Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?

Subject: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:23 AM

Whilst talking to one of my WEA students today, the subject of the Temperance Movement cropped up. He said that Wild Rover was actually a song that was widely used at temperance meetings, and some of the information on previous threads on this song seems to back this up.

It does seem to make sense when you listen to the lyrics about a reformed drinker and general waster. If this is so, are our normal boozy renditions of the song not really in keeping with its tradition.

Should we sing it sober?

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: IanC
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM

Well, of course it was a perfectly sober song until The Dubliner's got it off of "This Singing Island" so its history is still mainly that way.

I think it's a very nice song, much abused.

:-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:35 AM

If you want it to be intelligible to the listener than sing it sober. The Irish have been stereotyped for so long as victims of the "Irish Curse" that it make sense for this to be reversed. The cartoon of the fighting and drinking Irishman has been another form of
cultural stereotyping as bad as the watermelon eating "negro".

I would personally prefer to hear Irish songs sung sober as they are generally better sung
this way with nicer voices. The bawling ranting voice of an alcoholic bar room singer has become an irritant in the dissemination of Irish music.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:03 PM

It isn't Irish, and it predates the temperance movement - it dates from the late 17th century, and was written by a puritanical Londoner who would have been horrified at the idea of his song being adopted as an anthem by drunken Papists.

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:12 PM

'The Irish have been stereotyped for so long as victims of the "Irish Curse" that it make sense for this to be reversed. The cartoon of the fighting and drinking Irishman has been another form of
cultural stereotyping as bad as the watermelon eating "negro".'


Maybe read a few statistics at Alcohol Ireland ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM

If you are being paid as a performer , then what ever you are doing you should be Sober ! If I booked an act and getting drunk was part of the show , they would be out of the door !

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:59 PM

Peter, these stats could be applied to many countries in the world. To single out the Irish
is unfair.

Jack, it's Irish now. It's sung throughout Ireland in the pubs and associated with Irish singers, not temperance or English singers. It is through Irish singers that I learned and sung the song on numerous Saint Paddy's Day events.

It's origins depict what happens to a folk song when it goes through permutations and variants. It was interesting to hear about it's beginnings though and I thank you for the information.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM

I presume the two verses dealing with the pub landlady were not included in the original song then. They wouldn't seem to jibe with this being written by a puritanical Londoner or adopted by the temperance movement!

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:06 PM

The song is incomplete!
We need a template to show us how a drunken sot can 'spend all (His) money on whiskey and beer' and also accumulate 'gold in great store!

I'd be into that.

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:32 AM

[i]Peter, these stats could be applied to many countries in the world. To single out the Irish
is unfair.[/i]

You missed the bit about Ireland having the highest alcohol consumption in Europe? The bit about in UK adn US societies those with Irish background having a significantly higher ranking in the alcoholism stakes?

Seriously, even within Ireland drink is recognised as a serious problem for society, more serious and endemic than in most other countries. And drinking and fighting? When did you last roam the streets of Ireland around closing time?

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:04 AM

...or Glasgow, for that matter!

The song is similar in some ways to 'Nancy Whisky' (The Calton Weaver)...

I think the opening post wasn't directed at performers as such, but at groups of people in, say, a singaround, where imbibing is occasionally somewhat excessive!

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: breezy
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:21 AM

Gurney

Surely he is returning with gold because he stopped wasting it on drink.

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:35 AM

You don't ' buy ' drink, you only rent it.

Fact is we shouldn't sing The Wild Rover at all, it's bloody awful.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:45 AM

"it's Irish now. It's sung throughout Ireland in the pubs and associated with Irish singers, not temperance or English singers. It is through Irish singers that I learned and sung the song on numerous Saint Paddy's Day events."

Stringsinger, it's only your experience which leads you to associate it with Irish singers. My experience is different - I'm English, live in England, and so I've mainly heard it sung by English singers. It's probably the one folk song that many people know.

It may be popular in Ireland, but it's also popular elsewhere. It's only the folkies (English and Irish alike) who tend to shun it. It's therefore incorrect to accuse it of cultural stereotyping about the Irish. On the other hand, if the cap fits...

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:47 AM

"Fact is we shouldn't sing The Wild Rover at all, it's bloody awful."
Only when it's sung by drunks.
Suggest you look out the Mary Ann Carolan - Pat Usher version to hear it done with sensitivity
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 11:10 AM

I don't know if the song is popular in Ireland, I surely never get to hear it, but then I lead a sheltered life. My son learned it in National School though when he was ten, much to my surprise (he got a few nice ones too though anything from 'Dear Old Miltown Malbay' to 'Bean Phaidin').

Subject: RE: Origins: Should we sing the Wild Rover sober?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:40 PM

Most of Britain now associates it with Ireland because it has been used frequently on tv to advertise Irish products. Ironically due to this the chorus has now become a staple tune on the football terraces in England.
       'And it's------ -------
       ------ --------it is
       We're the finest team the world has ever seen.'