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BS: BNP on question time
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Subject: BS: BNP on question time From: Tug the Cox Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:59 AM I think this happened last week ( I'm always out on Thursdays, most days actually). What happened? Did the other parties do ther decent thing and put up non-white panellists? Did the slimy Gtiffin take the opportunity to appear plausible, or was he shot down in flames? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Smedley Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:00 AM You haven't missed it: it's happening this week. Apparently Bonnie Greer, the black American writer/critic will be a fellow panellist. Ought to be interesting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Tug the Cox Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:22 AM Thanks, Smedley. Just received this from Hope not hate....thought it was funny that no reports had appeared!! Dear Jeff, Despite widespread opposition Nick Griffin will be on Question Time this Thursday. The BBC have made their decision - they are willing to let a leader of a fascist Party on their flagship show. Last week the BNP agreed to change its constitution for fear of being found guilty of having a racist and illegal membership policy. On Sunday, Griffin attacked and abused his fellow panelists Bonnie Greer and Baroness Warsi for not being white. And yet the BBC still allow him on. Griffin's presence is a stain on the BBC - and I know that you share my feelings of anger. So I think we need to make a stand. On Thursday afternoon we're going to the BBC to deliver the Question Time presenter, David Dimbleby, thousands of messages of hope from our supporters. Your stories, your experiences and your belief in an open and tolerant society will send the strongest possible rejection of the BNP's message of hate. You can send your message of hope here: http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/questiontime The BNP's goal is to divide us. It's to whip up fear and hatred in our communities and then exploit the anger that they've induced. But we don't have to accept their hatred. At a moment like this we need to rally together to send a message of defiance against the BNP. And Jeff, you're best placed to do this. So why did you oppose the racist BNP? Why you are proud to live in our open and tolerant society? Or quite simply, what message do you want to send Nick Griffin? Tell us here: http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/questiontime Whatever you write, whatever story you tell, your words will speak for the majority of Britons. And when thousands of us come together in this action we can send a unified message of hope to counter Griffin's fractured message of hate. Please join us in this moment - whether you write a single word or an entire essay we will take them all to the BBC and present them to David Dimbleby. We can't make the impact we need without you - please send a message now: your stories make our movement. http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/questiontime Best wishes, Nick |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: theleveller Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:27 AM Done it! Doubt if David will read it, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Fred McCormick Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:39 AM Tug, you're one jump ahead of me. The Leveller is right, there's no way that the moguls at QT will read all those emails. The sheer volume of protests should pull them up sharp though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: VirginiaTam Date: 20 Oct 09 - 02:56 PM done and sent request to half dozen friends |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:22 PM The BNP has already insulted BOTH non-"white" panellists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: GUEST Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:41 PM Too many BNP threads up here. Joe said one at a time. Please correct. Thanks
- Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: VirginiaTam Date: 20 Oct 09 - 04:19 PM sigh. Did he? How does one get the message out to send email to the Question Time programme? Could we change the title to BBC to give Nick Griffin airtime? If the original poster is willing. Why does "guest" make statement in cognito? If Joe said that, then fair enough. No need to hide behind mask to point it out. You are entitled to your opinion and say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Chris Green Date: 20 Oct 09 - 05:36 PM I'm not sure what to feel about this to be honest. When it comes to the BNP I hate the bastards and everything they stand for. But it seems to me that you either have free speech or you don't. If (as I understand it) the rules are that once you've obtained representation in the European Parliament, you're entitled to airtime on the BBC, it seems wrong to make one rule for the BNP and another for everyone else. I've seen members of other minority parties on QT over the years. Of course the cynic in me says that this is all about the BBC chasing ratings. Whatever it is, I hope the interviewer and the panel show more balls when talking to Griffin than that dosy mare on the radio did the other day when she was interviewing the pair of throwbacks from Hitler Youth! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: jeddy Date: 20 Oct 09 - 06:07 PM here here chris. you all know how i feel about the BNP. but if we are to fight facism, then we need to have free speech, we may dislike what they say, but they have a right to say it. if only they were truethful about what they are and if only they just talked instead of attacking people and using thug tatics. instead of keeping the BNP and their ilk underground, show them give them airtime. let the world see them for what they are. they are their own worst enemy and it won't be long before they 'sink' themselves. however, the panel needs to be made up of people who will not get angry. they need to keep a clear and calm head in order to show that every word the BNP says is a LIE. to counter every sentance, every agenda. to do this the BNP MUST have a platform to start with. moving something underground makes it harder to counter and harder to keep tabs on. i am looking forward to watching nick get trounced on thursday, public humiliation!!! good fun take care all jade x x x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Oct 09 - 06:19 PM Remember that old joke about Fritz and Paddy in the trenches? You can't shoot the enemy if you can't see it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: akenaton Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:18 PM Public humiliation? The real "public humiliation" is that people like Jack Straw and others, who lied to us over the Iraq War which caused the deaths of over a million people, are accepted on television as liberal democratic politicians. They continue to lie to us over the viability of our economic system and our role in Afghanistan. We accept the adoption of the War criminal Blair as proposed leader of the EU with hardly a murmur of dissent, yet waste hours talking and writing against a handful of perceived racists. Racism and sectarianism has existed for decades in our society and still exists....it is an unfortunate fact, but never the great danger to "democracy" that "liberals" claim it to be. If it were all to boil down to a vote for Blair or a vote for Mr Griffin, Blair would never get my vote. How many of the "liberals" on this forum have the balls to say the same? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Smokey. Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM If it were all to boil down to a vote for Blair or a vote for Mr Griffin, Blair would never get my vote. How many of the "liberals" on this forum have the balls to say the same? I'm not absolutely sure what a 'liberal' is, but personally I wouldn't vote for either of the twats.. I shall be watching on Thursday though - it'll be a great pleasure to see the blubbery oik humiliated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:53 PM Last time I looked Jack Straw wasn't a Liberal Democrat, but I take it that the dysfunctional Pharaoh above is using the words in a pejorative sense. I also note that he refers to "Blair" and "MR. Griffin" so I think we can tell what area of ancient Egypt he's coming from. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Tug the Cox Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:55 PM Humiliated he may well be. But if just a few of the dispossessed take his side, are swayed by his rhetoric and join his cause, he has a result. These guys are not interested in free speech, rational argument etc., only about influence. I'm afraid it may have been handed to them on a plate. The freedom of speech discourse is simply not appropriate in this context. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Smokey. Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:12 PM My faith in human nature may well be on the optimistic side, but if he repels more than he attracts, isn't that a good result? I'm all for letting him have his platform - freedom of speech is always a double-edged sword, but to deny it anyone is wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: jeddy Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:13 PM good point ake, but when this war was decided upon, i was not here, i assume that there was an uproar. people marched in protest here and in the US, it made no difference. how blair won another election after that i have no idea. however, the war in iraq and afganistan is not based on race, or skin tone, in fact it probably isn't even about weapons or honour. if you start a thread on this ake, i will happily talk about it there. you worry me sometimes ake, in that sometimes i just don't get your logic. blair or griffin? not sure. i can't stand either of them nor do i trust them. i suppose griffin is more see through. he says things are not about race but clearly they are. the BNP may well get a few more votes next time round, but if it makes others go out and vote for anyone else, doesn't matter who, they will in fact move further down the chart. if this programme moves even a thousand more get off their arses, then i think it will make a huge difference in the polls. the way forward for any party is education. alot more people are getting disinterested in who runs this country, maybe that should have been disheartened? so the more info the public have about who and what they are voting for can be no bad thing. sleep well all jade x x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Peace Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:15 PM "How many of the "liberals" on this forum have the balls to say the same?" I do. I'd vote for neither Blair nor Griffin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Oct 09 - 02:44 AM In my email, on the Hope not Hate thing, I also mentioned how disappointed I am that BBC Question Time would prostitute itself for the sake of ratings. The panel selection is something on the order of Big Brother House. Griffin is going to look like the poor downtrodden underdog next to erudite black women and that is likely to polarize more people to his cause. Bad call in my estimation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Stu Date: 21 Oct 09 - 03:34 AM "How many of the "liberals" on this forum have the balls to say the same?" Er, well 'liberals' is an imported Americanism and not really relevant in the context of British politics (as the liberals are well-meaning but largely irrelevant), but I'd vote for B.Liar (or preferably neither). I think the comparison is wrong however; although the tosser deserves to burn in hell for the immense misery and death his misguided and idiotic pretensions have visited on people worldwide he still did one thing no British Prime Minister has ever done and that is be instrumental in bringing real and lasting peace to the North of Ireland. Blair is a reprehensible character these days, but I'm willing to concede that before he was seduced by the right-wing he may have had honest intentions and his own principles. Which is far more than can be said for Nick Griffin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:03 AM The sheer volume of protests should pull them up sharp though. I doubt it. More people protesting goes with more attention goes with more viewers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Lox Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:24 AM "if you start a thread on this ake, i will happily talk about it there." You may be waiting a long time ... After Ake spent months going on about how noone talks about immigration, Keith started a thread about it. Did Ake contribute? No. Except to say "We should remember that we are all human beings, the labels hung on us are meaningless, just another trick to divide and "organise" society." Though I'm not clear about whether that applies to "liberals" or "liberal fascists". Saying you'd vote for Nick Griffin over Tony Blair is the kind of faux controversial claim that would suck all the credibility out of your commentary if there were any left, though I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that you would follow through on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Chris Green Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:52 AM Ake - if what you mean is that you'd rather see Griffin in power than Blair, I can only conclude that a) you don't have any knowledge of 20th century history or b) you're a loon. Are you really suggesting that a BNP government would be preferable to a New Labour one under Blair? And incidentally, I never voted for Blair or New Labour. I think they're vacuous, image-obsessed morons who (as you say) led the UK into an illegal and pointless war that caused thousands of deaths in order to make Bush look competent and disguise the fact that Islamic terrorism has been fed by Western ignorance and greed. But set against the crimes and excesses of the last extreme right-wing government in a major European country, I'd say Blair's don't even come close. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Leadfingers Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:59 AM Free Speech MEANS Free Speech - That means we have to let Griffin have his say . and hope that he digs a big nough hole to bury him and all his Cohorts ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: theleveller Date: 21 Oct 09 - 07:15 AM "If it were all to boil down to a vote for Blair or a vote for Mr Griffin, Blair would never get my vote. How many of the "liberals" on this forum have the balls to say the same? " Fortunately, it never did and never will, so why make such a stupid and vacuous statement? A spell in the real world might do you some good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Tug the Cox Date: 21 Oct 09 - 08:07 AM That means we have to let Griffin have his say but it doesn't mean that he has to be afforded a public platform.....at our expense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Richard Bridge Date: 21 Oct 09 - 08:56 AM Free speech never actually means free speech. Not even in the USA is there the right freely and falsely to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Owen Woodson Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:04 AM ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: McGrath of Harlow - PM Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:03 AM The sheer volume of protests should pull them up sharp though. I doubt it. More people protesting goes with more attention goes with more viewers. Oh aye? Then take a look at this news item from AOL. I've posted it in full, partly because I don't know whether non-AOL users would be able to access it, and partly to spare people's eyes from the ugliest picture of Nick Griffin I've ever seen. I thought at first he was mooning at the camera. The BBC's governing body was meeting to debate 11th-hour attempts to block British National Party leader Nick Griffin's appearance on Question Time The decision to invite Mr Griffin on to the panel has sparked fury among the public and politicians, with Wales Secretary Peter Hain among those who has written to the BBC Trust asking it to reconsider. Now a panel of BBC Trustees has been set up to examine the complaints to see whether they should act. It comes amid fears that the planned appearance could boost support for the party, as happened with France's far right party in the 1980s. A special "ad hoc" committee of Trustees will decide firstly whether it can look at the appeals, before potentially thrashing out whether they should be upheld or thrown out. There has been condemnation and debate surrounding Mr Griffin's appearance - the first time the BNP will have been represented on the programme panel - which has sparked a protest rally to be held in London. Mr Hain wrote to the BBC Trust, asking it to look again at the decision to allow the BNP to "the top table of UK politics" on the BBC1 show. He argued the party is currently illegal because it does not allow ethnic minorities to join. His letter to the Trust was a last resort after BBC director general Mark Thompson rejected his arguments. Some have argued putting the BNP up to public scrutiny could have the effect of damaging the party, but others have suggested it could boost interest. Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the Front National (FN), saw support for his party double overnight after being questioned on a leading French political programme in 1984. Dr Jim Shields, associate professor in French Studies at Warwick University, called the appearance "a real milestone" in his acceptability. Meanwhile, ex-army chiefs General Sir Mike Jackson and General Sir Richard Dannatt accused the BNP of "hijacking" military symbols for their own advantage. Mr Griffin sparked outrage by comparing the British generals to Nazi war criminals and claiming Winston Churchill would join the BNP if he was still alive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: jeddy Date: 21 Oct 09 - 01:53 PM i replied to the hope not hate email explaining why i would not be trying to get nick thrown off the programme. not be thick or anything but. if hilter had kept the shocking and terrible violence and murders in his own countries, would we have intervened? would there have been a war, if not a world war? like i said sorry to be thick. have a great night all jade x x x x |
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Subject: RE: The new leaked BNP membership list From: Azizi Date: 22 Oct 09 - 02:57 AM I have a number of questions about the BBC's Question Time program. I found this link to the show: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm But I'm still not sure about that show's format. Am I correct that there is more than one panelist interviewed by the show's moderators/hosts with the possiblility of additional questions from the studio audience? If so, who were the other panelists for that show with Nick Griffin? I recall reading that two of them were People of Color and that one of these panelist is an African American. Would a Mudcat member please post information about these panelists, including those two who are People of Color? Thanks. ** Also, I'm very curious about the response that the studio audience had to Nick Griffin on that show. Here's a viewer comment that was posted on that web page whose link I've gave above: "Isn't it telling that at the and of tonight's show, Jacqueline Smith got a bigger boo than Nick Griffin? I don't like either of them but it makes you think"... David Beck, Haywards Heath -snip- Who ia Jacqueline Smith and what is your take on why the studio audience may have booed her more than Nick Griffin? ** Also, if Question Time's format is a political debate, is it customary for studio audiences to boo or cheer those who are part of the debate? I ask this because in the United States, the moderators for televised debates always start by cautioning their studio audiences to be very quiet, and neither boo, cheer, or clap. My recollection is that the audiences usually adhere to these guidelines. Also, I don't recall television camera shots of the audience. Is this different in the UK? ** And of course, I'm interested in knowing about the reaction of Mudcat members to that particular Question Time program. If you are aware of any YouTube videos of that program, please post links to them. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: The new leaked BNP membership list From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Oct 09 - 03:28 AM Question Time's format is to have a politician from each of the 3 main parties and two other guests given questions submitted in advance by audience members but not previously given to panellists. The panel each offer an answer which the others can challenge.Audience members are invited to ask supplementary questions during the discussion and can and do clap, groan, jeer and boo. The debate is usually polite and audience response restrained. It is not a high ratings mass appeal programme. I like it. You should have it. |
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Subject: RE: The new leaked BNP membership list From: Tug the Cox Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:19 AM Azizi, I couldn't find the review you mention, but it suprises me, as the show has not ben on yet. You can watch it on your computer at the link you gave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Tug the Cox Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:28 AM Azizi, this was clipped from another thread On Sunday, Griffin attacked and abused his fellow panelists Bonnie Greer and Baroness Warsi for not being white. Bonnie Greer (born November 16, 1948) is a Chicago born playwright and critic resident in Britain. She studied theatre in Chicago with David Mamet and in New York with Elia Kazan.She is described as an African American author. Sayeeda Hussain Warsi, Baroness Warsi (born 28 March 1971) is a British politician for the Conservative Party and a lawyer. Lady Warsi is currently a member of the Shadow Cabinet as the Shadow Minister for Community Cohesion and Social Action. She was born in England to Pakistani parents. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:30 AM Looks like I closed the wrong thread. The other BNP thread had a lot of traffic early on and then fizzled, and then turned to discussing the "Question Time" matter. I moved the appropriate messages from the other thread over to this one. Carry on. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Old Vermin Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:35 AM In reply to Rich on the other thread : Just me being paranoid, Rich. Seen too many goose-chases on the 'net. My post of a few minutes later issued the corrected when I looked at the side's site rather than EFDSS. Point remains, I'm reluctant to add to Miss Spicer's workload, but do the EFDSS know that this guy's meant to be at C# House? Anyone - or have I got to? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:38 AM This YouTube'll give you an idea of the formula, though it's been edited to include only a single panelists comments: George Galloway on Question Time |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Azizi Date: 22 Oct 09 - 06:54 AM Thank you for your information about that show. When I found that link earlier this morning, there was a video of an young British Indian woman who was being interviewed by a host about her views of Nick Griffin being on the Question Time show. (She indicated that she supported the right of that party to be on the show because it had won two seats in the European Union, and she would have appeared on that show if asked to oppose Griffin. The featured viewer comment was as I posted. Here's the corrected quote: "Isn't it telling that at the end of tonight's show, Jacqueline Smith got a bigger boo than Nick Griffin? I don't like either of them but it makes you think"... David Beck, Haywards Heath -snip- If I understand you correctly and the Question Time program with Nick Griffin hasn't aired yet, I wonder how I saw that comment. I certainly didn't make it up. I don't even know who Jacqueline Smith is and I take it that "Haywards Heath" is a British town, but I've not heard of it before. Is that program televised live or is it pre-recored? If it is pre-recorded, maybe the television show featured that particular viewer quote to spark additional interest in the program. There's an entirely different page and featured viewer quote today at 6:45 AM ("Mudcat time"). |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Ruth Archer Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:14 AM Azizi: it's because, at the end of Question Time, they announce the following week's guests. I expect it was this announcement that got booed. Jacquiline Smith is an MP and former Home Secretary. She has been one of the most high profile MPs involved in the Parliamentary expenses scandal, which probably explains the booing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:16 AM The programme is always live. It comes from a different town each week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Smedley Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:40 AM Sorry to split hairs, but it isn't live. It is recorded a couple of hours before transmission, so although it is still topical, there are opportunities to edit it. The programme makers say that editing is rare and/or minor, and usually done for reasons of 'running time'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:40 AM Tonight's programme is being pre-recorded a few hours before broadcast. It is always prerecorded, but they are doing it earlier than they normally do this time, because they anticipate it will be a little "tenser" than usual and will require closer editorial attention... |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: GUEST,Spleen Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:41 AM Sorry, crossposted with Smedley. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Azizi Date: 22 Oct 09 - 07:50 AM Okay, thanks Ruth. I'm glad that there's an explanation for that viewer quote that I read. With regard to people in the USA can watch that BBC program on the internet, I thought I read somewhere that the BBC programs aren't available to Americans except on YouTube or some other video after the fact. ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: jeddy Date: 22 Oct 09 - 08:11 AM just watching loose women, where has this rumour come from that nick griffin is a 'very clever man' and a 'good orator'? every time i have heard him he sounds like a moron to me. there is usually something in there that makes my skin crawl, well i just have to look at him for that but you know what i mean. take care all jade x x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Fred McCormick Date: 22 Oct 09 - 08:35 AM Recording time is 17-30 hrs tonight. I know because I'll be demonstrating outside the BBC offices then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: jeddy Date: 22 Oct 09 - 09:03 AM good on ya fred!!!! please no eggs though, and please please be careful, you know how the BNP like to stick the boot in. lots of love me x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Fred McCormick Date: 22 Oct 09 - 10:10 AM Don't worry. I'm a big lad, and I won't be throwing any eggs. Terrible waste of food. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: Chris Green Date: 22 Oct 09 - 11:04 AM "nick griffin is a 'very clever man' and a 'good orator'" Compared to who, precisely? I've worn pants that were more intelligent and articulate than him! That said, it does say something about a) the generally low standards of public discourse and oratory these days and b) the mind-numbing vacuity of most daytime TV programmes. I suppose it shouldn't really be surprising that Griffin comes across as a witty and dazzling speaker to people who've been fed a constant diet of political soundbites and non-stories about non-entities getting pissed in nightclubs! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 09 - 11:27 AM To put the business about booing in context: When David Dimbleby was announcing future guests first up was the next week, and he mentioned Griffin, which got a good boo. Then he mentioned the following week and Jacqueline Smith's name came up - another boo. Then an announcement that John Sergeant, a former TV journalist who'd made some memorable appearances in Strictly Come Dancing, would be a guest, and everyone cheered - and Dimbleby mutters "this is getting like a pantomime", where that kind of audience participation is traditional. After the first boo it turns into a bit of a joke, |