Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 03:00 PM

It's sure lessened, but CNN still has folks there, and I see updates pretty often. Anderson Cooper & Dr. Sanjay Gupta seem either be staying, or going back regularly.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:33 PM

Fascinating how this has simply disappeared from the news headlines. Like the tsunami victims and people in New Orleans, the quake survivors in Haiti will be overlooked after a while by the main stream media as old news. Sad but true.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 02:41 PM

Survivior found after a month.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 02:47 PM

Just signed a petition calling for banks and governments to drop Haiti's debt.


http://one.org/international/actnow/haiti/#

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 04:09 PM

I think the U.N., working with what's left of the Haitian government, must take over the country for a while - with other nations helping via them.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 04:06 PM

I still remember with shudders the reign of Papa Doc, and his son, Baby Doc. They raped the island for almost 20 years. Haiti has never had a decent government, and the only 'regular' decent product from there was Rhum Barbancourt, which I doubt we'll be seeing for awhile.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 03:53 PM

Corruption Perception Index

"Political corruption is a common problem in Haiti. The country has consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt nations according to the Corruption Perceptions Index, a measure of perceived political corruption. In 2006, Haiti was ranked as the most corrupt nation out of the 163 that were surveyed for the Index.[4] The International Red Cross reported that Haiti was 155th out of 159 countries in a similar survey of corrupt countries.[5]"

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 03:46 PM

Does anyone know why Haiti is so poor?

Here's an article from the Guardian, giving some background and reasons why the two countries are so different. It's complicated.

It's worth reading - it's an extract from a book about these kinds of published in 2005, ie, not a piece of hackwork knocked together in face of the present disaster, like most of the comments that get printed and quoted.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:59 PM

A comment on BBC News - One fourth of Haitian income is obtained from those who have entered the United States and Canada, both legally and illegally.
I wouldn't doubt it.

This article adds to the one linked by 999:
Paradise Lost

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:54 PM

Point re: 7 Years War:   being that Canada, which had no sugar plantations, was not rated highly.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:52 PM

999's link is indeed a good start.    It's certainly true that the French considered the island their crown jewel.   Sugar plantations made colonial operations fabulously wealthy--and not just on Hispaniola.   As I recall it was a burning issue right after the 7 Years War as to whether Hispaniola or Canada was more valuable.

It's also true, as the Haitian Ambassador pointed out, that there's a link between Haiti and the Louisiana Purchase: after the successful Sainte Domingue revolt, Napoleon decided it was better to get some money for European operations and sell off French holdings in the Western Hemisphere--probably also did not mind strengthening a rival to Great Britain.

But any explanation of Haiti's poverty which leaves out misgovernment is misleading.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:40 PM

Why is Haiti so poor--the short version.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:35 PM

Why Haiti is so poor:   has a lot to do with wretched government for a long, long time.

Nothing of course to do with Robertson's allegation.   Maybe he should be sent over there--and dropped from a great height.

Stifling him--legally--would be a big step forward, including--or maybe especially--for Christians.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:26 PM

Donations to relief in Haiti may be sent to the Salvation Army, which has low administration costs, insuring most of the money is actually used for help.

Another is The Clinton Foundation:
Clinton Foundation

This foundation, founded by former President Bill Clinton, UN Envoy to Haiti, is providing funds for immediate relief.
In Canada, the Clinton Giustra Sustainable Growth Initiative (Canada) is helping to raise funds via mobile text messaging for the relief effort in Haiti. 100% of donations will be directed to Haiti relief efforts.
Details at the above website.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 02:08 PM

Since I can't get there I sent a generous donation to the Salvation Army. They do great work.
Does anyone know why Haiti is so poor?

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

US Army web site with relief information.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 01:38 PM

Even the Dominican Republic is sending help. They and Haiti have traditionally been something between 'adversaries' and 'distant neighbors'. The Dominicans are being careful not to allow a mass exodus of Haitians to overwhelm them, but are allowing staging of some aid parties and providing other help.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 01:28 PM

Would that it could, Sandy.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 01:19 PM

Also the Canadian Navy dispatched two ships from Halifax as soon as they could be readied.
Many charities are requesting donations and I hear of some scams. Therefore I made my donation to the Red Cross because they have people on the ground there and I trust that it in some small way may help a few.
When the city of Halifax was mostly destroyed by a massive explosion in 1917 a relief train was quickly dispatched from Boston with doctors, nurses, and medical supplies. They saved many and Nova Scotia has never forgotten that deed by our American friends.
As terrible as the situation in Haiti is, humanity from around the world is stepping in with empathy as well as sympathy, and differences are cast aside in an effort to help others. My hope is that such a level of international co-operation would continue!

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 12:33 PM

"Meanwhile, the Canadian army has begun assembling hundreds of soldiers and military equipment at CFB Trenton in the event that additional soldiers are required to keep the peace and assist rescue efforts in Port-au-Prince, sources say.

While the orders have not come down from the government to deploy, a "battle-group-plus" of up to 800 soldiers from CFB Valcartier in Quebec are on standby in Trenton.

The Valcartier-based force comes from the [mostly] francophone Royal 22nd Regiment, known as the Van Doos, and would be a logical choice to send to the devastated French-speaking Caribbean nation."



As an aside, the term 'van doos' comes from a mispronunciation of the French "vingt-deux" which means 22.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 12:22 PM

There have been worse earthquakes...(like in China)..but there it was in a huge country with places for people to go and some roads & landing strips for relief vehicles...and a central government which had resources.
This is too many people in too small a space, with no roads/streets in many places in the city, no power, almost no government, and many people who will decide that "survival of the fittest" applies.
You don't just drive a truck up in the middle with food and water for a thousand when 100,000 will try to get it.
It will be a nightmare devising a distribution system that both gets supplies where they are needed and keeps the suppliers safe.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Beer
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:10 AM

After these days of watching the magnitude of this catastrophe I tend to agree with Michael Harrison and Q that the U.S. should set up some form of puppet government. It may have had a status as a third world country but is worst that that now.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:07 PM

Sins full, your remarks about the UN Special Envoy to Haiti are odious. An excellent representative and fund-raiser.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:42 PM

At least then it will be out there for people to eat.

Today's news has a picture of a young teenage man with a machete running from a collapsed supermarket with a small box of what looks like cereal. The caption? Looters On The Loose.

Now, as I understand it, everyone has been advised to prepare to defend themselves and carry weapons. Even a Christian group on their way to help an orphanage they support are all armed. The young man in question hasn't eaten in three or four days. AND the supermarket is a shambles.
Do we really expect people who haven't eaten in days to sit and wait until someone gives them permission to salvage food before it rots in the humidity? Or wait until the next aftershock makes it impossible to get to the food?

Meantime, the UN Special Envoy to Haiti is campaigning for a senate seat in Massachusetts.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 01:35 PM

72 hours and still disorganized chaos. A tremendously complex problem.

The air force is trying to get the airport organized (only one long runway, little space for unloading).
The U. S. has unloaded some troops and aid workers in the port, but docking facilities and cranes have been destroyed. The small tsunami did not affect the land, but part of the port is under water.

Some supplies may get to the city later today. Roads largely blocked by rubble from collapsed buildings.
Rescue crews are working in Port-au-Prince, but no heavy equipment to shift debris. Many more will die as time runs out.

No food or water has yet reached other cities like Jacmal, also heavily damaged.

I hope the U. S. does set up a government, puppet or otherwise; control to prevent turmoil will be required for sometime to come.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 12:09 PM

What happens when you do that Sins, is people take more than they need, and leave nothing for others. They then sell it on at a profit, I have seen it happen, in Albania.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:27 AM

I thought the same thing, Anne. Given the poverty and lack of clean drinking water, I wondered why they even had warehouses full of food.
I think the problem is still logistics. The roads are blocked. There is no fuel. How do you get the food to the people. Although, I would have opened the doord and let anyone who showed up take a share.

It is no doubt an enormous undertaking and wrong to second guess the people trying to get a handle on it.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:24 AM

Well, Clinton may be doing that as well (and there is a lot at stake in that election), but he addressed the UN General Assembly yesterday, the Clinton Foundation has raised $2.6 million for Haitian relief (so far) and he (and GW) are involved with the president in a high-profile appeal. I hardly think that Haiti needs a suit there right now.

On a related note, I was upset this morning to read a comment at thesmokinggun.com that seem to say that Wyclif Jean's charity Yele is basically a money-maker for him - or at least that it has some shady expenses. Anyone hear anything to refute this?

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Rumncoke
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 11:21 AM

I heard - though I hardly believed it, that overnight (I think the third one after the earthquake) a charity warehouse had been looted of food, water and goods.

Wow - I wonder how bad things would have had to get before they handed those things out.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 10:54 AM

Unbelievable - Bill Clinton, the UN Special Envoy to Haiti is on the campaign trail in Massachusetts. Guess we know where his priorities lie.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM

Yes - helicopters.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/15/haiti.international.aid/

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:13 AM

Meantime people are still trapped in debris and screaming for help. Severe injuries can't be treated because doctors and supplies can't reach the injured. They will die of infections or lose limbs.

The airport is about to run out of fuel. Keep in mind it is not Kennedy Airport - it has no radar - and it was damaged in the quake.

I wonder if anyone is sending helicopters via ships?

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:07 AM

There are pictures in today's papers with clear military presence. People are desperate and shock has turned to anger. This will get very bad very fast. Logistics nightmare:

"But into the third day following the 7.0-magnitude quake, the global helping hand was slowed by a damaged seaport and an airport that turned away civilian aid planes for eight hours Thursday because of a lack of space and fuel. Aid workers have been blocked by debris on inadequate roads and by survivors gathered in the open out of fear of aftershocks and re-entering unstable buildings."

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 09:01 AM

No sign od military or police, in any of the news footage I've seen. WTF are they, can't all have perished?

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 08:57 AM

Aristide is making noises about going back to Haiti. I think Michael got it right - the US is about to set a puppet to restore order. He was ousted at least twice by military coups. Wonder if the poorest will get anything out of this? Stable government?

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 07:34 AM

Up to date satellite pictures of Port au Prince, here

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: mg
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:34 PM

And furthermore..I live in a place that is going to be wiped out in a tsunami with or without an earthquake.

Please feel free to come and rescue me. I need someone with a chainsaw and gallons of water and old mothy blankets more than I need money when the day comes. mg

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: mg
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:33 PM

The whole place is part of an island...surely there are other places boats can land with people even rowing out to help etc.

We can not discount the people. Trucks can't make it over buckled roads..some donkeys probably could. Some people carrying heavy packs could. That is why God made young men I think..for just such cases as this. Young women too of course.

You could set up water as close as you could get it and tell them that is their only source for now. Some could start walking and make it.

You need to get bodies out and those who can not assist in recovery out..to lessen disease problems if nothing else.

This place is not that far away from places that have water...does Dominican republic have water? I am sure they are trying to get some to the earthquake areas.

The Red Cross does wonderful work and it also needs to be supplemented by volunteers kept at a certain distance from the epicenter. The Red Cross can be obstructionist I think in these situations. People want to help. Some will get in the way but some will bring boatloads of water which I bet like Katrina they are being told to go back home and write a check. Organizations can not move that quickly to keep people from dying of thirst and/or having way more trauma than they need. Some individuals with certain skills and resources can do an awful lot..they do need to be kept behind a certain perimeter I agree..mg

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:15 PM

Logistical problems-
Port almost inoperable, problems cannot be straightened out overnight.
Airport small in handling capacity; traffic had to hold off while those already on the ground unloaded and took off.
Roads from airport to Port-au-Prince and worst damaged areas need repair; some are blocked or almost impassable.
Too many people will not get water or emergency attention quick enough; means of helping them have been outstripped. Estimates are 3 million affected.
Military personnel to keep order and help with supplies have been dispatched, but take time to set in place.
Local volunteers are active, but remember that many have dead or missing family members, and they are in shock.

Major tragedies,such as this and the one in Indonesia involve more problems than can be handled in time to save many injured.

Money to the Red Cross and similar agencies is the only support most of us can give.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: mg
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:12 PM

1. Send in General Honore.
2. Declare martial law.
3. Beg for supplies and water especially to come by water as well as what air can be arranged. Search for local water sources that can be purified, but water is a horrible problem there anyway.
4. Ask for local volunteers to collect bodies for burning. Photograph first. This should have been done yesterday. Bodies plus bad water to start with plus heat is a bad combination.
5. Set up camps within a few miles of the main disaster places so those not actively searching or disposing of bodies can be taken care of outside the main area of destruction.
6. Might have problems with voodoo considerations. Must be considerate of culture but disease prevention must be main priority to all faiths.
7. Get interpretors in there fast.
8. well, more later.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 02:21 PM

But, Donuel! They're in business for profit! We can't let their profits be threatened by such a massive payout, can we? It might cause the collapse of a valuable private industry, after all. We must keep our priorities straight when it comes to that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 02:18 PM

I don't think disasters are God's will. Insurance companies are happy to think so. You see they all have a contractual clause that says they don't have to pay you if the accident was God's will. The fancy term for this is Force Major. So officially for AIG and every other insurance company in the world, Haiti won't get a dime of insurance benefits since an earthquake is God's will.

AIG should pay up and shut up about Gods will.

We all paid AIG.   they should pay up

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:26 PM

I know. I find myself fighting the urge to wish a deforming cancer to eat away his nose and make his sins public.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:21 PM

But Sinsull, if it's their own damn fault, then good people, like Robertson's fans, have nothing to worry about.

I jest, of course.

No jest: that's what they want to think.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 11:15 AM

Incredible, isn't it? People dead and dying, children left as orphans, thousands,possibly millions, homeless, and that smarmy low life berates them for an imaginary transgression to his "faith".

I read the article twice before I realized it was true.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 09:46 AM

I thought Amergin was kidding, but no. Even Fox News ran the Robertson clip with explicit disgust.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:09 AM

Thwe 20 young women who were in Haiti to help build a church and school have been located and are OK. They are now offering what nursing services they can handle. They too are living on the streets, most too afraid to go inside anyway.

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:39 AM

Icelandic team was the second one , after the Us team who came there
to get the airfield runnin again , my brother is on that team
and my god , they said that its like Hell bodys all over ,
blood every where .....

they have already started now and I hope the others are coming soon
this task is HUGE .

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: Major Earthquake in Haiti - 12 January 2010
From: open mike
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:07 AM

Red cross interview (beware..it starts with an ad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Ak-Ze87Fc

estimates are that over 100,000 deaths may be caused by this.

one casualty was a complete hospital destroyed.

one million dollars have been received, and plans for 5 million
dollars to soon be dedicated to the project/rehab. etc.

this is said to be the worst disaster there in 100 - 200 years

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/12/haiti.earthquake/index.html

Subject: RE: Prayers and Good Thoughts for Haiti
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:26 AM

Well according to Pat Robertson it happened because they made a deal with the devil to over throw the French....