important

September 20th, 2009

I am submitting tomorrow to judge Carter a response to defendant's motion. I will be busy today and tomorrow and will not have much time for blogging. Thank you for understanding.

I will respond to Judge Land's outrageous attack and threat of sanctions. This is very similar to what I have seen in the communist dictatorship in the Soviet Union. When judges refuse to hear the cases on the merits, when they summarily dismiss the case within a couple of days while they are supposed to give the counsel 20 days to respond by their own rules, when they take away from the plaintiffs their right to trial by jury, when they stifle free speech and take away right to counsel by threatening $10,000 sanctions if the attorney ever brings Obama illegitimacy case again, that is tyranny. That is judiciary as well as the top brass in the Department of Justice and Department of Defense colluding in perpetrating massive fraud and treason on the citizens of this country and taking away their constitutional rights. What is next? They will throw me in FEMA GULAG? I hope each and every citizen of this country rises against this tyranny. I will be seeking all means of redress available to me by law. I will be seeking Rule 11 discovery to prove that Obama is indeed illegitimate, my case was not frivolous and not only I don't owe $10,000 in sanctions, but the defendants owe costs and my reasonable attorneys fees. These fees just went up significantly."

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/

**

Ms. Taiz is asking for monetary support from her supporters. It seems to me that's like throwing money away.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

Hey folks if you got money to waste on nuts, I could do with a few bucks ya know

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:47 PM

ah, the secret FEMA Gulag.

"Paranoia runs deep. Into your mind it will creep."

Can they give jail time to people who keep filing frivolous lawsuits?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM

Just a thought "Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 of the United States Constitution
1
provides in relevant part that "No Person except a natural born Citizen
. . . shall be eligible to the Office of President." "

Thinking of Shakespeare's McDuff, is any person born by Caesarean section disbarred from holding the 'highest office'?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:30 PM

It doen's work for McCain. He father was a senior naval officer and the proper forms were filled out to proclaim his citizenship at the time of his birth.


             I don't have any doubt as to Obama's citizenship, but still find it puzzling why Obama doesn't disclose everything about his birth. Maybe he thinks it's politically helpful to have the right-wing-nuts out there screaming he's not a citizen, or maybe there's something else he doesn't want the public to know.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:38 PM

"doesn't disclose everything about his birth"

That statement is ridiculous!
How many times has the image of the birth certificate been linked to, just on Mudcat threads alone? How many times have the statements affirming its authenticity been made by the authorities at many levels in Hawaii?
You just choose to IGNORE the evidence!!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:23 PM

Obama wrote a book including the move to Indonesia. I don't think he can be more revelatory and he certainly can be no more believe than he already is.

As usual, President Abraham Lincoln said it best:

'If the end brings me out all right,
what is said against me won't amount to anything.
If the end brings me out wrong,
10 angels swearing I was right would make no difference.'

Obama has brought out the crazies more than any President I've lived through except maybe Kennedy. Hopefully it will result in a purge of societal poisons. My fingers are crossed.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:59 PM

From factcheck.org extensive evidence regarding the original Obama birth certificate:

"Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs."

My birth certificate does not show blood type. I don't know of any state that includes blood type on a birth certificate, but some may. What's the big deal about blood type, anyway? There are only 4 types, O, A, B, and AB. There is no point in making an issue about someone's blood type. Unless, of course, you are crazy and believe in conspiracy theories.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:08 PM

'"doesn't disclose everything about his birth"... That statement is ridiculous!'

               Well, I don't know. They were talking about it on "On Point," on NPR last Thursday, and everybody on the show was in agreement that Obama had not disclosed his long-form birth certificate. How could they all be so misinformed?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM

Again, your statement "everybody on the show" is not true.
Just go to to the NPR web site for "On Point", linked below.

The program was showing how crazy Orly Taitz is, the woman who the courts have shown is trying to fabricate birth certificates, like the one supposedly from Kenya (she held up one when I saw her on tv that she claimed was Kenyan, but it was actually a photoshopped fake).
On Point, NPR, Fury of the birthers

Maybe you only heard a few words from the show, not the entire On Point show, but Orly Taitz is a nut case and that's what On Point demonstrated.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:18 PM

"false report that his birth certificate has some how been concealed"
quote from On Point

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:33 PM

Some places issue a birth certificate such as the one Pres. Obama has and has released. Call it "short form" if you want, but it is what the state of Hawaii issues. Some places issue a birth certificate with more information. Call it "long form" if you want, but the state of Hawaii doesn't issue them. My "official" birth certificate (from the state of Virginia) is a little plastic card with raised lettering.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:52 PM

"Maybe you only heard a few words from the show, not the entire On Point show, but Orly Taitz is a nut case and that's what On Point demonstrated."

            Actually, I heard a different show. The show you cite was aired on July 27th. The one I heard was aired last week and it had Kathleen Parker on it.
            On the show I heard, nobody was trying to make the case that Obama was born somewhere else, but they were mostly surprised that he wouldn't produce the long form of his birth certificate. They all seemed convinced that such a thing would be available.

            In Oregon, they issue the little cards as mentioned above, but long form birth certificates can be obtained if the citizen requests it.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:11 PM

This from FactCheck.org:

The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.

To me, but then I'm not a birther, that says that the "short form" is the official document.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:44 PM

So... every president for some reason has to make public a long form of hospital information about their birth??

Again, I say RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Janie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:05 PM

What a crackpot this attorney is!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Ref
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:23 PM

She's a graduate of an unaccredited law school in California and can practice only on California Courts. I'm not sure why the Feds are letting her appear at all. At any rate, she's about to find out how little sense of humor Federal judges and the U.S. Marshal Service have.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:26 PM

What attorney are we talking about?


                Art - I don't question the president's credentials, but if he wanted to shut up the birthers he could do it by presenting the long-form birth certificate. It's certainly up to him.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Janie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:32 PM

I doubt seriously that providing the long-firm birth certificate would shut them up. This is a some what extreme case of people believing what they want to believe. Any evidence that contradicts the belief is likely to be discounted.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:52 PM

If'n them people coud git a short birth certificut faked up, and if'n they coud git somebody in a hospitul in Howaii to send notuces to the newspapers too back it up, then they could fake up a "long form" birth certificut enyhow. Wake up Amerikkka, you kno damn well he's a forun borned Muslin!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

"Muslin" LOL
amazing how many tea party signs I've seen with "Muslin".
Would that be bleached or unbleached muslin?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 10:11 PM

Unbleached!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:12 PM

This is pretty humorous. I suppose it is also traveling around in emails. If I was Obama, I'd save my ten dollars, too.

Why the birthers will never go away.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:36 PM

Surely half-bleached.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 12:26 AM

This is just as insane as the so called "Truthers" on the other side of the spectrum....no matter how much proof they are given, they will come up with an excuse to absolutely deny the facts, because they are getting something out of grandstanding for their questionable cause.

btw should check this out...rather funny.

Daily Show-Born Identity

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:04 AM

I don't know how it is in Hawaii but here is like this.
I have my original birth certificate. It's tattered and yellowed with age, but then, so am I.

The problem, as I see it, is, that there are many people in the "Stupid belt" who will not accept the FACT that we elected a man of mixed race, and they are going to live their lies until the last dog is hung. Bugger the lot I say!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM

Never mind this nonsense.

Where is Barak's mother's marriage lincense?????


When did Barak get his first passport?

where is it?

Where is his vaccination records?

Where is his 7th grade report card.

WHere are his keys?

Where are my socks?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:58 AM

And while we're at it, are his eyes really brown, or is he wearing contacts?
Where's his Harvard diploma?
And what does it REALLY signify that he is left handed?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:05 PM

boxers or commando?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:12 PM

Can he prove that he is a homo sapian?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:32 PM

Glen Beck is going to perform the same test that they did in the movie Thing, they take some blood and try to touch an electric probe to it. If the blood defends itself by moving away - he is not human.
Glen Beck is calling for Barak Obama's blood.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:50 PM

Maybe we should demand that the government produce birth certificates for all the signers of the Declaration of Independence.

If they can't produce them, then maybe the US is still 13 colonies after all.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:38 PM

Nah - none of them were natural-born citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

What they were (or at least most of them) is natural-born subjects of His Majesty, George III!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:42 PM

They would HAVE to be subjects of George III (prior to signing) in order for the Declaration to be valid. What if they were French? If you don't have birth certificates, how do you KNOW?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 07:49 PM

The fascinating thing is that in this court document we see that the legal system
comes around to the fact that legally the birther position has no leg on which to stand.
It's an interesting document in that it ferrets out the absurdity of the birther position
in a matter-of-fact lawyerly way.

If Obama actually responded to these crazies, he would be stepping into a mud puddle which he doesn't need to do. Nothing that is done or said by Obama or anyone else will change the minds of these racists.

We make a mistake in assuming that everyone listens to reasonable and factual presentations. The only available thing to do is to state the facts, not for the benefit of the intractable, but for those whose minds have not become addled by propaganda and prejudice.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 01:32 PM

But the person who really wasn't born in the US is McCain!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:09 PM

Yes, but the conversation has gone beyond where Obama was born. Now they're wondering what he's hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: meself
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:30 PM

You mean, "what he could, possibly, be hiding" - which is a different thing. For instance, he could, possibly, be hiding that he is actually a prince of Krypton, given to an earthly couple to raise as their own.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:34 PM

Why the assumption that he is hiding anything? The more likely reality is that he is too smart and too busy to get drawn into ridiculous scraps of hot-aired, mindless rhetorical exchanges with no value or product to them.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:38 AM

"he could, possibly, be hiding that he is actually a prince of Krypton"

             I guess we'll just have to wonder, and the birthers will continue to raise a disturbance until the truth comes out.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 09:44 AM

"until the truth comes out"

The TRUTH IS out.

get a grip on reality

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:34 AM

No amount of belief can create a fact.
We can take some comfort in the fact that these whackos are few in number.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:26 AM

"The TRUTH IS out."

          Okay, but all of the information is not out!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 01:13 PM

We can take some comfort in the fact that these whackos are few in number.

Comfort? The wacko right wing isn't restricted to Birthers and their numbers in toto seem to be growing rather than shrinking.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:03 PM

All of the information is out.
You are beating a dead horse to keep complaining about a non-issue.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:11 PM

Alice - I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to explain why the issue is still alive.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

It is still alive because FAUX News keeps talking about it. As long as people are questioning, the weak minded will believe there is doubt.

If they were to talk endlessly about how the world might be flat, FOXbots would start believing that it is.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:23 PM

There is doubt about what?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:24 PM

My birth. Some say I was spawned and not born.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Gurney
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:05 AM

Just another red herring for the loonies, but why don't they claim the DATE of the certificate is false?
3 years earlier and he wouldn't have been a NBC, would he? >:-)

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:31 AM

An NBC?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:09 PM

The issue of Obama's birth is a public relations stunt by the likes of Frank Luntz and the G.O.P. noise machine. It's another way to try to trash Obama for political advantage.
Fortunately, the Court sees this and refuses to hear crazy appeals.

Subject: BS: What is Obama's Name (still Soetero?)
From: ichMael
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:21 PM

His name was Barry Soetero when he went to school in Indonesia, wasn't it? Aren't there school records out there showing that? So, when did he become Barack Hussein Obama? Found quite a few articles asking about this on the internet. One says:

Barack Hussein Obama has multiple aliases: Barry Soetoro, Barry Dunham, Barry Obama, Barack Soetoro, Barack Dunham. When he registered with the American Bar Association, he listed none of these as is required by law. Unless he had his name legally changed to Barack Hussein Obama after his adoption, of which there has been no proof presented, Barry Soetoro is his real name and Barack Hussein Obama is an alias.

So, what's his real name?

Transferred to a previous thread on the subject. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:50 AM

And your reliable source is?

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:51 AM

The republican Governor of Hawaii said he saw Obama's birth certificate with his own eyes. That's good enough for me.

Birthers, crawl back under your slimy rocks!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 08:25 AM

Gosh, the first cuckoo of spring. On the 15th April.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 08:45 PM

I do think Barack was wise to drop the "Barry" and use his formal name. No offense to the late, great, Barry Finn.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:52 PM

Hmm. I started a thread, it was closed, and now the post is here. And people are trashing, as usual.

Since discussion of this was shut down so unceremoniously, I started putting together a webpage on the topic:

What is Barack Barry Obama Soetoro's Legal Name?

Under construction, but there are some references there. The final page will only have a half dozen or so facts. Get in, make your point, get out.

And you don't just "drop" your legal name. It takes legal action to change it. If he didn't legally change his name back to Obama after his adoption by Soetoro, then all the legislation he's signing as Barack Obama is invalid.

Someone could save me a few hours work by providing a clicky to Obama's legal name change document.

Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 10:16 PM

I saw that too, Richard. It is interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: GUEST,LadyJean
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:38 AM

Do you know all the things you need a birth certificate for? To get a driver's license, they want to be sure you're who you say you are, so they want a birth certificate. They like them for college applications too, and when you get a passport, they want a birth certificate.
I don't know from personal experience, but I'd bet they want one for the bar exam, and for when someone decides to run for public office.

I heard Taiz speak on some talk show. She seemed to think once she got Obama out of the White House, there would be another election and Hilary Clinton would be president. Which means she doesn't know how the government works, and she is a world class dumb bunny.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 01:12 AM

ichMael: Since discussion of this was shut down so unceremoniously, I started putting together a webpage on the topic:

What is Barack Barry Obama Soetoro's Legal Name?

And after that it will be something else, then something else, then something else. The content doesn't matter at all. It's just the need to have the noise in the air knocking Obama. It's inane.

That link to "why the birthers will never go away" is priceless btw.

also btw, NBC = Natural Born Citizen

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 06:24 PM

Yes, LadyJean, I think you're correct on the one-term thing. By 2012 several states will have laws requiring the presentation of proof of citizenship to be placed on the state's ballot for U.S. President. Obama will most likely bow out, or his handlers will kill him in order to create sympathy for his Democratic replacement. Whatever happens, he sure won't be able to run again.

Obama's been fast-tracked for high office all of his adult life (just like G.W. Bush and Al Gore, Jr.) The normal rules don't apply to them. I seriously doubt that Obama had to go through normal channels (present I.D.) to become a lawyer. And he received a diplomatic passport when he was elected at the state level, in Illinois. Once you have that, you can present it in lieu of all other forms of I.D.

But the birth certificate thing will work itself out, in my opinion. I'm more concerned with the legislation he may be signing illegally with the name "Barack Obama." I'll do some more research on it next week and finish my webpage on the issue, but I doubt that anyone's seen proof of him changing his name from Barry Soetoro back to Barack Obama. And then he seems to have lied on his BAR application about previous names. The name issue is probably as big, and maybe easier to resolve, than the birth certificate issue.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:55 PM

Remember that UFO that went down in New Mexico some decades back? The bodies that were recovered? And how the Air Force tried so desperately to cover up the whole incident, claiming it was nothing but a weather balloon that had blown off course?

I have it on good authoriy that Barack Obama (by whatever name) was cloned from alien tissue and grew up in Hangar 51 where his positronic brain was programmed by subspace transmissions from Phltzlfroomp, the fourth planet of Wolf 359.

And what is his mission, you may ask? Rather than national and international implications, his real mission is of interplanetary importance. It has to do with the life-threatening shortage on the home planet of the Phltzlfroompians of orange Jell-O embedded with miniature marshmallows. Without this, all civilization would collapse in the same way that our economy, and then our civilzation, would collapse if we suddenly ran out of oil, gas, beer, and Big Macs simultaneously.

Once the plans have reached fruition (so to speak) and Obama (by whatever name) has laid the groundwork, little green men will land, storm all gatherings of church luncheons put on by the the Lutheran Ladies' Guilds, and make off with all the Jell-O salads.

If you think that's horrifying, the aliens are planning to assault the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference by replacing all the water in their baptismal fonts with Wild Turkey studded with real, live wild turkeys! And they think that's funny!!

Oh, the horror of it all!!

It is good that you tremble for the future of our planet!

Don Firth

P. S. And how do I know all this? Ever since my last trip to the dentist, whenever I heat up a cup of cold coffee in the microwave oven, I receive the latest bulletins on my new filling.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: MARINER
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 08:52 PM

God's sake will some of you people catch on to yourselves?. Barack Obama is President of the United States and no matter what spurious reasons you bring up he will remain so until he is democratically voted out. I know it pisses many of you people off but try to get used to it. He is Black ,born in Hawaii and is president of the United States.I think some of you spend way too much time watching the despicable Fox "News"

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:17 PM

Mariner referred to the despicable Fox "News"

A leetle mistakie there. That's either "Faux News" or "Fox Noise".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 10:39 PM

TOP SECRET Obama name evidence

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 10:46 PM

All right. Once again, I thank all of you for the abuse. Without it, I might forget that pages like the one below are needed to inform the general public.

What is Barry Barack Soetoro Obama's Legal Name?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona 'birther' bill = bad for Obama
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:17 PM

Oh, bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona 'birther' bill = bad for Obama
From: ichMael
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:20 PM

Some say 10, some say 12 states will have this in place before 2012. Obama was "vetted" by Howard Dean. Can you believe that? Howard Dean and a couple of others on the Democratic National Committee said Obama was qualified to run.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona 'birther' bill = bad for Obama
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:23 PM

Of course, President Obama has produced his birth certificate, and the so-called "long-form" certificate the birthers are looking for no longer exists in Hawaii. In states that do have a "long-form" certificate, it is issued by the hospital and isn't an official document. Hawaii's Secretary of State says that the one Mr. Obama has released is correct and valid. But none of that seems to make any difference to the idiot fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona 'birther' bill = bad for Obama
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:25 PM

The outpatients are out in force tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona 'birther' bill = bad for Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:29 PM

IChmael:

Your bilious-tinted glasses are warped. You should have the lenses corrected.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:37 PM

Great. Another thread shut down and moved here. My initial post was something like:

The so-called "birther bill" won initial approval from the House of Representatives on Monday, advancing legislation that would require presidential candidates to produce a birth certificate before they can make the ballot in Arizona.

The legislation originated from a fringe group that believes President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and therefore ineligible to be president.

Rep. Judy Burges amended Senate Bill 1024 to include a requirement that Arizona's Secretary of State inspect a presidential candidate's birth certificate before that candidate could qualify for the ballot.

Similar laws have been proposed in Oklahoma, Florida and Missouri. None have been signed into law.

Democrats criticized Burges' amendment, saying presidential candidates already had to prove their citizenship before they can run for the office.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/19/20100419birther-bill-arizona-approved-by-house.html

Obama's going to be a one-termer. By the time of the 2012 election, there will be 10-12 states with this in place. He'll bow out of the race. And it's great that this is being kicked off in Arizona, John McCain's home state. In the last election there was some question about McCain's cititzenship, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. So on this one, people won't be able to scream "racism." I need to contact my state reps and get my state moving on this.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:16 PM

This thread should be re-titled coo coo's playground.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:39 PM

Arizona - Social Impact Graph

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:31 PM

I'll keep quiet on this if someone can prove to me that Obama's name is legally Barack Obama. And while you're at it, show me the proof that he was born where he claims. No circumstantial or hearsay stuff--proof.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:51 PM

Ahhhhh, who cares???

If the story line is "Is Barack actually Barack and was he really born on Mars?", hey, ya'll birthers just knock yerselves out... I mean, what's the difference???

Ya'll been paying attention the last 30 years??? I mean it's been one bozo after another and then along comes ____________, you know, the guy from Mars, and he is able to, ahhhhhhh, friggin' ***think*** and ya'll concerned about the constitutionality of havin' the ***thinkin' guy*** as the guy calling the shots???

Ya'll needs to get on some reality meds...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:02 PM

If you can throw out that part of the constitution then you can throw out the part about freedom of speech. The citizenship qualification has to be adhered to.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:35 PM

The title of this thread sums it up.
All the proof needed has already been provided by the state of Hawaii, but those who are crazy will continue to be crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:40 PM

"I'll keep quiet on this if someone can prove to me that Obama's name is legally Barack Obama."

Okay, shut the F&%$k up!

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:48 PM

Hawaiian news, November, 2008

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified By State (click)


HONOLULU -
"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record," DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other.

Some Obama critics claim he was not born in the United States.

Multiple lawsuits were filed to try and force Obama to provide proof of citizenship. Earlier Friday, a southwest Ohio magistrate rejected a challenge to Obama's U.S. citizenship. Judges in Seattle and Philadelphia recently dismissed similar suits.

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:54 AM

Of course, another tack this group has taken is to continue to insist that President Obama is a Muslim. A church acquaintance sent me the e-mail described in this Snopes article. The photograph shows Obama carrying a book titled The Post American World, by Fareed Zakaria, an Indian-born political journalist who has written regularly for Newsweek. The caption caption on the photograph:

What does Obama read?
Hussein Obama with a book in his hands.
He's reading "The Post-American World" — it's a Muslim's view of a defeated America!

The e-mail emphasizes that Zakaria is foreign-born (and says nothing of his American citizenship and his extensive and distinguished U.S. employment history), and refers to Zakaria and "Hussein Obama" as "fellow Muslims." By using the name "Hussein" and indirectly calling Obama a Muslim, the e-mail insidiously serves to support the hatred people have for the President.
As I usually do when people send me deceptive e-mail forwards, I replied to all recipients, providing a link to the Snopes explanation. I told my acquaintance there was plenty of valid information on both sides of most arguments, so there was no need to send such trash.
I got an indignant response from the sender and some recipients, saying that Snopes had a liberal bias, and that the sender was a man of good character, and how dare I send my rebuttal to all recipients.

I'm really tired of the lies and the hatred. The opposition has valid points; but they prefer to oppose Obama with lies and innuendo and thinly-veiled bigotry instead of rational discussion.

The "birther" thing it the most outrageous example of the thinly-veiled bigotry that has become a trademark of conservatives in the U.S.

-Joe-

---

I think I'll take the 'crazy" out of the thread title. I moved one or two of IchMael's birther threads to here since there already was an ongoing discussion of the subject. But in fairness to IchMael, maybe it would be better to have the thread title not quite so opinionated.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A crazy birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:04 AM

It's amazing the rationalizations that hatred will wrap itself in.

Today one of my Facebook friends joined some Facebook group that says "Lord this year you took my favourite actor, my favourite sports star [etc] -- I just want to tell you that Obama is my favourite president."

This from a church-going Christian woman.

It's sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:20 AM

Well, it's a tautology. All "birthers" are crazy, and ichMael repeatedly shows that he is from another planet.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:55 AM

ichie says (for the four hundred and forty-ninth time, and no-one disagrees with him:

The citizenship qualification has to be adhered to.
(21 Apr 10 - 11:02 PM)

Of course. And it has been.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: MMario
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:26 AM

I haven't heard anyone suggesting Obama is not his mother's son. As she was a citizen of the US; I do believe, that legally he is a NBC, regardless of where he was born unless he has officially REVOKED his claim to citizenshop at some point.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:46 PM

ichMael: If Obama had been a white conservative, raised overseas as was Obama, would it have occured to you to question his citizenship if he so much as stated that he was born in the United States? Yes or no. If you did feel compelled to raise the question, would you still question his citizenship after he produced a birth certificate issued by his state, after several leading authorities from his state attested to examining the original certificate in the state records, and after announcements of his birth were found in the archives of two local newspapers? Yes or no.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 02:50 PM

I am really surprised that none of the Loony Party have taken him to task for being named BHO II. I mean isn't that, like, an aristocrat thing to name people "The Second"? And isn't aristocratic practice anti-American? What was the Revolution about if not to free us from such overbearing condescension???? Yet here is one of them having snuck into the White House!! It's even on his BIRTH CERTIFICATE!! Wake Up, Merka!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:42 PM

Ichmael:

I believe you really could do with some professional assistance to find your center and restore your own heart to whole condition.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:11 PM

from findlaw.com
U.S. Citizenship by Birth or Through Parents
click here

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:26 PM

Gee. A lot of hysterical interest in this. A sore spot. I'll do what I can to address this point by point.

First, I looked back to make sure, and I initially asked about Soetoro/Obama's name. That thread was shut down and my question was moved to this "Crazy Birther" thread. But I didn't ask about his birthplace or birth certificate, I asked about his legal name.

So, the moderator showed bias and disdain in shutting the thread and moving the post.

Then I started a thread about Arizona possibly demanding proof of eligibility for a presidential candidate to be on that state's presidential ballot. That thread was shut down and some of the responses were moved to this "Crazy Birther" thread.

Let me go through the stuff directed at me...abuse, abuse, then someone said, "All the proof needed has already been provided by the state of Hawaii, but those who are crazy will continue to be crazy." Wishful thinking on Hawaii providing proof. They provided a story, not proof. Then TIA gives a link to a Certificate of Live Birth and says to shut the fuck up, not knowing that a COLB has as much weight in court as a roll of toilet paper. Less, in fact...more paper in the roll. Then Alice quotes from a story that says, "Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate." That's fine. So it was verified by the folks in Hawaii. Then he won that state legally. But proof of citizenship was not provided to the rest of the nation. And in light of the COLB that was foisted on the American public when this crisis erupted, one would have to question whether an "original" is really in "a vault" somewhere.

And then we come to Joe Offer's post. Plays a religion card. Some story about Obama = Muslim, and then he sources from the bogus Snopes site. Joe says, "I'm really tired of the lies and the hatred. The opposition has valid points; but they prefer to oppose Obama with lies and innuendo and thinly-veiled bigotry instead of rational discussion. The "birther" thing it the most outrageous example of the thinly-veiled bigotry that has become a trademark of conservatives in the U.S." Pretty pathetic. Gotta try to turn the thing into a racial issue. Obama can't be defended on his outrageously anti-American actions, so his would-be defenders have to go on the offense. So lame, so lame. But then, Joe says, "I think I'll take the 'crazy" out of the thread title. I moved one or two of IchMael's birther threads to here since there already was an ongoing discussion of the subject. But in fairness to IchMael, maybe it would be better to have the thread title not quite so opinionated." Bravo for Joe. He whined about bigotry and then apparently a neuron sent a signal to his conscience and he realized that calling people "crazy" smacks of bigotry. Witness this in awe--an honest act of conscience displayed by a moderator.

Let's see...denial, abuse, denial. Then MMario has an interesting point. "I haven't heard anyone suggesting Obama is not his mother's son. As she was a citizen of the US; I do believe, that legally he is a NBC, regardless of where he was born unless he has officially REVOKED his claim to citizenship at some point." That's why the name thing is so important. Soetoro/Obama may in fact be an Indonesian citizen.   Maybe that's why he's spent a couple million bucks in the past couple of years hiding his records. Who knows? But remember his talk about transparency? Where's the transparency regarding his records?

frogprince: "ichMael: If Obama had been a white conservative, raised overseas as was Obama, would it have occured to you to question his citizenship if he so much as stated that he was born in the United States? Yes or no. If you did feel compelled to raise the question, would you still question his citizenship after he produced a birth certificate issued by his state, after several leading authorities from his state attested to examining the original certificate in the state records, and after announcements of his birth were found in the archives of two local newspapers? Yes or no."

White conservative... Yes, I would question it. I did question it. I can think of only a handful of national politicians more foul than Obama, and John McCain is one of them. I've questioned his citizenship for years. Even on election day, I gave the people at my precinct hell for fouling my ballot with the name of Panama Songbird McCain.

Would I still question his citizenship after Hawaiian "officials" examined what they claimed was his birth certificate? Of course I'd question it. Obama's spent two million to hide evidence. At this point the matter needs serious, open, public investigation. Grand jury, no sealed testimony.

Wind up with goofiness from Amos, then a link from Alice to a law site. Thanks for the link.

Anyway, no one's given any evidence that he ever changed his name back to Barack Obama, and no one's given any evidence that he was born where he claims he was. I don't know why you folks don't pursue this. The man got into the white house without displaying proper I.D.   You have to show I.D. to cash a check.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:40 PM

ichMael said, in part:

"Soetoro/Obama may in fact be an Indonesian citizen.   Maybe that's why he's spent a couple million bucks in the past couple of years hiding his records. Who knows?"

Though that's phrased as mild speculation, more or less written off with a shrug, it includes a straight-out assumption of fact within it: "he's spent a couple million bucks in the past couple of years hiding his records."

And later, he repeats: "Obama's spent two million to hide evidence." On what is that claim of fact based?

What's the claimed factual basis for that assumption?   Frankly, I don't expect there is any. And if no source of factual knowledge is shown, why should anyone believe it enough to give the time of day to the speculation?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:57 PM

ichmael, the only "hysterical interest" in this is coming from you.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:57 PM

So, what, you don't find the II suspicious on his COLB?? You think he managed surreptitiously to be born in Hawaii so he wouldn't have to hand out his birth certificate?

I think you are bouncing off walls, Ich, and you have not provided one fact to disabuse me of that notion. What you have supplied are a bunch of innuendo, unsupported allegations without concrete referent to support them, and a lot of mouthy pretense.

I suggest you take a couple years off from Mudcat and grow up a bit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:08 PM

Yeah, I do find the II on his COLB curious. Custom would dictate he be named Jr., if he's given the same name as his father. The enumeration is reserved for the following generations, beginning with III, right? Schoolmates of his say he used to talk about his daddy being a prince, so maybe there is something to your aristocracy theory. Good find.

And it's incumbent on you, Amos, to provide proof of Obama's name. I've already demonstrated that there's good reason to believe he may still be named Barry Soetoro--can't find any evidence to the contrary. Pleas prove otherwise. And if you want, settle the birth issue, too. The nation would be grateful.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:47 PM

Michael:

Your web pages make it vividly clear to me you are a paranoid loser with so little grasp on real life that you have to run around being brilliantly inarticulate about wild theories of conspiracy and evil-doing where there is none. I suggest you take the example of your fellow pseudo-Texan and retire from public life.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:43 AM

Okay, so this time I will spell it out.
Shut the fuck up.
There is no "evidence" that you will accept is there really?
Be honest douchebag.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:08 PM

Okay, so this time I will spell it out.
Shut the fuck up.
There is no "evidence" that you will accept is there really?
Be honest douchebag.

Ah, yes. The famous Mudcat cordiality. Are you asking me to shut the fuck up about THIS? The evidence I will accept is a birth certificate. Not an internet scan of a falsified COLB, followed by a story of someone who saw the real thing locked away in a vault. YOU try that one the next time they ask you for I.D.

Your web pages make it vividly clear to me you are a paranoid loser with so little grasp on real life that you have to run around being brilliantly inarticulate about wild theories of conspiracy and evil-doing where there is none. I suggest you take the example of your fellow pseudo-Texan and retire from public life.

Well, thanks for the concern, Amos, but it's been my experience that you're not a loser unless you quit. So when I come across a forum where people have quit debating and rely on name-calling to try and drive off unpopular ideas, what am I to think of those folks? I think a stronger case could be made that YOU are the loser, but I'd never try to make that case. I don't think you've quit fighting, I just think you're fighting the wrong opponents. Bush and Obama serve the same masters.

I know it's hard to admit that you've invested a lifetime in backing a fallacy, but I guess that's life's big test, isn't it--how you face up to something like that? Sorry you don't like the way I explain the different little facets of the big deception, but if you think the stuff I put together for this place is rough, you should see what I do to the neo-cons. Democrats aren't destroying the Republican party, it's being done by people like me. We're not at all happy with how the neo-cons have hijacked the "conservative" movement. Burn the party to the ground and start over. And you Democrats need to do the same because the same people own both parties. Obama's working for Goldman Sachs, same as Bush did.

And let's see...oh, my apologies, Uncle DaveO, I missed your post.

I say Obama spent "a couple of million dollars" to hide his documents because of various reports I've read. Here's one from the Canada Free Press, dated yesterday. Excellent article. Obama's been busted on the citizenship thing on SO many fronts now. The only thing keeping him in federal office is the corrupt federal court system:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/22221

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:30 PM

The Canada Free Press is one of the scummier rags of the wing-nut conspiracy-theory axis. Hardly a reliable source of information, which puts in right up icky Michael's alley.

Not quite up to the standards of The National Enquirer.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:43 PM

ichMael said, in part:

I say Obama spent "a couple of million dollars" to hide his documents because of various reports I've read. Here's one from the Canada Free Press, dated yesterday.

(The date of the linked article was April 24, but ichMael's assertion that the "couple million dollars" was "because of various reports I've read" was posted at least a week or so ago. So his assertion can't be based on his linked article, and all it means is that "I've read it somewhere".)

The article's assertions on a number of subjects, including this, seem to be essentially "lots of people know", "Congress is aware", etc. That's not even hearsay; it's a vague claim that somebody knows something, based on nothing concrete. "Congress" includes about six hundred individuals, I believe, some of whom are knowledgeable, some of whom are ignorant, some of whom are brilliant, some of whom are foolish. IchMael doesn't identify EVEN ONE of those Senators or Representatives as "knowing" or "being aware" of the alleged couple million dollars, much less the credibility of such an individual's "knowledge".   

Then there is a purported indirect quote in the article (that's at least closer to factual background) from ONE, count-em-one, Supreme Court Justice, of a claim that it takes TWO US Citizen parents to confer natural born citizenship to their child. But the Supreme Court speaks through its rulings, not through the beliefs (if that attribution is accurate) of one of its members, or even all of its members not speaking in an official ruling in an actual case in controversy.

You may choose to accept a belief on this sort of vague rumor-mongering, ichMael, but that article, at least, does not rise to the dignity of evidence.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:46 PM

Proof that the COLB (which IS a birth certificate for God's sake) is phony?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:54 PM

Your fingers don't seem to be broken, Dave, so why don't you do some searching if this is such a consuming concern? The last figure I read on Obama's outlays was $1.8 million, most of it to the Perkins, Coie Law firm. Court costs arising from the lawyers blocking public access to Obama's birth and school records. Then, as of yesterday, it reached "a couple of million." It was inevitable. And now I can say "he's spent more than two million dollars."

As far as both of Soetoro/Obama's parents being U.S. citizens, his dad was a British citizen. At the time of Soetoro/Obama's birth, Kenya was still British real estate. So only ONE of Obama's parents was an American. Do you want me to do the legwork on that for you, too?

You know the guy's a phony. The federal courts keep shooting down the lawsuits against him because, well...he's a federal employee.

At least the S.O.B. can't go to Arizona now. They require proof of citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:02 PM

By golly, ichMichael is right! I never saw the birth certificates of George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Harry Truman, OR Franklin Roosevelt. Something is seriously not kosher. I am just about positive that it says in the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights and maybe even in the Declaration of Independence that we, the people, have not only the right but the responsibility to see any President's birth certificate. What is wrong with us?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:24 PM

It appears that Hawaii was chosen as Obama's point of entry into the U.S. because of its remote location and slipshod record keeping. This paid off when Howard Dean of the Democratic National Committee (the man responsible for vetting Obama), was able to declare that Obama was legally qualified to run for president...in Hawaii. lol

Dean's going down too, when they prosecute.

Read the article. Look at how dodgy the wording of the certifications sent out to the 50 states is. Hawaii's is worded differently.

I wouldn't want to be Howard Dean right now for all the crack cocaine in the white house wine cellar.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:25 PM

I ask again: proof that the birth cert isn't valid? You know better than the Hawaiian state officials?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:43 PM

Again I point out that the Canada Free Press is nothing but a conspiracy-theory rag.

It's not unlike icky Michael using his own web sites to back up what he says.

I don't think that Aristotle, the first philosopher to codify and formalize logic, would find that quite acceptable.

Dump it back in the septic tank where it belongs, ickyMickey.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:51 PM

Oh, you want me to PROVE, it. Didn't understand the "proof" request.

Let's see...googled hawaiian+colb and looked at the pieces there. Obama's half sister was born in Indonesia and has a Hawaiian Certificate Of Live Birth. Gee, how's that possible? The COLB is supposed to PROVE that Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii.

Googled colb not birth certificateand found more evidence the thing is faked.

Googled Is a colb a birth certificateand got a bunch of stuff, including the article below:

"My name is Chanise Foxx. I work at a office supply store in Kenwood, IL. After nearly 3 years of silence and death threats to me and my family to stay quiet, I am compelled to come forward and tell the world my secret.

"I helped Obama campaign staffer Divorah Adler create a fake birth certificate for use in the famous Fact Check story to prove the world of Obama's birth in the 2008 election. Divorah approached me in early 2007 and held onto the birth certificate until she released it in August 2008.

"As I've been making fake IDs part-time for local college students for about eight years now, faking a birth certificate was actually quite easy. Our first step was to get our hands on someone else's birth certificate from Hawaii. We then created the stationary to match....

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/obama-campaign-employee-admits-making-fake-birth-certificate-colb-should-fbi-interview-and

Hadn't seen that one before. lol. I hope she got paid more for Obama's certificate than she did for a fake I.D.

The whole WORLD knows he was born in Kenya. His family SAW him pop out of the womb in a delivery room in Mombasa. It slays me how some people think it's "racist" to hold this guy accountable. He's a huckster. He's a criminal. He violated the constitution. Screw him.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:59 PM

Clearly the whole WORLD doesn't know. Your sites prove nothing except the existence of whackjobs. Anybody can say "I faked the birth certificate." That doesn't even come close to proof. Your "COLB is not a birth certificate" all partisan sites.

Consider the two noun phrases:

Birth Certificate
Certificate of Birth

Explain how they're not the same thing. Explain how adding "Live" to the second means they're not the same.

Absolutely nothing would convince you he's a natural citizen. Your mind is closed. We have the smoking birth certificate but that's not enough for birthers. Because it's not really the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:02 PM

Well, maybe you're smoking something in the certificates, but that's not the point.

Tell me, how did Obama's half-sister, who was born in Indonesia, obtain a Certificate Of Live Birth from the state of Hawaii?

I'll sign off now so I don't have to watch the neural meltdown.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:45 PM

Hardly a meltodown. Your proof that she was born in Indonesia is
probably about as convincing as your proof that he was born in Africa.

The problem is that all of the "proof" is really after the fact. Some people decided that Obama wasn't a real American, and then other people stepped up to "prove" it. When disproof was provided, the goalposts were shifted. From "he won't show us his birth certificate" it became "that's not a real birth certificate." At this point they won't accept ANYTHING as a real certificate; the game is really over. There is absolutely no evidence that will convince a birther that Obama is a natural citizen. It's not a matter of proof and facts any more; it's unshakeable faith.

There is an odd phenomenon where people who believe very strongly in something, when it is disproven, rather than ceasing to believe it, redefine what it was they believe. The classic case is the Jehovah's Witnesses and their various dates for Christ returning. Finally, well he didn't return to earth but something happened in heaven and that's what the prophecy was [i]really[/i] referring to. There are myriad others. I think it was Lord Acton who said, "A man who has bought a theory will fight a vigorous rearguard action against the facts." You can throw facts at a birther all day. They just bounce off.

I notice, by the way, that you didn't answer my question.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 01:32 AM

"...all the crack cocaine in the white house wine cellar..."

You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you.

the only thing in your favor is your age. There is a chance that you will grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:32 PM

The fact that Obama's--and his sister's--mother was an American citizen (born in Kansas), makes both of them American citizens. No matter where in the world they were born.

Or is icky Mickey trying to claim that their mother was born on Mars?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 04:36 PM

I suspect in this case it is better off being easted than being accepted as operational somewhere.

There's a village in Texas begging for i6ts idiot back. Dang new fangled internet, anyway, goes and changes EV'YTHANG!



A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 05:33 PM

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

Always assuming Itchy has one in the first instance, wch, in light of his posting history, is open to debate..

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 06:40 PM

I am fascinated by the probably barking little Foxx (why is it that only nutters start by waying "my name is...? - it's as much of a giveaway as green ink and a broad-nbbed fountain pen) allegedly creating "stationary".

It gives a whole new slant to Newtonian mechanics.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 07:04 PM

I think too many of us (myself included) have been been wasting our indignation and disdain on ichy.

I've personally come to the conclusion that ichy doesn't even believe the sensational stuff he posts. He's industriously, consciously, and willfully engaged in spreading false rumors, on the throw-the-mud-on-the wall-and-some-of-it-will-stick principle. (The word "mud" there being a euphemism, of course.)

If that is the fact (and I think it is), we're not only wasting our breath but we're playing his game by trying to apply reason to his utterances. I'm done doing that. Others may disagree.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 07:53 PM

Michael:

It's not that we are trying to fend off unpopular ideas. Just unsubstantiated, illogical, hysterical or paranoid ideas with a minimal probability of having much substance behind them.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 08:17 PM

t's not that we are trying to fend off unpopular ideas. Just unsubstantiated, illogical, hysterical or paranoid ideas with a minimal probability of having much substance behind them.

DougR take note.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 08:25 PM

Okay, go down the list since last time...

Mousethief shoots himself in all three feet yet again. Maya Soetoro. Look it up on wikipedia. Born in Indonesia. Then: The problem is that all of the "proof" is really after the fact. Well, duh. We're not talking about pre-crime here. The proof against Nixon came after the fact. Meltdown, as predicted. Still saying I haven't answered his questions, and I couldn't tell anyone what the question is if my life depended on it. Let me unstick my feet from this puddle and move on.

Ebbie: "...all the crack cocaine in the white house wine cellar..." You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you. the only thing in your favor is your age. There is a chance that you will grow up. Hey, I didn't make Barry Soetoro/Obama have crack-fueled homosex in a limo with Larry Sinclair.   Read all about it on the internet. But in fairness, G.W. Bush had his own proclivities in that direction. Victor Ashe. I think they went through the sex-in-the-coffin initiation at Yale, and they've been kind of joined at the hip, so to speak, ever since.

Then a bunch of generalized farking. A mudcat specialty. Bark + fart. Can't tell which end the noise is coming from.

I don't really care where Obama was born. A moderator moved my question about Obama's name to this thread. I just don't want to have to undo illegally signed legislation in the future. If the guy's name is Soetoro, then that's how he needs to sign bills.

This other stuff--about the birth certificate--has never really interested me before now, but I must say that the farkers at mudcat have made me a convert. The telling thing about the situation is Obama's spending so much money to hide his records. He's a lawyer, he knows about the "appearance of impropriety." That's a big part of determining guilt--how did the accused behave? And he's failed that test. I was more of a "namer," but now I guess I'm a bona fide "birther." Nothing short of public display of his actual birth certificate will answer the questions now.

Oh, and the lady at Kinko's or wherever that was--take a lesson from her. She named names to the best of her ability and might have saved her life in the process. Clinton, the Bushes...you all know the stories about the deaths of those around them. The smartest thing a person with dangerous knowledge about such people can do is go public. No need to kill the whistleblower once they've blown the whistle.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:28 PM

Well, if he's frothing at the mouth here on Mudcat, at least it keeps him off the streets.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:28 PM

This IS a fascinating topic. Working on an anti-neocon page tonight, but you folks got me sidetracked. Looks like the birth certificate thing is heating up.

Ex-governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich is on trial. He wouldn't let Obama name his own successor to the U.S. Senate seat he was vacating as he moved to the white house, so he was forced out of the governorship on "ethics" charges. Now he's on trial, and he's asked that Obama be called as a witness. There's a good chance the judge will allow it, because Obama's testimony is crucial. Once on the stand, Obama would have to answer questions to establish his identity--name, place of birth, and so on. Oh, boy. This could be good. Lots of pages you can google up on this.

And then there's Rev. James David Manning. His site says this:

"Hon. James David Manning says Barack Hussein "The Long Legged Mack Daddy" Obama was a C.I.A operative who used Columbia University as a cover to go to Pakistan in 1981 when the CIA and the Mujahideen worked together against the Soviet Invasion. Obama supplied arms, logistics, and money using his Muslim background."

Manning is saying that Obama spent his Columbia years hustling arms, working for the CIA. Says he's going to hold an internet trial in May, present proof. Love it. This would explain why Obama applied for a scholarship as a foreign student--part of his CIA cover. If what Manning says is true, then I'd have to give Obama more credit than I have been for intelligence. Spy work would require some smarts. It would also explain why world leaders sneer at him--they know that he's just another CIA soldier. Look at the clip at the link below for details:

http://atlah.org/atlahworldwide/?p=6142

And then there's the upcoming march on Washington. Could be a million people surrounding the white house, holding up their birth certificates:

OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE / ELIGIBILITY / OBAMACARE
MARCH ON WASHINGTON

At the Ellipse – President's Park South
17th St & Constitution Ave, NW

DATE:    SATURDAY, MAY 29, 2010
TIME:    12:00 NOON – 4:00 P.M.

BARACK OBAMA IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO SERVE AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
DUE TO THE FOLLOWING:

http://obamacrimes.com/

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:37 PM

I have one birth certificate that has my footprints on it. And another one I got at the time I was adopted. What about y'all?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:42 PM

Michael, go find a safe, quiet place and enjoy the scenery in peace and safety for a few weeks.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 11:37 PM

Found a site with a written transcription of the Manning video:

http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2010/03/obama_and_columbia_university.html

Some excerpts:

Obama was recruited in 1980 by the CIA while a student at Occidental College in Los Angeles, California. The CIA needed Muslims who were fluent in Farsi and other Islamic customs and understandings....

He excelled at Harvard, became the Editor of the Law Review. Where upon his graduation he could have become a Supreme Court clerk or a multi-million dollar salary would have been offered to him at America's best law firms, except for one thing...he did not have a legitimate background as a US Citizen or as a student from Occidental or Columbia. A diligent investigation by a personnel agency of a major law firm would have revealed he was not a US citizen. And how could a "C" student go from Occidental College to America's fifth most difficult school to enter, into Columbia University, and then from there three years later enter into the world's most difficult lawschool, Harvard?...

So what does a former CIA operative do when they cannot pass a personnel test? Obama becomes a "Community Organizer" on the South side of Chicago, where no background check is needed. His marriage to Michelle Robinson, a lawyer and connected Chicago politician, although a convenient marriage, now gives him citizenship and the beginning of a solid background. He takes a job at the same law firm where Michelle becomes his trainer and supervisor, a law firm that is heavily influenced by small time criminal, Tony Rezko. Michelle Robinson controls the personnel records, and his hiring takes place without a hitch....

And so on. There's another video on the page too, about witnesses Manning plans to call.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 11:46 PM

Those two alleged daughters they have in tow are really dwarf operatives.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 11:49 PM

It must be true. I found it on the Internet.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 01:17 AM

I think this will make everything clear:

"Wibble wibble."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 12:39 AM

A brand new, in-depth investigation into the background of Barack Obama may spell big trouble ahead regarding the issue of Presidential eligibility.

The investigation was conducted by Northeast Intelligence Network--a team of experienced, professional private investigators whose services have been utilized by Fortune-500 companies. The director, Douglas J. Hagmann, is a 23-year veteran in high-level investigations and is a member of the International Counter-Terrorism Officers Association.

Hagmann's investigation into the background and Constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama to serve as President of the United States is extensive and thorough. His conclusions are stunning.

http://www.examiner.com/x-37620-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d28-New-investigation-into-Obama-background-spells-trouble-ahead

Dozens of court cases concerning Obama's eligibility have been denied by the federal courts, so from May 14 to May 19, 2010, Rev. James David Manning, of Harlem, will conduct a Sedition and Treason Trial of Barack (Barry Soetoro) Dunham? Hussein Obama II / Jr..

T-minus fifteen days.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 01:06 AM

I believe you believe this shit.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 01:36 AM

All hard-charging conspiracy theorists are pathological.

It starts with low self-esteem, then, when they embracing some off-the-wall idea, they can feel superior to everyone else because "they know what's really going on," but nobody else does.

"All those stupid people out there! They don't believe me. But I know!"

They build up an elaborate framework of disconnected bits out of which they draw significances that aren't really there to support their idea. And despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they hang onto their Rube Goldberg belief like grim death.

Their ego depends on it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 01:50 AM

P.S. a sitting president cannot be tried in court, only in Congress, after a successful impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 11:07 PM

T-Minus 14 days and counting.

Rev. Manning will address the following in the trial for Treason and Sedition of Barry Soetoro, AKA Barack Obama (May 14-19):

* Obama was recruited in 1980 by the CIA while a student at Occidental College in Los Angeles, California.

* The CIA then later enlisted Columbia University to extend its foreign student program to Barack Hussein Obama that he might enroll in the universities around Karachi and in Pakistan, and also the Patrice Lamumba school in Moscow.

* Obama became the lead agent in the arms and money supply to the struggling Taliban army against the Soviet war machine. (That's nice. He was a gunrunner for Osama bin Laden)

* How could a "C" student go from Occidental College to America's fifth most difficult school to enter, into Columbia University, and then from there three years later enter into the world's most difficult lawschool, Harvard?

* So what does a former CIA operative do when they cannot pass a personnel background check? Obama becomes a "Community Organizer" on the South side of Chicago, where no background check is needed.

* When 400 people who were on the Columbia campus during the Obama years of 1980 to 1984--students, nurses, librarians, custodians, shopkeepers, people in the environment, in their investigation--not one of the 400 could remember the personable and outgoing Obama.

Action will most likely be needed to divert attention from the trial, so expect your orders to attack the Tea Party soon, comrades. Perhaps as early as tomorrow, May Day, international day of the proletariat. CIA commissar Obama will issue your orders as soon as he receives them from the People's Bank of Goldman Sachs.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 01 May 10 - 12:30 AM

Where in the hell did Obama learn Farsi? Farsi is spoken in Iran and Afghanistan. It is NOT spoken in most Muslim countries, certainly not Kenya or Indonesia. I probably speak more Farsi than president Obama. I know two words. One of them is pronounce ann, and it is an excellent word to describe birthers' opinions, a load of bull ann!
What did Barack Obama use to identify himself when he applied for his first driver's license? His first passport? Don't tell me Howard Dean, who would have been practicing medicine in Vermont then, provided him with a fake, or that somebody at Kinkos made him a phony certificate.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 01 May 10 - 12:32 AM

A birther in the court
A birther in the court
Hine-hone the fruitcake zone
A birther in the court.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 10 - 12:36 AM

Michael:

Either due to extreme youth or brain damage or bad genes, you have not yet developed the ability to tell the difference between data, opinion, and rampant bullshit. Knock off this stupid histrionic bullshit.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 10 - 02:02 AM

Too many Robert Ludlum novels.

They're fiction, Michael. Fiction.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 10 - 06:08 PM

It's a fairly slow day here at the Skunk Works, so just for the helluvit, I did a little google-surfing. The truth is out there, but there is also more bullshit to be found than can possibly be produced by all the combined feed-lots on the inner planets of a dozen solar systems. Among other things, one must consider the veracity of the sources and examine the motivations behind the purveyors of all these web sites.

The name on my birth certificate reads "Donald Richard Firth." When I was a wee sprat, my parents, sisters, and playmates usually called me "Donnie." At about the age of twelve or thirteen, I insisted that the "Donnie" diminutive be dropped and that I be called "Don."

In one of my geometry classes at Roosevelt High School, I had a weak-eyed teacher who was slightly dyslexic, and after checking the class roster and mis-reading my last name (Firth, a Scottish place name inherited from my great-grandfather who came to the Pacific Northwest in 1851 with the Hudson's Bay Company), he would address me as "Mr. Faith." Never did get it right.

I often sign my name "Donald R. Firth," not spelling out my middle name. On one occasion, however, I was working full-time as an annoucer at one radio station, where I used the name "Don Firth." For two weeks, if filled in for an annoucer friend of mine who worked at another station while he took a vacation. It would not go down well at my full-time job for me to be working at another station as well, so—my father's name was Robert, so with that, and my middle name, I adopted the pseudonym "Dick Robertson" when I filled in for my friend.

So—at different times during my life, I've gone variously by Donnie Don Donald R. Dick Richard Robertson Faith Firth.

WHO AM I REALLY!??

I am not particularly undone by the idea that Barack Obama might have prefered being called "Barry" (as short for "Barack") or taking his new stepfather's name(s) when his mother remarried and later decided to resume using the name he had been given originally.

Theodore Roosevelt was often called "Teddy" (he even had a stuffed animal named after him) and Ronald Reagan was often called "Ronnie." William Jefferson Clinton? "Bill." George W. Bush was frequently called—    Well, maybe we'd better not go there!

I do not really believe that "ichMael" is the name that appears on the OPer's birth certificate. More than likely, his given name is "Michael," since he's using what is obviously an anagram of "Michael." I believe he might be trying to allude to Ishmael, son of Abraham and Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar. Ishmael became an outcast when Sarah bore Isaac, whose descendants became the Israelites. Ishmael is said to have wandered off to become a prophet on his own hook, some say founding the precursors of Islam, and later on, went on to tell of his ill-fated whaling venture with Captain Ahab. I think ichMael probably enjoys thinking of himself as a prophetic outcast. It fits the psychological profile of all conspiracy theory buffs.

Anyway, I don't really give a rat's ass what Barry Barack Soetoro Dunham Hussein Obama Bill Brewer Jan Stewer Peter Gurney Peter Davey Dan'l Whiddon Harry Hawk old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all chooses to call himself.

####

So—just who is this James David Manning?

The "Reverend" James David Manning first came to public attention in the 2008 presidential election after ATLAH (an organization cobble together by Manning for the purpose of running all whites out of Harlem and returning it God's chosen people, blacks. (Sound a litle racist, perhaps?) He posted several "sermons" on YouTube, harshly critical of Democratic candidate Barack Obama. Among other accusations, he calls Obama a "good House Negro," and in another, he refers to him as "trash" because of his mixed race (!). He accuses Obama of "pimping white women," and calls him an "emissary of the devil." He claims that Obama "has the cadence of an Islamic person", and called Obama's mother "trash" for becoming pregnant by a black man "out of wedlock."

By the way, the "Reverend" James David Manning is himself African-American.

According to Manning, "It is common knowledge that African men, coming from the continent of Africa—especially for the first time—do diligently seek out white women to have sexual intercourse with. Generally the most noble of white society choose not to intercourse sexually with these men. So it's usually the trashier ones who make their determinations that they're going to have sex."

Manning defended his "sermons" in an interview on Fox News, saying that "we also have to talk about his character." He compared Oprah Winfrey, who supported Obama's campaign, with "The Whore of Babylon," and the Antichrist.

The sermons drew the attention of the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service objecting to alleged violations of laws granting tax-free status to churches on condition that they refrain from certain forms of political activity.

Manning continued his criticisms of Obama after the election, producing a video in summer 2009 that predicts that there will be a white backlash against Obama, complete with riots. He also attended many of the first "birther" events. In an interview with an Israeli radio station, Manning asserted that Obama had chosen to befriend Muslims instead of Jews.

On May 14–19, 2010 he plans to hold treason trials regarding Obama, claiming to prove that he was a CIA agent during the early 1980s when he was a student at Columbia University, and that his Muslim and Marxist views combined with his classified CIA knowledge are allowing him to hold the United States hostage while he works to undermine it out of hatred for it.

Jus' curious:    Just where is he planning to hold these treason trials anyway?

Manning? I think what we have here is a Chihuahua yapping at a lion.

(aka) Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 01 May 10 - 06:14 PM

Yes, and who really was this guy who called himself Mark Twain? I mean, really?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 02 May 10 - 10:39 PM

Phillip J. Berg brought suit against soetoro/Obama on the citizenship issue and was denied due to "Lack of standing." You have to be an injured party to file suit.

Berg is an American, a voter and a Democrat, yet the court said that a man who's possibly from Kenya serving as president in violation of the U.S. constitution does no damage to Berg.

The courts have rejected dozens of cases with this excuse.

Now there will be public airing of the facts.

How DID a C student get into Columbia, anyway?

12 days and counting.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 02 May 10 - 11:00 PM

Michael,

I am sorry, but you are simply full of melodramatic horse manure.

Peace, dude.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 10 - 02:41 AM

Well, Michael, if this great trial of Manning's actually comes off, in what court in which jurisdiction is it going to be held? In Manning's root-cellar?

Considering that the world will be destroyed on December 21, 2012 when

1)    the sun goes supernova,
2)    the earth flips over and the poles change places,
3)    the solar system passes through the galactic equator, which will also cause the poles to swap places (Hey, doesn't that mean we'll be right back where we started?)
4)    an ionically charged asteroid will pass close to the earth and set the atmosphere on fire,
5)    another planet-size asteroid will strike the earth, shattering it to fragments,
6)    a black hole will pass through the solar system and suck in all the planets,
7)    another gigantic black hole in the center of the galaxy will suck the entire galaxy into it,
8)    Sarah Palin will have been elected the first woman president,
                AND
9)    Mickey Mouse will finally reveal that he's gay.

So—I really wouldn't sweat the small stuff.

How do I know all this is going to happen!???

I read it on the internet.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 May 10 - 05:00 AM

Do Americans have a screw loose? It looks like sour grapes from a republican who cant get over the fact that the voters told their party to piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:55 AM

Looks like SPB-Cooperator finally summed it all up.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:24 AM

That's about the size of it. Political discourse has deteriorated in this country. The Republican Party no longer has any concept of "loyal opposition" -- it has been replaced with "throwing my toys out of the pram."

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 10 - 03:00 PM

You would really have to look long and hard to find someone more conservative than William F. Buckley. But Buckley was an intellectual with a philosophical bent, and although I rarely agreed with anything he said, he presented his arguments in a calm and reasoned manner and was willing to discuss his ideas quietly and reasonably. I can actually say that I did learn a few things from Buckley.

But who are the spokespersons for the conservative position these days?

Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 03 May 10 - 04:59 PM

Partly, Don, I beleive this can be blamed on media desperation. Technology has given the media channels huge empty spaces to fill with news, when there is not that much news worth presenting; to make these long hours electrifying the media corporations have migrated away from informing and toward electrifying and dramatizing. Although this is shortsighted you can see how the competition and huge amount of program time needing filling have fueld the deterioration from "forum" to "circus". He who dramatizes best gets the eyeballs.

Informed by melodrama instead of communication, American voters of less discrimination learn that dramatization is the nature of the citizen voice, and they go forth and act out like ten year olds in the public arena, mindless of any more disciplined kind of self-government.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 03 May 10 - 05:26 PM

There are no conservatives left -- only neoconservatives, which are not the same thing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:32 PM

(Apr. 3, 2010) — While giving a speech on AIDS and health care to a delegation of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender (GLBT) Democrats, Michelle Obama described Kenya as Obama's "home country."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2486390/posts

Obama the usurper. 11 days 'til trial time.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:33 PM

gasp! And Obama made the same remark at the Correspondents' dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:35 PM

I might add that I was born in North Dakota but North Dakota ain't my "home country"- my home country is Oregon where I spent my early years.

Do you get my point?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:29 AM

My dear mother was named Mary for her father's mother and Ann for her mother's mother. For most of her life she signed her name Marianne, because she didn't like being called Mary, and the French spelling looked more elegant. There was never any trouble over that name change, any more than there was trouble over my father's mother altering her name from Jane to Jean. (Both sides of my family name girls after their grandmothers. My sister avoided it simply because mom's mother was named Bessie Irene, and one of those was enough.)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 04 May 10 - 01:13 AM

I thought he was born in Indonesia? Hell, I think I need a new foil hat.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:57 PM

I believe that John F. Kennedy, when delivering a speech to the German people during the time of the Berlin blockade, said, "Ich bin ein Berliner."

I do not think he intended it to be interpreted as "I am not an American citizen and, therefore, am not legally qualified to be President of the United States because I am actually German. I was born in the city of Berlin."

That isn't quite what he said, nor is it what he meant. Nor, for that matter, was it a slip of the tongue.

Some folks, with a predisposed and dearly held set of beliefs, in order to support those beliefs, will pounce on any insignificant little snippet like a rabid pit-bull on a pork chop.

Delusional, really. What circumscribed and mean-spirited little lives they lead!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 May 10 - 05:25 PM

I believe that John F. Kennedy, when delivering a speech to the German people during the time of the Berlin blockade, said, "Ich bin ein Berliner."

I do not think he intended it to be interpreted as "I am not an American citizen and, therefore, am not legally qualified to be President of the United States because I am actually German. I was born in the city of Berlin."

Of course he didn't mean that. What he meant was exactly what he said: "I am a jelly doughnut."

Obviously, a jelly doughnut is not qualified to be President of the United States!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 10 - 06:45 PM

And all this time, I thought that was exactly what he meant!

(sheesh!)

Don Firth

P. S. I wonder what icky Mickey will do with that!??

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 10 - 07:47 PM

"Obviously, a jelly doughnut is not qualified to be President of the United States!"

Why not? A turkey held the office from 2000-2008....

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 04 May 10 - 08:17 PM

I think, Michael that your count-down will lead to naught.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 04 May 10 - 10:51 PM

You HOPE it leads to naught.

The federal court system refuses to hear the Obama citizenship cases. The military cases--how can a man who hasn't proven his eligibility to be commander in chief deploy soldiers? Why deny a case like that? All the commander has to do is show his birth certificate.

He's hiding something.

Manning's trial can't hurt. Might even do some good.

We'll see in 10 days now.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 04 May 10 - 10:55 PM

The whole issue, Michael, is a bundle of bullshit and hot air, and the REAL question is what motivates it.

To my mind it is a focus of hatred and suspicion bordering on derangement.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 04 May 10 - 11:02 PM

No. It's simply a constitutional issue.

You have to abide by ALL the provisions of the constitution. If they can set this glaring precedent (have a non-citizen serve as president), then what's to stop the scrapping of the rest of the document?

True, the constitution's been eroded, but we have to fight it every step of the way. I screamed when Panama McCain was on his way to the nomination, and that was before Obama came along. Has nothing to do with racism or any of that. You folks need to quit falling for that.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 04 May 10 - 11:11 PM

There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. -- Major General Smedley Butler USMC

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 10 - 11:48 PM

Michael, you and a few other demented malcontents refuse to accept the more than adequate documentation proving that Obama was, indeed, born in Hawaii, nevertheless, it's there, whether you accept it or not.

This "trial" that Manning intends to conduct that you put so much store by will mean nothing, and will have no more significance than a mouse-fart in a hurricane.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:00 AM

I'm listening to an interview with Manning right now, live.

http://www.renseradio.com/listenlive.htm

He's got the goods. The trial will be held in his church in Harlem. He says Obama won't last out his term. And that's why his foreign citizenship has to be exposed. His signature on laws can't be allowed to stand. His genocidal DeathCare, warefare, banking giveaways that saddle future Americans with debt. His fraud needs to be exposed.

Damn. Interview ending. Manning says the trial won't be streamed live. He wants people to come to New York, boots on the ground to give crowd presence.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:28 AM

If you google "Manning birther" you get some interesting results.

This one is worth a read, at "Oh, For Goodness Sake" (ha!).
It is about Manning and his so called trial. By the way, Rev Manning's PhD is a degree he bestowed upon himself.

they claim he was in Al Qaeda before it existed

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:36 AM

His trial will be held in his church? Um, real trials are held in courtrooms. And not in religious settings. And you claim to be a champion of RIGHTS? What power does he have to enforce the findings of this mock kangaroo star chamber? The REAL courts refuse to hear the case because Obama has already proven his place of birth and therefore it's a frivolous case. But if you put your fingers in your ears and scream really loudly, you might make your neighbors mad.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 10 - 04:01 AM

The may I'm reading from UK.

A bunch of nutters want your presidemt to prove he is American, but then they argue that what ever documentation is provided cannot be proof.....

Hm how are you guys going to deal with the fact that therefore every president you ever had had no right to serve, therefore, every decision ever made in America cannot stand....

Does that mean that all 200 Million citizens of US cannot prove they were born in US and therefore noone has the right to vote???

Also, can the nutters prove there citizenship/nationality by the same arguement??????????

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 10 - 10:10 AM

IT would be constitutional if it weren't world-class bullshit, Michael, but it IS bullshit. Get over it, get a life of some kind.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 06 May 10 - 12:25 AM

SPB-Cooperator --

The problem with Obama began when his grandmother said she saw him born in Kenya. Other family members backed up her claim. That's a problem, because according to our constitution he is ineligible to serve as President if he was born in Kenya.

The people who were responsible for checking his citizenship were politicians from his own party, so when the issue was raised in the media, those politicians flashed a piece of paper over the internet as proof. That was it. Now they say the issue is "resolved" and closed.

But he still hasn't provided proof of citizenship. And he's spent over two million dollars on lawyers to hide all records from his early life which might shed light on his place of birth and citizenship.

That's the problem we're faced with.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 10 - 12:34 AM

To avoid a moving goalpost and shifting arguments, how about ichMichael states right now exactly what (realistic) evidence he needs to see to prove that Obama is legally POTUS.
Please be specific and realistic.
And when what you request is produced, we will se how sincere you are.
K?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 06 May 10 - 01:03 AM

Hmm, somebody said his grandmother said, versus the officials of the State of Hawaii. This is even a question?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 10 - 04:06 PM

A little glitch in your knowledge of the law, Michael:    since Obama's mother was an American citizen—born in Kansas—that makes Obama an American citizen no matter where he was born.

Get your facts straight.

No, forget it! I know that's asking far too much from you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 06 May 10 - 05:05 PM

If you would behold a Granfaloon
Remove the skin from a toy balloon....


Michael, your absolute inability to evaluate information is going to leave you energetically spinning in a posthole alongside the road of life.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: John P
Date: 06 May 10 - 05:28 PM

The sky is red! The sky is red! Why won't you prove to me that it's not red, Michael? C'mon, show me your proof that the sky isn't red. Or are you a part of the giant conspiracy that's trying to make people believe the sky is blue?

Where's your proof? Where's your proof? The sky is red!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 May 10 - 10:58 PM

Ok, my onetime Canadian housemate was married to an American woman, for a while, and they had a son. That son was an American, because his mom was an American. John McCain was born in Panama. Any number of American diplomats and service members have children ovreseas every year. Those children are considered U.S. citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:00 PM

Don't be foolish, John P. Only people who disagree with ItchMyEL have to disprove his claims. He doesn't have to disprove theirs. Don't you got no schoolin'?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:10 AM

I would really like to get at the truth on the following issues.
Perhaps someone could construct webpages summarizing the evidence:

The Royals killed Di because she was carrying Obama's baby

Obama was Jack the Ripper

Obama killed Marilyn Monroe

Paul McCartney died in a car crash decades ago (Obama was the other driver)

That eye over the pyramid on the $1 bill… yup, it's Obama's

Have you ever noticed that the face on Mars looks just like…

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:49 PM

Yes and

Who put the bomp in the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?

Who put the ram in the Rama-Lama-Ding-Dong?

Who was that man?

I bet it was Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:53 PM

They say Barry Mann recorded those lyrics, but I
see the truth now! Barry... as in Barack and Mann as in you da man.
He is the answer to all those troubling questions!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 09 May 10 - 02:02 PM

Well done, Alice!

I always thought it was Barry Wom but your logic wins out.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:02 PM

(Apr. 27, 2010) -- ...Dr. Manning reports that he has documented evidence that Barack Hussein Obama II is not a "natural born Citizen" as required by the U.S. Constitution to be President of the United States, and that Obama also did not attend Columbia University from 1981-83 as Obama has claimed.

MRS. RONDEAU: Do you have any other key witnesses coming?

DR. MANNING: ...I have subpoenaed George Stephanopoulos, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Condolezza Rice....   

MRS. RONDEAU: Is there a penalty if anyone does not honor your subpoena?

DR. MANNING: The Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives us the absolute, mandated right to call for a trial with a jury of we the people sanctioned by the Constitution if we discover that the courts or government officials are not executing their duties and allowing the people due process. Thusly, the Constitution empowers our courts. We, at times, will present evidence that crimes have taken place. At that point, it becomes the responsibility of the officials to arrest those who have been charged with crimes in a public and duly-authorized hearing or court. We will point out that crimes did take place. If the court is duly authorized, then the contempt of that court is also an infraction, and you can be arrested for that as well. So anyone who does not show up can be in contempt of a duly-authorized, Tenth Amendment, constitutionally-mandated court. That's the best way to answer that.

MRS. RONDEAU: Do you have a mechanism to enforce it?

DR. MANNING: We will present the information to the local officials.

http://www.rense.com/general90/proof.htm

Five days and counting. Will Zbig be arrested? Will Condi spill the beans? Stay tuned.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:28 PM

"Dr." Manning is delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:51 PM

He's not the only one. Ich, don't you realize that the illustrious 'doctor' is doing the equivalent of backyard pretending? Since when does a "private" trial carry weight? High schools do it- but they are not under the misapprehension that their 'findings' have any legal status at all.

It appears to me that the 'doctor' (sorry, I can't take him seriously) is below average not only in legal knowledge but in mind power.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 May 10 - 11:12 PM

Crash course.

Clinton repealed FDR's Glass-Steagall Act, which kept predatory bankers off of Wall Street. Since then, America's been taken over by foreign banks. Both Republican and Democratic politicians have been paid off to let this happen. The courts have been bought off. Clinton, Bush and Obama work for the predatory banks. The feds will not hold the govt or the banks accountable. It's gotten so outrageous, that people don't even have to qualify for office now. The only qualification needed is that you promise to serve the banks.

But to place a Kenyan (or is he Indonesian) in the white house? That's going a bit far. So Manning is calling a trial. We all have the right to do that. We don't have to sit on our hands and wait for a judge to call a trial, WE can. That's what Manning is doing.

A jury will be seated, evidence will be presented. Manning says that during his Occidental/Columbia years, Obama was running guns to the Taliban (bin Laden). He seems satisfied that he has the proof. And no matter WHERE that proof is presented, once it IS presented, the authorities have to look into it.

Manning's trial idea is sheer genius.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:07 AM

Oh. My. Dear. God.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:59 AM

At 19, Ichmael, you should be smart enough to see through this. At age 20 you are practicing for age 40; at age 40 you will practice for age 80. It may seem to you that you have a long time but you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:32 AM

According to my new understanding of the US legal system, I think we could convene a private trial to judge the mental competence of persons who should perhaps be institutionalized.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:49 PM

Don't worry, matron will be along later to give you your pills.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:59 PM

How many times was the earth supposed to have come to an end and the appointed date rolled by uneventfully?

The doomsayers remain undaunted. They just set a new date.

Ho hum. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:48 PM

Michael:

Barack Obama is an American.

He has been an American all his days.

He represents the nation, and legally and soberly serves it as Commander in Chief as well as chief executive.

He is a sterling representative of what an individual American can become with effort and intelligence: well-educated, well-balanced, literate, insightful, thoughtful, active, and striving to better the nation and the world.

If you ever do grow up, you would do well to emulate Mister Obama. Perhaps you should accelerate the process by joining the Navy.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 10 - 01:32 AM

Amos you're losing your grip. Get your meds checked, man. Do you really think you can argue sense into ickymike?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 14 May 10 - 12:36 AM

Tomorrow. Mark it on your calendars. Red letter day:

Starting Friday and for a full week, the Atlah World Missionary Church will hold in essence a citizen's court in what it bills as "the greatest trial in American history."

The trial, which will include legal scholars and retired court officers, will examine several issues, including Obama's birth place, his citizenship status, his academic credentials and alleged ties to the Central Intelligence Agency as a student....

Besides Obama's actual birth documentation, the still-concealed documentation for him includes kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records....

The "certification of live birth" posted online and widely touted as "Obama's birth certificate" does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same "short-form" document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true "long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny....

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=153145

And then there's this:

...investigators linked with Manning discovered that Obama never attended Columbia University as Obama claims. According to investigators, during the time when Russia was engaging Afghanistan in war during the '70s and '80s, Obama was recruited by the CIA to help the Afghanis obtain weapons because he has the muslim look and speaks the Arabic language and fit right in with CIA plans....

The Manning team also found out that Obama was not a law professor at the University of Chicago as he stated. Manning also said that there is evidence that shows both Barack Obama and Michelle Obama had their law licenses revoked and all this evidence will be given at the trial.

http://www.examiner.com/x-47432-Baton-Rouge-Republican-Examiner~y2010m5d8-Trial-by-citizen-and-keeping-the-government-accountable

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 14 May 10 - 01:00 AM

O RLY?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 14 May 10 - 01:44 AM

Is this even bigger than Hale-Bopp?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 May 10 - 09:28 PM

Michael,

Clicky

Says it all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:47 PM

I, for one, have been holding my breath.
Ichy, can we get some kind of statement from you about what your opinion/approach will be if this whole thing is a monstrous, overblown, un-noticed flop?
Naaah. I didn't think so.
Yawn.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:01 AM

He'll just shrug it off and come up with something else equally ridiculous.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:26 AM

I'm curious about how ichMael hooked up with Mannning's church in Harlem. Unless you live in Harlem or keep an eye on kooky cults, you would not easily hear about Rev. Manning and his so called "church". Now that Manning has hooked up with birthers, he has gained more notoriety than just his previous campaign to ruin businesses in Harlem (his plan was to stop gentrification by urging people to boycott Harlem stores and banks). Manning is a typical cult leader - delusional and narcissistic.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 May 10 - 08:54 AM

refresh.

Well????????

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 27 May 10 - 01:53 PM

I like the coinage a poster on Balloon-Juice blog used:

The John Birth Society

Encapsulates it all in one, doesn't it?

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 27 May 10 - 09:43 PM

That about sums it up.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 27 May 10 - 10:47 PM

Seems to me none of these dire predictions and dramatic revelations made it to Reality land, Ichy.   Whatchoo tink of dot, mon?


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:54 AM

Have they really got nothing better to do - it's pathetic, typically loony USA!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 01:13 PM

What is "natural born" meant to mean anyway?

There seems to be a w2i8despread assumption it'ssomnething to do with being born on the territory of the United States, but it can't mean that, since it's quite possible for someone not actually born on the territory of the United States to be eligible to become president.(For example John McCain, who was born in Panama).

In normal language "natural born" just means it wasn't a Caesarian birth, but presumably that's not what the term means in the US Constitution. So what does it mean?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 10 - 03:53 PM

"Natural born" in the U. S. Constitution refers to having been born in the United States, in a United States territory, or being the offspring of a parent who is a United States citizen. One of a number of exceptions would include the child of an ambassador from a foreign country who is born while the ambassador (if the ambassador IS the mother or the wife of the ambassador) is a resident of the U. S. at the time of the birth. Children born in a foreign country, but born of a U. S. qualifies as a "natural-born citizen." And there are a number of other stipulations.

Incidentally, if the other stipulations are met, it makes no difference if the baby is born "naturally" (vaginal birth) or by Caesarian section.

The circumstances of Barack Obama's birth have been the subject of a number of court trials--in official, established courts of law—and it has been solidly established on several occasions that he was born in the city of Honolulu, on the island of Oahu, in the state of Hawaii (which had received statehood two years before), on August 4th, 1961 of a Kenyan-born father and a U. S. born mother (State of Kansas, dead center of the United States).

According to the Constitution of the United States, this solidly establishes Obama as a citizen of the United States.

The questions raised about his birth certificate have also been long since resolved. But "birthers" will never be satisfied, of course. They believe what they believe because they desperately want to believe it, and no proof on earth will induce them to think otherwise.

Don Firth

P. S. A "naturalized" citizen would be one who is born in a foreign country of foreign born parents, and who applies for U. S. citizenship, passes the necessary examinations, and then swears an oath of loyalty to the United States. Naturalized citizens do not qualify for President. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger, current governor of the State of California, born in Austria of Austrian parents, would not be able to run for President.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 28 May 10 - 04:14 PM

There ya go, Ich. Sweet, concise, factual and to the point. A doff of the cap to Mr Firth; read it and snarl, buddy.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:14 PM

As if logic has any hold...

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:20 PM

Like I said, ichy wants to believe it. His ego is all wrapped up in it. And crow really tastes lousy.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 06:52 PM

So what difference would it make where Obama had been born, anyway? Hawaii, Kenya, Outer Mongolia, Alpha Centauri - so what? Just not relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:42 PM

Because they're ignorant of the actual content of the law about natural-born citizens and think if he was born in Outer Mongolia he isn't really an American citizen. I find it delightful when people are pig-ignorant about the constitution on exactly the issue they are invoking it for. Nearly as good are hyper patriots who treat the US flag in ways that violate the flag code.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:50 PM

Presumably if someone is born in the USA from illegal immigrants, they are still natural born American and eligible to be elected president. That'd really freak out the birthers. I hope it happens sometime.

How about children in occupied countries with American fathers and local mothers? Madame Butterfly's son, for example.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 28 May 10 - 08:04 PM

The confusion is that if you're born on US soil, you're automatically a citizen. That does NOT mean, however, that if you're not born on US soil, you're not a citizen. It's a logical fallacy. Then again who said teabaggers were logicians?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:04 PM

Mousethief speaks true.

The only exceptions I am aware of are children of foreign ambassadors or diplomats—employees or agents of foreign governments—who are born in the United States. They would be "natural born" citizens of whatever country their parents are from. This stipulation does not apply to those who are not in the diplomatic corps, or to immigrants or visitors from foreign countries.

There is also such a thing as dual citizenship. I knew a fellow in college who was born in South Africa of British parents, but who was a naturalized citizen of the United States. The U. S. State Department wanted him to give up his British passport, but it was not a legal requirement and he wanted to retain it because it would allow him to travel to countries that were "off limits" to Americans at the time, such as the Soviet Union. He wanted to maintain the flexibility. But—he could not run for President of the United States because he was not born in the U. S., nor was he born of one or more parents who were U. S. citizens.

No, unless "birthers" such as ichAbod and his buddy, the Reverend Manning, can establish that Obama was born outside of the United States or its territories and that neither of his parents was an American citizen, they're merely running around like headless chickens and making silly noises.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:54 PM

Ah well, maybe it's a good thing to keep a certain number of the teabaggers busy with the birther shit -- it keeps them from doing actual harm somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 10 - 11:09 AM

IF the whole thing weren't so toxic--because of the underlying bitter and neurotic sentiment, not because of the content--it would be pitiable. Rabid bunny rabbits.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:25 PM

"...somebody said his grandmother said..."

Mousethief, which grandmother?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 10 - 12:27 PM

It occurs to me that if a president HAD to be born in the US or its territories even when his mother was a US citizen, no pregnant woman from here would dare travel to foreign lands.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 30 May 10 - 03:15 PM

Mousethief, which grandmother?

Don't ask me, ask Icky. He's the one who brought it up.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:05 PM

Natural born in the USA - considering prettywell the whole population's roots are somewhere else, that's rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 07:16 PM

A college instructor who worked as senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in 2008 is making the stunning claim Barack Obama was definitely not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, and that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State.

"There is no birth certificate," said Tim Adams, a graduate assistant who teaches English at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Ky. "It's like an open secret. There isn't one. Everyone in the government there knows this."

"I had direct access to the Social Security database, the national crime computer, state driver's license information, international passport information, basically just about anything you can imagine to get someone's identity," Adams explained. "I could look up what bank your home mortgage was in. I was informed by my boss that we did not have a birth record [for Obama]."

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=165041

Some stuff on google if you search "Tim Adams Obama" too.

Obama's an illegal alien. He wasn't born in America, his legal name isn't even Barack Obama. Biggest scam ever run on the American people.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 07:41 PM

Gee, I think Mudcat is running out of tinfoil, so much has been used up lately.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:31 PM

I nominate Itchy for the "Fuckwit Of The Century" award.

Anyone second the motion?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 10:43 PM

Paranoid schizophrenia.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:28 AM

Has this guy been fired for unlawful misuse of personally identifying information?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:39 PM

Itchy is mischaracterizing even his own citation link.

On reading the WND link, it's clear that this "college instructor" (which may mean that he's just a part time teaching assistant, to help out with his tuition as a grad student) is either just all wet or perhaps outright lying. Adams claims that his department had access to all sorts of identification records, with the claim that they would have had the birth record if there had been one, but that his boss said they didn't have one. But the very article Itchy provides quotes a higher-up in that office that they don't have access to birth certificates.

I suppose the statement that "We don't have one" merely means that "Our office doesn't have anything like that."

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 01:52 PM

Well, see, that's the kind of sensitivity to different meanings and other distinctions of fact that gets washed away when the human mind succumbs to fear and hatred, as Ichy's has done, even when it tries deserately to cover itself up with a thin veneer of pretended reasonableness. It's just horseshit with spray paint on it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:10 PM

Yes, we have no bananas,
We have no bananas today!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:28 PM

The article's pretty clear cut. Tim Adams was senior elections clerk in 2008. He says no birth record for Obama.

And no one has produced a birth certificate. People keep pointing to the short form birth certificate, which anyone can get, but his long form certificate has never been made public.

The governor of Hawaii said she never saw the birth certificate--she sent her health director to look at it. So we're getting third-hand information on the certificate. And now the governor is amending her story. Fishy.

Obama's African relatives say they saw him born in Kenya, he's produced no proof of birth, and he's spent over 2 million bucks hiding all his personal records. He became a "community organizer" after law school because he wouldn't have been able to pass the background check had he applied for work with a law firm. So he worked as a community organizer, then he was fast-tracked in politics. Once he got his diplomatic passport as an Illinois state senator, he never had to show any other form of I.D.

If he was born in the U.S., prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:31 PM

Ha ha ha ha, um.... ha!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:35 PM

Oh, Ick. You don't apparently see the difference between word-of-mouh wild-assed improbability and the most likely truth.

Your assertions are not backed up by direct evidence. The Hawaiian government official attested to the validity of the birth certificate. The local newspaper reported the birth. All you have to the contrary is a bunch of improbable far-out rumor mongering with about as much cred as being "sucked up by aliens and violated for biological research purposes in a mother ship". I'm sure you've had that happen, so you must know how it feels to appear unbelievable to so many otherwise apparently intelligent folks. Besides, that would account for your head being stuck so far up your ass.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:48 PM

The local newspaper took a birth announcement from a couple of happy maternal grandparents.

Inadmissable.

Next argument.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:52 PM

A lie. But what else would one expect?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

Hawaii's health director is Dr. Chiyome Fukino. She was appointed to her job by the governor. Fukino was not elected. She was appointed and is thereby beholden to the governor for her job.

In July of 2009, Fukino said, "I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago…."

How is that proof of anything? Dr. Fukino also said, "All of the evidence that we have says that the beaches are as safe now as they were before the sewage spill."

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/dr._chiyome_fukino/

Witness not reliable. Non-admissable.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

Conspiracy theorists like the birthers would rather believe a complicated lie rather than the clear-cut facts. It makes them feel special, like they have "inside info"... like Heaven's Gate and Comet Hale-Bopp.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:10 PM

Looks like Dr. Fukino did some waffling on a sewage spill in Hawaii. Said there weren't "standards" and such, then said the beaches were fine.

"Basically, there are no standards for bacteria and sand samples, so the question: what does it mean?"

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/dr._chiyome_fukino/2.html

Oh, this Fukino looks like a real piece of detritus. Sewage spill in April of 2006, million gallons of crap polluting Waikiki beach, then she said there was no point in testing the sand after the spill because studies have never been able to link human illness to bacteria found in the sand.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/archive/index.php/t-8404.html

Oh, yeah. This is someone I'd trust when she said she saw a birth certificate.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:39 PM

I hereby withdraw my nomination of Itchy for "Fuckwit of the Century". he's obviously WAY overqualified.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 10:38 PM

So let me get this straight.

A woman says it's okay to swim in shit on Waikiki, and then she tells you she saw Obama's birth certificate. And you believe her on the birth certificate thing.

Does that sum it up?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:20 PM

Methinks more that just a few people have seen Obama's birth certificate.

Speaking of swimming in shit, Ichy. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:48 PM

Okay, Don. List the people who've seen the birth certificate. The actual long-form birth certificate.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:40 AM

Ichy, you just are not getting it, are you. You are acting like a pure-dee nut-job because of your conflation of half-truths and improbabilities. You're skewed, bent, crooked in your thinking, buried in shot of your own devising, fueled by aberration and dedicated to mis-statements.

Go do this elsewhere.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:57 AM

The so called "long form" birth certificate is a souvenir for parents that hospitals sometimes provide. It is not the legal birth certificate, or certificate of live birth that is the state form. That is the type of legal birth certificate Obama has provided as proof. Asking for a "long form", something parents get from the hospital to put in a baby book as a souvenir, is ridiculous. But it is something birther conspirator's seem to be obsessed with.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:04 AM

image of Obama's birth certificate

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:04 AM

And if he provides a long form, they will have some other proof it wasn't the real thing. The issue isn't about proof. It's about hate. It's about having an excuse to hate Obama (see! he's not a real American and shouldn't be president!) so you can pretend it's not about his being black. Because that's what it's about.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:12 AM

I agree, it is about hating the fact that Obama was elected.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:34 AM

Yeah, my birth certificate looks about like that. Contains essentially the same kind of information. Only it was issued in the State of California.

This, of course, would mean to Ichy that I was born on the third moon of Mars.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:18 AM

It might be interesting to compare Obama's birth certificate with others issued by Hawaii. It should not be difficult to demonstrate that that is the form that Hawaii uses.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:48 AM

The issue isn't about proof. It's about hate.

With a large component of stupidity, lunacy, irrationality and delusion.

These preople are a danger to themselves & others and should be instititionalized.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:16 PM

I'm thinking that Joe Offer ought to restore the original thread title, "A Crazy Birther in the Court"

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 12:25 PM

If a birther would contact their state to get a copy of their own birth certificate, they would not get the original, they would get a printed copy of what the state provides. That is what Obama has provided with an image of it online. As stated before, they just don't accept him, no matter what proof is provided.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:11 PM

It doesn't matter if he wasn't born in the United States. His mother is an American. That makes him a natural-born citizen. Being born in the United States is sufficient but not necessary to being a natural-born US citizen. The whole kerfuffle about "birtherism" is caused by ignorance of the law. Which isn't terribly surprising, all things considered. Hate can blind you to facts.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM

Yes, more than one reason that he is a citizen. I do think the birther movement is crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:18 PM

Curious.

Beyond what's on the Certificate of Live Birth, what additional information would be included on ichMael's hypothetical "long form" birth certificate?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

Oh, Don, I'm sure the long form would give hobbies and interests of the parents, extended family reunions, pictures of ancestors and their hopes for the future of their child. In Obama's case, they projected their plans for his presidency.

Just like mine. :)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

The "long form" that hospitals provide as a souvenir sometimes has the baby foot prints, the doctor's signature, parents signature... but it is not a LEGAL document that you could use to get a passport.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:42 PM

I can see where the "long form", or "souvenir form" might give length and weight of the baby, which don't seem to be on the official record of live birth. Might give that Daddy was present at the birth, if he was.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:49 PM

I googled "hospital souvenir birth certificate".
Here is one example
click

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: John P
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:52 PM

They keep saying that Obama is hiding some big secret because he doesn't engage with them on their "facts". I, for one, am really, really glad that my president has better things to do than publicly debate idiocy with loonies.

It's easy to make up fiction and then keep saying it as fact. "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" I read it on the web! It must be true!

ichMael, why aren't you addressing the issue? Why do you keep pretending the sky is blue? What are you hiding by not being willing to publicly admit that the sky is red? The CIA has known for years that the sky is red. They've told the last four presidents, but nothing has been done yet. If you would just get on board we could clear this question up once and for all . . . is someone blackmailing you to force you to pretend the sky is blue?

"The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!" "The sky is red!"

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:05 PM

Birthers seem to be confusing the hospital "long form", not a legal document, and the "long form" 8.5"x14" page vital statistics record which is a legal document (the page is longer than an 8.5"x11" page).

The CDC has a document online that describes birth certificates, death certificates, and other document specifications of vital and health statistics.

It is a PDF file called
The 1989 Revision of the U.S. Standard Certificates and Reports from the US government CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL / National Center for Health Statistics.

the PDF file is at cdc.gov: Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:42 PM

I'd forgotten that. I was given a Certificate of Birth that included sex, time of birth, weight, hospital, attending physician and foot prints.

It was NOT the official certificate of birth. As said above, it was a souvenir meant for the Baby Book.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:43 PM

So, it is the souvenir certificate that the birthers are howling for? Amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:28 PM

Yeah, I have a photostat of my birth certificate. Looks very much like the Obama "Certificate of Live Birth." It is legal and official. The original is on file in Los Angeles County, Calfornia.

I think my parents also got a copy with the same information, plus prints of my little feetses, to put in a "baby book" (my two sisters had baby books, too).

I don't recall the little bunny, though. Does that mean I was born somewhere else and the whole thing is a fraud?

So—who am I? Where was I born? What am I? Were my parents just jivin' me?

Does the missing bunny mean I could never run for President?

(I tremble with fear!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:54 PM

Don Firth inquired:

Does the missing bunny mean I could never run for President?


No, it doesn't mean that, Don. Anyone can run for President. Even Itchy can run for President!

But if you're not a natural born US citizen, you can't serve in the office.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 06:28 PM

Itchy as President!??

Now I DO tremble with fear!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:12 PM

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=165041

Okay. That's a link to the article about Tim Adams. I'll quote from it since it gives some bullet points on this controversy.

Among other things, the article says, "The White House has maintained a computer-generated Certification of Live Birth, or COLB, is proof enough of Obama's Hawaiian birth, even though it has no hospital or doctor's name on it. Such documents differ from a Certificate of Live Birth which includes those details. In response to a direct question from WND, the Hawaii Department of Health refused to authenticate either of the two versions of Obama's short-form COLB, posted online – neither the image produced by the Obama campaign nor the images released by FactCheck.org."

I can't simplify the issue much more than that. He hasn't shown a valid birth certificate. And if he was born in Kenya of a father who was a British subject, there's no way he qualifies to be president. His whore of a mother should have pulled someone else's name out of the air.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:57 PM

You are one sick puppy to call the president's mother a whore.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:59 PM

IchMael, if you can give us a reasonable explanation of why it is more appropriate to call Obama's mother a whore than it would be for one of us to call your mother a whore, we may not be forced to conclude that you are filthy crawling slime.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 09:42 PM

What Dean and Alice said.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 10:42 PM

Totally consumed by irrational hatred. And with a soul full of dark and ugly spiders.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 12:46 AM

I don't know what I had for the first 31 years of my life. But it wasn't an official birth certificate. I know, because I took it down to the passport office to apply, and discovered it wasn't an official birth certificate. It was something you wave at the state official to get a copy of your birth certificate.

I have had to get several, since they have a bad habit of getting lost. I needed one when I applied for a passport. I needed one when I went for my first driver's license. I know I'm a natural born U.S. Citizen. I expect Mr. Obama is too.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:07 AM

You know, if John McCain had won the presidency I wonder if a fuss would have been made about his citizenship? I realize he was born in the Panama of an American mother but that kind of fact doesn't faze the idiot fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:17 AM

It doesn't matter who his father was or where he was born. If his mother is an American citizen, then Obama is a natural born American citizen. Period. End of Story. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Calling his mother a whore, though, is of jaw-dropping sliminess. IchMael isn't just nuts. He's despicable and nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 02:30 PM

I got to wondering just what the final word is on 'natural born' and found this (I will no longer pay any attention to the slime among us):


"As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do (sic) create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

*Anyone born inside the United States *
*Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
*Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
*Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
*Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
*Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
*Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
*A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

***Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example."

UNnatural must mean Formal Naturalization

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:08 PM

Thanks, Ebbie. That sums it up nicely.

So--since Obama's mother (no matter what the nature of her "morality" might be, ichMael!) was born in Kansas (that IS in the United States, remember), it makes no difference where Obama was born or who his father might have been. He's a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Case closed! What next, Mr. Irrelevant?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 09:12 AM

Problem is it ain't just Itchy - there's a whole cadre of these delusional idiots on the loose.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM

Mass delusion is an established phenomena. Whole communities have been built on it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 12:25 PM

More like whole NATIONS.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 12:44 PM

And it really doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution.
It's about a (gasp) librul who is also (double gasp) non-white!

All else is smokescreen.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 01:46 PM

I have to say that I have been following this "birther" debate very closely since it started. I had always thought that my oldest son could not be President of the United States because he was born in Berlin when I was stationed there.
Then came the 2008 election, with one candidate born in Panama and the other the son of a foreign national (and born in Hawaii, which had just barely become a state). And all the experts said that both candidates were "natural-born" U.S. citizens. This gave me great hope, since my son is now 37 and getting to old to lead a punk rock band. Maybe my own son can become President, after all these years that I thought there was no hope for him.
But if these birthers prevail, then maybe my son will be doing punk rock when he's 80....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM

Well, lemme see, now. . . .

I was born in Los Angeles and I lived the first nine years of my life in Pasadena before we moved to Seattle. Quite a nice neighborhood, actually, although not really what one could call posh. A Hispanic family lived across the street (they ran a dry cleaning establishment) and there was a black family living a couple of doors up the street. The oldest girl was attending UCLA, and the younger kids were playmates. My birth certificate, issued in L.A., is only one page and looks very much like Obama's and contains much the same kind of information.

Obviously, I'm not qualified to be president.

(Ye gods, who'd want the job!!???)

Don Firth

P. S. I think TIA's got it. Obama's one of those wild-eyed liberals (a notch or two to the left of Rush Limbaugh) and he's the wrong hue.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:18 PM

Obama's one of those wild-eyed liberals (a notch or two to the left of Rush Limbaugh) and he's the wrong hue.

Tsar Ivan IV was a notch or two to the left of Limbaugh. Obama is a bit farther than that.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:08 AM

True indeed, mouse. But left of Rush is far too liberal for a some folks here, it would seem.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 02:25 AM

When do Limbaugh, Coulter, and Beck start complaining about how each other are not right-wing enough? That could be entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 08:36 AM

I believe you'll find that they've started to do that already, Mouse.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 03:18 PM

//It doesn't matter if he wasn't born in the United States. His mother is an American. That makes him a natural-born citizen. Being born in the United States is sufficient but not necessary to being a natural-born US citizen. The whole kerfuffle about "birtherism" is caused by ignorance of the law. Which isn't terribly surprising, all things considered. Hate can blind you to facts.//

Wrong. His mother BY LAW had to be at least 19 for Obama to be a citizen if he was born in Kenya. She was 18. Therefore if Obama was born outside the US he cannot serve as president even if he were naturalized.

With that said, until the birthers come up with something to prove Obama was born outside the US they are beating a dead horse. I only wish the horse were alive so it could kick them square in the face.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 03:28 PM

josep, take another look. By law, in addition to being a US citizen, Obama's mother had to have spent "at least six years" in the US. Since she was born and raised in Kansas, it seems evident that she spent enough time in the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 04:07 PM

Which orifice did you pull the "must be 19" reference out of? The law appears above, on this very thread, and there's nothing about having to be 19. It's just wrong. But that doesn't matter to a birther. A new excuse for Obama not to be a natural-born American will always be found, no matter how wrong and stupid. It's so hard to admit you're wrong. Even when the very law in question is posted right before your eyes. I feel sorry for you, I really do.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,josep
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 06:56 PM

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

-One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
-The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
-A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

As specified in Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad. U.S. Department of State. http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

The requirements you refer to above appear to be quite recent since the year 2009 appears quite a number of times. The requirements have changed over the years. At the time of Obama'a birth, his mother would have had to be 19 if she gave birth to him outside the country. She was 18 therefore Obama would not be a citizen.

I further want to clarify I am NOT a birther. I merely state the law. There is no evidence that he was born in Kenya or anywhere outside the U.S. therefore it is a moot point whether Ann Dunham was 19 or not. The birthers have not proven their case and so have no case.

I also resent your stupid attitude that simply because I have researched the topic and am impartial about it that you should call me a birther without knowing anything about me. I will be expecting an apology in your next response should you choose to give one as a matter of decency and maturity.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:00 AM

Expecting an apology? I might have given one if you had asked for one. But you presume too much.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:03 AM

Good luck getting that apology. Wouldn't hold your breath.

That's true about Shirley/Stanley Dunham (name confusion seems to run in the family). Dunham traveled a lot, too, and she may not have met the residency requirements, in addition to the age thing.

And I apologize for calling her a whore. I should have said she was a slut. She slept around a lot. There are lists on the internet, by I don't even want to honor the slut by doing a search. I personally think Barry/Barack looks more like his future father in law Barry Soetoro than Barack Obama Sr., so who knows. Bill Clinton's mother was a slut too. What was his story...that his father was truck driver or something?

Obama/Soetoro is an impostor. He's a fraud. Now HE'S a whore. And I'm not talking about his whole homosexual two-step thing, he's just a corporate whore. Now THAT'S something we can all agree on.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:08 AM

And I should have said...trescientos.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 09:44 AM

It is possible, Michael, that you are, yourself, an intellectual whore, willing to throw up your heels for any piece of half-assed fantasy that comes your way. A mental roundheel, with no standards or fiber.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 04:42 PM

If any of this were true, believe me, it would have come out early in the campaign.

I don't know why we pay any attention to trash like ichMael. He's nothing but a petty little hate-monger.

The stench around here is overwhelming.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 05:17 PM

Don - My theory is that there are a few trolls here that are so desperate for attention that they are willing to spread rumors that they don't even believe themselves. The more outlandish the story - and the more we try to convince them of it - the more attention they get. Mission accomplished.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 06:15 PM

Could very well be, Wesley: as in:
(riinnng, riinnng) "Hi,...pant, pant, pant, - guess what I'm wearing..."

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 06:24 PM

I agree, Wesley.

But I do think that when a hatemonger or propagandist like ichMael posts the sort of slime he does, it's incumbent upon someone to reveal the true nature of his libels just in case someone might be naïve enough to give it credence.

But beyond that, the ravings of ichMael and other bits of human detritus such as he should be regarded as of no more significance than other offensive bodily noises.

Rather like opening the windows to let in a bit for fresh, clean air, but otherwise, just ignore it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 02:59 AM

Hey - he got 306 responses......

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 08:50 PM

Talked to someone today who's been approved for Social Security Disability. Some final papers need to be turned in / looked at, and he took a Certification of Live Birth to the office as proof of birth. They rejected it. Said he needs a REAL birth certificate. He's ordered an official copy from his county of birth.

The impostor Obama has shown the world a Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth. He couldn't be approved for SSD with the document.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 10:14 PM

(YAWN)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 07:00 PM

As if the Bush family didn't crap on my state enough, today Air Force One deposited the turd known as Barack Obama in Austin. Or is his name Obama? Anyway, here's a promising bit of news:

A new poll by CNN, whose editorial commentary largely supports President Obama and his policies, delivered some bad news on his apparent birthday today: 6 of 10 people are uncertain the president was even born in the United States.

The poll was taken July 16-21 of 1,018 adults, including 335 Democrats and 285 Republicans. It has a margin of error of 3 percentage points....

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=187781
So, not even Democrats believe the turd is an American.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 07:02 PM

You should have plenty of company among the loony madcaps, then Michael. Off you go, join them up and godspeed.


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 07:04 PM

This thread got revived some how, but I can't find a post with any actual content to account for it coming up again. Won't it be nice if it just disappears again?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 07:22 PM

Six out of ten Americans know the guy's a fraud. It's getting crowded on this side of the fence.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 08:26 PM

ichMael revived it, frogprince. Check the dates on the postings.

South-central Texas, ichMael? Yeah, I understand that there are little pockets of people like you living around there.

Sad. . . .

I wonder what Molly Ivens would say about people like ichMael. Probably something like

To President Obama, if he were even to notice, having someone like ichMael attacking him is ". . . an experience somewhat akin to being gummed by a newt. It doesn't actually hurt, but it leaves you with slimy stuff on your ankle."

Or

"Personally, I think ichMael is evidence that the Great Scriptwriter in the sky is trying to test the efficacy of our gag reflex."

Or

"If ignorance ever goes to $40 a barrel, I want drilling rights on his head."

Since Icky-Mickey's back, the locks on the padded cell doors must be malfunctioning again.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 08:27 PM

Can't let this go by: "...he took a Certification of Live Birth to the office as proof of birth. They rejected it. Said he needs a REAL birth certificate."

No, they did not. What they did is say that your friend had to bring in a certificate direct from the issuer, not a copy. It needs to have the raised stamp. Getting a passport requires the same thing.

Damn. I was hoping the Ick had passed on somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 09:35 PM

Aristarchus (310 B.C. to 230 B.C.), reasoning from careful observations, developed the theory that the earth was a globe, and it revolved around the sun (heliocentrism), instead of the popular belief at the time that it was the other way around.

Eratosthenes (276 B.C. to 95 B.C.), picking up where Aristarchus left off, established the circumference of the earth accurately, to within approximately 100 miles.

Nevertheless, there are some people today who still insist that the earth is flat—maintaining that all this "nonsense" about space flight and landing men on the moon never happened. All the news film one saw on television, they claim, was done in the Disney studios.

Now hear this:   no matter how many people insist—and even vote for—the ideas that 1) the sun goes around the earth rather than the earth orbiting the sun; 2) the earth is flat and all the film we see "allegedly" from space is done either at Disney Studios or Industrial Light and Magic; and 3) Barack Obama is not an American citizen because he was not born in the United States—does not alter the facts that 1) the earth orbits the sun; 2) the earth is round, not flat; and 3) Barack Obama, the son of a Kenyan father and an American (from Kansas, dead center of the United States) mother, was born in Hawaii on August 4th in 1961. Hawaii became the 50th state, admitted to the union on August 21st, 1959, approximately two years before Barack Obama was born. The Certificate of Live Birth IS the official and legal Birth Certificate issued by the State of Hawaii. And many, many other states.

(If a baby was stillborn, in most states, for the record, they would still issue a birth certificate, but it would not be a certificate of live birth, for obvious reasons.)

And furthermore, since one parent, his mother, was an American citizen, that means that he is an American, whether he was born in Kansas, Hawaii, Kenya, or on the third moon of Barsoom.

No matter who—or how many—believe—or vote—otherwise. And that includes ignorant, drooling rednecks.

Facts and Truth are not determined (or altered) by plebiscite.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 09:57 PM

Facts and Truth are not determined (or altered) by plebiscite.

There you go being logical and rational again. I'm not sure that's wanted on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 10:05 PM

"ichMael revived it, frogprince. Check the dates on the postings"
I realized that, Don,

"but I can't find a post with any actual content to account for it coming up again. Won't it be nice if it just disappears again?"

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 10:16 PM

Why would expecvt a logical stimulus to account for an insane impulse, FP? It is the nature of irrationality, when it gets severe, to produce all kinds of disconnected reactions to present factors, because the mind in that condition cannot differentiate between the present and the past.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 10:25 PM

Ah, shucks, he's just taking a break from standing there for the past several days, cross-eyed and buttle-deeing his lower lip.

Mind? Naw. Doesn't really factor in.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 10:57 PM

Okay. For the cognitively impaired among you, I'll repeat the newsflash:

A new poll by CNN, whose editorial commentary largely supports President Obama and his policies, delivered some bad news on his apparent birthday today: 6 of 10 people are uncertain the president was even born in the United States.

The poll was taken July 16-21 of 1,018 adults, including 335 Democrats and 285 Republicans. It has a margin of error of 3 percentage points....

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=187781

CNN supports Obama. CNN loaded a poll with Democrats. CNN learned that 60% of Americans are uncertain Obama was born in the U.S.

So for you 40% who believe he WAS born in the U.S., you should really start pondering the nature of insanity. 60% of us think you're supporting a Kenyan-born impostor at the expense of your own constitution. Is that a sane thing to do?

Obama's a one-termer. Time to cut your losses and limit the damage he does to the country in the time he has left. He wants to kill your kids in new wars in Pakistan and Iran. Don't let him.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:08 PM

Speaking of "cognitively impaired. . . ."

If ten out of ten people believed it, it still doesn't mean it's true.

We have a bit of time between now and November 2012. A lot can happen between now and then, so I wouldn't write Obama off if I were you (which, thank God, I'm not!).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:37 PM

From the link: But that leaves almost six of 10 Americans uncertain about the president's birth – and therefore his eligibility under the U.S. Constitution to be president.

WRONG. You do NOT have to be born in the US to be president. You have to be a natural and not naturalized citizen. Being born in the territory of the US is one way to be a natural citizen. It is not the only way.

Icky (as is the article) also is a bit misleading about the results of the poll. If 42% think he was definitely born in the US, and 29% think he was probably born in the US, that's 71% of people who don't have a problem with his eligibility to be president. That's a LOT more than 50%. That's a supermajority. A supermajority of people polled have no problem with Obama's eligibility to be president.

Maybe right-wingers misunderstand the meaning of "certainty". Indeed many of them say they are "certain" about things they most definitely are not, by any reasonable meaning of "certain". If you haven't been following the whole birther thing, you might well say he was "probably" born in the US. That's what I'd say about Shrub, because I have no idea where he was born, and don't care. I know his parents were US citizens, so it doesn't matter if he was born on the moon -- because I know what is required to be a natural citizen of the US.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 11:50 PM

The fact remains, only 42% are SURE he was born in the U.S. And the disturbing thing is that those people are taking it on faith. No documents have been produced to show his place of birth or even his citizenship. He's an illegal alien. His legal name is Barry Soetoro, and his mother changed his nationality to Indonesian. His citizenship was never changed back, and his name remains Barry Soetoro.

This will all come out in time. As it stands now, only 42% are certain he was born here. And they're the faithful...the blinded true believers. But there is hope. The left is beginning to attack him, and he can't withstand that. His base has crumbled.

He'll be replaced in a primary challenge, but he's done his job to further the destruction of America. I just want him to get the hell out of Austin and go back to Man's Country.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:36 AM

The fact remains, only 42% are SURE he was born in the U.S.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~Bertrand Russell

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 12:45 AM

"Out of Austin?" I know you're in Texas, Icky, but in Austin? You don't deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 10:50 AM

That ratio is way out of line and isprobably based on a Texas survey.

THe fact is he was born in the US of a US citizen, his mother. LEgal documnentation has been provided.

Give up this silly fiction, would you? Don't you have anything more important to do?


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 10:48 PM

Oddly enough, the last presidential candidate who wasn't born in the us was Barry Goldwater. McCain wasn't, though he qualifies as having parents in the US armed forces.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 10 - 11:27 PM

Well, if six of ten Americans are uncertain about Obama's birth, I'd guess a good many of them think he's not a citizen because he was born in a foreign country called Hawaii. When it comes to geography, Americans ain't too bright.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 12:14 AM

Well, if six of ten Americans are uncertain about Obama's birth, I'd guess a good many of them think he's not a citizen because he was born in a foreign country called Hawaii. When it comes to geography, Americans ain't too bright.

Good point.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 12:24 AM

Oh...

The poll was off. Americans are stoopid. There are more important things to worry about.

The poll wasn't off, Americans aren't stupid, and there is nothing more important than the U.S. constitution. It is the impediment to world tyranny and must be defended at all costs. It must be defended against imposters inserted into the executive branch. If you let that pass, then what's to stop more erosion of the constitution? What about freedom of assembly? You have that right, and the constitution reaffirms it. But if it's okay to put a Kenyan in the white house, then why not do away with freedom of assembly? Those folk musicians sing songs critical of government sometimes, don't they? Well, let's don't let them do that anymore.

This is a constitutional issue. It's important.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 12:38 AM

Even freedom of assembly, icky, was put in later.

I would like a list - an intelligent list - of the infringed Constitutional rights that you and the other hysterics bleat about.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:09 AM

Yup. Spoken like a real Texas redneck, ichMael.

Problem with your whole argument is that Obama is not a Kenyan, he is an American. Born—alive, according to his legal birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii—which is the fiftieth state of the United States (it became a state a couple of years before Obama was born there). Whether you like or not, whether you believe it or not, it's true. And this makes him an American. And even if his father was a Kenyan, his mother was an American, born in Kansas, dead center of the country, and you can't get more American than that, even if it isn't Texas. So according to the United States Consitution, Barack Obama is an American on two counts.

Didn't you used to be one of the Swift Boat Veterans for (ahem!) "Truth?"

Your real problem with Barack Obama is that he tends to be liberal. But the major problem that you and your cohorts have with Obama is that he is the wrong color.

So throw the noose in the corner and leave your white sheet hanging in the closet. Those days are gone forever. Go out and have a beer.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 02:56 AM

He may not be old enough, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:36 AM

Obama's 6% black. That's if Barack Obama Sr. was between the whore Dunham's legs at the moment of Junior's conception. 6% black, but that's 100% of the reason to support him?

Makes me think of Affirmative Action. Do you support it? Do you support the elevation of one race over another? If so, then slave owning was okay, to your way of thinking.

This stuff has nothing to do with racism. It's about our constitution being violated. Liberals are now in the minority on believing in Obama's citizenship. If you're not careful, you'll find the impostor in chief sending you off to fight a civil war for him and other "blacks." Do you have that much blind faith?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:56 AM

Americans aren't stupid,

Cite evidence, please, Itchy.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:06 AM

Icky, if you're an AMerican, which is debatable you are walking proof they can grow pretty thick. You like to bandy about heavy words like "constitutional" but cannot parse a clear statement to say what you are referring to. As for Obama's mother, she was better educated than you are, and far less of a whore than you are.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:39 PM

icky, you poor child. You can't get anything right. Here is the poll you referred to. In its entirety.

I would tell you to be ashamed of yourself but I suspect you have spent your whole life being ashamed or yourself.

"On President Barack Obama's birthday, a new CNN/Opinion Research released Wednesday shows 41 percent of Republicans believe Obama was "probably" or "definitely" born in another country.

"The poll of 1,018 adults shows 27 percent of Americans believe the president was "probably" or "definitely" born in another country, compared with 71 percent who think he was born in the United States.

"Among the 285 self-identified Republicans polled, however, the percentage who think Obama was born outside of the country spikes to 41 percent, with 57 percent believing he was born in the United States.

"Nineteen percent of independents think Obama was "probably" or "definitely" born in another country, as do 15 percent of Democrats. CNN/Opinion Research surveyed 398 independents and 335 Democrats for the poll.

"A certificate of live birth from the state of Hawaii confirms that Wednesday is indeed the president's 49th birthday spent as a natural-born American citizen, yet the so-called "birther" conspiracy theory that he was born in Kenya or another country has persisted since the 2008 campaign.

"Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh floated the theory during his show Tuesday, mentioning that the next day was the president's birthday, though he hasn't "seen any proof of that."

The poll was conducted July 16-21 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40644.html

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:53 PM

ichMael's implicit assumption:   any white woman who sleeps with a black man, including a black man to whom she is legally married, is a "whore."

ichMael, you are beneath contempt!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 02:50 PM

Ebbie, thank you for catching icky with his hand in the cookie jar!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 03:18 PM

Boy, Ick, you sure twisted the hell out of that little bit of information! Maybe you ought to measure thrice before you type once.



A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 03:55 PM

Just a little side-point, but it seems to illustrate the convoluted nature of ichMael's thinking (?) processes:

Barack Obama's father was a Kenyan. Black. His mother was a Kansan. White.

This makes Barack Obama 6% black?

ichMael, explain this to me. How does that work? The answer should be really fascinating!

Don Firth

P. S. Flunk math, ichMael? Or did you go to school at all?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 04:05 PM

I noticed the 6% too, but I just didn't have the heart to lift the lid on the septic tank and holler "please explain that".

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:45 PM

FrogPrince, well put. lol

I noticed it too but decided that we would know soon enough the latest garbage that is being dumped and lapped up by the ickies of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:47 PM

There are actually a lot of folks running around who are maybe 6% or more black, but who don't know it. Particularly in the South.

More than one slave owner or overseer was given to tamper a bit with the female slaves.

Who knows what genes ichMael's DNA might be carrying, that he doesn't even suspect. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:03 PM

Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).

http://www.cf-cia.org/obama_lineage.htm

That stuff's been out there forever. Do you folks physically close your eyes when you see something like that on your screens, or is it like a mental eyelid that blocks the information?

Obama's got a LOT of skeletons he's hiding, his father's lineage being one of them. A lot of you still believe he's "black," and you might not goosestep to his tune if you find out he's not. I read once that if your parents' families (European) had been in the U.S. for more than 5 generations, then you definitely had "black" and "Indian" blood in you. That's why I can't understand the left's obsession with race. We're all mixed race. Get over it.

Only 40% of Americans are now sure that Obama was born in the U.S. He's toast.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:34 PM

See?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:14 PM

Frankly, I don't really care whether Obama is black, white, green, yellow, or polka-dot. He is the legally elected president of the United States, and doing a very passable job at it, in my opinion. Not everything he talked about during the campaign has been accomplished, but that's hardly to be surprised at, with the Republicans' determined efforts to impede any kind of positive effort his administration or the congressional Democrats put forth.

But, accepting icky's own descent statistics (that's probably a mistake, but let's do it for the moment) it leaves Obama with his largest portion of descent as white.    And so what?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:17 PM

Oh no! Obama mostly white? Oh, please tell me it isn't so.

I wouldn't like to see icky cry.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:20 PM

Icky likely will be happy that people are still engaging with him.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:25 PM

Oh, this is cool. I just typed in "The Mudcat Pages" into google and got the following list, in order of the number of hits received recently:

The Mudcat Pages - What is Barry Barack Soetoro Obama's Legal Name? Unless he legally changed his name back to Barack Obama, Barry Soetoro is committing forgery every time he signs a document. The Mudcat Pages.
www2.moment.net/~michael/ObamaSoetoro.htm - Cached

The Mudcat Discussion Forum Mudcat time: 12 August 2010 - 9:07 PM EDT. * Click on the linked "Messages" numbers to view the thread split into pages (click "d" for chronologically ...
www.mudcat.org/threads.cfm - Cached - Similar

Mudcat MIDIs Product Request, Max's Blues Museum, Song Origins & Info, Unanswered Requests, Member Photos & Info, Jump Rope Rhymes, Bruce Olson's Web Site, Áine's Mudcat ...
www.mudcat.org/midi/midibrowse.cfm - Cached - Similar

And so on....

You minority of 40% who still believe Obama was born in the U.S. better get your thinking right. You've been flim-flammed. Even his WIFE told you he was born in Kenya, but you still think Hawaii.

Your thinking is dysfunctional because of your liberal arts educations. They're divisive. You're taught differences rather than similarities. And your thinking is so screwed up that you now consider a man who's 6% black to be...black. Even when you knew his mother was white, you still considered him to be...black.

I dislike Obama because he's deliberately helping to destroy America (same as the Bushes and Clinton did). But any criticism of Obama is met with the cry of "racist" from the left. Pavlovian. You folks have been trained to Bark for Barky. What a shock it must be to learn that he's only 6% black. Hardee har har.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:52 PM

Oh...Obama's mother as a whore. I keep making that mistake. Technically she was a slut, not a whore. Just do a search for Frank Marshall Davis.

And technically Obama is illegitimate. Obama Sr. had other wives, and America does not recognize plural marriages.

Now tell me again how some forged Certificate of Live Birth puts all these points to rest.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:57 PM

This is getting to be fun.

"Obama Sr. had other wives, and America does not recognize plural marriages."

So, if America does not recognize plural marriages then Obama senior was married only once- to Stanley Dunham. After all, his previous marriages were not carried out in accordance with the West's requirements and therefore were not marriages.

(Sorry, Jeri)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:15 PM

Dunham's so-called marriage was one of the plural. It would not be recognized either. Obama is a bastard.

Frank Marshall Davis is most likely Obama's father. Davis couldn't claim him, though, so they sent Dunham to Kenya to go through the marriage farce. Davis later became Obama Jr.'s mentor. Obama knew all this too--his mom had a man's name, his real dad wouldn't claim him but was chewing on his ass all the time, his phony dad was some freakin' nutcase in Africa. Then his mom renounced his U.S. citizenship (bogus in the first place) to declare him an Indonesian when she started putting out for Lolo Soetoro.

Poor Obama. All the gender confusion and bafflement over parentage turned him from Obama to homObama. Let's drive that page to the top now.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:06 PM

Genius at work. Put a phrase or made-up expression on a web page, google that, and it comes right up on the browser. Put in darn near any common female name with "cam" added, and you can get to see a woman going by that name with little or nothing on. Punch in the words "frayed train": Hey, I must be one of the most famous people in the United States, or maybe the whole world; goody goody!!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:14 PM

Oh, pardon me; to get my stuff on top of google image search, you have to put it in as frayedtrain, without a space.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:31 PM

On Yahoo, mudcat pages brings up all kinds of stuff from the or about the catbox, nothing of IchMael's stuff unless it's down the line aways. Now try frayedtrain on Yahoo. Sunovagun, I must be way more important and influechul in the world than IchMail is!!!

   "Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble..."

         Heeheeheehee

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:37 PM

Sorry, guys; it didn't occur to me right away that Ich will probably now go six days without sleep, searching his site time after time, trying to be sure it comes to the top on all the browsers.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:45 PM

What happened was, there was an international push yesterday to search the name "Barry Soetoro." An internet radio program urged its listeners to search the name, and the term became the #1 phrase searched on google for the day. Apparently people poked around and found my page on the topic. So, for today at least, if you typed in "The Mudcat Pages" on google, my page appeared above this site's. I expect when homObama's sexploits at Man's Country become news it'll happen again.

The guy's such a pig, and he and his wife hate America, he deserves all the grief he can get. I'm just doing my bit. Did the same with GWBush. You folks need to quit looking at the world through the two-party lenses they force on you. The parties work together to take away your rights.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:00 AM

Arabic isn't a race, it's a language and an ethnicity. There are black Arabs and white Arabs (and, doubtless, Asian Arabs).

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:11 AM

Good God ! You sound like Guest from Sanity!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:16 AM

"Your thinking is dysfunctional because of your liberal arts educations."

As I said before, spoken like a true redneck

Boy, he just gets better and better!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: ichMael
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:17 AM

My Frog photo from last year. Found the little bugger stuck in the lid to the water cut-off. He kept staring up at me every time I walked past, day after day, until he crumbled away. He looks pretty PO'd here.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:17 AM

Good God ! You sound like Guest from Sanity!

Me, or Mikey?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:54 AM

Great heavens! Not you, MouseThief.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:49 PM

Oh good. I'll not have to off myself.

(BTW: Leap Day!)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 12:43 PM

Ich:

Barry Obama is an American patriot, whether you can see it or not. While you spend your days rutting in the sewer of your paranoid delusions, he puts everything he has on the line to try and build a better future for the country.

On due reflection, I think you should be shamed of yourself for your contumacious slanders and your unbridled misguided arrogance. Thoroughly ashamed.

I am sure this will not penetrate your self-involved brain, but it needs to be said. You are trading in libels against a good, hard-working citizen of the United States. How unAmerican of you!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:28 PM

If he is indeed an American.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:54 PM

Whew; for about a second, I thought Uncle Dave's last post referred to Prez Obama; then I got it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:01 PM

I expect that he is an American - we've got a lot of those like him around- read some of the Comments posted on some news stories...

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM

Why would he even care about all this crap people are raving on about here if he wasn't American? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:25 PM

I dunno. Never stopped you, did it?

(Now, this time I AM kidding.)

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:42 PM

Heh! ;-) Well, I had to, Ebbie...to make the point, you see, that no one except an American would be at all likely to bother spending much if any of their time fighting over this particular matter. I bet they've got stuff in Russia like this that they argue about endlessly too...and none of us even knows what it is!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:23 AM

And the latest polls show that a *majority of Republicans* are now birthers.

Actually this is great news for Obama.

He will run against a GOP candidate who is entirely unelectable.

http://www.newser.com/story/112171/majority-of-gop-now-birthers.html

a majority... really? wow

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

Well, that just proves that a majority of republicans are brain dead.

Good to know.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:44 PM

My first reaction is, "What, who, how, why, or which is Newser?"
I never heard of it before. What is its orientation?

And the same question as to the author of the poll which is cited: Where is Public Policy Polling coming from? Who is behind it financially?

As everyone knows/should know, the validity of a poll is entirely dependent upon the polling pattern and the question set applied. I wouldn't unquestioningly accept the "findings" in this case, without more knowledge.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:50 PM

Who is Newser?
Irellevant.
Poll details?
Highly relevant.
Details here:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_US_0215.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:07 PM

You conduct a hundred polls which show 'X', and all it shows is how certain questions were answered by a few folks.

In this case, all it might mean is that a 'majority' of Republicans think that any doubts about Obama are worth cultivating. You can't tell how many really 'believe' the birther line... or even what they use as 'evidence'. Many have never gone beyond that batch of made up and...literally.... faked 'data' by that woman dentist...Orly Taitz. A brief review of HER history should cause one to wonder how ANY poll of devout Republicans on this matter could generate good statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 06:01 PM

YOU JUST CAN'T KEEP A GOOD CONSPIRACY THEORY DOWN.


TWITS! WORLD CLASS TWITS!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: curmudgeon
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 06:09 PM

NO MORE GUESTS IN BS!

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 06:31 PM

Jesus wept- there's no end to the fantasies these fuckwits can invent, is there?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:51 AM

No. It's simply a constitutional issue.

You have to abide by ALL the provisions of the constitution. If they can set this glaring precedent (have a non-citizen serve as president), then what's to stop the scrapping of the rest of the document?

As a UK outsider, I can't see why you did not ask any of the 'origin' questions about preceding Presidents that you are asking about this one. Were you personally demanding to see the birth certificiates of both Bushes? Nixon's? Truman? And it's a modern world - maybe we should really be carrying out DNA tests as well to make sure the people named on the certificate are actually the parents ...

So I see no reason for the different behaviour. Apart from the one glaringly obvious reason that you would deny, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:32 AM

There are crazy people in all countries. The worrying thing about the USA is that the crazy people appear to be not out on the fringe, but slap bang in the middle of the mainstream, virtually in control of the Republican Party.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:32 AM

But this is now a dead issue now that Obama has produced his birth certificate - isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:35 AM

You would think it is a dead issue, but apparently The Donald needs to "verify" the birth certificate...Oh and the academic transcripts from Occidental, Columbia and Harvard as well. Faaaar, from over.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:08 PM

And Ms Taitz reckons that the word 'African' would not have been used on a birth certificate in 1961.

You really couldn't make it up........

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

The Republicans seem to have no trouble making things up- in fact, they're rather good at it.

Subject: RE: BS: A birther in the Court
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:53 PM

And surely Obama's mother didn't come from the Caucasus?