BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning

Subject: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:30 PM

I see that the German and French governments have both advised people not to use Internet Explorer - here's a piece from today's Guardian UK ignores fears over Internet Explorer despite French and German warnings

But over the weekend the German government advised citizens to stop using any version of Internet Explorer because of the possibility of attacks against it which could compromise the user's computer without their knowledge – and lead to the theft of data or incursions into corporate networks.

Today, the French government followed suit, issuing an advisory suggesting that all versions of Internet Explorer, which is included with Windows, are vulnerable to the attack that was used against Google, Adobe and an estimated 30 other western companies, by hackers originating in China.

I never use Internet Explorer myself, since Firefox is so much better - but I thought I'd pass the warning on anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:38 PM

yeah... I managed to sneak google chrome onto my work pc in spite of ECC removing all administrator rights on the council PCs.

I cannot access ECC intranet through chrome though and today, I got some kind of warning from ECC about using unapproved programs, when I was searching something (for work) on Chrome.

when it all comes crashing down... I shall laugh ... ha ha...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:47 PM

Did they get a fix for it yet? I am doing an MS update right now... 435.5 Mb!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:51 PM

I started having problems with Explorer and it was certainly infected with some sort of spyware, though none of my antivirus programmes could find and zap it...I've switched to Google Chrome, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:57 PM

I got an email today from someone that very seldom sends me emails and it was obviously not sent by her. I immediately did a virus scan.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:02 PM

These warning have been out for years, so I have been using Opera & Firefox for years...and 2-3 others. Chrome doesn't do enough yet to suit me, but I suppose it will. "SeaMonkey" is an offshoot of Firefox for those who want a 'complete suite' in one application.

If you really want a versatile browser, try "Opera Unite". It is 'different' than Firefox, but has SO many virtues. I see no value in making browsers an 'either/or' decision when both have different features.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:07 PM

I use Internet Explorer and haven't had any problems. In fact we have 4 machines and they are all fine and have been.

If you don't put enough security on your machines, you can expect what you get.

Stop posting unecessary warnings.

Grumble grumble grumble.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:08 PM

I suppose it might be good to have the options. IE is obviously gonna be a target as one of the most used.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: goatfell
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:10 PM

i use IE without problems

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:14 PM

I was having problems with Explorer and went in and changed some of the security options. Now it doesn't work at all.

I have never liked it but need it because I build websites and I have to see how they work with Explorer.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:21 PM

IE was slow and terribly annoying until I took AVG free out of my machine a few months ago. I use an different antivirus enterprise version through an agreement with my university, to be used on campus and off for people accessing university servers.

I use Firefox and Chrome a lot, but for things where I have to do page preview and print, firefox messes up the formatting where IE generally doesn't. And for security logon, I use IE.

I have SeaMonkey but never use it. Does anyone else?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:26 PM

I've always hated IE.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:32 PM

I occasionally use SeaMonkey, since it will accept 99% of the add-ons that Firefox does, but because it is mostly just Firefox with more features, (like newsgroups and RSS reader, which I prefer in stand-alone apps), I don't bother keeping it updated. It works fine. (But playing with different apps is a hobby for me.)

I guess I will play some more and see if it has any new advantages.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM

I asked my computer guru to kill IE in my computer and he said he couldn't do it because it is all integrated. I also have Firefox so I'll just ignore IE.
How do we know this is not just another internet scare thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:39 PM

You don`t trust the gubmint, KÉ

Arrrrgggghhhh... my question mark is messed up again!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:43 PM

I went to Mozilla... it says `Make the switch...`` (keyboard is messed up again... sorry). SwitchÉ

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:44 PM

yes,I got rid of it too and use firefox.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:45 PM

I am using Panda Cloud Antivirus now and it's brilliant.

New technology and the way to go for the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:50 PM

Using IE is like living near the California coast. Eventually, you WILL see fires, landslides or earthquakes. They won't hurt everyone every time, so you takes your chances.

The trouble with IE is that the virtues don't override the problems. It's just that so many programs and websites are designed to conform to IEs *non-standard* design that it would be difficult for many to move to another browser. Sort of like retrofitting buildings to be earthquake proof. People just throw the dice and hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:01 PM

Here is a general rundown of the browser situation.

IE has for YEARS tried to force designers to adhere to their 'standards', rather than make IE follow 'official' web standards. With Firefox grabbing so much of the pie, M$ is now 'beginning' to take notice, but they LIKE being in control, and conforming with standards would be giving up a measure of control.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

...retrofitting buildings to be earthquake proof...

Actually not as difficult as it sounds, but it needs a new thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

Generally speaking I view warnings about viruses and so forth on the net with suspicion. The difference this time is that it comes via The Guardian from the German and French governments.

And to give it a little bit extra credibility, we've evidently got the British Government saying there is nothing to worry about...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:39 PM

Its all a load of bollocks

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:04 PM

Don't you think that 'the German and French governments' is strangely vague?

From what I know of modern governments, it would take five years, several committees and much wampum before such an announcement would be made. And yet there's no word of any of that.

I'm not going to loose sleep over this.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:22 PM

I also use FF, and it has an add-on that emulates IE...that takes care of almost all of the sites that are IE-specific. I would love to eliminate IE entirely (and that is allegedly an option under Win7), but there is still the occasional site out there (like my bank's) that requires IE itself.

Huuum..."I'm from the government, I'm here to help you"?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:16 PM

The German and French warnings are a bit of a puzzle, since they imply that they are in response to recent malware attacks that the AV experts say attack only servers, and don't have (or haven't yet had) any observed presence in "user machines."

One might surmise that the German and French governments making the recommendation might just be too lazy to provide secure servers, so they hope to pass the burden of keeping them safe by passing the inconvenience to individual users(?).

There's no problem with finding other browsers to use; but especially if you're using WinXP or earlier it is true that IE is "intimately connected" to other parts of the OS, and shares too many utilities used by other things (esp Windows Explorer, which is prety handy) to be "removed" in any real sense. If you use Windows, you need to keep IE up to date even if you don't use it.

If there's anything they should be warning about, it would be Flash, Adobe PDF, and Java (popups and popovers), since these are currently the most notorious "malware vectors" in circulation. Flash and PDF updates in response to known vulnerabilities have been obscenely slow, and sites using some Java devices (invariably for annoying ads) are being found containing far too many "page faults" (coding errors) that are easy to exploit.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:28 PM

Thanks, John. I had heard at a computer store that it concerned only unprotected servers, but I had no other information.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:29 PM

Opera does not integrate properly with outlook (full outlook not IE) and regrettably there is nothing that will offer everything the IE will - although I would dearly like the ability to export individual emails as word files

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:23 PM

I use FF now and it is just great. Only one problem---when posting a blog to blogspot it will not post a list in a vertical way---only horizontal as opposed to IE which does it the vertical way I like. Perhaps I should change my format to horizontal or find out if there is an option on FF for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:31 PM

Haven't used IE in years except for mortgage payments, but I don't even do that now.

JohninKS, I do have WINXP, so, do I understand you that I need to update IE regardless? I wasn't sure if you were quoting or emphasizing.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Monique
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:55 PM

Microsoft Security Advisory

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

I have a load of documents and photos in IE and I have to go into IE to forward any of them. Don't know how to transfer them to FF.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 08:25 PM

Kendall, are you talking about IE or about Outlook or Outlook Express? If the latter, it would be Thunderbird rather than FF.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 08:53 PM

"Opera does not integrate properly with outlook (full outlook not IE) .."

?? Why would Opera want to integrate with Outlook? The whole point of getting away from Microsoft stuff is ...ummm... to not use EITHER Outlook or IE. (I used Outlook about 12 years ago...for a few weeks, then just didn't like either its interface or its attitude.)
Opera has a decent email client built in, though I almost never use it. If you are locked into IE/Outlook stuff thru work or something, I guess you just cope. If it's only 'what you're used to and what came with the computer', it 'might' pay to try the alternatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 09:15 PM

Australian Govt issues IE security warning The Federal Government has ramped up warnings about Microsoft's web browser, urging people to find an alternative to Internet Explorer or risk having their computers infiltrated and passwords stolen.

The Government says Microsoft has acknowledged all recent versions of the program are vulnerable, and is advising Australians to use alternative browsers.

It also says people should remember to regularly update their security software and change passwords frequently.

The French and German governments have also warned internet users in Europe to avoid Microsoft's popular web browser.

The concern follows revelations that hackers used a crack in Internet Explorer to mount an attack on Google and a number of other companies.

Senior lecturer in network engineering at Melbourne's RMIT University, Mark Gregory, says industry and governments are not prepared for the changing threats to cyberspace.

"The digital network is like the wild west. It is unregulated," he said.

"It is being used in ways that it wasn't meant to be used and we need to get organisations, companies and governments ... focused on taking action to make the digital network more secure for the general public."

Bill Caeli, from the Information Security Institute at the University of Queensland, says the Government and regulators must step in to protect internet users.

"How many builders have put smoke detectors in the new homes and houses? How many people have put fences around their pools to protect children?" he said.

"So safety and security has never, ever been market-driven. It's always been driven by regulatory [sic], by society itself, and that's the role of government."

The Government says Microsoft has not solved the security glitch and Australians should use alternative browsers.

Dr Gregory says it is good advice.

"There are other browsers that are available that appear to be being targeted less by the hackers and by these organisations than what Internet Explorer is being targeted," he said.

"I don't think there was any inference in what they said that Internet Explorer was any more deficient in terms of security than any of the other browsers, just that it was being targeted more.

"On that basis you'd have to argue that if security was a principal concern then using another browser would be wise until the incidence is reduced."

sandra Mac & Firefox user

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM

Kat -

If you try to remove IE in any of the early versions of Windows, it will merely set you back to the "default" version that came with that Windows version. I believe that with WinXP that was IE ver 5 or something thereabout.

With the WinXP default version, Windows update won't give you security patches, so you need to allow an update to a currently supported version.

Through WinXP, and for the most part Vista, IE can't be separated from Windows Explorer, and some Office programs appear to need "common files" that would have to disappear for a "removal" of IE. There are claims that the newest Win7 will allow removal; but it's not clear whether that means the files are removed or you just delete the shortcut and hide the .exe.

As long as you have a supported version of IE your Microsoft Updates will install security patches to IE.

Malware that might get on your computer (via IE or any other path) could be crafted to open IE and use it, even if you don't. Since you can't remove IE without disabling other things you probably want, you need to have it up to date, and should permit "critical" patches as they come along. If you don't use it, you probably want to disable macros and other "applets" and set IE for a high security level.

Microsoft products get attacked more frequently that others, simply because there are more of them out there and it's more profitable to attack the largest target. Microsoft patches on a regular schedule, every week, and IE vulnerabilities are patched as quickly as possible when they are found. Other browsers are not invulnerable, but are (so far) safe from the vulnerabilities that no one has bothered to find - yet.

Malware operators thus far have concentrated mostly on IE because they can get lots of hits quickly, but the opportunity disappears as people apply the patches. (Unfortunately a lot of people don't.) Other browsers issue patches much less frequently, and often don't tell you when one is needed. For some, patches come only when the version number gets rolled over.

Other browsers will get more hits, and will be seen as less safe, when the "survival time" for an exploit against 20% of the browsers (recent Firefox?) exceeds four times as long as the survival time for 80% of the browsers (recent IE?) - other factors being comparable.

It all depends on where the crackers can make the most buck$.

But YES, with WinXP you should update to at least IE6 now, and should keep it patched, even if you don't use it. Windows update should take care of it for you, but can't do a complet job of it unless you first upgrade to a currently fully supported version of IE.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:07 AM

Thanks, very much, John. I feel like an idiot. Just checked to see which version I have. It's 7. I have set the security settings on high and am checking for updates...oops, scratch that, it says No high-priority updates for your computer are available. To check for optional updates, return to our home page and click Custom.

I am off to bed, for now, but will look at it more tomorrow. Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:42 AM

If Thunderbird or whatever could open my old pst files so that I could retrieve old emails I'd give it a try - but I think opera still does not give you "send page" and "send link" if you want to email someone a webpage you are on the way that IE and Outlook do.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 10:04 PM

I use Seamonkey with Firefox in the background to listen to Pandora or AOL radio and Thunderbird for personal email. All non personal email resides in free Yahoo email accounts.

Free AVG antivirus checks my incoming personal email.

I use the free version of Malwarebytes antivirus. It even blocks access to suspected malware infecting website. It is the same as the paid version except you have to update manually.

The best things in life are free.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 10:23 AM

Internet explorer is the most dangerous thing in your house,
right after your automatic weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: PaulF
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 10:30 AM

They just released a patch I hear

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 11:45 AM

>>Internet explorer is the most dangerous thing in your house,
right after your automatic weapons.<<

ROTFLMAO what a load of cobblers. My wife is more dangerous. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 02:58 PM

" My wife is more dangerous. :-)"

Umm...can she be aimed?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 05:22 PM

Tamed maybe :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 01:35 PM

It will be a tragedy if too many people move over to Firefox- it's part of my security strategy! IE is targeted because most computers have it, not because it's uniquely vulnerable. Same with Windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 05:15 PM

One newsletter I've received says that Microsoft will release an "out of schedule" patch for the IE vulnerability begining at 18:00 GMT on 21 January 2010. I haven't looked yet for confirmation elsewhere, despite this source being a UK publisher, but the patch has been expected.

An update to the Security Bulletin about the vulnerability is also reported to have been released, for those who need, or want, more information about it; but the bulletin probably is not of too much interest to the majority of users.

Anyone getting automatic updates should expect to receive the patch within a fairly short time - assuming the accuracy of the news letter. (Scheduled patches come weekly, so Microsoft apparently can get to all of the few million user machines who get updates within less than a week?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 11:33 PM

After this thread came out and doing some other reading I went back to Firefox. No problem.

Question: How does one delete IE from one's system? In Add/Remove it doesn't give the option for the application itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 01:16 AM

Just got my update John

Subject: RE: BS: Don't use Internet Explorer - warning
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 04:43 AM

My laptop that runs only to be available for updates just got the patch.

The other two that are running have been busy, which might explain why it's a little slower getting to them. I haven't looked to see if it's downloaded/downloading.

Ebbie -

Look up above at 18 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM for previous comment on deletion of IE. Basically, you CAN'T remove it because it is a required part of, and is used by, other parts of the OS.

John