BS: Film : Avatar

Subject: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:09 PM

I thought the basic storyline was a little trite. But the special effects and action were great. The art direction in general was quite innovative. Has anyone else seen it yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:26 PM

I'm not sure I'm up to another genocide movie, even if the special effects are great.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:04 PM

I heard Howie Movshovitz say it was the worst, most trite movie he'd ever seen, then another one on NPR, later, RAVED about it. I won't watch apocalyptic movies, either.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:08 PM

Roger Ebert raves about it too if that means anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 06:39 PM

n the new blockbuster Avatar, humans visit the habitable - and inhabited - alien moon called Pandora. Life-bearing moons like Pandora or the Star Wars forest moon of Endor are a staple of science fiction. With NASA's Kepler mission showing the potential to detect Earth-sized objects, habitable moons may soon become science fact. If we find them nearby, a new paper by Smithsonian astronomer Lisa Kaltenegger shows that the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) will be able to study their atmospheres and detect key gases like carbon dioxide, oxygen, and water vapor.

"If Pandora existed, we potentially could detect it and study its atmosphere in the next decade," said Lisa Kaltenegger of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA).
So far, planet searches have spotted hundreds of Jupiter-sized objects in a range of orbits. Gas giants, while easier to detect, could not serve as homes for life as we know it. However, scientists have speculated whether a rocky moon orbiting a gas giant could be life-friendly, if that planet orbited within the star's habitable zone (the region warm enough for liquid water to exist).

"All of the gas giant planets in our solar system have rocky and icy moons," said Kaltenegger. "That raises the possibility that alien Jupiters will also have moons. Some of those may be Earth-sized and able to hold onto an atmosphere."
Kepler looks for planets that cross in front of their host stars, which creates a mini-eclipse and dims the star by a small but detectable amount. Such a transit lasts only hours and requires exact alignment of star and planet along our line of sight. Kepler will examine thousands of stars to find a few with transiting worlds.

Once they have found an alien Jupiter, astronomers can look for orbiting moons, or exomoons. A moon's gravity would tug on the planet and either speed or slow its transit, depending on whether the moon leads or trails the planet. The resulting transit duration variations would indicate the moon's existence.
Once a moon is found, the next obvious question would be: Does it have an atmosphere? If it does, those gases will absorb a fraction of the star's light during the transit, leaving a tiny, telltale fingerprint to the atmosphere's composition.
The signal is strongest for large worlds with hot, puffy atmospheres, but an Earth-sized moon could be studied if conditions are just right. For example, the separation of moon and planet needs to be large enough that we could catch just the moon in transit, while its planet is off to one side of the star.

Kaltenegger calculated what conditions are best for examining the atmospheres of alien moons. She found that alpha Centauri A, the system featured in Avatar, would be an excellent target.

"Alpha Centauri A is a bright, nearby star very similar to our Sun, so it gives us a strong signal" Kaltenegger explained. "You would only need a handful of transits to find water, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and methane on an Earth-like moon such as Pandora."
"If the Avatar movie is right in its vision, we could characterize that moon with JWST in the near future," she added.

While alpha Centauri A offers tantalizing possibilities, small, dim, red dwarf stars are better targets in the hunt for habitable planets or moons. The habitable zone for a red dwarf is closer to the star, which increases the probability of a transit. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 02:48 AM

Amos,
Errrr...wow! That's deep.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 12:22 PM

As best I can tell, its more insurgency then genocide.

Carol want to see it because of the groundbreaking tech.
It will be after Christmas before we can go.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 01:35 PM

I saw it last night with a friend half my age who didn't like it either. What follows is a slightly franker version of what I posted to imdb. I don't think it has any plot spoilers (that would be impossible as the plot is a retread of the 'evil technos on innocent savages' theme), but I refer to peculiarities of the movie:

In some ways this movie is trying to be an adult version of Ferngully
The Last Rainforest. The part of the world inhabited by these
creatures, the 'moldy h icans' is like a director's wet dream of Eden,
only with attractively plant draped mountains that float (instead of bolting into
space). Meanwhile the inhabitants are a wide range of large or
stretched versions of creatures we are familiar with: Big big bugs or
flying reptiles.

It is a concept flick- man through technology transmits mind into
fabricated creature that can live among the intelligent kind of its
homeworld. The homeworld has something we (evil humans) want. Humans cannot live on
planet but we want a precious material which defies gravity, baldly
called unobtainium. The aliens are blue, and look (pick one) like
elongated supermodels (every one of them) or cat people with no fur or
whiskers. Either way you get wide faces and big yellow eyes right off
those 70s paintings on black velvet. I forgot to mention pouty lips.
Somewhere there must be a sociologists thesis on what are the elements
of face and body type that denote attractiveness while deforming other
characteristics. The one possibly somewhat original idea is that the
intelligent social aliens have tails, at the end of which are exposed
nerve fibers that can bond with significantly useful critters to ride,
such as a reptilian eyed large flyer, or other critters where the nerve
endings might come from other parts of their bodies like a tail to head
mind-meld.

I do not recall any of these sharp toothed creatures eating or any
significant blood flow from anything. Even the roots of the trees are
nerve endings according to the Sigourney Weaver character. Meanwhile,
there are no latrines, these natives apparently wander around the
vertical environment making nerve contact with wondrous beings but
don't need to eat, shit, raise children, set broken bones, sign
contracts, clear leafmold, or establish a government. They don't
apparently make music unless they are all arrayed in a large pattern
helping the roots save someone's life or convert them to alienhood.
It's like woodstock without the rain, the mud, or for that matter, the
music. The movie soundtrack was by James Horner who seemed to channel
tangerine dream at times, and John Williams at other times. So
sometimes the music was spacy, and other times it was starwars.

It goes on for 2 and a half hours and is excruciatingly unbelievable on
its own terms. More than the ten bucks, it's the 2 and a half hours
I'll never get back and the pained look I could feel on my face as the
bad guys were made to look really bad, driving bulldozers ten stories
high or trying to destroy an especially important part of the fiber
tree of life.

If you loved the self-righteous extermination of the environment to
make a point such as "On Dangerous Ground" where the good guys blow up
an arctic oil refinery in order to promote environmentalism, this film
may resonate with you.

Personally, I think putting the ten dollars to a meal with a lot of
fiber in it would have had more agreeable results with a better end
product.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Lox
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:30 PM

Amos,

Wouldn't there be a problem for survival on such a planet even if it did have the right atmosphere as a result of the orbit of the moon round the planet and the possibility of extended periods of time when the moon were shielded from the light of its star by ht eplanet it orbits ...

... not to mention, that here on earth, the angle of the poles means that we have hot summers and cold winters. A moon orbiting a planet would alternate between being much closer at one point in its orbit and significantly fyrther away and hidden from the star at another point.

Wouldn't this result in wildly fluctuating temperatures?

And finally, would a panet that size orbit close enough to a star for its moons to be warm enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Lox
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:36 PM

"Wouldn't there be a problem for survival on such a planet"

I mean such a moon ...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM

If there was water and air on our moon it would be close enough to the sun. Wouldn't it? The average distance from the sun would be the same as Earth's with a fluctuation of just half a million miles due to the orbiting of the earth. And the trees and natives could grow very very tall due to 1/6th gravity.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 05:01 PM

Avatar - "Dances With Smurfs"

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 07:20 PM

They should have made them look more like hamsters.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 11:15 AM

I saw it today - in 3D. It's certainly a treat for the eyes!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 12:03 PM

We saw it in 3D on an IMAX big screen. Pretty amazing, visually speaking. For an action film, it was long enough to develop the story a bit. But, you're right, they couldn't fit all the details in, and the good guys and bad guys were pretty black and white. Entertaining, but I didn't find myself emotionally involved (something I can be sucked into pretty easily).

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 01:07 PM

We saw it a couple of days ago. JtS and my son both think it may be the best movie they've ever seen. My son has a fine arts degree in film. I loved it also. I don't care about whether or not it was believable. I don't care whether or not it includes all of the details of the lives of the creatures. I see it as a fantasy rather than science fiction, and it's got enough of what it needs to work in that genre. It was also the first movie I've ever seen in which I didn't mind the fighting at all. And genocide is averted in this movie, so it's not a genocide story. For those who tend to root for the indigenes (like me), it's a very satisfying movie. And very beautiful to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:00 PM

It seems to have got geeks, nerds and techno-types frothing with excitement, which is usually a bad sign for me. Å friend who has seen it gave it 10 out of 10 for the visual effects and 0 out of 10 for acting and plot. On balance, I think I'll give it a miss.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Becca72
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:27 PM

I want to see it but I'm concerned about going...I definitely can't see it in 3D or IMAX because I get motion sickness VERY easily and I'm concerned it will cause a migraine. Anyone with similar issues who can give a report?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:39 PM

I get motion sickness and migraines very easily from certain visual stimuli, and this 3D technology didn't bother me at all. I was concerned that it would. I didn't see it in IMAX, though. I did get motion sickness from a movie I saw in IMAX once, when it looked like I was in a plane coming in for a landing. We're thinking about going to see it at the IMAX in Myrtle Beach at some point, so I if we do, I'll find out if it gives me motion sickness.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:43 PM

I thought that the acting was quite good, though much of the body language was computer generated and had no problem at all with the plot.

There was no genocide even attempted or considered. There were two battles over two specific small sectors of the planet.

It is a sci-fi movie, and not the most "realistic" but it is exceedingly well made and where Cameron chose to be unrealistic, it was to further the visual spectacle, which was beyond groundbreaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Becca72
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, Carol!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 05:51 PM

Genocide was implied. A lot of things were hinted at, there were a lot of other films suggested by various aspects of the plot, everything from Harry Potter to Dances With Wolves and more than a passing nod to Heart of Darkness.

A lot of people will be able to find a lot to talk about in that film. I went last week, and because I missed the first few minutes (people should decide what film they want to see BEFORE they're standing in a big gob of people at the ticket window) I hung around and went back in to watch the beginning. And stayed.

Visually this film is astonishing. I heard an interview with Cameron (Fresh Air, I think) and he said the software and technology are open for other filmmakers to use and they had others come in and watch. They want to see this move forward. It was the most visually stunning film I've ever seen. I suspect if the story had been too convoluted, it would have been too difficult to follow because there was simply so much to look at and think about as far as the world they created and how it all looked.

In a Darwinian sense, there is an evolutionary presence in the film, as you see the elongated characteristics and the sensor organs on many creatures, suggesting the same kind of evolution as on earth (where most creatures are bilateral, two eyes, ears, one mouth, two lungs, pairs of legs, etc. They had to be recognizable to the humans watching to bring engagement to the story. And the seeds of the sacred tree, looking like jelly fish (with no brain, no motive other than existence here on earth, and there, the "purest" form they recognized) acting the role that butterflies might in a film set in a wild place on Earth.

The story was a very respectable mystery, with all of the players introduced along the way, including some red herrings, and the end made sense because of those red herrings. Bad guys who weren't really bad guys, they were predators in the system who the newcomer wanted to obliterate but the locals knew were an important part of the system (Aldo Leopold's "Thinking Like a Mountain" essay comes to mind).

The complaints about the American Indian aspect is a typical American response--this could represent indigenous people anywhere on the planet, not just here in the U.S. or North America. The complaint that the "hero" is not from that planet (he's the fantasy equivalent of a halfblood), that he is more like the Costner character from "Dances With Wolves" is bound to come up. But you don't have to look far to see that codes were being cracked in both directions, and that narrative stance of the main character was as marginal a protagonist as most viewers will have identified with in a long time.

Having muddied the waters a bit, I hope people will go with minds open and enjoy the spectacle of it, the art of it, and the story at whatever level makes you comfortable. It is a remarkable turning point in the business and art of film making. You might want to be able to look back later and tell your kids that you were there.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 07:16 PM

A couple of days after seeing Avatar I was in an exercise room with different vids playing on the wall and one of them was Wizard of Oz. I couldn't help but make the comparison between the technology change in 70 years versus the need of a good story, good acting, good emoters. I thought Wizard had it all over Avatar. Even in the world of effects the imagination was greater. The term 'winged monkeys' has made it into common parlance and I doubt me that flying lizards will have the same cachet in even one year. As for the storyline, Wizard has one. Avatar's bad guys good guys was a setup akin to Mighty Ducks. The movie bludgeons one into rooting for the gentle blue people and sets us up to expect them to be decimated by a technological juggernaut except somehow we know there will be a last second comepuppance where the Indians are able to defeat the cavalry.

As my right wing co-workers came in this morning from seeing the film, I was intrigued that many of them liked it as a movie. I teased them a bit, with "You know that was an extreme left wing tree-hugger plot and you were paying Hollywood elitists who underwrite Obama and the whole left wing conspriacy, including gun control, don't you?"

Blinking response. "It was a movie!"

Two nights ago I got to see Dark Knight on an HD system, and I thought it had more visual impact than Avatar. Its plot was less understandable because of the frequent cuts, but the character of the Joker dominated and had way more impact than any character of Avatar.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 07:46 PM

The Wizard of Oz, Batman, and Heart of Darkness. We're dealing with wildly different audiences and interpretations with these three.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: open mike
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 03:58 AM

i love the name unobtainium--

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Darowyn
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 04:29 AM

Bike and car racers have used 'unobtanium' for many years to describe the exotic materials used in the works machinery, and to which the privateer competitors have no access.
I think I first read it in "Cycle" magazine in the early 1970s.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 12:51 PM

My own opinion is that trying to compare other movies with Avatar is like trying to compare different kinds of fruit with a truffle. They're too different to evaluate in comparison with one another. At least I wouldn't try it myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Abdul the Bul Bul on laptop
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 01:43 PM

Saw it last night and thought it was a magnificent film. It reminded me of going to see Starwars the first time and being stunned by the effects. I've not seen a 3D movie before and can only say that this has to be the 'next step' in movies. What a lot of twaddle up in the thread. It's a movie, it's a story. It's goodies and baddies, of course we've seen it before. Wonderful stuff, can't wait to see it again.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 05:19 PM

If you're satisfied with twaddle, Abdul by all means see it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

Well, maybe I'll give it a try and report back.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:47 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:12 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

There are people whose salaries depend on being able to make alien babes hot. It dates from before Star Trek, but ST I made it so frickin' obvious that on a more recent Stargate episode one of the characters said to another "You went all Captain Kirk on her, didn't you?" I hit the floor laughing.

On the 'hot' male alien side we've even got a song reference, courtesy of Julie Brown: "Earth Girls Are Easy", which song led to a movie with Jeff Goldblum and some other guy who was willing to be painted - blue?

And THAT flick was more watchable than Avatar!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:21 PM

Robomatic: I think you must have forgotten to put on your 3D glasses!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:58 PM

sigourney weaver looks pretty good also

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

Recommended by eleven-year-old grandson. Don't go to the flicks, but I am signed up for a copy when it is released on DVD.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

Q: I recommend the reverse. If you're going to see it, see it in 3D. That is the experience that generates the raves. If you see it on a small screen, even if HD, and if you care about story at all, you will not get through it, and you'll be left with an expensive beer coaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:54 PM

3D's definitely better.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:00 PM

3D is amazing, with this film. Every so often I would tip the glasses down to see what it looks like. I imagine the film on a regular high definition or Blu-ray delivery will be attractive, but 3D isn't just a gimmick, it really is an important part of the delivery.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:30 PM

I saw it in 3D and I highly recommend it. The story line is kind of like "Dances With Wolves" had sex with "The Last Samurai" and this is the offspring. But it was done well, and the effects are absolutely to die for. I went expecting to find a glorified cartoon, and found myself buying into it completely. I agree completely with Maggie, the 3D was beyond any rendition I have seen so far, and very important to the delivery. You actually felt the sensations of flying during those sequences. While I might not give the screenplay a 10, it certainly was very good and easy to buy into. Overall I agree that this is one you should spend some shekels on and see in the theater.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:38 PM

Conversely, I understand someone will be selling 3D TVs in the not too distant future, so if someone is totally averse to seeing a movie in the theater and has some money to burn, that might be an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 10:01 PM

How might this look on a standard home TV DVD as secured from Netflix?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 12:16 AM

It will still be an interesting movie, but if you're watching it on a regular screen it will be so small that you'll miss most of the effects. If you can get out to a theater now to see it in 3D I think you'll find it well worth the effort.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 05:21 AM

I thought it was excellent. It is basically an anti-war of aggression movie. just what young people today need to see. and very artistically done.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

This film has been very, very well marketed .... makes one like you absolutely have to go see it ... from the trailer I watched it seems the effects appear to be like any out of a virtual computer game ... especially those avatars and natives... typical virtual eyes, Geeesh .... I keep hearing the "best movie ever" ... that statement in itself makes me want to shy away from it ... especially dropping big $money$ to go see it.

Remember the last "best movie ever", the Titanic (also by J. Cameron) ... were you were a nobody unless you went see it .... well, 13 years or so later it pretty well would not be considered by many to have been the "best movie" ever.

Oh well ... guess I'm a bit of grump to fall for all these mass frenzied cinema attractions. I guess I expect something else out of a movie.

I should also add the people I know who were all caught up in the 'best movie ever' hype warned me not to go see Sherlock Holmes. Well, me and the missus went to see it .... I enjoyed it immensley, no computer generated funny looking beings with those dreadful big pie eyes blinking away ... I certainly would not consider it the best movie ever ... but I didn't feel like I was ripped off on the admission fees and the popcorn.

well ... that was my 2 cents worth ... all I got left (until payday) after spending my $money$ at the cinema.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:23 AM

No amount of reading reviews or watching 2D trailers will prepare you for the 3D experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:28 AM

I'm not really interested a 3D experience.

Experiencing life is better.

biLL :)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:00 PM

Different strokes, 6, but you won't really be able to say for sure whether or not you like it if you haven't seen it.


One of the things I liked about the story is that although it has an anti-war of aggression message, it doesn't vilify warriors and people with a warrior mindset. It just gives them a different kind of possible outlet for their warrior nature; one that I happen to agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:23 PM

Number 6: I fear that you are a prisoner of your own lack of vision.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Good one Tunesmith. :)

I'll wait for about year and then it will be in the $3.00 DVD bucket at the local Superstore ... I'll purchase it. I still saved my red and blue cellophane viewer that I got when I saw the movie 13 Ghosts many years ago when I was a kid. This old viewer will allow me to experience Avatar in 3D.

CarolC .... I agree about the 'different strokes' ... just expressing my stubborn smart ass opinions here. About the anti-war message in the movie ... all I can say is that there is not enough of these messages in movies.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 03:53 PM

I paid $7 for the matinée I went to. It wasn't any more than the other films showing.

This film also didn't waste a lot of time with jealously. There is a scenario where that could be a time-waster, but that seems to be something they didn't build into this new culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 04:00 PM

Red and blue glasses won't work with this film. They have a whole new technology now. The glasses now just look like faintly tinted regular glasses. I originally wanted to see the film just so I could see at least one film in 3D. I was curious about the experience. I fully expected to not think very highly of the story itself or of the acting/effects. I was very pleasantly suprised.

(And I imagine you're just being playful, anyway, and you know that you need to see the film at a 3D theater in order for any 3D glasses to work.)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 10:21 PM

The new 3D system is a type of polarized lens, though it won't work out of doors. Just in the context of the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gweltas
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:17 AM

To quote from one of the above postings I am "a prisoner of my own lack of vision" in that I have very limited vision in one eye, so 3D doesn't "work" for me. Therefore I went to a cinema while I was in New York that was showing Avatar in regular movie format (not 3D).

It was still the most visually stunning movie that I have ever seen and I loved every minute of it and fully intend to see it again some time soon. For those who are fortunate in having 2 fully functional eyes, seeing it in 3D must surely be the experience of a life time !!

The storyline is a pretty normal one, around which are woven a series of incredibly beautiful concepts and special effects. It is an artistic tour de force and should not be missed ! Realising that there are vastly differing opinions being expressed on the film's merits, all I can say is --don't rely on others' opinions to decide whether or not to go see Avatar --- go see it for yourself and then form your own opinion on what you have experienced.
Anne XX

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:33 PM

Now this flick looks more intriguing .... and it's probably in panavision ....

Space Battleship Yamato

something has to be said about those 1970's technical effects.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:11 PM

In comparing the dreadful (hackneyed, illogical, uninspiring) story of Avatar, a reviewer recently brought up Princess Mononoke, which made the same thematic points only with much greater creative imagination.

If I have to say anything good about Avatar, I'd call it a triumph of rendering, but next year there will be another triumph of rendering, and the cliches of Avatar will have long 'rendered' it to the ash heap of unwatchability.

Even Toy Story is coming out with a 3D version.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:26 PM

The 3-D experience ..... George Orwell's "the feelies" ... Brave New World.

Hmmmmm .... now there's a thought.


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

No surprise, I expect, that in under 3 weeks that it has been out, Avatar has broken all sorts of records. There was a story about it on NPR this afternoon.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 05:03 PM

Looks like a triumph of style over substance, or form over content. One for the geeks and the computer nerds, I fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 11:32 PM

A few points.


The three D glasses were not polarized or tinted. According to a review I read they have alternating shutters synchronized at 120 blinks per second to sort out alternating images projected on the screen. How they can build that and sell it for 3 dollars baffles me. It will be a good experience to see the movie on a home theater even not in 3d but I strongly suggest the experience in a theater, preferably in IMAX.

I can easily say it is the best movie I have ever seen. Maybe I can explain that by saying that most of my favorites are Science Fiction like Dr Strange Love or Blade Runner or very visually compelling films such as Lawrence of Arabia and Seven Samurai. The experience of seeing Avatar for the first time even surpassed the experience of seeing Star Wars with fresh eyes.

With this new technology available, perhaps I can finally look forward to a film adaptation of RingWorld.

SPOILER ALERT!!

There is no implied genocide. Some seem to have inferred genocide, but the script did not go there. In fact the company would prefer that the natives were not hurt at all. It only attacks two specific positions, the first a tree village, the second a religious site, when the traitor avatar, traitor from the company's point of view, the hero of the movie, attacks the hundred foot tall bulldozer. The conflict then becomes personal. The military commander of the base is a psycho and one of the best villians I have seen in a movie. Think of a cross between Generals Custer and "Buck" Turgidson (from Dr. Strangelove) with the ruthless of the Queen alien from Aliens.

I don't think it is fair to say that another movie told the story better. A quarter billion people will enjoy this story as Cameron wrote it. I think that is a pretty good result from his decade of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 11:40 PM

Correction to my last post. The glasses ARE polarized. The first Article I read was unclear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:19 AM

The dialog is where the genocide is implied. Listen to the chief military honcho, early in the film. "They're really hard to kill." It's in there.

I don't know how anyone would commercially make the kind of glasses you first read about--too much to have stay on one's face. Maybe that is speculation on future generations of 3D film technology. The glasses at my theater were just handed out, no charge.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:42 AM

Back in the early 70s, when living in London, I was a member of the National Film Theatre, whose cinema and HQ was (and is) on the South Bank. There was a summer season of films called "The Golden Silents" for which a ticket to all 30 films could be purchased, and the season lasted, including some late-night showings, for several weeks. During that season, I saw some of the most wonderful films I've ever seen - and, I think, that were ever made. Each film was introduced with a preliminary talk by an actor or director or member of the NFT, and each one was accompanied on the piano by one of those two (then) stalwarts of the silent cinema, Florence De Jong and Arthur Dulay. In most cases, the original b&w prints had been cleaned and restored to their original quality - which was stunning.

What an experience it was! The Phantom Of The Opera and The Hunchback Of Notre Dame with Lon Chaney (Senior)... Chaplin's City Lights... amazing films by Georges Melies... the list goes on.

The experiences of widescreen, IMAX, 3D, etc., are also marvellous, I'm sure, and I'm not knocking Avatar as I haven't seen it. But when I hear phrases like "the greatest film ever made" for modern films, I sometimes wonder if the person saying it has really sampled the amazing range of film made from the 1900s to the present day. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amergin
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:50 AM

Yeah especially since the greatest film ever made was Behind The Green Door.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:58 AM

Bring on the nuns and the trapeze artists, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:44 AM

People's perspective seems to be very short when those "greatest ever" or "best of the century" lists are created. They lose all perspective to the early, ground-breaking events. They also usually don't even know to take other parts of the world into account on these lists.

I usually ignore those sorts of lists and that kind of hyperbole.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:52 AM

Jack the sailor .... "Dr Strange Love or Blade Runner" ... I have to agree with you on those 2 excellent movies.

The bottom line in all of this is what Carol says "different strokes, for different folks" ... what is the "best is" is objective in the viewers mind. To me (and to many others) Dr. Strangelove is one of the best. Whether it is, doesn't really matter ... but it did make a big impression on a 12 year old kid (me) who saw it in the theatre way back when. The impression it made stamped a pacifist outlook that would remain with me through my life time. If Avatar does the same to some kid now ... then it is a wonderful movie indeed.

I also would say there is a slight generational gap in tastes of movies these days ... having already been through a heated (but a very fun debate) with my son on Christmas eve regarding this movie and the technical innovations/effects of the director J. Cameron and his ilk.

Now ... some of you say my old 3D viewers will not work if I view Avatar on my TV ..... Damn it !!

biLL    :)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:57 PM

Sony is about to make 3d tvs with the same technology. But they will require their own versions of the glasses. Note that there is one irritating thing about the 3d. At movies, Carol likes to sit way back from the screen. Having the whole screen and then some in the field of vision meant that some of the 3d effects would disappear into the angular corners. That proved distracting at the time and brought one slightly out of the story. The 3d version of the movie was 3 dollars more than the conventional one. The specs therefor, even if subsidized, could not have cost much more than 3 dollars. They reportedly work by "circular" polarization, whatever that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:15 PM

Just been looking through my DVD collection. How do you think the following films would measure up against "Avatar"?:

The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1966)
Blade Runner - Directors' Cut (Scott, 1982)
Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot (Tati, 1953)
The Day The Earth Stood Still (Wise, 1951)
Seven Samurai (Kurosawa, 1954)
Tom & Jerry: The Cat Concerto (Barbera, 1946)
A Matter Of Life And Death (Powell & Pressburger, 1946)

etc,. etc.

Just a tiny selection from my DVD collection - think about the wonderful films made through the years - and then think about "the greatest film"... All choice is personal, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:34 PM

"circular" polarization, whatever that is"

ah ha ... a polarizing filter ... I have a few for various camera lenses I have. These polarizing filters are used for enhancing the the sky (water etc) .... you turn the ring of the filter to extract the degree of blue when using colour film or darkness when using B&W.

maybe I can use these.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:34 PM

Will, you have two of my favorites there.

Blade Runner has compelling characters and a fascinating theme. Seven Samurai is a fantastically well crafted action comedy.

If we are talking about the best movie given its current state of the art, then one could make a case for either being the best ever. But film makers like all craftsmen, build on the past.

A 1910 Rolls Royce was a great car for its time. But a modern Ford Focus is a better car.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:35 PM

Yes bILL, I am sure that will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 05:14 PM

A 1910 Rolls Royce was a great car for its time. But a modern Ford Focus is a better car.

Well... perhaps... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 06:46 PM

The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1966)A film in a class by itself (a GREAT film) and a lot to tell us about what we are going through in the world today. Some of the actors were historical participants. A must see with a whole lot more going for it than stuff like the disenchantment of "Valley of Elah" or the navel gazing (to no purpose) of "Lions and Lambs".

Blade Runner - Directors' Cut (Scott, 1982)One of the rare spinoffs based rather loosely on the great Sci Fi author Philip K Dick. It's been pretty easy to take his ideas loosely, but rather harder to make a film that is true to his stories, partly because his settings are at least half psychological. Maybe Hitchcock AND CGI could have achieved it. I dread the day someon like Cameron tries to tackle "Ubik".

Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot (Tati, 1953)Didn't see it, don't know it.

The Day The Earth Stood Still (Wise, 1951)Case in point, the original movie is well acted and the special effects, though limited, still hold sway today with the spare grim presentation of Gort, and the inspired use of the theremin. The movie has characters, plot, excellent writing, pacing, a simple and straightforward message presented with much less manipulation than the cliche that is Avatar. Last year a travesty was issued under the name of TDTESS, with in fact a similar message to that of Avatar. It was like hijacking Shakespeare or Dickens (filmicly speaking). Poorly paced, poorly plotted, an unbelievable context for an ok message, it panders to this age instead of presenting the original stark timeless message.

Seven Samurai (Kurosawa, 1954)One of the great movies of all time. I wonder if issuing this in Blu-Ray can add anything? It was Japan's tribute to the John Ford western, and like good little copycats the Americans re-issued it as Magnificent Seven, with an inspired soundtrack. I don't want to generalize, but Americans sure know how to copy a good idea (and many many bad ones).

Tom & Jerry: The Cat Concerto (Barbera, 1946)Sorry, not into Tom & Jerry. (I think I'd rather watch Avatar again!) Itchy and Scratchy are the logical culmination of all Tom & Jerrys (although Jerry did okay sharing the action with Fred Astaire (or was it Gene Kelly?)The little basterd rodent had some moves.

A Matter Of Life And Death (Powell & Pressburger, 1946)(Didn't see it, ignorant sod)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:46 AM

Tati's "Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot" - better known in the UK as "Monsieur Hulot's Holiday" - is a story, told more in mime and sound effects than dialogue, about an eccentric Frenchman on holiday in a little seaside resort. Very funny and charming - and a classic of French cinema. Tati was one of the presenters at the National Film Theatre during the Golden Silents season. A large part of his presentation was a selection from his silent music-hall mime act - brilliant.

Tom & Jerry can be an acquired taste. "The Cat Concerto" won an Oscar in 1946 and is different from the usual chase sequences in that Tom is a concert pianist playing a version of one of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies - with Jerry asleep inside the piano. The comedy - particularly the use of the piano keys and hammers - is incredibly inventive and beautifully animated.

"A Matter Of Life And Death" is unique - better to look up the synopsis than let me ramble through a plot which is part fantasy, part melodrama, part philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:04 AM

My apologies if this has already been posted. Interesting piece on how Avatar has upset the conservatives HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:57 AM

Just because these works of art are all on film doesn't mean that comparing them or ranking them, film to film, is a particularly rational thing to do. Same with books or photographs or anything else. They are stand-alone works of art, but they also represent a time and place and milestones that we look back at. There may easily be circumstances when it would make more sense to compare a book and a film (not necessarily the same story) or a film and a musical score, or a book and a musical score, than to compare one film next to another.

The story and the acting and the technology all go into the work, from whatever period, but it is ultimately up to the viewer to bring what they know to the work of art and decide how they feel about it. In a Postmodern world, this is almost a given, though not quite. Not by the people who are intent on making lists and disregarding the idea that lists are themselves a construction open to interpretation. They are a distraction from the art itself. They should be used only as an enumeration of items people might want to look at and enjoy and compare for themselves. Context is everything.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:20 PM

SRS


Obviously some people like lists and others, like you consider themselves to be above them. Speaking for those of us who find lists and comparisons useful and time saving and who still somehow consider themselves to be rational. We do know how to take such things with a grain of salt and we know how to place a value on other people's opinions, even opinions as lofty as yours.


Hi Kat,

Interesting article, I don't find myself agreeing with many of the underlying assumptions of it though.

Cameron and subversive "left winger" Has this person bothered to look at the list of movies Cameron has made?
Does anyone think it is unrealistic to portray conflict between mercenaries and miners vs natives anything but violent and exploitive?
Where is the example in our history of benevolent conquerors?
Pizzaro? Cortez? The British East India Company? HBC? Texico in the rain forests? The US Cavalry against the Apache?
I thought Cameron was careful not to blame the US or its people.

It may have been a little over the top when the main character said "sent them back to their dirty planet." But it was credible for the character to feel that way.

I think Cameron was just telling the best story possible to display the techniques and characters he wanted to portray. I don't really think he had a political agenda. On the other hand. If he wants to win and Oscar he'd better keep that to himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

This discussion of the politics is, in my opinion, closer to the reality.

Corporate bad guys?

I don't think those that are dissing the message of Avatar are taking into account that it has been brought to us by the same corporation that brings us Hannity and Glen Beck.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:42 PM

I articulated a postmodern response. You don't need to make it personal.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 12:50 AM

I don't need to make it personal????

I was one of the people "comparing them or ranking them, film to film" You called me irrational and say don't make it personal. LOL!!!
________________________________________________

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 12:53 AM

I didn't call anybody irrational, I wasn't speaking to you, and I won't again, because I know where this is going. Goodbye, it was a good thread while it lasted.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 04:40 AM

According to the likes of Derrida and Foucault, bus tickets have as much cultural relevance and say as much about the world - given the context - as Shakespeare. However, if you don't believe in postmodern theory - and I never have - then comparisons in terms of art, technique, expression, philosophy, etc., still do mean something.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,banclari
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 06:16 AM

I got my money's worth... Pandora's box is wide open,
"I See You', ICU or,Icy Ewe....

but what are those white dots,,, Na-vi acne ?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 04:40 PM

Here is a sample of the original screenplay

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 02:39 PM

I read in a screenwriting book that there are only 27 different plots in movies.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 09:30 PM

David Brooks in the NY Times has a pretty good column about what he calls the "White Messiah Complex" in Avatar, as well as "A Man Called Horse," "At Play in the Fields of the Lord," "Dances With Wolves" or "The Last Samurai." He says, 'kids have been given their own pure versions of the fable, like "Pocahontas" and "FernGully."'

He says:

Still, would it be totally annoying to point out that the whole White Messiah fable, especially as Cameron applies it, is kind of offensive?

It rests on the stereotype that white people are rationalist and technocratic while colonial victims are spiritual and athletic. It rests on the assumption that nonwhites need the White Messiah to lead their crusades. It rests on the assumption that illiteracy is the path to grace. It also creates a sort of two-edged cultural imperialism. Natives can either have their history shaped by cruel imperialists or benevolent ones, but either way, they are going to be supporting actors in our journey to self-admiration.

It's just escapism, obviously, but benevolent romanticism can be just as condescending as the malevolent kind — even when you surround it with pop-up ferns and floating mountains.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 10:05 PM

"There was a movie I seen one time, I think I sat through it twice.
I don't remember who I was or where I was bound.
All I remember about it was it starred Gregory Peck, he wore a gun and he was shot in the back.
Seems like a long time ago, long before the stars were torn down."

... excerpt from Brownsville Girl, lyrics by B. Dylan and S. Shepard

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 11:55 PM

I think that young, disabled marine in charge of the crusade so that his audience would identify with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 11:56 PM

>>It rests on the assumption that illiteracy is the path to grace.

There seems to be a typo here.

surely "literacy" is what is meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 11:59 PM

I read an article about the White messiah complex aspect of the movie from the perspective of people who are not White. They said the movie is definitely worth watching for a number of reasons, but they did criticize that aspect of it. I'll see if I can find the article and post it.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 12:04 AM

Here it is...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Avatar-Movie-from-a-Bl-by-Ezili-Danto-100104-843.html

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 12:29 PM

Jack - In the case of the glorified native paradigm, illiteracy is a good thing -- the mind is pure of western thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 02:44 PM

An alternative take on the White messiah thing... in the case of Avatar, and I imagine some of the other films with this theme, the White person is saving the "natives" from other White people, which isn't really the same as rescuing them because of their own lack of ability. In this kind of situation, the indigenous people are unfamiliar with the methods used by the aggressors, and having someone from aggressor culture, who knows and understands their ways, to help them defend themselves makes a lot of sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:55 PM

I suspect there is another group that will need to weigh in for an interesting answer regarding race in this film: mixedblood members of any culture have a foot in at least two camps, though complete exposure to both doesn't always happen. Since the comparison has been made so often to American Indian culture, looking at the scholarship of such individuals as Gerald Vizenor, Louise Erdrich, Michael Dorris, Louis Owens, Linda Hogan, Leslie Marmon Silko, Wendy Rose and the scholars who know them so well might shed some light. I expect those responses either aren't out there yet, or haven't been repeated (or retweeted) as widely.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:58 PM

Ezili Danto does make some interesting points. But it is probably prudent to keep in mind that it IS just a movie and that Cameron is making no attempt at historical scholarship. On the other hand One of his characters mentioning "vudon" in this movie will probably do more for the Haitian cause than any number of Op-eds or protests.

Keeping in mind that Cameron is free to do what he wants in a made up world and to base it on any number of sources. The cavalry charge near the end of the movie reminded me of the Poles on horseback fighting the NAZIs at the start of WWII. Unless Cameron says he used it, I don't think any outside scholarship is relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:18 AM

Of course it is relevant! It's allowing the viewer to articulate what it is they bring (in their experience and understanding and belief system and whatever else) to the film. It's why the movie isn't quite the same for any two people who see it. The film maker releases his creation into the world and then the world responds to it, one viewer at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 07:37 AM

More "Post Modernism?" It is wrong to compare movies to movies, but relevant to bring other, unrelated fields into play? You certainly seem to have an amusing and creative way of looking at things.

I'm pretty sure that Cameron's research was to find a plausible and amusing story in which he could show off this world he created. Characters were chosen to be as accessible and familiar as possible to a broad audience. As someone else on this thread has pointed out, it probably owes more to the writers of "Dances with Wolves" or Disney's "Pocahontas" than to any of the anthropologists you have mentioned.

I haven't seen any hint of racism in any of Cameron's films before this. I have no doubt that none was intended in Avatar. Why isn't this film instead being praised for featuring a disabled character?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 11:22 AM

In all seriousness, while I think there is relevancy to the 'white messiah complex' as a major and repeated thematic element, it also occurs in other contexts, such as the Normans/ over Anglo-Saxon theme in the play/ movie Becket and other such contexts. I think we could go post-post-modern and extrapolate it out to a left brain/ right brain context, and the super organizing theme is not so much racial or tribal or cultural as a logical/ existential kind of mutual need.

It all comes down to Ying and Yang, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 01:43 PM

Weren't the Anglo-Saxons whiter than the Normans? Wouldn't that be the French messiah complex?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 01:46 PM

Mais oui!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 01:57 PM

I'll just skip down here and say that I'm not going to discuss this any more with you Jack, because you've now reached the point where you will say "No" any time I say "yes," just for the sake of arguing. And I don't find that kind of irrational argument a productive form of discourse.

Like I said, it was a nice thread while it lasted.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 02:12 PM

The rationality of what I have said speaks for its self.

If you don't want your BullShip pointed out why do you continue to dispense it?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: fretless
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 06:02 PM

Oh good grief! I'd stayed off this thread until I got around to seeing the movie, which I finally did last night. Of course the plot was White messiah nonsense. The point of this cartoon of a movie was the special effects, which were superb (and yes, worth the extra bucks to see it in 3D). As soon as the sexy alien chick leads our crippled-in-real-life but agile-in-alien-avatar-form hero into the native conclave and introduces him to the clan leader, announcing that the leader is also her father, I turned to my companion and said: "Oh, now I get it -- it's Disney's Pocahontas." Every plot turn from then on was entirely predictable: the bad and greedy indusrialists, getting to fly the big bird, the two-dimensional psycho military leader, the final transformation via the tree of life.

But who cares. The visuals were great. Doesn't make it less entertaining as a movie, unless you thought you were paying for an intellectual plot instead of a visual experience.

Same thing when Star Wars came out in the 1970s -- insultingly stupid dialogue ("After you, flyboy," or something like that, as they dive into the garbage disposal) with, for its time, awesome special effects.

As for the 3D technology, my eyes are not compatible with the old red-green versions of 3D. This new format, polarized or whatever, works fine. Worth a try even if you have had difficulty with the older formats.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 09:07 PM

I just came back from the film and I'm glad I went. The production is quite spectacular, and the alien world quite attractive and interesting. The evil military and aggressive entrepreneurial types do dominate the story line, but they get what they deserve.

I suppose that the fact that millions of young people will actually view this moral drama may have some pay-off. It's doubtful if there are many other opportunities in our culture where such lessons might be learned.

I would have preferred a stronger script, maybe something based on Ursula Leguin's work but I'll settle for this.

I'm glad I wasn't totally discouraged by the initial reviews and comments.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 10:01 PM

I'm definitely only critical in retrospect; came out saying "Wow!"

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:21 AM

A sequel or two is in the works.

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-avatar-trilogy.html

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:28 AM

I wish these 3D movie moguls would come to terms with the fact that lots of us wear glasses, and started to provide goggles that clip on, rather than expecting people to wear two pairs of conventional frames at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:02 AM

I wear glasses. I had no trouble putting their glasses over my own.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:19 PM

Same here.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 04:23 PM

Either you wear very different glasse from me, or your cinema supplies very different goggles.   I can just about balance them on, and if I hold my head steady, they don't fall off, but it's never comfortable. Something like this would be simple enough, work a lot better, and shouldn't be any more expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: reggie miles
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM

I spent a couple of extra dollars to see this at our largest IMAX theater. The Boeing IMAX, at the Seattle Center grounds, has a six story tall screen. It really helped to immerse me in the plot.

I'm far less critical of any similarities to the plots of other movies or stories. I'm almost always willing to give any show a fair viewing. Everyone has their own way of expressing a tale and making a tale interesting. I'm always interested in how a particular production handles the details.

As far as I'm concerned, they did a most admirable job with this telling. I loved the 3D effects, the intensity of the color, the sweeping aerial action scenes. It was very innovative. I enjoyed the mixture of outer space and the fantasy elements of the inhabitants of Pandora.

I could have easily watched another couple of hours worth or more. I'm glad to know that they're considering more of this kind of movie making. I'm also glad that it has sold so well. That success will certainly fund more of the same. I think that the ideas represented in it have the potential to further entertain and this kind of entertainment is right up my alley.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:42 PM

where I was mac, it was a pair of horn rimmed style glasses about an inch wider than mine. They worked and fit fine over my specs.

I guess if the technology becomes popular a range of different lenses will be offered.


Do you think that Cameron has polarized contacts?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 12:20 AM

I had a lot of trouble with the glasses. I had to hold them on over my prescription glasses for most of the movie. They kept wanting to slide off my nose. Maybe I had more trouble than JtS did because he has more room for two pairs of glasses on his nose than I do.

However, even with the glasses trouble, it was still definitely worth seeing.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:07 AM

The visual experience, up in the trees and in the sky, reminded me of my first experience snorkeling on the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. There was this window opening up onto an entirely alien world.

It won't be long before someone pulls together an Avatar theme park, I suppose, but I'm a little too old to go scrambling through the tree tops, unless they can transport my mind to a younger and limber blue bode. Hmmmm?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:00 PM

Just seen it. Beautiful to look at during the travelogue bits. The plot and all the knockabout fighting got in the way - not just because of it being violent as because it messed up the illusion.

The point of special effects or whatever you call it when it gets to this level, is that you forget them and experience them as real. When it comes to nine-foot high blue people and weird and wonderful creatures and even flying mountains, no problem - they look real, I can believe in them at the time. But computer game style battles, and contrived and unbelievable victories for the goodies - even though I do like that to happen - just serves to shatter the illusion.

Still it was amazing to watch.

Downpoint was when it came to the end credits, and there was that absolutely terrible song by an appalling screechy singer. No doubt intended to drive us from the theatre...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:41 PM

Here is what I mean - especially the last two minutes or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 09:20 PM

McGrath-

I basically agree with you. It's a lovely picture to look at until it reeves up to the battle scenes. And things didn't look good for the planet's residents until the Planet decided enough was enough.

But at the Golden Globe awards the other night:

"It's déjà vu for director James Cameron, who bagged the trophy for Best Director at the 67th Golden Globes for his sci-fi comeback film, "Avatar," which also won for "Best Motion Picture – Drama."

Cameron took home the same honors 12 years ago for the highest-grossing movie of all time, "Titanic." "Avatar" now trails behind the ship-set romance film, and is only $287 million short to beat "Titanic"'s $1.8 billion world record."

Now if he would use a script based on the writing of Ursula LeGuin, Cameron might come up with a more intriguing story and characters.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:38 PM

Harlin Ellison sued Cameron for Terminator. You think he should steal from better authors?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Jack-

I don't think I suggested "stealing" but why not suggest better literary sources? It's also true that good stories that have been transformed into film seldom survive the process. Even with MASTER AND COMMANDER, one of the best nautical films of the Napoleonic Period, the director hardly deserved more than a B- but some of it he got right.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 10:50 AM

I just saw the IMAX 3d version here in San Diego. I am blown away by the artistry of this film. I wouldn't bother submitting it to the toxic scrutiny of those who have to reduce everything to Comp Lit. Cameron has accomplished a pinnacle in the art.

The plot is a lot less cheesy than some of its stereotypical elements. There is a crucial moment, for example, in which the heroine confronts saving the life of her lover and bringing him back to life, excerpt in a different body than she has known him in. Now that's a crux worth pausing on; it is about as far from a cliche as you can get.

I found it excellently paced and timed, intellectually and emotionally touching, and absolutely worth the time and treasure to go see it. The 3D technology alone, perfected as I have never seen it before, is worth it. I feel like a farmer who just saw a Tin Lizzie go by for the first time.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 01:41 PM

and it's about set to sink 'Titanic ' as the top money maker...

Those Ontario lads know how to do it !

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 02:52 PM

a crucial moment, for example, in which the heroine confronts saving the life of her lover and bringing him back to life, excerpt in a different body than she has known him in.

I didn't read it that way. Keeping him alive as a human being wasn't really an option (wrong atmosphere, aside from other incompatibilities), and surely the blue body involved was the same one she'd always known him wearing?

The narrative cliches didn't really matter too much. All westerns are full of cliches, even the off-beat ones like this), it's part of their appeal.

Pity about the boring battles, but presumably they've decided that that appeals to more people than it puts off. I'd like to think they are wrong, or at least that that stuff is a temporary phase that will pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 03:00 PM

The body she was seeing for the first time--Sully's Terran body--she somehow knew was the one. She revived it. She did so to save the one she had known through his Avatar, but the remarkable dual-identity issue was a really dramatic factor at that crucial moment.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 05:10 PM

It is now number one all time worldwide!

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/camerons-avatar-becomes-top-movie-attraction-all-time-117534

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jan 10 - 05:34 PM

For Ellison fans, this is on Netflix.


Harlan Ellison: Dreams with Sharp Teeth(2008) NR

Directed by Erik Nelson, this absorbing documentary delves into the life of sci-fi scribe Harlan Ellison, known as much for his contentious demeanor and abrasive personality as he is for his award-winning literature. The venerated writer -- one of the genre's most prolific and influential storytellers -- is profiled through accounts of critics, friends and associates, candid interviews with the outspoken author and readings from his works.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gulliver
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 12:07 AM

Loved it...one of the best films I've seen...

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:03 AM

The weird effect that I noticed with the 'glasses' was that I was reminded of those little screens in the 50/60s that had grooves in the plastic and a few pictures that appeared to move when you moved your head... the '3D' effect reminded me of old style manual multi layer cell animation - several different layers of in focus images at different distances away.

Never DID adjust to that completely, but I kept the headaches at bay, once I realised that effect....

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 09:11 AM

My favorite movie of all time. And that's really saying something.