BS: shooting at Texas army base

Subject: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:38 PM

So far 12 dead, 31 wounded at Ft. Hood, TX.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/11/05/texas-san-antonio.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091105/ts_nm/us_texas_shooting
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5A454F20091105

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: sing4peace
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:45 PM

The massacre at Ft. Hood in Texas is on my mind and heavy in my heart. To all victims and their families - prayers for healing and courage as the questions emerge. Guide us all to bring light into the darkness.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:56 PM

Oh my god.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:01 PM

First reports claim the shooter is an army psychiatrist. A terrorist attack? Or sheer bedlam?

Prayers for those injured and killed and their families.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Alice
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:12 PM

I've been hearing the news updates off and on this afternoon since the event happened.

Now hearing about who the shooter was.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:28 PM

I read he specialised in treating others with PTSD. This is terrible. I despair of a world which teaches killing as a way to attain peace. May the victims and their families, including his, find some way through this.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:30 PM

Major Malik Nadal Hasan, a psychiatrist, was the suspected/accused shooter.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
he also died at the scene.
the death toll has now risen to 13

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:48 PM

......geeziz...............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: skipy
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:53 PM

Awful, my thoughts to the famillies & those who saw this happen

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:17 PM

"Major Malik Nadal Hasan"?

Well, this will certainly give certain people in the military or the U.S. Congress the excuse they've been looking for to target investigations on any American with a Moslem name. I hope not but it's certainly happened before.

Very sad.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:41 PM

He was being deployed again and had been working with PTSD troopThere is so much yet to learn and all but considering the number of PTSD victims of these two "wars" and the 75 suicides at Hood since '03.........My advice would be to get the fuck out!

Afghanistan is another VietNam and its obvious we haven't learned jack shit. Jesus Christ.........There's a general demanding more troops with which he can "win" and has no idea what a win would look like nor how long it might take or if he might not need even more after the next batch. These poor guys are being killed and maimed daily for no reason and General "Ghost of Westmoreland" thinks he can beat a country at their own game on their own soil.........

HELLO??? Doesn't this sound even vaguely familiar?


What this thing needs to point up is that we need to get out!

Period.

Its a quagmire which will sink this country.


Get out.......Get out now.............

This is the change I voted for...........get out......


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:09 PM

I have to agree with Spaw. I fear that the military of today is thinking in terms best used during WW2. That you win a war by gaining ground and holding it. And it's not that kind of war.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:14 PM

yes -- the person who i heard this news from added his description..the shooter had a (pardon the language)
"raghead name" which does add a "terrorism" element
to this incident...Yes, he was an american soldier, but
was he an american citizen? Perhaps his work for 6 years
at an army medical hospital had exposed him to horrors
he was unable to overcome...Walter Reed has had scandals
about treatment of injured and disabled soldiers from
the mid-east wars.

One journalist commented that the army used to employ 1
psychiatrist/psycholoigist for each 350 soldiers...
now it is more like 700 to one...

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:21 PM

"the shooter had a (pardon the language)..."

Why even USE that word? It is easy to refer to the man without resorting to such words...

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:21 PM

Not that it should matter, but he was an American citizen, born in Virginia of parents originally from Jordan and was described as a devout Muslim. ON MSNBC, his cousin said he didn't like shooting guns, didn't even like going to the shooting range and had come to despise and oppose the war.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:50 PM

FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) -- A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 12 people and left 31 wounded, Army officials said.

Authorities said immediately after the shootings that they had killed the suspected shooter, but later in the evening they recanted and said that he was alive and in stable condition at a hospital, watched by a guard.

"His death is not imminent," said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood. He offered little explanation for the mistake, other than to say there was confusion at the hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:56 PM

"...he was an American citizen, born in Virginia of parents originally from Jordan and was described as a devout Muslim."

                Yes, religion is a very bad thing!

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:58 PM

From the AP:

...Retired Army Col. Terry Lee told Fox News that he worked with Hasan, who had hoped Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.

Hasan was single with no children. He was born in Virginia and graduated from Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. He did his internship, residency and a fellowship at Walter Reed.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:08 PM

Another thread about events that are in the news. Didn't Joe just talk about that recently? What the heck is the point?

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:16 PM

the point is..that there are several threads here,
(current threads are about pedophilia, election,
polygamist colony raid, all topics from the news)
in the area designed for us all to share information,
feelings, opinions, discussion about things non-musical.

apparently 15 or so people felt ok about posting here
either news they had or reactions to the news...

I think this list provides a service to us in that way..
allowing us to be able to interact with others and
share opinions...and sentiments, and insights, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:49 PM

If the guy didn't want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan why didn't he just shoot off his big toe like the slackers used to do?

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Janie
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:55 PM

A tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:38 AM

"I despair of a world which teaches killing as a way to attain peace. "


Got it in one, kat. I agree 100%.

This, along with our 5 soldiers from the UK killed by an Afghan policeman, is a huge wake up call for our so called leaders.

It is way overdue that this senseless situation was brought to an end.

I cannot even go there, starting to think how their families must all be feeling...terrible...

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:54 AM

"ON MSNBC, his cousin said he didn't like shooting guns, didn't even like going to the shooting range and had come to despise and oppose the war."

So, I have to ask - WTF was he in the army?

And his religion has f**k-all to do with this - people from all religions and NO RELIGION kill other people. It's not a religious thing, it's a people thing.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:13 AM

Yes,but the logic of the implication is unavoidable ! I mean,what do you do when you have several devout Muslim soldiers in your team,and you announce that you are going to bomb Mecca ?? Ask them to help you to plan the Operation ?? Get real !! I mean,devout Muslims are allowed to join the US Army ??? I just CANNOT believe it !!Where are they now ??----in the Pentagon? Fort Knox? Running missile silos ? In charge of chemical weapons ? It's frightening. I mean REALLY frightening.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:27 AM

It's about as hypothetical as planning to flatten Jerusalem or Rome, the fact you get so excited and apparently upset is frightening.

Why wouldn't there be room for any and all religion in your army?

Some reports have it he was hassled about his religion and finally snapped, consider that in the light of your own attitude. Or maybe wait until more is known about the what and why of the whole affair.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:28 AM

Ah,he is a devout Muslim about to be sent out to a Muslim country to kill Muslims,what do you expect ?

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:32 AM

Devout?????? I'm a devout dulce de leche and bife eater!!

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:38 AM

Never fear, we'll be hearing much more about what may have motivated Major Malik Nadal Hasan to open fire and kill and wound so many soldiers at Fort Hood. However, I have my doubts how much we'll learn about his experience in the army as a devout Muslem, and whatever harassment he received from other soldiers for his name, faith and beliefs. Nothing he experienced in my opinion justified his murderous actions but it could help explain what drove him to commit them.

Perhaps it was the final "F##K you!" that drove him over the edge. We might think about "that" before we post to threads such as this.

It is ironic that he served his residency at Walter Reed hospital counseling trauma victims from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:56 AM

Tragic. On so many levels.
RIP

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:59 AM

I agree Sinsull .... a human tragedy at all levels

RIP

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:59 AM

"Some reports have it he was hassled about his religion and finally snapped,..."

                   Too bad he didn't get into some kind of a 12 step program and recover.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 10:03 AM

"At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke to The AP on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

The FBI, local police and other agencies searched Hasan's apartment Thursday night after evacuating the complex in Killeen, said city spokeswoman Hilary Shine. She referred questions about what was found to the FBI. The FBI in Dallas referred questions to a spokesman who was not immediately available early Friday morning."


What were they waiting for? Wouldn't Homeland Security jump on htreats like these?

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

Suppose, then, that the stress on him had to do with his being, by his own nature, a pacifistic sort and a Muslim. And, in complete contradiction to these ways of being, about to be shipped off to Iraq where his fellow Americans are essentially supporting war-like action against fellow believers. It is understandable that this conflict in goals could cause a lot of stress, such that waking up in themorning could be an awful thing each day.

But if this guy was a trained psychiatrist, how do you account for his completely insane reaction to the stress? Either psychiatry as he was trained in it is a completely bogus subject, which is possible, or something else is going on. If he had a bunch of false data from his psychiatric training, it is possible that just made things worse. Of course, I am operating on the supposition that seeing things clearly, with understanding, reduces stress, which I take as a truism.

A

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Arkie
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

This is indeed a tragedy and a complicated one. As a psychiatrist I would doubt he would be on a battlefield or behind a gun shooting at a fellow Muslem. But Sunnis kill Shites and vice versa so it is not unheard of for a Muslem to kill another Muslem. I suspect this is being done on a regular basis in Afghanistan. Hasan is not the first person about to be deployed to go off the deep end. War has terrible consequences on the home front as well as the battlefield.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:22 AM

We have devout muslims in the British Army.
I know some.
They serve in Afghanistan.
So far, no problems.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

We had devout Catholics, I am sure, who had no problem going to war and killing other Catholics who served under Hitler. I am sure there were other Protestants, too. Just being a Muslim makes him no different than any one else who is trained to go kill. However, like some conscientious objectors, he may have been very conflicted about being sent there and, from what I read, he was doing everything he could, according to the rules, to keep form being sent over.

Finally, as he specialized in treating those with PTSD, one might assume he is not a super-human and may have just been so horrified at what he heard, every day at work, and tried to help others through such horrors, that he snapped. It is possible, folks. Healers have a very fine line to walk to keep the maladies of their clients from overwhelming them; some are more able to do so than others. It is a profound tragedy that he apparently was not one of those.

May Peace Profound prevail,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:56 AM

Didn't something similar happen in a US army Camp in Saudi or Iraq
on one of the very first days of the War, possibly a Lieutenant, or a doctor ?
Sorry, I forget the details but do remember a little of the initial news reports at that time.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM

The shooter is in fact still alive, but his death was initially reported in the confusion. And another person has died, bringing the death toll to 13.

There are lots of jobs in the military branches that are filled by people who are not soldiers. This man was apparently one of them. He snapped, and his religion shouldn't be a factor. But I'm sure some people will make it one.

The news yesterday could say very little because the army folks kept a lid on most of it. The reporters around Scott and White (in Temple, east of Killeen by about 40 miles) weren't able to get much more information.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM

Why discuss his religion or his training as a psychiatrist in the context of his killing spree? He was born in Virginia we have learned.

Wolfgang (not serious)

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM

Let's get ALL of the Muslims out of the army. ALL armies. Then in rapid order we can remove the Christians, Jews, Buddists, Hindus, Athiests, and followers of the Flying Spagetti Monster. Then we'll be left without anyone in our armies, navy, air forces and marines.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:39 PM

A gunman has reportly shot 8 people from a highrise in Orlando Fla.

All hell is breaking loose.

we live in a violent society

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:39 PM

Having him alive will certainly help all involved to find out a great deal more about why this happened.

My initial response:

If he had no wife or children he was definitely unsupported in terms of stress management with no intimates monitoring his mental health.

Something about the army's management of psychiatric personnel is seriously lacking: poor screening, little followup on poor evaluations of performance, unwillingness to consider the efficacy of having a Muslim psychiatrist involved in helping soldiers in a war zone where the Muslim religion is a major issue...

So sorry this has happened. My heart goes out to those involved.

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:45 PM

"Cone said wounded first responder Sgt. Kimberly Munley, who exchanged gunfire with Hasan and managed to shoot him four times despite being shot herself, put a stop to the carnage with her quick thinking and willingness to go head-to-head with the gun-wielding officer.

"She was quite effective, one of our most impressive young policemen," Cone said. "She walked up and basically engaged him. I think, certainly, this could've been far worse."

Cone said Munley spent Thursday night calling her fellow co-workers from her hospital bed to make sure everyone was OK.

Cone did not want to comment on Hasan today but said, "I'm not surprised. ... I think it'll come out as we dig into this ... what the situation is."

Hasan, who was reportedly upset about an upcoming deployment to Iraq, had been disciplined in the past for preaching to his patients about his Muslim faith. "

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:21 PM

a link recently sent to me -- "Speaking of Faith"
http://blog.speakingoffaith.org/post/235062164/fort-hood-has-enough-victims-already

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: bobad
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:25 PM

"Why discuss his religion or his training as a psychiatrist in the context of his killing spree?"

An indication that religion may be implicated in his motivation:

"Soldiers who witnessed the rampage reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" - an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" - before opening fire, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan made the comment before the shooting spree."

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM

IMHO .... he just cracked.

It could happen to anyone, of any religeon, of any race, of any rank, of any position held in the military.

The news media, and society as a whole just wants to find some dramatic issue such as race in this tragic incident ... and in doing so just makes the whole thing even more tragic.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: open mike
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

terrible and sad....
and now Orlando,too.
I think that incident
should have a seperate
thread...

Subject: RE: BS: shooting at Texas army base
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:43 PM

I should also add ...

What was that quote from some current general in the U.S. army ... "the military is a war, American society isn't'

How long can the personnel serving in the military keep on going with 2 wars and 2 wars going on for such a long, long time.

The infrastructure is not in place or how can any infrastructure sustain the mental damage and wear that is going on in the minds of these people.

Forget religion ... the reasoning can be found written on the walls of every military base found in the U.S. and in Irag and the Afghani ... and more so at every military hospital in Germany and the U.S.

biLL