BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?

Subject: BS: A folkie B&B? Ideas, please
From: Stower
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:51 AM

I am considering giving up my job to run a bed and breakfast in England or Wales, somewhere not reliant on the season, so not at a seaside, but somewhere with lots of natural trade, such as the peaks, the lakes or a walking destination in Wales.

I am at the very beginning of considering this. I aim to take business advice and financial advice, but are there any Mudcatters already in the b&b business who can give me first hand advice on any aspect of running a b&b - 'do's and 'don'ts', pitfalls to avoid, things to consider? Or are there any non-b&b-running 'Catters who can contribute what they like and dislike in a b&b?

If this gets off the ground, I aim to run it with folk themed weekends, involving instrument playing workshops, instrument-making workshops, dance weekends with ceilidhs, 'meet the artist' with gig weekends, all with accommodation and food provided and, of course, for a limited number of people and therefore much more intimate than the smallest festival and enabling a large element of personal tuition. Would this work, do you think?

Any contributions based on personal experience of the job, your personal likes/dislikes of b&bs, folkie ideas for a b&b, or reasons why my ideas are or are not viable, would be most welcome.

Thanks all.

Stower.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 12:03 PM

It may work. Martin and Danni W-R did it in his house in France (though I think he has now stopped) and Martin Simpson does occasional ones (Sheffield and France). Songwriting seemed to go down well as I remember. Lots of older folkies (baby boomers) coming to the age when they can afford this.   

Plenty of folkie people in the lakes, and welsh border country for starters. Peak district might be another good one, lots of folkies nearby in Sheffield and that area who wouldn't have to travel far!

The Scots might take to it too - not sure if anyone does it up there.

There may be grants from tourism people to help subsidise.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 01:12 PM

Martyn And Danny are now back in the UK. Their friend in France has taken it over, to teh same excellent standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 05:14 PM

That is good news!

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 05:39 PM

"Any 'Catters run a B&B?"

That would also be useful information to have for those of us might be thinking of going on holiday somewhere sometime.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 05:47 PM

Well it seemed like Bill Sables ran a BB for american Mudcaters visiting in England .. All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Stower
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:40 AM

Thanks all, so far.

Folkiedave: "There may be grants from tourism people to help subsidise." Yes, and possibly the Arts Council? Regional folk organisations? I wonder. Do you have any more info on this, Folkiedave, or a named person I could contact to discuss possibilities?

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 06:14 AM

Not really. And I suspect you would struggle to get funding from the Arts Council.

But it certainly happens:

http://www.torfaen.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/CouncilNews/2009/October/08-RDPGrantHelpsLocalBusiness.aspx

Have you thought about typing:

"Starting a Bed and Breakfast" into Google? There's books, articles and ideas in there. Better than Mudcat I would have thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 06:41 AM

We dont have a B & B, we have a stable yard where people rent stables and grazing, and I dont think its particular to the horse world but, there is nothing that brings you down to earth more quickley than having the general public on your private property.

There are some, by no means all, who are just unbelievably rude, demanding, ignorant, and bad mannered, who have no respect for others property or possessions. They also tell the most outrageous lies: Oh my dog is so clean and well behaved. Then you find he's chewed something and crapped everywhere.

Expect the very worst, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Good Luck. For every one ignorant git out there, there are 100 lovely characters who may become good friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 10:51 AM

Stower asked, 'Or are there any non-b&b-running 'Catters who can contribute what they like and dislike in a b&b?'

My husband and I have been to the UK and to Europe many times. We quickly stopped using b & b's. We disliked the b &b philosophy of 'You've had breakfast. Now get out till sundown.'

It's even worse that hardly anybody tells travellers that there is such a rule. No, the b & b industry just lets the naive innocent walk in and encounter a wall of hostility.

Another thing we disliked was having to inform owners that we wanted to take a shower. As if a shower was a rare and bizarre occurrence.

So we quickly promoted ourselves to the 'guesthouse' level of lodging and finally to hotels.
=======
If I were you, I would get a job in the hospitality industry for a while to learn the ropes and see if I liked it. The idea posted above of reading books on the topic is also a good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 11:13 AM

I'd have thought that "breakfast" implies that you shouldn't assume that you are welcome to hang around the place all day.

And it's a bit much to assume that your customs about stuff like showers are shared throughout the known universe. It's a bit world out there, and the fact that it varies is one of the reasons it's worth going to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 11:42 AM

One might not automatically understand particular customs in other countries.

Though if traveling abroad - and especially on the cheap as with hostels/B&B's/camping etc. - I guess the lesson is that it's probably wise to actively enquire as to the terms & conditions of any establishment one chooses to book in at.

B&B's are very popular with people wanting a lower cost, active weekend break in an historical city or area of natural beauty, which will naturally be the focus of the majority of ones time and energy. But they are possibly less appropriate for an extended, and more leisurely paced holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM

PS a comprehensive list of UK Catters providing B&B's/rooms/camping/gueshouses would be a great idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Stower
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 01:13 PM

Green Wellies, I am well aware at first hand of the depth of human ignorance and rudeness because of the job I currently do! It will come as no surprise, but I am ready for that when it comes. I don't imagine it will be more than a small minority, though. I expect it will depend, to some extent, on the clients I am aiming to attract. I am sure you're right, GW, "For every one ignorant git out there, there are 100 lovely characters who may become good friends."

Yes, books and web for info, of course, of course. Asking Mudcatters is an *addition* to that - and the other things I mentioned in my opening post - not a replacement for it. I wanted people's actual experiences and their own ideas for a folkie b&b - books and websites can't give me that. I am getting my financial and business advice elsewhere.   

Leeneia, I am sorry to read of your bad experiences and "wall of hostility". Here in Britain (are you in the USA?) we are aware of what a b&b is - a budget way to have a bed for the night and something to eat when you get up - and they therefore tend to be used by people with plans that involve being outdoors or elsewhere all day. Since 'we' all know this, I don't suppose a proprieter thinks it needs to be explained. A case of cultural misunderstanding, perhaps?

Thanks, all, so far.

What does anyone think of ideas for folk weekends (also art weekends) as in my original post? Would people come? Would YOU come?

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 01:52 PM

Oooh, would I go? Well maybe with *friends*, but not likely solo unless I were single (my fella isn't into folk). Otherwise I think the idea itself is rather attractive. If I were single and wanting a short social break away, yes I'd definitely do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 02:09 PM

Sound proof rooms would be a great idea, for the folkie snorers :-)

I suppose you could have some folk swingers events :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Stower
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 02:32 PM

Oh, Villan, you are so, so naughty ...

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 02:54 PM

By the way, this is another case of two countries divided by a common language; in at least my part of the U.S., a bed-and-breakfast is in general an especially romantic, well-appointed small inn, (usually quite a pricy one, too), not accommodations in someone's home. A kind of port-after-dinner, fireplace en-suite, hot tub on the deck, lovely antique furniture kind of place. So getting booted out after breakfast -- while quite reasonable for the type of accommodation you are actually describing -- is not quite what we tend to picture when we think of B&B.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: naughtyforty
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 04:00 PM

I nearly went into this business with my mother some years ago and bought a book about how to set up a B&B. If you PM me your address I will pop it in the post (once the strike is over of course!)

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:34 AM

We've been hoping to open our house up as a writers' retreat here in Wales, rather than a b&b, so that we would provide a good, large room with a desk and all meals. Been a bit side-tracked by Life with all its vicissitudes (this year has been particularly vicissitudinous) but I still think it's a good idea, although possibly not during a credit crunch! Any Mudcatters who would like to come and stay on this basis please PM me - we're well situated on the edge of a small town with good scenery within easy reach and industrial heritage on our doorstep as well.

Returning briefly to Leeneia's points - I've stayed in b&bs all over the UK and have only once been made to feel unwelcome (that was a place near Heathrow). Mostly no, you're not expected here to spend the daytime hours at the establishment and that's the difference between a b&b and a hotel or guesthouse, but that difference is generally shown in the price you pay. As to showers - never normally had a problem with those, either, so you must have been very unlucky or chosen the bargain basement form of b&b.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: maeve
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 06:21 AM

We stayed in B&Bs in Galashiels and Glasgow, Scotland during our honeymoon and were treated very well. In one in particular, arriving in the rain at night, we were greeted warmly, seated beside a fire and given hot tea and biccies. By the time we left the next day we felt we had real friends awaiting our return.

At a B&B on Barra, I arrived with food poisoning from a BritRail sandwich and spent two days in bed. My hostess checked on me daily, let me sleep, and when I was able to get up again served me her husband's portion of mushroom soup and beef to get me on the mend. Later in the day she played some tapes from the School of Scottish Studies a song collector guest had sent them, because I mentioned I was interested in such.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: open mike
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:24 PM

There were a couple of catters thru here a few years back..
on their way to Dunsmuir, CA. they had a place in northern
England, near Scotland, which was in a converted building..
perhaps an old church? I think they said something about
catering or self-catering...we played music at a coffee
house in chico, but for the life of me i can't remember
their names or mudcat nick names...Rose or Rosemary?
He was related to the Dunsmuir family....and they were
going to the town of Dunsmuir near here for a celebration
or dedication of an historic fountain. Does any of this
sound familiar to any one....the facts are fuzzy...so much
has happened since then..

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:28 PM

I think this should be above and not in BS

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: open mike
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:05 PM

ok, i found them...looking back thru my p.m. archives

Ian and Marilyn....Mifd was thier (her)mudcat "handle"
back in nov. of 2005 -- here was their post looking for nor cal spots

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=85602

Ian Dunsmuir & Marilyn Framrose were near Hexham or Chillingham, UK

I would be interested to see how they are and if they
still have the hotel-type accommodations they spoke of.

I see they played here:
Market Inn, Castlehill Rd, Ayr, Strathclyde, Scotland


One of Ayr's oldest pubs, the 4th Monday Folk Session is on every
4th Monday of the month. Generally a singing session but musicians welcome. Each month the first half features a 'guest' who then leads off the second half singaround. In recent months guests have included Norman Stewart, Bobby Robb, Mick West, Ian Dunsmuir & Marilyn Framrose. In May, on 23rd of the month, we have Heather Heywood as a fringe event for the 'Burns an a that' festival. www.burnsfestival.com
8pm every month upstairs in the Market Inn, Castlehill Rd, Ayr.

also they played at Chillingham Folk Club

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 12:44 AM

I respect The Villan's opinion, but I think it's good to have some rational and non-controversial things to talk about in the non-music part of the Forum. Certainly, there is mention of music in this thread, but I wouldn't call it a music thread.
Let's leave this thread where the thread originator put it - our general policy for handling borderline cases like this, is to leave it where it started.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Stower
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 01:57 PM

As I said in my opening post, I am near the beginning of considering this. Contributors have been very kind and thoughtful and I am grateful. I am now of the opinion that it is a definite plan. I am seeing a business director friend next week and will then arrange to see a bank (when my director friend has given me good advice).

Any business needs to have a speciality. I want weeks in the summer and weekends all year round to be full of music and art.

So ... any ideas for a name for this so far imaginary place? My working title is The Art House, but I'm sure you can come up with something better.

And ideas to add to prospective weekends below would be fab. My ideal house would have a 'conference room' where these gatherings can take place. I'd like to have all-in specialist weekends of ...

Meet The Artist / Musician - A weekend in the company of a painter, guitarist, etc., including workshops and a Saturday night concert, where a small audience get to know the tricks of that person's trade, their influences, inspirations, and come away with knowledge they can apply for themselves.

Tutored Weekends - Beginners, intermediate and advanced skills tuition weekends for painters, flower arrangers, creative writers, guitarists, fiddlers, concertina players, etc. (Not all on the same weekend!)

Ceilidh weekend - I've met lots of people who feel awkward at their first or nearly first ceilidh. A 'safe' and relaxed beginners' weekend to show them the ropes and give confidence, hiring somewhere local to practice and with a Saturday night (and Sunday afternoon?) ceilidh. Perhaps the same for other forms of social dance.

Any more to add? Would these ideas be popular enough to be successful, do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 02:18 PM

Storytelling weekends? Voice workshop weekends?

If you're running either of these, let me know - give us a job!

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM

Something like this http://www.thirtyfifty.co.uk/wine-tasting-course.asp?gclid=CJ37yY_83Z0CFU0B4wod_yRZMw

or this
http://www.schoolofartisanfood.org/coursedetail.aspx?ID=25

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Stower
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 11:56 AM

Thanks, Anne. Thanks, Villan. If - no, that is, WHEN - this gets off the ground, Anne, I'll give you a call.

Stower.

Subject: RE: BS: Any 'Catters run a B&B?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 12:36 PM

In Juneau, Alaska, I have not noticed that B&B's are notably cheaper than hotels/motels. But they are certainly more intimate and present a much greater opportunity for long term connections.

I have never owned my own but I did briefly run one for someone who had to leave on a family emergency. The expectation there was a relaxed breakfast hour, with most of the guests out of the house by noon. I say "most" because there were usually some who stayed in, chatting.

No other meal was served but I baked goodies and had them plus fruit on the sideboard throughout the evening.

it was fun. Mostly. However, an Alaskan legislative aide stayed there who was romantically involved with a married Alaskan Senator.

A couple of years later she shot and killed a *differnt* Senator, injured his wife then killed herself.

So, there is that. :)